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When do you think warrior will be considered one of the meta pick


felix.2386

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:I think in the coming month could we have a healbreaker meta

I agree, support warrior is much better then people give it credit. BUT.even if its good or meta warriors will still have right to be mad.When you create a warrior you wanna manly frontline that kitten people up, not a healer that gives might to people.

How about the wizard class being turned into a healbot, too?

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

it is funny how you think players haven't tried different buildslet me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.oh wait, nobody did.im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

@Avatar.3568 said:I think in the coming month could we have a healbreaker meta

healbreaker is miles below tempest.tempest can shut down lich with a single skill for the team.also aoe reflective aura, shock aura.and way more relatable res skills with stab cover and tornado.even healbrand is better.

healbreaker will work in ranked games, but in AT meta, healbreaker isnt even close. unless heavy nerf hammer goes to tempest and healbrand

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@felix.2386 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

it is funny how you think players haven't tried different buildslet me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.oh wait, im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

Let's all ignore the fact that Warrior was irrelevant to most for it's entire existence in PvP until PoF came out with the evade spam from Magebane to dance around at far.

Never was good for teamfights, always was good at 1v1, still good at 1v1 right now. It's unfortunate anything for warrior is a meme build because it can get kills but not carry an entire game. Who would have thought that to be good enough, you need to absolutely dominate at everything and whom dare have a counter to Warrior, this meta is not balanced if Warrior is not the best. Wish that actually made sense because you're gonna have to delete Guardian from the game if you want it to be balanced.

You're pretty funny though, thanks for reminding me that me and boa actually defined Herald Condition but not always have played. In fact, I probably have provided the most variety of content for Revenant in this game than anyone else who ever played it. You can keep whining about it, I don't even play it anymore, those nerfs like said barely affects me, only kills the possibility that people shouldn't have to only trait for Resistance KEK. Core Condition is still alive, so is Power. Herald Condition is still gonna run around with 3 traits for Resistance and still full heal from goofs to fully return conditions back at peak play, have fun with it.

I enjoy Warrior the way it is right now and I enjoy the fact that it can CC lock and down 7 professions out of 9. Core Power Revenant can still do all 9 given the effort and good plays. ✌️

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

it is funny how you think players haven't tried different buildslet me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.oh wait, im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

Let's all ignore the fact that Warrior was irrelevant to most for it's entire existence in PvP until PoF came out with the evade spam from Magebane to dance around at far.

Never was good for teamfights, always was good at 1v1, still good at 1v1 right now. It's unfortunate anything for warrior is a meme build because it can get kills but not carry an entire game. Who would have thought that to be good enough, you need to absolutely dominate at everything and whom dare have a counter to Warrior, this meta is not balanced if Warrior is not the best. Wish that actually made sense because you're gonna have to delete Guardian from the game if you want it to be balanced.

You're pretty funny though, thanks for reminding me that me and boa actually defined Herald Condition but not always have played. In fact, I probably have provided the most variety of content for Revenant in this game than anyone else who ever played it. You can keep whining about it, I don't even play it anymore, those nerfs like said barely affects me, only kills the possibility that people shouldn't have to only trait for Resistance KEK. Core Condition is still alive, so is Power. Herald Condition is still gonna run around with 3 traits for Resistance and still full heal from goofs to fully return conditions back at peak play, have fun with it.

I enjoy Warrior the way it is right now and I enjoy the fact that it can CC lock and down 7 professions out of 9. Core Power Revenant can still do all 9 given the effort and good plays.
✌️

thanks man, you are also pretty funny, how you call out other classes for not trying new things when yourself is a one trick pony who play one of the most braindead build on one of the least diverse class in the game that's also been favored by anet since it's release.

also funny how you talk like warrior kills 7 out of 9 classes, i'm sure that's why it hasn't appeared in any AT since 5 months ago. ✌️

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@felix.2386 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

it is funny how you think players haven't tried different buildslet me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.oh wait, im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

Let's all ignore the fact that Warrior was irrelevant to most for it's entire existence in PvP until PoF came out with the evade spam from Magebane to dance around at far.

