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*Ep4 Spoiler* That anticlimatic assassination


Wolfb.7025

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Warning, Episode 5 spoilers ahead

After playing this new episode it makes me wonder, is this easy to assassinate targets in Tyria? you can pretty much be a deadeye/pick a sniper rifle and kill anyone you desire and still get away with it as long as you keep yourself stealthed. This assassination was very anticlimatic in that way, any other character in GW2 died in specific and tyria-realistic ways like being captured/cornered, or taken by surprise. but just being killed by a sniper shot while there are hundred of deadeyes roaming around and precisely no casualties reported from them, how come ryland, from all people, suddendly had the bright idea of "what if we use a sniper to kill this person".

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It was only possible because he had access to Mist Portals. It something that only two beings have been capable of, Kralkatorrik and Jormag. There's various other limited travel to the Mists through the story but its extremely restricted.

Its been noted since the beginning of the game this is the problem with the Svanir/Jormag (Norn Personal Story).

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@"Wolfb.7025" said:This assassination was very anticlimatic in that way, any other character in GW2 died in specific and tyria-realistic ways like being captured/cornered, or taken by surprise.

Are you saying being sniped isn't being taken by surprise?

Anyways, this is one of those "mechanics versus lore" issues. The game would not be fun if any NPC could simply one-shot the PC at any time just because they happen to have a gun weapon. I mean, read through Zafirah's Requiem short story - she does exactly what Ryland does, what you rather mock in this post. She one-shot targets from afar by putting a bullet through their head.

Which is very realistic, by the way. Very few people can survive a fucking bullet through their gray matter.

I also highly doubt that there's "precisely no casualties reported" from Dominion Snipers.

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The sniping wasn't the cringy part, it's that they managed to get that many frost legion ans svanir inside the "super secret" Ash Legion camp without anyone raising an alarm. Had Smodur been sniped on the field of battle I would have seen it as more believable.

Unrelated side note: Every Imperator of the Charr will be female by the end of the Icebrood saga. If I was Effram I'd feel a little nervous. (Kidding aside, he's a brand new character and has had no actual opinion of his own other than following the other's lead. He'd better not get ambitious or show any initiative though...)

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@"Harak.8397" said:The sniping wasn't the cringy part, it's that they managed to get that many frost legion ans svanir inside the "super secret" Ash Legion camp without anyone raising an alarm.You must have missed that the group was surrounded by portals which brought the icebrood. It's not like there was a small army being all stealthy sneaking in. They likely only had one or two shamans sneak in to open the portals, then the forces going through the portals raised hell.

Unrelated side note: Every Imperator of the Charr will be female by the end of the Icebrood saga. If I was Effram I'd feel a little nervous. (Kidding aside, he's a brand new character and has had no actual opinion of his own other than following the other's lead. He'd better not get ambitious or show any initiative though...)Efram showed plenty of opinion when he butted heads with Smodur in Episode 3, or when he professed worry over how the Flame's being treated in the prologue.

That said, I doubt Crecia will be the new Blood Imperator. She's originally Flame Legion, and assuming ANet didn't forget, Imperators have to be descended from the original legion founder. So by all rights, Crecia is void by right of bloodline, if not questionable origins. In theory she might be eligible for Flame Legion Imperator, but her ties are to Blood, not Flame.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

You must have missed that the group was surrounded by portals which brought the icebrood. It's not like there was a small army being all stealthy sneaking in. They likely only had one or two shamans sneak in to open the portals, then the forces going through the portals raised hell.

That said, I doubt Crecia will be the new Blood Imperator. She's originally Flame Legion, and assuming ANet didn't forget, Imperators have to be descended from the original legion founder. So by all rights, Crecia is void by right of bloodline, if not questionable origins. In theory she might be eligible for Flame Legion Imperator, but her ties are to Blood, not Flame.

I must have missed it, I think I had my camera aimed down at the table when it happened. Good point.

As for Crecia, I doubt that will come into play. Unless Bangar had cubs or brothers/cousins to be introduced real soon... not to mention that when considering Smodur's successor, the gang mentionned ( I forgot her name) as being a trusted aide, not blood relation. Paraphrasing though, I don't remember the exact wording.

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A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

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@Norentic.4762 said:A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

Ryland came out of an icebrood portal, sniped, and then they spawned more portals to attack from.

