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... But The Thief Got Away.


Svarty.8019

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@"kash.9213" said:I guarantee others are getting away, but while not everyone immediately registers other class Elite icons,

That's a cute theory, but I think people "register" the Thief icon because it happens so frequently. Sure, other icons get away. Mesmers are slippery, Rangers had escapes up the wazoo and I remember even Holos/Engys being a rough catch if they had rocket boots on their bar.

But Mirages saw multiple nerfs to Jaunt and lost a dodge, Soulbeast lost the ability to swap pets in combat, thus losing the ability to swap from Smokescale to Owl, and Holos..well, nobody seems to play those much anymore, but anyways... Help me out, what did Thief lose again?

Also, and I'm asking for a friend, which Thief elite is stong for peeling out of a fight and escaping? Core, Daredevil or Deadeye? All the people I've asked this question to, so far, have simply replied: Yes.

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@"Svarty.8019" said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

I have an idea. Just make Thief and go out and test out that "never die" theory. We're so easily killed that we HAVE to run. Believe me i would rather stay and fight if my class had more sustain and actual dueling capability.. but nope.. we have to run to survive. And that's not fun at all. Not fun for our enemies and not fun for us either. When you see Thief run away you can calm yourself down and say "Okey i won that fight.." cuz it's almost true. He would've lost so he ran away like chicken. That's how stupidly weak this class is at staying in an actual fight. And someone saying "remove stealth" is basically like saying "remove aegis / blocks / invulns" from any other class. Stealth is our survival. And it's already nerfed anyway cuz u get revealed in WvW far too often. What more do u want? Remove stealth? Remove our mobility? And then what? Leave it as it is? If you want to remove those you gotta give us some different kind of survival kit.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"kash.9213" said:I guarantee others are getting away, but while not everyone immediately registers other class Elite icons,

That's a cute theory, but I think people "register" the Thief icon because it happens so frequently. Sure, other icons get away. Mesmers are slippery, Rangers had escapes up the wazoo and I remember even Holos/Engys being a rough catch if they had rocket boots on their bar.

But Mirages saw multiple nerfs to Jaunt and lost a dodge, Soulbeast lost the ability to swap pets in combat, thus losing the ability to swap from Smokescale to Owl, and Holos..well, nobody seems to play those much anymore, but anyways... Help me out, what did Thief lose again?

Also, and I'm asking for a friend, which Thief elite is stong for peeling out of a fight and escaping? Core, Daredevil or Deadeye? All the people I've asked this question to, so far, have simply replied: Yes.

If they build for it what do you expect, bring some pulls or something. There's always some thief who messes with a group or squad and usually one good pull gets them tagged by one or two more and they're done. You could just watch them do what they want though, that's always an option.

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@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:But Mirages saw multiple nerfs to Jaunt and lost a dodge, Soulbeast lost the ability to swap pets in combat, thus losing the ability to swap from Smokescale to Owl, and Holos..well, nobody seems to play those much anymore, but anyways... Help me out, what did Thief lose again?

Thieves saw a nerf to their overall damage and burst damage. So did everyone else, of course, but it definitely affects the thief significantly because the thief is all about burst and fast engage/disengage with rather poor sustain. This means far fewer builds get insta-deleted by D/P or Deadeye thieves, and several popular builds have become very effective soft counters to that particular strategy.

(Also the one-dodge Mirage thing is a crime and really shouldn't be treated as the basis for how to further balance other classes, imo. I like most of the WvW/PvP damage rebalance, but the "tradeoff" patch was very obviously a mistake.)

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@Dave.6819 said:

@"Svarty.8019" said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

I have an idea. Just make Thief and go out and test out that "never die" theory. We're so easily killed that we HAVE to run. Believe me i would rather stay and fight if my class had more sustain and actual dueling capability.. but nope.. we have to run to survive. And that's not fun at all. Not fun for our enemies and not fun for us either. When you see Thief run away you can calm yourself down and say "Okey i won that fight.." cuz it's almost true. He would've lost so he ran away like chicken. That's how stupidly weak this class is at staying in an actual fight. And someone saying "remove stealth" is basically like saying "remove aegis / blocks / invulns" from any other class. Stealth is our survival. And it's already nerfed anyway cuz u get revealed in WvW far too often. What more do u want? Remove stealth? Remove our mobility? And then what? Leave it as it is? If you want to remove those you gotta give us some different kind of survival kit.

Go PVE good survival there !!

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@ASP.8093 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:But Mirages saw multiple nerfs to Jaunt and lost a dodge, Soulbeast lost the ability to swap pets in combat, thus losing the ability to swap from Smokescale to Owl, and Holos..well, nobody seems to play those much anymore, but anyways... Help me out, what did Thief lose again?