Never was good for teamfights, always was good at 1v1, still good at 1v1 right now. It's unfortunate anything for warrior is a meme build because it can get kills but not carry an entire game. Who would have thought that to be good enough, you need to absolutely dominate at everything and whom dare have a counter to Warrior, this meta is not balanced if Warrior is not the best. Wish that actually made sense because you're gonna have to delete Guardian from the game if you want it to be balanced.

You're pretty funny though, thanks for reminding me that me and boa actually defined Herald Condition but not always have played. In fact, I probably have provided the most variety of content for Revenant in this game than anyone else who ever played it. You can keep whining about it, I don't even play it anymore, those nerfs like said barely affects me, only kills the possibility that people shouldn't have to only trait for Resistance KEK. Core Condition is still alive, so is Power. Herald Condition is still gonna run around with 3 traits for Resistance and still full heal from goofs to fully return conditions back at peak play, have fun with it.

I enjoy Warrior the way it is right now and I enjoy the fact that it can CC lock and down 7 professions out of 9. Core Power Revenant can still do all 9 given the effort and good plays.
✌️

thanks man, you are also pretty funny, how you call out other classes for not trying new things when yourself is a one trick pony who play one of the most braindead build on one of the least diverse class in the game that's also been favored by anet since it's release.

also funny how you talk like warrior kills 7 out of 9 classes, i'm sure that's why it hasn't appeared in any AT since 5 months ago.
✌️

You're talking like people care about being good in AT's in a MMO, like they'd want to play with something that takes effort for their win, like they actually have an identity.

I have defined for myself at least 8 builds on Revenant that I randomly alternate to and have 3 that I officially use effectively to enjoy ranked.

Call me a one trick pony when my stats say otherwise, I just don't care for Ranger Mesmer or Necromancer, not like I have ever really complained about them that much either. Revenant is pretty diverse and has it's flow barely anyone understands nor care about because complexity hurts muh efficency, sure as hell explains why there isn't much to look for lately since the lack of effort is apparent, we have to actually delete builds that can get farmed to appease the playerbase.

https://i.imgur.com/ef9rtTf.png

I have actual content to display as well since you're so stuck to the idea that I'm only a herald condition. I was for more than 2 years and have mixed up my builds long before it was meta for the past 5 months, even had a small go at the unoriginal Herald Power while it was at it's lowest performance when Scourge was apparently OP.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Warrior will find it's spot the moment people start exploring their options rather than stick with the same old.

it is funny how you think players haven't tried different buildslet me tell you the numbers of builds i tried on warrior since feb 25th greatly surpass all revenant builds that ever existed all together since HoT release.but it's ok, keep going with your superiority complex.

Anything that's not Jalis on Revenant gets destroyed by Core Warrior. Even Herald Power or Condition, they are sitting ducks for Warrior. It's statistically done by class design. You speak like Shiro was never nerfed, you aren't keeping up with the available options at all.

yes, that's totally why people picked 2 core warrior to counter 2 condi rev meta, like how they picked 2 condi rev to counter condi thief.oh wait, im sorry that you can't play one of the most braindead build in the game

Let's all ignore the fact that Warrior was irrelevant to most for it's entire existence in PvP until PoF came out with the evade spam from Magebane to dance around at far.

Never was good for teamfights, always was good at 1v1, still good at 1v1 right now. It's unfortunate anything for warrior is a meme build because it can get kills but not carry an entire game. Who would have thought that to be good enough, you need to absolutely dominate at everything and whom dare have a counter to Warrior, this meta is not balanced if Warrior is not the best. Wish that actually made sense because you're gonna have to delete Guardian from the game if you want it to be balanced.

You're pretty funny though, thanks for reminding me that me and boa actually defined Herald Condition but not always have played. In fact, I probably have provided the most variety of content for Revenant in this game than anyone else who ever played it. You can keep whining about it, I don't even play it anymore, those nerfs like said barely affects me, only kills the possibility that people shouldn't have to only trait for Resistance KEK. Core Condition is still alive, so is Power. Herald Condition is still gonna run around with 3 traits for Resistance and still full heal from goofs to fully return conditions back at peak play, have fun with it.