Do remember, Ash has defectors too.

edit: There are two key parts of dialogue that is important to this topic.a: Smodur outright states all the Imperators studied each others tactics. Malice confirms this and states that Bangar knows every tactic Smodur typically uses.B: Malice or Crecia states they had been making a ton of noise up there with the Sabotage acts, and that a counter strike was bound to happen eventually.

Anet does pretty good with the fact that not everybody gets a heroic death, an amazing last stand. Sometimes you get stabbed in the back or shot in the middle of a speech.

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@"Norentic.4762" said:A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

To be fair its not exactly like he was that far away he prob could have shot him in the head with a pistol form that distance and got the same result. So im not sure why you have to say sniping must be easy. He is a warrior and Warriors do have skill called kill shot which by all means way back in the times of core days killed other players all the time if they didnt dodge it. There is no reason to suggest he would have proper rifle skills in the first place.

As far as Malice and the others they did say that they should have had the place more prepped or something which implies they took a risk rushing things rather than making them secure. They also likely didnt expect someone like Ryland to make a move like that which is likely the only reason it probably could have worked in the first place.

To be honest I'm a fan of the charr and while his death did bother many other fans it hardly bothered me considering how he acted the episode before. I also never played the iron legion personal story more than once so to me Smodur was not all that 'Great" or "Likable" to me. I know he pops up in some other points before and after hot and during PoF etc but still he is not this amazing character that everyone seems to go on about to me. I saw his death or some kind of punishment coming at a future date the moment he killed Cinder in the previous episode. My bet was going to be that him and Efram throw hands or that Ryland gets him back.. looks like Ryland got him back lol.

Some people also pointed out that from a technical stand point it would have been strategically better for Ryland to shoot any other person at that table other than Smodur which is likely true but then it really would have just been a random death with no effect that really triggered that cause. At we know that Smodur was the cause of Rylands effective actions in that moment which does make sense to me.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Norentic.4762" said:A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

To be fair its not exactly like he was that far away he prob could have shot him in the head with a pistol form that distance and got the same result. So im not sure why you have to say sniping must be easy. He is a warrior and Warriors do have skill called kill shot which by all means way back in the times of core days killed other players all the time if they didnt dodge it. There is no reason to suggest he would have proper rifle skills in the first place.

As far as Malice and the others they did say that they should have had the place more prepped or something which implies they took a risk rushing things rather than making them secure. They also likely didnt expect someone like Ryland to make a move like that which is likely the only reason it probably could have worked in the first place.

To be honest I'm a fan of the charr and while his death did bother many other fans it hardly bothered me considering how he acted the episode before. I also never played the iron legion personal story more than once so to me Smodur was not all that 'Great" or "Likable" to me. I know he pops up in some other points before and after hot and during PoF etc but still he is not this amazing character that everyone seems to go on about to me. I saw his death or some kind of punishment coming at a future date the moment he killed Cinder in the previous episode. My bet was going to be that him and Efram throw hands or that Ryland gets him back.. looks like Ryland got him back lol.

Some people also pointed out that from a technical stand point it would have been strategically better for Ryland to shoot any other person at that table other than Smodur which is likely true but then it really would have just been a random death with no effect that really triggered that cause. At we know that Smodur was the cause of Rylands effective actions in that moment which does make sense to me.

Killing anybody but Smodur wouldn't have made sense, frankly.

A: Smodur killed the last person in Ryland's warband. His last "family" member.B: Smodur is the Iron Imperator, and Iron is the bulk of the United Legion's firepower. Killing him could throw Iron into chaos possibly.C: Bangar knows Smodur would be the best person to take down his defenses with Artillery commands. Killing Smodur weakens the enemy because a strong leader is removed.

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@Kalavier.1097 said:

@"Norentic.4762" said:A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

To be fair its not exactly like he was that far away he prob could have shot him in the head with a pistol form that distance and got the same result. So im not sure why you have to say sniping must be easy. He is a warrior and Warriors do have skill called kill shot which by all means way back in the times of core days killed other players all the time if they didnt dodge it. There is no reason to suggest he would have proper rifle skills in the first place.

As far as Malice and the others they did say that they should have had the place more prepped or something which implies they took a risk rushing things rather than making them secure. They also likely didnt expect someone like Ryland to make a move like that which is likely the only reason it probably could have worked in the first place.

