Why did you make us keep the T1 Stormcaller weapons?

[Will.9785]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"Will.9785" said:There should be cheaper recipe that uses the tier 1 weapons. They went around for months telling people these would be needed to upgrade to tier 2. I spent a lot of gold and materials to craft them because of that, and now all of that gold and materials were basically flushed down the toilet and it was a complete waste of time. They shouldn't do that to people. Please give us a cheaper recipe.

Where did ArenaNet exactly say you would need the T1 to upgrade to T2...certainly not by putting a little description that says: "Stormcaller weapons are the legions' first attempt at harnessing the elements to battle Bangar's renegades. Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future. " All that says is to expect the weapons to be upgradable in the near future, now you can argue that including the word "upgrade" means you need the original to improve it, but that's not necessarily so, it's all in how you interpret the word upgrade. Had they said you need the T1 to upgrade to T2 in the near future then I can see the argument, the way it was actually written...I disagree it made it a complete waste of time. There was a purpose to it, to have you make the T1 weapon(s) before you could make the T2 whether you actually needed to use the T1 or not.

The fact that it says "expect THESE WEAPONS to be capable of upgrades" is argument enough. It explicitly says "these" - as in these ones right here. And it doesn't say "replaced", "superseded", or anything like that. It says upgrade-able... as in "these weapons" are upgrade-able. Seriously, don't try to argue semantics. It's pretty clear what it said.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

"Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future" heavily implied that the weapons themselves would be upgradeable, and then to literally remove that tease on the day of the next episode without an explanation was weird. Look, I disagree with the title of this post in that ANet certainly did not "make" anyone keep these T1 weapons. I just hope that they make the Charged T2 ones obtainable in a second way, by using the T1 as one of the ingredients.

[Locce.8405]

@Will.9785 said:

@Locce.8405 said:I am glad they reconsidered, and hopefully they stay away from having us hoard whole weapon sets for months to craft the next tier out of them. That's almost a whole bag slot gone just for skins and with that a pretty inefficient way of using said bag space.

I'm fine with them reconsidering for the next weapon set... but they cannot be doing this mid-stream. They screwed over a lot of people with this move.

How? I mean, sure, they blocked those bag slots for no good reason now, but if the devs hadn't changed it they still would have blocked the very same bag slots, just for a better reason. All the skins they unlocked are still unlocked. All the achievement points and the mastery point gained by crafting them are still on the books. All the upgraded skins they want to unlock they can still unlock.Nobody lost anything here that they would not have lost otherwise. I don't see how that could possibly equate to anyone getting screwed over. This is not even crying over spilt milk since the milk would have been spilt either way. This is just wanting a special thank you for spilling the milk.

[Will.9785]

@Locce.8405 said:

@Will.9785 said:

@Locce.8405 said:I am glad they reconsidered, and hopefully they stay away from having us hoard whole weapon sets for months to craft the next tier out of them. That's almost a whole bag slot gone just for skins and with that a pretty inefficient way of using said bag space.

I'm fine with them reconsidering for the next weapon set... but they cannot be doing this mid-stream. They screwed over a lot of people with this move.

How? I mean, sure, they blocked those bag slots for no good reason now, but if the devs hadn't changed it they still would have blocked the very same bag slots, just for a better reason. All the skins they unlocked are still unlocked. All the achievement points and the mastery point gained by crafting them are still on the books. All the upgraded skins they want to unlock they can still unlock.Nobody lost anything here that they would not have lost otherwise. I don't see how that could possibly equate to anyone getting screwed over. This is not even crying over spilt milk since the milk would have been spilt either way. This is just wanting a special thank you for spilling the milk.

The new skins make the old ones worthless. Seriously... why would i bother crafting the old ones when the new ones look better in every way? Had I known then what I know now (i.e. had they not misled me) I wouldn't have crafted them and I've still have my gold and materials.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

The stormcaller weaponset is the first complete set that I've crafted in the game. I did save them all because I thought I remembered reading about the Bjora Marches upgradable weapon set needing the first tier set and people who had salvaged them were upset that they didn't get a heads-up about it. So I can understand why people assumed that they needed to keep them for the Tier 2 set, I thought the same thing.

I'm not fussed about crafting them tho because I like having the Stormcaller title and I needed the achievement to get the No Quarter mastery done since I haven't done any Strike Missions other than the first one.

I'll hang on to them for now in case anything changes.

[Locce.8405]

@Will.9785 said:The new skins make the old ones worthless. Seriously... why would i bother crafting the old ones when the new ones look better in every way? Had I known then what I know now (i.e. had they not misled me) I wouldn't have crafted them and I've still have my gold and materials.

Firstly, that is a matter of personal taste. The new skins don't objectively look better, you subjectively just like them better. That's hardly an appropriate standard for making decisions affecting oodles of players.Secondly, then it follows logically that the issue is not the change but the previous model as a directly upgradable weapon set (and I would agree there, because that model is a bit garbage as I said earlier). If they had not changed it you still would have crafted the previous weapons. You would still be out of your gold and materials. Even if you don't care about the achievement and the mastery point at all and don't like the older skins at all the worst you could say is that you are missing out on a discount that players who have the same preferences but for some reason waited get to enjoy.That's simply not a rational reason for claiming that players get screwed over by this change mid-stream. You could make that case if you had evidence that the devs wanted to make this change all along and included the warning message as a trap for players like you because of... reasons, but I don't see that happening.