I enjoy Warrior the way it is right now and I enjoy the fact that it can CC lock and down 7 professions out of 9. Core Power Revenant can still do all 9 given the effort and good plays.
✌️

A 5v5 team based objective capture PvP mode should not have its meta built around having someone fulfill the role of "carrying an entire match". Thats pretty much why solo/duo queue only matchmaking is a grotesque abomination to have in such a thing, particularly because there are no options outside of that. That is an extremely counter productive system to have. Why do you think ESL yeeted itself away from GW2?

Also Warrior was not "irrelevant to most for its entire existence in PvP until PoF came out" I'm not sure where you were for HoT meta, and even Core meta, but...that is just wildly inaccurate. Lets also not forget that Revenant, primarily Herald, was a particularly overtuned class at the onset of HoT due to a variety of reasons. Chief among them is that Herald was part of the beginning of ANet overloading classes with boons, in fact Herald is probably why this happened beginning with HoT and it getting exponentially worse with time. In HoT it wasn't that bad, but PoF really exacerbated it exponentially and you're right, Spellbreaker was extremely oppressive because of Magebane and the Might generation from it and I have echoed that repeatedly on these forums and ingame.

However, your assertion that it was "irrelevant" until PoF is not accurate. Look below, skim through them if you don't want to watch the entire videos, thats fine, but you'll see Warrior was used even in ESL. There are loads of these videos, and sure it isn't present in all of them, neither is Ranger or some other classes but they still had presence and were still relevant.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:I think in the coming month could we have a healbreaker meta

I agree, support warrior is much better then people give it credit. BUT.even if its good or meta warriors will still have right to be mad.When you create a warrior you wanna manly frontline that kitten people up, not a healer that gives might to people.

How about the wizard class being turned into a healbot, too?

same thing really.If the class doesnt have a meta build that works on the principle of the class then it has failed and it needs to be changed in a way that it will.Imagine the world where the only meta thief build is some sort of bunker that stacks weakness, healing and siphons to survive.Thief players will have all the right to whine and bitch about it. They didnt make thief to bunker but to be mobile and to be offensive.

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@Yasai.3549 said:Warrior will only be meta once Land Spear becomes a thing apparently.

Don't get me wrong, I HATE the idea of Land Spear, but I'm willing to bet that at least 30% of Warrior mains are secretly still hoping for Land Spear to be a thing.

you are not wrong, spears have some sick skins

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@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison,
projectile vomit
boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as
the
issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

Now I am
all
for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and
unfortunately
PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a
weekly
devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I
highly
doubt that they don't have
something
to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much
bi-weekly
at minimum.

You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison,
projectile vomit
boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as
the
issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

Now I am
all
for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and
unfortunately
PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a
weekly
devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I
highly
doubt that they don't have
something
to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much
bi-weekly
at minimum.

You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

wrong,guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

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@felix.2386 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison,
projectile vomit
boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as
the
issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

Now I am
all
for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and
unfortunately
PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a
weekly
devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I
highly
doubt that they don't have
something
to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much
bi-weekly
at minimum.

You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

wrong,guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison,
projectile vomit
boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as
the
issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

Now I am
all
for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and
unfortunately
PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a
weekly
devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I
highly
doubt that they don't have
something
to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much
bi-weekly
at minimum.

You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

wrong,guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

nah, symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

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@felix.2386 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison,
projectile vomit
boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as
the
issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

Now I am
all
for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and
unfortunately
PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a
weekly
devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I
highly
doubt that they don't have
something
to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much
bi-weekly
at minimum.

You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

wrong,guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

nah, symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

Well I see no proof of that at all. Firebrand was strong sure and now it’s not nearly as strong so players see more reason than ever to play core symbols or dh symbols and it’s good but not worth nerfing because it has natural weaknesses

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison,
projectile vomit
boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as
the
issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

Now I am
all
for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and
unfortunately
PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a
weekly
devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I
highly
doubt that they don't have
something
to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much
bi-weekly
at minimum.