To be honest I'm a fan of the charr and while his death did bother many other fans it hardly bothered me considering how he acted the episode before. I also never played the iron legion personal story more than once so to me Smodur was not all that 'Great" or "Likable" to me. I know he pops up in some other points before and after hot and during PoF etc but still he is not this amazing character that everyone seems to go on about to me. I saw his death or some kind of punishment coming at a future date the moment he killed Cinder in the previous episode. My bet was going to be that him and Efram throw hands or that Ryland gets him back.. looks like Ryland got him back lol.

Some people also pointed out that from a technical stand point it would have been strategically better for Ryland to shoot any other person at that table other than Smodur which is likely true but then it really would have just been a random death with no effect that really triggered that cause. At we know that Smodur was the cause of Rylands effective actions in that moment which does make sense to me.

Killing anybody but Smodur wouldn't have made sense, frankly.

A: Smodur killed the last person in Ryland's warband. His last "family" member.B: Smodur is the Iron Imperator, and Iron is the bulk of the United Legion's firepower. Killing him could throw Iron into chaos possibly.C: Bangar knows Smodur would be the best person to take down his defenses with Artillery commands. Killing Smodur weakens the enemy because a strong leader is removed.

It depends on how you look at it I guess.Technically speaking though lets assume he had shot someone else.Smodur rushes in blindly without any conrtrol and fails the assault because bangar knows his plans and methods like the back of his hand.

From a technical stand point if ryland had shot someone else it would have likely limited alternative options that could have been taken aside form the straight forward assault for example. Thats how im looking at it.

But in terms of having a reason too shoot someone it does make sense that Ryland would shoot Smodur without question.

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@"Norentic.4762" said:A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

I would hardly call Smodur a "great character". In both the personal story and Season 2, he had very little interaction and screentime, and what little interaction there was, was ultimately a 1-dimensional stereotypical military officer personality.

And more in the whole story than Eir, really?

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Kalavier.1097" said:Killing anybody but Smodur wouldn't have made sense, frankly.

A: Smodur killed the last person in Ryland's warband. His last "family" member.B: Smodur is the Iron Imperator, and Iron is the bulk of the United Legion's firepower. Killing him could throw Iron into chaos possibly.C: Bangar knows Smodur would be the best person to take down his defenses with Artillery commands. Killing Smodur weakens the enemy because a strong leader is removed.

It depends on how you look at it I guess.Technically speaking though lets assume he had shot someone else.Smodur rushes in blindly without any conrtrol and fails the assault because bangar knows his plans and methods like the back of his hand.

From a technical stand point if ryland had shot someone else it would have likely limited alternative options that could have been taken aside form the straight forward assault for example. Thats how im looking at it.

But in terms of having a reason too shoot someone it does make sense that Ryland would shoot Smodur without question.

It's fairly clear that the ambush was intended to kill all imperators. Ryland likely went in with the sniper rifle to ensure he got his personal revenge against Smodur. That said, I wouldn't be surprised that if it turned out Bangar had given orders to Ryland to assassinate a specific imperator, it would have been Efram. For three reasons:

  1. He's the newest imperator, meaning he's the one who's tactics are most unknown to Bangar.
  2. He leads Flame Legion, which uses fire magic that would prove the biggest or second biggest weapon against the Frost Legion.
  3. He's the reason Flame Legion has stuck around with the allied High Legions' actions, and his death would no doubt mean more defectors in Flame to Dominion, or just leaving the battlefield, far more so than killing Malice or Smodur.

And of course, I can't imagine Bangar believing he could convince Ryland to assassinate his own dame, who would probably be the second biggest threat to Bangar among the allied Legions' leadership..

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Norentic.4762" said:A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

I would hardly call Smodur a "great character". In both the personal story and Season 2, he had very little interaction and screentime, and what little interaction there was, was ultimately a 1-dimensional stereotypical military officer personality.

And more in the whole story than Eir, really?

I would call Smodur a nuanced enough character. While much of his story is explained by NPCs, ambient dialogue (with even some hints in Ghosts of Ascalon novel albeit never involved directly), and out of game dev interviews like Scott McGough's illuminated TowerTalk podcast episode (where the whole concept of Smodur playing a more complex political game than it initially seems comes from), we do also get some glimpses of his personality in personal story and Season 2 dialogues. Some examples:

Smodur the Unflinching: The Black Citadel owes you. Your sire might've redeemed himself on his own, but the High Legions triumphed because of you. (Source)

What's notable about the above quote is that Smodur is seen praising our potential sire Clement Forktail who had originally defected to the Flame Legion with his warband until he had become an atoner and defected back to the High Legions to warn them about Shaman Mergath Flarekin's impending attack.

