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Are we now putting precursors in lootboxes Anet?


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Last time i checked this wasnt the chinese server and moves like that really do give the wrong impression to players. You said there wouldnt be any p2w so then why are you giving ppl the precursor to the best items through paid lootboxes?

Your ncsoft is showing...

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@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Is it different from buying Gems to exchange for Gold to buy exotics to throw in the Mystic Forge?Is having a Precursor or a Legendary winning the game?

For some ppl gettong a fully decked ou character is "winning the game" and the more external mechanics that interact with your wallet are included the more it can be considered p2w.

Plus it doubles down on gambling which is just shameful.

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I noticed that too and I'm not keen on the move. But it is only the gen 1 precursors which have been available on the Trading Post (and therefore purchasable with real money) since shortly after the game came out, so ultimately it's not much of a change. If someone wanted to just buy one with real money they've always had the option to buy gems, convert it to gold and buy them. (Or even to buy the finished legendary if they're willing to spend that much.)

I'm more concerned about the '54 other items' not shown in the list, and whether that includes any which are otherwise only available in-game. I know they're 'only' exotics and therefore don't fit the strict definition of pay-to-win, but in a game where cosmetics are a big part of the reward system and often the main (or only) incentive to do achievements and events that would be a worrying change. It fits more with what I've taken to calling 'pay to not play' but I think that's equally worrying for the long-term health of the game as it reduces the number of people active in maps and, for those players, reduces the incentive to play because...why bother if you've already got the rewards?

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As I said on reddit, I disagree with this move simply because BL Chests should be giving out QoL or cosmetic rewards - nothing that is actually something one uses to play the game.

But that said, a precursor is just a cost savings on crafting a legendary - it doesn't actually GIVE you a legendary. Additionally the precursor itself is just an exotic weapon, something you can buy off the TP at will.

But in principle, this isn't something we should support, any more than if they put gear up for sale on the Gem Store.

I appreciate the nuance that one can buy gems to sell for gold, then use that gold to buy a precursor - but a line must be drawn somewhere, and IMO it is that gem store and BL chests shouldn't be giving players items they can use to slay dragons, no matter how trivial an impact it might actually be. Once you open that door...

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Well.... this is why the government has to step in like they did in other country's.Obviously companies can't handle the freedom they are given. Shame on you A-Net.It would have been way better to put it directly into the Gem store instead encouraging gambling.

It's time to end this gambling nonsense across the gaming world.I still remember times when you bought a game and it was 100% developed and you could play it to your hearts desire.

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@"Randulf.7614" said:Wait... they put precursors in black lion chests now?

With an additional step, yes. The guaranteed item in the current chests is Gnashblade's Exotic Weapon Grab Bag, which gives 1 random exotic. According to the contents preview the possible drops include gen 1 precursors.

I assume the drop rate for precursors is absurdly low (probably about the same as the Mystic Forge) so anyone looking to buy one with gems is better off converting them to gold to get it directly, but the end result is still that buying black lion keys could give you a precursor.

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I spent one BL Key to open one chest, and got an Exotic greatsword of less than level 80. So salvage fodder. I expected them to be at least level 80's, and had a bit of interest since I have 3 new toons approaching level 80. I'll save the rest of my keys for future offerings.

[edit] To complete my thoughts, you still can get crap, so I don't mind that there is a chance of a precursor. Nothing there is game-breaking anyway.

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This BLC loot slot changes every few months. I think somewhere around winter they put PvP/WvW reward track tonics in it. Noone complains about that either, despite the fact that it let's you gain PvP / WvW exclusive skins and rewards like Gift of Battle without ever playing those modes.

There are no Sub Fees, so I guess they somehow have to make money via the gem store. Really, that's not an issue.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:So why is nobody mad when they put infusions in there? Same difference? I can't be mad about a 200g item being in there with a tiny chance.

Infusions are a cosmetic item, which is fine.

Precursors are not? They're just skins too. Legendaries still require them to put more than a thousand gold into crafting. I really can't see the issue there.