You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

wrong,guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

nah, symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

Well I see no proof of that at all. Firebrand was strong sure and now it’s not nearly as strong so players see more reason than ever to play core symbols or dh symbols and it’s good but not worth nerfing because it has natural weaknesses

ok ok no need to talk it all loud, we know you like to spam AoEs. but it's toxic.i'm talking mechanic not how strong it currently is, but ok.

there are literally thousands of threads talking about how AoE spamming is bad, go read some

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@felix.2386 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Maybe after the xpac but until then I have zero confidence in their ability to recognize problems and deal with them competently. Expect meaningless buffs in the meantime.

CMC already said in a stream with Teapot and Angeels, when asked "is there a build in PvP that you consider to be the power level that you'd like to see across the entire game?" and he said that "warrior isn't necessarily the gold standard but it feels pretty good." Which means, if anything, other classes need to be nerfed and Warrior really only needs adjustments (Buffs or Nerfs)

We know that, warrior has been "feeling good" since 2012, warrior has never been underpowered, but either overpowered (quickly nerfed) or standard (underpowered but not buffing just nerfing everybody else)

and we also know that, because they have been nerfing everything FOR 5 MONTHS already yet warrior is still trash..

that's the point of the thread tbh, how long it takes for anet to nerf everything to warrior level standard, so that warrior can finally has a play with 5 months already passed.remember that FB still trashes warrior, yet this isnt even FB's meta yet..there's still many meta to come before finally reaching so called "warrior's standard"

I understand the frustration, I'm right there with you, Warrior might "feel good" for the moment but that gets overrided by the overtuned things still going on right now with classes like FB and Holo and otherwise. I've said it before in other threads, its an issue of boon accessibility. Those classes, by comparison,
projectile vomit
boons onto themselves, and often others, and that is practically the entire reason why they are where they are. Warrior does not have that, neither do some other classes/specs, and because of that it gets pushed out. Boons need to be viewed as
the
issue on these classes and they need to look at it from the perspective of bringing that boon accessibility down.

Now I am
all
for criticizing ANet for the slow cadence, and the patches not really having much of an impact in terms of balance, the thing is that any sort of change or rework to skills or traits needs to be forwarded to the skills team and
unfortunately
PvE is taken heavily into consideration for any of those kinds of changes. So for the most part its not entirely in CMCs hands, which is precisely why the passive traits haven't been reworked yet.

This stuff is why they need to have those on the PvP balance team and the skills team, even the content teams, do a
weekly
devstream and have these kinds of Q&A/State of the Game type discussions. I
highly
doubt that they don't have
something
to talk about on a weekly basis, or at least an update to something. If weekly is too much
bi-weekly
at minimum.

You know, the reason guardian has aegis+protection is because it doesn't have 19k base health and endure-pain, shield block, evades, etc etc right? You can't complain that a class that is specifically designed to be statistically weak, but instead relies on boons...... relies on boons. Similarly Ele and Engi are designed with boons in mind.

The current issue with guardian/FB is symbols. Nobody likes them, either those playing with them or against them, and fortunately CMC appears to be aware of this issue. Guardian boon generation is actually pretty average compared to the likes of holo/scrapper, ranger/soulbeast, rev/herald. Go and see which one can maintain higher uptimes on protection, stability, vigor, or generate higher stacks of might. I dare you. Boons got hit very very hard in february, they really aren't the issue anymore. FB elite mantra provides 1s stability.... on 45s cooldown. Wauw such boon-vomit.

As for warrior, it really would only take another shave to holo, a symbol rework, and a shave to rev evade/block-chaining, and it would be perfectly viable. I can totally see condi-zerker coming back and being a thing, especially now mallyx got trimmed.