While Smodur initially considered Clement a traitor (and based on "No Quarter", should've executed this Flame Legion joiner without issue), the imperator actually acknowledged Clement's contribution to the Legions' victory at the Black Citadel because Clement's intel had made Smodur aware of the impending attack and allowed him to prepare for it rather than let the Flame shaman's forces overrun the tribunes. This shows that Smodur, while despising traitors, wasn't above pardoning them if they proved their worth to him.

Smodur: We may be here on a fool's errand, but it's worth a try. Rytlock has done the impossible before. These ghosts have plagued my people for too long. I spend every day looking for ways to end it.

Player: If this works, it would be a boon for both charr and humans.

Smodur: True. It must be infuriating for humans, even those who aren't descended from Ascalonians.

Player: I imagine it feels like being perpetually stuck in a war.

Smodur: Yeah. All the more reason why this needs to work. Your help is not going unnoticed. [...]

Smodur: Brimstone will be back. Don't worry.

Player: He took a lot of ghosts with him.

Smodur: I noticed. He may not have ended the curse, but he had an effect. And you played a pivotal role. I'll come to your summit for that reason alone.

Player: Even after the cleansing failed?

Smodur: This cleansing's not over. Brimstone's dedication to his duty will bring him back. The least I can do is honor his commitment by attending the summit.

Player: That's good. Thank you. You won't regret it.

Smodur: Well, I'm not so sure about that, but I'll keep my word. I'll be there. (Source)

The above quotes show that Smodur openly appreciated the Commander and Rytlock's help and never called them in demeaning ways unlike in "No Quarter" where Smodur made off-hand comments about their intelligence and keeping them in the dark about certain developments.

Even when he was skeptical about the outcome of the World Summit, Smodur nevertheless honored Rytlock's commitment by attending the summit in the Grove as he's a charr who always keeps his word and respects others' diligence (at least until he decided to act against other leaders' wishes with the sudden execution during a parley in "No Quarter" and thus ruining getting valuable intel and making his ambitions for Khan-Ur more difficult to realize upon angering the other leaders).

Player: With all due respect, those two forts were defended by Vigil and Seraph.

Smodur: They were unprepared, taken by surprise. In the future, everyone will be more alert and ready.

Player: I saw with my own two eyes how those places were torn asunder.

Smodur: I heard it was bad. (sigh) Okay. I respect you, and that alone is the reason I'm agreeing to explore this. I make no commitment, but I'll participate in the discussions. [...]

Smodur: We'll head back as soon as we've helped these Sylvari.

Player: That's thoughtful of you, Imperator. Then what?

Smodur: Then I have a strategy session with my tribunes. They need to know what I learned here today. After that, I'll delegate someone to work with the other races.

Player: That's a smart plan.

Smodur: I know. (Source)

The above quotes show more proof about Smodur respecting his allies rather than demeaning them later, and it also revealed that out of all the leaders participating in the summit, he alone was willing to stay around a while longer to help out the sylvari suffering from the aftermath of the Mordrem assault. As such, he showed himself to be thoughtful and considerate towards his allies even when he could've just hightailed it out of there to report the events to the tribunes ASAP. That shows moral integrity and backbone, further cementing Smodur as an honorable leader. As such, it pains me when Rytlock said that Smodur had no honor after Cinder's sudden execution in "Turnabout".

It would've been interesting if Smodur had partly been influenced by Jormag's whispers (as NPCs throughout Drizzlewood Coast have ambient dialogue mentioning voices) but oddly the voices didn't seem to play any part in any of the events either in the south or north as far as I've seen beyond influencing the charr Commander's former warband recruit Luccia Wildeye who joined the Dominion in the past.

As for story, if we look at Eir and Smodur's respective story appearances for non-norn AND non-charr Commanders, it's almost a tie. If not counting dungeons, Eir appears in 10 story steps for non-norn Commanders (Personal Story: 2 steps, as I leave out "A Light in the Darkness" which is only a vision of Eir in the Dream; Season 1: 2 steps; Season 2: 4 steps; HoT: 1 step; Season 3: 0 steps, as I don't count the recap cinematic of Eir's deeds as anything more than a memory; PoF: 0 steps, as I leave out "The Departing" which is just the Commander's memory of Eir; Season 4: 1 step). Meanwhile, Smodur appears in 12 story steps for non-charr Commanders (Personal Story: 0 steps; Season 1: 1 step; Season 2: 2 steps; HoT: 0 steps; Season 3: 0 steps; PoF: 0 steps; The Icebrood Saga: 9 steps). If we count dungeons, we can add 3 story mode paths for Eir into the list, which makes Eir barely win out with 13 story steps.