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@Blocki.4931 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:So why is nobody mad when they put infusions in there? Same difference? I can't be mad about a 200g item being in there with a tiny chance.

Infusions are a cosmetic item, which is fine.

Precursors are not? They're just skins too. Legendaries still require them to put more than a thousand gold into crafting. I really can't see the issue there.

Just read my post above, I'm not going to repeat myself.
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@Clyan.1593 said:This BLC loot slot changes every few months. I think somewhere around winter they put PvP/WvW reward track tonics in it. Noone complains about that either, despite the fact that it let's you gain PvP / WvW exclusive skins and rewards like Gift of Battle without ever playing those modes.

There are no Sub Fees, so I guess they somehow have to make money via the gem store. Really, that's not an issue.

Then sell cosmetics in the gemstore. It was their choice to not go with a diff monetisation.

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I don't see why a guaranteed, random exotic from a black lion chest that could possibly be a precursor for a legendary Gen 1 weapon (and not the actual legendary) is any more PTW/requires more outrage than being able to spend 100 bucks on gems, convert it to gold and outright buy a legendary.

Anger against lootboxes is fine when the anger's warranted, but this doesn't seem like the right place for it. Items worth double/triple the price of a gen 1 legendary have dropped from lootboxes for a long time.

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@Josiah.2967 said:Buying the legendary directly is still statistically cheaper on average. I don't see a problem.

Concur.

BLC also gives home instances nodes and permanent bank/tp/vendor contracts which gives way more advantage over people than just getting one single precursor boye.

And by everyone's logic here, you can p2w your precursors too. Invest 25usd on gems, trade to gold, buy precursors from TP, easy.

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It would be more cost effective to convert cash into gems and then gems into coins, buy as many rare unidentified equipment bags as you can afford, and then open the bags and repeatedly use the Mystic Forge on the results in an attempt to obtain the precursors.

This is more like "Pay to Lose".

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@Kurrilino.2706 said:Well.... this is why the government has to step in like they did in other country's.Obviously companies can't handle the freedom they are given. Shame on you A-Net.It would have been way better to put it directly into the Gem store instead encouraging gambling.

It's time to end this gambling nonsense across the gaming world.I still remember times when you bought a game and it was 100% developed and you could play it to your hearts desire.

No thanks. How about people take responsibility for themselves. And if you think for one instant the Gov stepping in will change practice you are naive or haven't thought this through. No company will just accept all the lost revenue everything will go up in price and different mechanics will be developed to milk revenue from players.And to refer to single player games with constantly developed MMOs is ridiculous as theres continued costs.

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While lootboxes are bad, I think this is far from egregious. There are any number of items available from a Black Lion Chest that you are able to sell and get a return far greater than the value of a precursor. You could buy over half a dozen precursors with a Hair Stylist Contract for example.

As far as player power - there is no power behind a precursor. You would be able to buy an exotic weapon for the sale price of any skin drop from the chest.

If we're gonna rag on lootboxes can we rag on the exclusive skins in them?

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@zealex.9410 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:This BLC loot slot changes every few months. I think somewhere around winter they put PvP/WvW reward track tonics in it. Noone complains about that either, despite the fact that it let's you gain PvP / WvW exclusive skins and rewards like Gift of Battle without ever playing those modes.

There are no Sub Fees, so I guess they somehow have to make money via the gem store. Really, that's not an issue.

Then sell cosmetics in the gemstore. It was their choice to not go with a diff monetisation.

Correct. And it's their choice to put in the BL chests whatever they want.

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....that is not pay-to-win, that's cosmetic.

Pay-to-win basically would be opening a black lion chest and getting a higher tier item above legendary with better stats. That does not happen.

I repeat: Cosmetics is not pay-to-win!

Now, loot boxes are a problem in and of themselves. It's a question of whether they should even be allowed in games in the first place. ANet's way, at the very least, deals only with cosmetics. As everyone says, other games abuse this system way worse.

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