The issue is symbols because no one likes them? Every guard I knows has heard about cmc wanting to remove them and thinks that’s a terrible idea and no one I know complains about playing against symbol guards, in fact everyone I know thinks it’s balanced and somewhat interesting...

wrong,guardian spamming aoe has always been problematic, just less so now as guardian is outshined by tempest.regardless how strong tempest is, i'm just glad that it pushed FB out of the meta

Spamming aoe is not the same thing as symbols being faulty and for most of the time it was a support spec with the actual symbol firebrand being good but more of a 1v1 team fight hybrid meanwhile all the other guard symbol builds in the entire history of gw2 are mostly 1v1 builds and atm guardian is mostly a 1v1 spec like that. It has nothing to do with symbols and shows absolutely 0 problems with symbols themselves and like I said these specs are good at what they do, but aren’t really a problem balance wise

nah, symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

Well I see no proof of that at all. Firebrand was strong sure and now it’s not nearly as strong so players see more reason than ever to play core symbols or dh symbols and it’s good but not worth nerfing because it has natural weaknesses

ok ok no need to talk it all loud, we know you like to spam AoEs. but it's toxic.i'm talking mechanic not how strong it currently is, but ok.

there are literally thousands of threads talking about how AoE spamming is bad, go read some

I main thief ranger and power reaper I don’t even play Aoe specs. I gave you a factual answer based off opinions of guard mains and many many interactions of them and other players including myself and 1v1 sessions and also what I see from pmuch every person that plays guard in ranked on NA in high mmr. If I was wrong there should be a reason and I don’t see any at all nor any very substantial thread on the subject that sways the opinions of many ppl

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@felix.2386 said:symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

Don't you see the issue?Symbol
Firebrand
is the one people complain about.It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

Do you realize what that means?
Firebrand
is at fault,
not Symbols.

symbol core guard is just as toxic, have you not played the side node symbol core guard build? it's braindead and will carry bad players, just it will never be meta because FB is better.

and ofc, by AoE i don't literally just mean symbol, FB spam just as much AoE from tomes, that's why fb is worse, doesn't mean symbol is any better by it'self

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@felix.2386 said:

@felix.2386 said:symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

Don't you see the issue?Symbol
Firebrand
is the one people complain about.It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

Do you realize what that means?
Firebrand
is at fault,
not Symbols.

symbol core guard is just as toxic, have you not played the side node symbol core guard build? it's braindead and will carry bad players, just it will never be meta because FB is better.

and ofc, by AoE i don't literally just mean symbol, FB spam just as much AoE from tomes, that's why fb is worse, doesn't mean symbol is any better by it'self

I would say at that point the additional AoE from Firebrand is what makes it so oppressive, as opposed to Symbols themselves being oppressive. Not to say that they aren't strong, but I don't think symbols are what makes Firebrand "too much", its more the combination of the symbols + other AoE.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@felix.2386 said:symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

Don't you see the issue?Symbol
Firebrand
is the one people complain about.It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

Do you realize what that means?
Firebrand
is at fault,
not Symbols.

No symbols in general are an issue, axe symbol is just the most obnoxious one to deal with and FB only.

Symbol builds are kind of why holo sidenoder is meta. Grenade pressure are one of the few ways that you can deal with it.

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@felix.2386 said:

@felix.2386 said:symbolbrand has always been toxic mechanic wise.

Don't you see the issue?Symbol
Firebrand
is the one people complain about.It's not Symbol Core Guardian or Symbol Dragon Hunter.

Do you realize what that means?
Firebrand
is at fault,
not Symbols.

symbol core guard is just as toxic, have you not played the side node symbol core guard build? it's braindead and will carry bad players, just it will never be meta because FB is better.

and ofc, by AoE i don't literally just mean symbol, FB spam just as much AoE from tomes, that's why fb is worse, doesn't mean symbol is any better by it'self

The symbol core guard type of build isn’t really obnoxious imo. It’s just another counter play in the 1v1 realm. It can counter things weak to aoe like ranger and does it really well, but if the opponent doesn’t stand in your symbols then it becomes useless and like wise it’s also technically very squish outside of its symbols, so to actually play well you need to know kiting very well and how much dps is in the match up.I’ll agree it’s ez sure as you just lay symbols, but it’s one of those things-like say necromancer, where game knowledge is so incredibly important that the new player can be countered or out rotated by anyone with a brain. So it doesn’t really carry bad players just counter bad play while being fairly simple

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