[Ashen.2907]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@"Will.9785" said:There should be cheaper recipe that uses the tier 1 weapons. They went around for months telling people these would be needed to upgrade to tier 2. I spent a lot of gold and materials to craft them because of that, and now all of that gold and materials were basically flushed down the toilet and it was a complete waste of time. They shouldn't do that to people. Please give us a cheaper recipe.

Where did ArenaNet exactly say you would need the T1 to upgrade to T2...certainly not by putting a little description that says: "Stormcaller weapons are the legions' first attempt at harnessing the elements to battle Bangar's renegades. Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future. " All that says is to expect the weapons to be upgradable in the near future, now you can argue that including the word "upgrade" means you need the original to improve it, but that's not necessarily so, it's all in how you interpret the word upgrade. Had they said you need the T1 to upgrade to T2 in the near future then I can see the argument, the way it was actually written...I disagree it made it a complete waste of time. There was a purpose to it, to have you make the T1 weapon(s) before you could make the T2 whether you actually needed to use the T1 or not.

There is a very significant difference between something like, "Expect upgrades of these weapons to exist in the near future," and, " Expect these weapons to be capable of upgrades in the near future. " The latter is an explicit statement that the existing weapons will be able to be upgraded.

[Ashen.2907]

@"Locce.8405" said:That's simply not a rational reason for claiming that players get screwed over by this change mid-stream. You could make that case if you had evidence that the devs wanted to make this change all along and included the warning message as a trap for players like you because of... reasons, but I don't see that happening.

I disagree with this part. Someone can be, "screwed over," even if the action causing this is unintentional.

[Junkpile.7439]

Well would be stupid idea force players keep some silly exotics in bag no idea how long. Exotic is always insta salvage.

[crepuscular.9047]

totally agree with OP, these should have been upgradable like boreal weapons; spent 20g and if salvaged it's just couple of silver is already not cool, now ~120g ?

... should have been ascended like Astral -> Stellar (~50g); I can bet not a lot of people have finished collecting this entire set

to those complaining about griffon cost 200g, here is what you should really be complaining because it'll take you years to finish Stormcaller + Charged Stormcaller

and make it so stupidly expensive to craft an item that will simply be thrown away, I have a really bad omen that we will be having a massive content drought very soon.

especially the fact that Icebrood Saga Material from reward tracks only have 1 more map currency left, and if we are getting 2 part map again, this could mean that the final chapter of Icebrood Saga will finish up in Q1 2021, then a massive content drought til Cantha, unless Anet is really gonna stretch it by having a 3rd LW season between expansions (Hot had 2 leading up to it, PoF had 1 leading up to it)

[Locce.8405]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Locce.8405" said:That's simply not a rational reason for claiming that players get screwed over by this change mid-stream. You

could

make that case if you had evidence that the devs wanted to make this change all along and included the warning message as a trap for players like you because of... reasons, but I don't see that happening.

I disagree with this part. Someone can be, "screwed over," even if the action causing this is unintentional.

Oh, sure, I agree that one could be screwed over even if the action is unintentional. But you would have to make that argument based on prerequisites that are not given here, mainly that the relevant actions were not your own. But if you really did not care about the achievement, the previous skins or the mastery point there was no good reason for spending that gold and those materials before seeing the full picture, i.e. this patch. Considering that the whole weapon set consumes more bank/bag space than the materials needed to craft it, the smart move would have been to only craft the weapons when you can directly consume them for the upgraded version. So, it's not even a case of hindsight being 20/20.

Now, if there was malice involved the picture would be a bit different. Compare it to a car accident: when you run a stop sign and collide with another person's car the fault is mainly yours, maybe to some degree on their part if they were speeding or something like that. But if you can show that the other party was actually just waiting for someone to run that stop sign in order to intentionally ram them, maybe for some sort of insurance scam, then your running the stop sign is off the table, although the caused damage would be the same.Same here: if the upgradability warning was added as a trap for players like you then you being a bit hasty about crafting a weapon set that you didn't actually want would be a lot less relevant. Then you could make the case that you were screwed over.

And don't get me wrong here: I can absolutely empathise with your situation. Kitten if I have not stupidly thrown money out the window in this game. :wink:It's just that I don't think it's rationally justifiable to claim you were screwed over, even if you naturally feel that way after spending that much on the weapon set. And yes, either creating alternative recipes that consume the old weapons or making the Stormcaller Cores in the old set salvagable would have been a good peace offer for those who have already crafted the other set. The line of argument for that is just not "You owe me because you screwed me over." but "Hey, I trusted that the plan would not change, and now this seems to cost me extra."

[Gildana.8529]

I am extremely disappointed about this issue as well as the extraordinary cost to make these new weapons that require BOTH Stormcores AND Amalgamated Draconic Gemstones! I read, and interpreted the same; as "THESE weapons will be upgradeable" like they just did in the previous Bjora Marches collection.

Here's a suggestion. How about if you got your inscription and the Stormcaller core back guaranteed from salvaging the base Stormcaller weapon? That way it isn't a total loss, but there is still a (minor) loss. That doesn't affect the extreme cost for the T2s, but it does mitigate it slightly.