As for their respective story impact, Eir does win out due to her more developed backstory (including the entire Edge of Destiny novel) and being deeply tied to one of the protagonists Braham. However, for non-norn Commanders her story is less impactful than Trahearne, and yet the Commander chooses to attend Eir's vigil and give a tearful speech in her honor (even non-norn Commanders who didn't know Eir as well as the norn Commander) while ignoring Trahearne, who had been all Commanders' companion in later personal story, completely (unless there was some off-screen Pact vigil for Trahearne in Fort Trinity, but we never heard of such and only got NPCs complaining how Trahearne's recklessness in Maguuma had gotten so many people killed). If Braham had not been Eir's son and brought all the juicy drama with it, I've no doubt that Eir would've played a significantly lesser role than Smodur in the story as we transitioned from Destiny's Edge to Dragon's Watch.

We get a lot of her backstory and development in Edge of Destiny (including her friendship with the other members, and the guilt she feels over being overconfident and losing Snaff and Glint in the process), and our norn characters get to enjoy her company in norn-specific personal story chapters. After that, though, we witness the first failed reunion of Destiny's Edge; we venture into dungeons to help her retrieve Magdaer for repairing, see her attempt to help out in Sorrow's Embrace before being driven off by Zojja, and finally go for her suicide mission in Honor of the Waves until we convince her that she still has worth as a hero; and we see her reunite with Destiny's Edge again to take down Zhaitan together.

Since then, we learn about Braham being Eir's son while she doesn't aid him in assaulting the Molten Alliance (which, in part, sours their relationship for a time). Braham is forced to approach her so she can help him convince Knut Whitebear to attend the summit in the face of the Mordrem threat, and the two end up fighting some Svanir and start bonding in the process. Eir then joins the Pact as they make preparations to face Mordremoth and reveals some juicy details about Glint and her eggs, including teases of Vlast. Next thing we know, she accompanies the Pact to Maguuma, witnesses the sylvari betrayal, is captured and starved while she's being carted off to be cloned, is freed and tries to help the villain Faolain who stabs her and leaves her for dead. Eir's last heroic act in life is returning the favor to Faolain who is then captured by Mordrem, while the exhausted and weakened Eir then faces her death in the claws of the Vinetooth calmly. She gets a vigil worthy of a hero (unlike poor Trahearne), and later meets with Glint in the Mists and joins her Mist Wardens before she is sent to Tyria to deliver a message to Aurene in order to force her to accept her destiny in the prophecy, while she also tells Braham to finally move on with his life and not worry about her approval.

Smodur, meanwhile, gets some backstory in blog posts and lore interviews by Ree Soesbee and Scott McGough and in some NPC dialogues although it's not that much beyond a few cool tidbits here and there. For charr characters he's a respected if a bit distant figure as is fitting of his position (it's not like we interact with various racial leaders that much compared to the more prominent heroes). However, while he seems a bit threatening and blunt at first, he shows his true colors upon "Tribunes in Effigy" where he acknowledges that the traitor Clement Forktail has redeemed himself.

Smodur later witnesses the beginning of Rox's mission against the Molten Alliance and then focuses on dealing with other threats until he's convinced to witness Rytlock's attempted Foefire cleansing ritual and even helps him out with it by battling ghosts in Barradin's crypt. He attends the World Summit where he voices his concerns while belittling the Mordrem threat until the Commander makes him realize the threat is real, which is further punctuated by the sudden Mordrem invasion of the Grove. Out of all the leaders he decides to stay behind to help the sylvari clear the Mordrem stragglers and tend to the wounded, and he keeps his word by providing the Pact with more supplies, soldiers, engineers and tech.

