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Strikes turning into Raid 2.0.....


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Trash attitude..worst ever behavior...elitism and the typical one fail=instant disband...all the elements that keep players away from raids and now you find those same elements even in EoTN. It's really a shame as I was having fun with strikes...sadly these days that 's what you get and find in this kind of modes

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I believe the term "elitism" is being used in the GW2 community so much that people forgot what it even means, assuming they ever knew what it meant in the first place.

Raiders don't quit on the first fail. Squads disband ONLY if there is a clear sign that there is no progress with the encounter after several fails, in which case, people don't want to waste their time. That is NOT elitism.

If someone is mean to you, block, mute, leave the squad, make your own LFG set for your own standards and go at it again.

Its always easier to blame someone else's standards, especially if those standards are severely misunderstood.

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99 percent my strikes go off easy but then I don't do woj or boneskinner. I do agree when you get that wipe on raven or even duo happened at least a few leave and you need to get more. That's just most players need instant success and easy rewards so they can't deal with that 1 fail.

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The main reason that keeps people away from raids is their unwillingness to learn, minmax, to train by trying again and again and the effort of finding 9 other people willing to do that. That kind of mindset/ behavior is not a bad one, its a game afterall and if people dont want to do that, they shouldnt. No one has the obligation to do that and everyones main goal should be to strive for the most fun in the game as long as that doesnt infringe the enjoyment for others. But that goes both ways. In an environment where you are dependend on others for your success people get frustraited after a fail because most of the time they will think that they arnt the reason for it. So there will always be players that leave after one fail, especially if they think that finding a diffrent grp to succeed is faster than sticking around (wich is the case for strikes, they are easy and usually dont fail), and as long as they dont flame, thats ok. So there are 3 options:

  1. make a "training" lfg so people know that they have to expect fails.
  2. Accept that people are going to leave after one fail.
  3. Join the Elitists, seriously it gets easier that way. Advertise for fullclear, make high LI grps with metacomposition so you make sure that you are not going to fail in the first place. Or if you dont have Li make at least sure your group has a decent comp to minimize failing. Aim for 25 stacks might + fury, 10 man quickness and 10 man alac, banners spotter and spirits are nice but not a must. Install arcdps and enable logging to track your progress and the effectiveness of the grpmembers, try to master your class and your role. If you somehow still fail (even though i dont think its going to happen if you made sure that you have a metacomp) kick the ones that are underperforming and causing the wipe.

Flaming is a diffrent topic, its not ok but you will encounter it so deal with it.

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Do you blame the players for forming li groups? There where close to no LI groups in the beginning but guess what happened?Bearbow longbow core ranger and his friend soldier core guard joined with other just as helpful players, staying max range for the entire duration of the fight, they never read the chat and never swap utilities. They treat it like open world and expect to get carried through it just like through everything else.Personally i never joined LI groups in the beginning and had a little bit of faith left but I just didnt want to wipe 20 times on whisper each week. Boneskinner was just impossible so i started to join LI groups and clear everything within minutes.A decent group doesnt disband after one failure, not in strikes and not in raids. People start to leave if they see that something is just going completely wrong like some players not stacking, multiple soldier guards, healer not giving boons or not healing or nobody knowing what to do. Havent seen a group disbanding because everyone dps grinded a bit too hard on kodan brothers which did happen a lot in the beginning.

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Sometimes I don't want to waste my time because people can't understand what's happening on their screen after 5 fails — and still doing the same mistakes, especially at Whisperer Of Jormag. Seriously, guys, what is difficult there? After 25% you see red arrows on the ground and deadly aoe, so why do you go melee? I'm always telling people what to do, but... they don't listen. This is a moment when I just quit. No one wants to play with "braindead" people who can't read and learn.Survivability on Strikes depends mostly on dodging things, like that hammer smash on Kodans (very long animation, you can't miss it).Strikes and Raids share common problems: sometimes people can't learn simple mechanics, and this is why there's such a thing as "elitism". You see red aoe, you dodge. Having a healer doesn't mean you can ignore everything. You still should avoid damage by yourself.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Raids 2.0 !??! Count me in ! No seriously the day anet makes a strike like largos or dhuum I will rejoice.

Toxic dps main? Who cares..tell em to hit benchmark on the boss and if they fail repeatedly kick em. I find toxic raiders are the best. They hit the metrics and bring a ton of experience to the table. Treat them like a tool you need to bring down your target and nothing more. I lead my own raids but perhaps op doesn't do that so there might be a disconnect. Op might get flammed for under performing and while it might be embarrassing it might have to do with the experience level of the group's op joins. For example I post Titanic God dps in lfg. I have a concrete expectation that a dps answering this call will be a benchmark dps player.