Thieves saw a nerf to their overall damage and burst damage. So did everyone else, of course, but it definitely affects the thief significantly because the thief is all about burst and fast engage/disengage with rather poor sustain. This means far fewer builds get insta-deleted by D/P or Deadeye thieves, and several popular builds have become very effective soft counters to that particular strategy.

Yeah, I remember that nerf. Where I got hit for 15k on full toughness it's now 7-9k on full toughness and the thief tool kit is still untouched why I can't burst him down anymore because my burst went down for the same margin.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:In my experience it's not always rolling thief that gets you away - it's knowing your limits and knowing when to pull away from enemy (besides your build). Some thieves get too greedy or in the moment which tends to get them killed (and it's good to bait the ones that play this way). Depending on their build, if you don't get coordinated effort you may not be able to kill the smarter ones.

You're not wrong. However, I can tell you my mesmer running multiple teleport and stealth skills never had any trouble walking away from a fight. Meanwhile, my sword weaver is pretty much all-in on every engagement!

Yeah, same with every Necro build. Pretty much an all-in every engagement. I don't believe there's any class without any good mobility (okay, the Wurm, if you pre-cast it away from the battle). Necro's don't have an "Oh Crap, better run" skill.

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@cobbah.3102 said:

@"Svarty.8019" said:We've all got stories about battles we've had. The most memorable for me are the 10-ish people ones. You know, where it's not small enough to be ganky and not big enough to be zergy. They're the Goldilocks battles. The fun ones.

Sadly, there's a recurring theme that thwarts these stories. The Thief always gets away.

Whether it's our thief or the enemy thief. It makes a mockery of the game. How is anybody supposed to take combat in GW2 seriously when they know they can roll thief and never die?

I have an idea. Just make Thief and go out and test out that "never die" theory. We're so easily killed that we HAVE to run. Believe me i would rather stay and fight if my class had more sustain and actual dueling capability.. but nope.. we have to run to survive. And that's not fun at all. Not fun for our enemies and not fun for us either. When you see Thief run away you can calm yourself down and say "Okey i won that fight.." cuz it's almost true. He would've lost so he ran away like chicken. That's how stupidly weak this class is at staying in an actual fight. And someone saying "remove stealth" is basically like saying "remove aegis / blocks / invulns" from any other class. Stealth is our survival. And it's already nerfed anyway cuz u get revealed in WvW far too often. What more do u want? Remove stealth? Remove our mobility? And then what? Leave it as it is? If you want to remove those you gotta give us some different kind of survival kit.

Go PVE good survival there !!

Why should i feel forced to leave gamemodes that i enjoy? Doesn't make any sense. If i'd leave those gamemodes (wvw/pvp) i'd just leave the game.

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Thieves saw a nerf to their overall damage and burst damage. So did everyone else, of course, but it definitely affects the thief significantly because the thief is all about burst and fast engage/disengage with rather poor sustain.

This has to be a troll post...

its not poor sustain if you cant be hit and have so many tools to engage and disengage with nothing but small cooldowns againt everyone elses long cooldowns even if both get full hp back the thief always has the advantage.

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Thieves saw a nerf to their overall damage and burst damage. So did everyone else, of course, but it definitely affects the thief significantly because the thief is all about burst and fast engage/disengage with rather poor sustain.

This has to be a troll post...

its not poor sustain if you cant be hit and have so many tools to engage and disengage with nothing but small cooldowns againt everyone elses long cooldowns even if both get full hp back the thief always has the advantage.

Thieves can be hit. You should try to hit them.Thief cooldowns are shorter than everyone else? Or are you talking about Initiative which makes skill use more expensive nearly every update? Quit mashing your keyboard in panic and think about what cooldowns you're using and you might not be left with nothing to do.

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@misterman.1530 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:In my experience it's not always rolling thief that gets you away - it's knowing your limits and knowing when to pull away from enemy (besides your build). Some thieves get too greedy or in the moment which tends to get them killed (and it's good to bait the ones that play this way). Depending on their build, if you don't get coordinated effort you may not be able to kill the smarter ones.

You're not wrong. However, I can tell you my mesmer running multiple teleport and stealth skills never had any trouble walking away from a fight. Meanwhile, my sword weaver is pretty much all-in on every engagement!

Yeah, same with every Necro build. Pretty much an all-in every engagement. I don't believe there's any class without any good mobility (okay, the Wurm, if you pre-cast it away from the battle). Necro's don't have an "Oh kitten, better run" skill.