What happens afterwards is a bit murky. We know Smodur wanted Rytlock to tell him about the Mists trip after the return, but Rytlock ignored the summons to the Black Citadel. Rytlock was eventually demoted, arrested and brought back to the Citadel for a tribunal that we've yet to hear more about. Whatever happened during the tribunal, it convinced the brass to not only let Rytlock go free but restore his rank as tribune. Given legion hierarchy and Smodur and Rytlock's budding friendship, I find it unlikely that Rytlock would've deliberately avoided Smodur, and Smodur certainly didn't have the authority to demote a Blood tribune like Rytlock without seriously angering the paranoid Bangar who'd take it as a personal insult and declare war on Iron. Perhaps the tribunal soured Rytlock and Smodur's friendship, thus explaining their animosity towards each other in "No Quarter", and it emphasizes the issue that the subplot of Rytlock's Mists adventure is still somewhat unresolved since Season 2.

Given what we know of Rytlock's adventure so far, nothing in it (meeting Glint, mastering legends, learning the ways of the revenant, and freeing a seemingly random spirit who helped reignite Sohohin) is dangerous knowledge that Rytlock wanted to keep from the charr leadership and risk his entire career over it. Unless Glint told him something that was not meant for anyone else's ears, or he experienced something else that was way more troubling than the other events in the Mists, so he wanted to keep that info from Bangar, potentially Smodur and everyone else (and thus he says to the Commander that the information is classified upon our arrival in Amnoon). If the story ever explored what happened during that closed-doors tribunal, what secrets Rytlock had to share, and if Bangar forced Smodur's hand to retrieve Rytlock, it might explain Smodur and Rytlock's changing relationship between Season 2 and the Icebrood Saga a bit.

Either way, since those events, Smodur sends Mia to Thunderhead Peaks as Iron representative to take down Kralkatorrik, and later travels to Bangar's land to the rally where he voices his concerns about the Commander's role as champion and Aurene's role in it all although he still graciously accepts the Commander's help. By the time Bangar's treachery is revealed, Smodur goes into high gear and wants to deal with his rival the way he's dealt with the Renegades before. The Commander already starts suspecting that Smodur's reasons are more politically motivated thanks in part due to their earlier conversation and Malice's suggestions, and Smodur proves that these concerns were not unfounded when he starts losing masses of Iron to the Dominion as he adopts strict battlefield justice to deal with the enemy.

At this point Smodur seems to snap and views the position of Khan-Ur as already his; while it's understandable that he'd view Crecia and Efram as his lessers, Malice is a bonafide imperator he should not dismiss so easily despite their differences. As the war progresses, we see Smodur's descent and his gradual change in personality as he tricks the Commander and Rytlock while berating them, and how he jeopardizes his allies' operations by ruining the stealth surprise and by killing a hostage during negotiations just to make a point. He does save the Commander's party from the Frost Legion ambush and continues being confident in his success upon the victories against the Steel Warband until Ryland assassinates him.

All in all, Smodur's story does have nice twists and turns, but some of these make less sense than others unless more is revealed later. He's a crafty imperator and even if he was ruthless, he should be cunning enough to realize that angering Malice and sabotaging his relationship with his allies is not a wise move at least until Bangar has been eliminated and Jormag's threat has been neutralized. It would've made more sense for him to at least wait until the negotiations were over and then decide to take Ryland captive if he feared that Crecia would submit to Ryland's demands due to their family relationship.

Even if the other leaders might berate him for such an action, at least Ryland and Cinder would theoretically be alive in legion custody and could be tortured/questioned for information like Smodur had Seneca the Relentless do to the Molten Alliance prisoners in Season 1. Tricking Efram, Commander and Rytlock was also a questionable move; while Smodur might be okay using a Searing bomb, he should've been forthcoming about his plans. Instead his trickery cost him Efram's support and further soured Commander and Rytlock towards him.

It would all make more sense to me if Jormag had been subtly influencing Smodur for some time now by fueling his paranoia, ambitions and fears to turn him into a more reactive and less meticulous version of himself (just like we saw Jormag manipulating Braham's insecurities and Crecia and Rytlock's troubled family relationships in Bjora Marches).

While I look forward to a potential competition for the Iron throne (while Smodur might have viewn Mia Kindleshot as a potential candidate, lorewise the so far unseen Fume Brighteye is known to be ambitious and bucking to be the next Iron Imperator, so there's no way she's going to let Mia take the throne without a fight especially when many Iron charr loyal to the legions seem to still support Fume's anti-treaty views as Fume's one of the three most respected Iron tribunes based on ambient dialogue which puts her on par with Mia and Bhuer Goreblade).

I sincerely hope that this isn't the end of Smodur's story. Based on the lore of "The Departing", charr who experience violent, traumatic and sudden deaths (like the charr ghost we meet) end up in the limbo of Domain of the Lost where they'll have to find their name and purpose before they're judged and sent to their assigned afterlife:

Lost Spirit: What's going on here? I demand to be released!

Player: We're trapped here.

Lost Spirit: Correction. You are! I deny this human prison and refuse its judgment. I'll murder my way out of here if I have to. I don't belong.

Player: You don't know what you're doing here?

Lost Spirit: I was on a night mission. We were taking fire from all sides. I heard screams and then... Flash of light, then black. I need to get back to them. Finish the mission.

Player: Trauma, unfinished business. We have something in common. (Source)

I'd view Smodur (who died traumatically with a sudden headshot while he had unfinished business with Bangar) reacting to his death in a similar manner to the above charr ghost in the Domain of the Lost and fighting tooth and claw to return from the Underworld back to the land of the living to finish off Bangar if nothing else. Depending on if the Judge still lives in the aftermath of Dhuum's sealing in Hall of Chains or if Desmina rules all of the Underworld (or what remains of it after the formation of Dragonfall), I could see Smodur eager to join Glint's Mist Wardens to have another chance at fighting Jormag (as the Mist rifts are still a thing despite Aurene and potentially Glint trying to repair them) even if he has to be content at being a ghost and letting Iron assume new leadership by Mia or Fume.

This would, in turn, allow the Commander to chat with ghost Smodur and clarify if Smodur was in fact influenced by Jormag's whispers at all. I'd find it odd if the whispers didn't play at least some part; why else would the devs go to the effort of adding subtle ambient dialogue (and even written as per Luccia's journal) clues that some charr were affected by strange voices in Drizzlewood? Perhaps we could see Smodur and Cinder's ghosts being forced to work together to fight a common enemy and if they can even learn to forgive one another; it could be such an emotional storyline where the cycle of hatred is broken and the charr can truly embrace a more harmonious future despite the troubling undertones we've seen in Drizzlewood where even our charr allies keep threatening the Seraph and telling them that humans and charr are only allies for the time being.

Besides, the saga missed a great opportunity of not only showing Bangar's triumphant return to charr lands to announe his victory over Drakkar (and the true announcement of the Dominion) but also his banter and rivalry with Smodur. The two charr never exchanged words while on screen together, and we never heard much about Bangar's views on Smodur beyond him stealing Iron cannons to aim them back at the Black Citadel. I'd love to see Bangar the Voice of Jormag have a conversation with Mist Warden Smodur and maybe have those two have the duel they've been waiting for.

I do appreciate that Alex Kain wrote the illuminating Imperator Correspondences which detail Smodur's views on Mia, Malice, and his response to anonymous charr who questioned his extreme methods (a kind of jab from the devs at some of the players reacting to Smodur's actions in Ep3). But I wouldn't mind more development for Smodur, both in game and via lore books.

So, in short: Justice for Smodur! There could be a redemption arc for him (and maybe even Bangar) yet! :)

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Norentic.4762" said:A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

I would hardly call Smodur a "great character". In both the personal story and Season 2, he had very little interaction and screentime, and what little interaction there was, was ultimately a 1-dimensional stereotypical military officer personality.

Having no much screentime doesn't mean the character isn't relevant at all, Smodur was a VERY important secondary character, we're talkign about an imperator, and let alone, the imperator of the most -relevant- legion, at least on the player's perspective (Having the main CHarr city under his command) and as today, we don't know anyone else cappable to carrying out the duty of being the Iron Legion Imperator. Malice mentioned Mia Kindleshot would be a good candidate to lead Iron Legion troops in Smodur absence, but she's a charr we haven't seen much about, only thing we know is that she helped with the Ebonhawke Treaty and was present in representation of the Charr in the Caudecus's Manor story dungeon.

ANother thing is, Smodur was the only charr with true potential to become next Khan-Ur and it was further proven with the Imperator Correspondence #3 (thank you anet, at least you left a good image of him), even though the playerbase saw him as some ahole for how he behaved during this war, its exactly what would make a good khan-ur, weed out the bad influence, no mercy for defectors, command the war under his absolute order, only thing missing was having the Khan-ur articles and winning everyone's respect which could have achieved by winning the war against Frost Legion, he expected support from the other imperators instead of seeing them as competitors.