No they have a high dps oh.... extra hp button ontop of preplanned tele. All necro specs would need heavy sustain nerfs to receive more mobility.

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I'm really surprised nobody mentioned that thieves now have shadow portal skill, which doesn't show as skill effect like the mesmer's portal does and is pretty much invisible when placed on the ground. So one perma-stealth thief inside a keep/tower is almost a guarantee it will be able to port people inside and makes defending objectives impossible. Since now you can swap builds/equipment with one button nothing stops the thief from switching to pure tank build and be impossible to hunt down unless you bring 10+ people.

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@"rng.1024" said:There is a legendary video on youtube of a power herald (with his hammer) only chase and kill thieves trying to escape B)

Idk about "legendary" but I had some good times roaming on hammer Rev and thieves made excellent targets because they were glass and everyone hated them ;-)

Pretty much all my hammer Rev vids had thief kills and some are just lol worthy. Check them out for a nostalgic trip if you haven't already ;-)

We had options to deal with thieves, they all evaporated with all the nerfs the past year. Too much damage was removed. Too many skills made clunky and awkward. Rip this game's small-scale.

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@Justine.6351

I've already used up most my data for this month, barely have enough for browsing the forum :cry:

I feel the same way, there were alot of counters and things were good - way before daredevil nerfs started. I just think the general level of players was higher back then, because we still had lots from the core days.

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@rng.1024 said:@Justine.6351

I've already used up most my data for this month, barely have enough for browsing the forum :cry:

I feel the same way, there were alot of counters and things were good - way before daredevil nerfs started. I just think the general level of players was higher back then, because we still had lots from the core days.

Yeah nowadays it's a lot of little noobie roaming packs, the pver trying to get his daily veteran creature or the runaway master. Not worth anyones investment of time.

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@Justine.6351 said:

I've already used up most my data for this month, barely have enough for browsing the forum :cry:

I feel the same way, there were alot of counters and things were good - way before daredevil nerfs started. I just think the general level of players was higher back then, because we still had lots from the core days.

Yeah nowadays it's a lot of little noobie roaming packs, the pver trying to get his daily veteran creature or the runaway master. Not worth anyones investment of time.

Aye, the honor amongst roamers is long gone sadly

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:In my experience it's not always rolling thief that gets you away - it's knowing your limits and knowing when to pull away from enemy (besides your build). Some thieves get too greedy or in the moment which tends to get them killed (and it's good to bait the ones that play this way). Depending on their build, if you don't get coordinated effort you may not be able to kill the smarter ones.

You're not wrong. However, I can tell you my mesmer running multiple teleport and stealth skills never had any trouble walking away from a fight. Meanwhile, my sword weaver is pretty much all-in on every engagement!

Yeah, same with every Necro build. Pretty much an all-in every engagement. I don't believe there's any class without any good mobility (okay, the Wurm, if you pre-cast it away from the battle). Necro's don't have an "Oh kitten, better run" skill.

No they have a high dps oh.... extra hp button ontop of preplanned tele. All necro specs would need heavy sustain nerfs to receive more mobility.

So you think a Scourge has an "extra hp button" - whatever that is. You mean the "barriers"? The really, really weak barriers unless you are running a heavy healing build?

In any case, wasn't asking for more mobility - simply pointing out that, like Sword Weaver, necros are all in on close engagements.

And Scourges/Reapers in a WvW zerg wouldn't be running Wurm anyways. That would lose out on better skills.

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@misterman.1530 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:In my experience it's not always rolling thief that gets you away - it's knowing your limits and knowing when to pull away from enemy (besides your build). Some thieves get too greedy or in the moment which tends to get them killed (and it's good to bait the ones that play this way). Depending on their build, if you don't get coordinated effort you may not be able to kill the smarter ones.

You're not wrong. However, I can tell you my mesmer running multiple teleport and stealth skills never had any trouble walking away from a fight. Meanwhile, my sword weaver is pretty much all-in on every engagement!

Yeah, same with every Necro build. Pretty much an all-in every engagement. I don't believe there's any class without any good mobility (okay, the Wurm, if you pre-cast it away from the battle). Necro's don't have an "Oh kitten, better run" skill.

No they have a high dps oh.... extra hp button ontop of preplanned tele. All necro specs would need heavy sustain nerfs to receive more mobility.

So you think a Scourge has an "extra hp button" - whatever that is. You mean the "barriers"? The really, really weak barriers unless you are running a heavy healing build?

In any case, wasn't asking for more mobility - simply pointing out that, like Sword Weaver, necros are all in on close engagements.

And Scourges/Reapers in a WvW zerg wouldn't be running Wurm anyways. That would lose out on better skills.

Who is talking about zergs here...

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