I admit I made this thread just to blow off some steam since being killed that way after forcing a character to act all smug and arrogant to the audience's eye was kind of a bad move. I mean, judging by some comments in this and other threads, peopel started to dislike Smodur for the same reasons, but not everyone saw him the way @Kossage.9072 did (good post btw) and only went to the superficial behavior., which saddends me in a way. It added some spice to the story, yes, but anet made the audience side up with the PC allies in their impossible quest to recover his precious cub in the middle of a war threatening a race and commanded by him.

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@"Kossage.9072" said:Besides, the saga missed a great opportunity of not only showing Bangar's triumphant return to charr lands to announe his victory over Drakkar (and the true announcement of the Dominion)I don't believe Bangar ever returned to Charr lands after defeating Drakkar. By the time he "beat" Drakkar, he was already wanted as a rogue Imperator, and Crecia as in command of the Blood Legion, and its lands. Had he tried to return to Charr lands, he would have been arrested, or killed.

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The whole instance was awkward and I agree that Smodur's death was anti-climatic.

They used the offer and rescinding of branching story paths as a narrative device. The offer was unmistakable since it looked like every other offer of branching paths. I understand using the Commander's "F" this power to control the pacing of the discussion and the effect the pacing had on the surprise attack. The studio should have used a different method to control the pacing, something that did not resemble every other offer of branching paths.

Smodur's argument that the Commander was needed at the front gate became stronger with his death. They built up the importance of each path, then auto-resolved the debate by killing one of the debaters. The importance of the Commander making a difficult decision was flushed down the toilet.

Smoldur killed the last member of Ryland's warband and possibly his love interest. The only reason to do this was to close the door on Ryland returning to the fold. We can ignore the fact that Cinder Steeltemper was fridged. The studio could have invested in Ryland's agency and made his personality stand on its own, but cliches and narrative devices are cheaper. All of that tension between Ryland and Smodur was resolved with just a bullet. Maybe there was a message on the bullet.

The scene could be even more awkward depending on who controls the portal.

Perhaps I am describing a matter of taste and I feel awkward offering revisions. However, I think this scene needed the Commander to reinforce their independence from the Charr civil war and their role as a guild leader. The two paths shouldn't have been presented as equally possible. The Commander should have known which path was right for them and held firm. If the scene needed to include the theme of Ryland's revenge, I would have the portal deliver a beast that drags Smoldur back through. Have the beast reappear at Ryalnd's side during the last scene. The beast would have foreshadowed and reinforced Jormag's favor. Anything to make that last scene more interesting and climatic.

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Also, the point is made of having all the eggs in one basket.

If the Commander and crew show up at the front door, Bangar knows all the major players are infront of him and can be taken out at once.

If the attack happens and the commander doesn't show up, but has been known to be in the area? Bangar is on guard, wondering where the hell he/she is.

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If Jormag opened the portal, the attack could not have been planned unless we allow for explicit, direct cooperation between Bangar/Ryland and Jormag. Up till this point, cooperation has been indirect and implicit. Perhaps the attack is best understood as an attack of opportunity offered by Jormag as a test of Ryland's character. Jormag opens a portal near Ryland and a group of Charr to see how Ryland responds.

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@Psientist.6437 said:If Jormag opened the portal, the attack could not have been planned unless we allow for explicit, direct cooperation between Bangar/Ryland and Jormag. Up till this point, cooperation has been indirect and implicit. Perhaps the attack is best understood as an attack of opportunity offered by Jormag as a test of Ryland's character. Jormag opens a portal near Ryland and a group of Charr to see how Ryland responds.

Doesn't have to be Jormag. Can be icebrood or Svanir, or Frost Legion now. You could see a gathered army on the other side of the portals.

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@Kalavier.1097 said:

@Psientist.6437 said:If Jormag opened the portal, the attack could not have been planned unless we allow for explicit, direct cooperation between Bangar/Ryland and Jormag. Up till this point, cooperation has been indirect and implicit. Perhaps the attack is best understood as an attack of opportunity offered by Jormag as a test of Ryland's character. Jormag opens a portal near Ryland and a group of Charr to see how Ryland responds.

Doesn't have to be Jormag. Can be icebrood or Svanir, or Frost Legion now. You could see a gathered army on the other side of the portals.

The assassination used the older Svanir Portals, not the newer Dominion Portals that shows the army. So they were most likely opened by Svanir shamans in allegiance to the Frost Legion.

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