With all this being said I don't think I've ever posted for a strike and had the party fail to kill within a few pulls. Bringing enough healers and boons is my job and on strikes it's most of the challenge. The fights are easy enough to carry most people.

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@"Henry.5713" said:Couldn't agree more. The usual forums complainers certainly made sure to turn Strike discussions into Raid discussions 2.0.

Not more raids being developed , a casual playerbase surely doesn't need the toxicity of raid players , that toxicity did cost you dearly now...hope you lot "pro players" are happy now

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Stopped doing them myself a while ago.. mostly because some of them like Boneskinner were pushing too far into raid territory where either cheese tactics became the norm or the mechanics were just way too difficult for what strike content is supposed to be.Strikes are not raids.. they should not be harder than any raids and they should certainly not be as demanding in terms of builds and min-maxing play.

Thing I get sick of most of all is people running things like Arc and then complaining when other peoples DPS is lower than their standards and expectations.This isn't raids and I can't stand having to deal with people arguing because they disagree over what other peoples "acceptable" DPS numbers are.. a factor that often changes person by person.Things like Arc can be a useful tool in concept, but the way some players use it to justify being a kitten to other people in this game just makes me wish it wasn't allowed.

Strikes are supposed to be introduction raid content.. basically easier raid like content that would appeal to more people and get them possibly interested in trying out raids.But some of that toxicity in raids which largely contributes to pushing people away from raids has migrated into strikes as well.. causing the same problem.People being turned off the content.. not because it's "too hard" or there some tricky mechanics to learn, but simply becuase they're not interested in being berated and attacked by other players who think there is only 1 right way to play the content.That's not true for raids.. and it certainly isn't true for strikes either.. proof of that can be found with anyone who has beaten either of that content without a generally accepted Meta build.

Truth is, so long as attitudes like that are known to be pretty common in this kind of content, more and more people will avoid playing it just because they don't want to deal with those kinds of players.Years ago the same was true for Fractals and same again for Dungeons before that.

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What people do you have in NA that you call everyone toxic?In EU I just open a squad (or join one without requirements) and Fraenir, Grothmar, Kodan and WoJ are done with just "hi" and "ty". I've never met any toxity in a squad.

Right now (21:00 CET) strike lfg in EU: 7 listings with various strikes, only one with li requirement and one looking for certain professions.An in the raid lfg: 11 listings for raids, 2 of them training, 1 without special requirements. And 3 training squads are running in a discord of a training guild (RTI).

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Henry.5713" said:Couldn't agree more. The usual forums complainers certainly made sure to turn Strike discussions into Raid discussions 2.0.

Not more raids being developed , a casual playerbase surely doesn't need the toxicity of raid players , that toxicity did cost you dearly now...hope you lot "pro players" are happy now

The only toxicity in regards to raids that I see are from those that call raiders toxic. “Toxic casual” is a real thing.

Players that want to play with others with the same mentality as them are not toxic. Those wanting to force other players to play with them are toxic. Those joining groups that they do not meet the requirements for, get kicked as a result, and then complain/demonize those players for it are toxic.

As has been the case since the beginning of the game when we saw similar complaints about LFG, you’re always free to create your own LFG and play with those that have the same mindset as you (e.g. casual, no meta, whatever).

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Who knows what toxic even is. You know what , I was called a piece of garbage when my boons are dps were not good enough. It was deserved my metrics did not merit my slot in the raid. Improvements were made, new gear accessed and metrics improved. Falling within the average read outs of any group content is fine. People who severely under perform are singled out due to their output being so low. Do people care if the boon Chrono hits 30k ? No not really unless boons are actually bad then at that point what's the utility of having that slot in the first place.

Either way unlike another difficult hobby like rock climbing or something , this is a team effort. If peoples methods are not to standard or detrimental the success of the team then kicking will occur. To maximize the possibility of playing with a team people will need to provide value and do so consistently. These are the emergent properties of teams. Having a problem with this mean certain people have a problem with team based content ,hobbies , or work. The activity has nothing to do with anything. No group of anyone ,barring some other incentive, will willingly deal with or carry valueless team members. Especially when there are many players willing and able fill the slot.

I've told people this many times but I can't market this enough. Please join a community like raid academy for learning or grouping. Night and day difference. I actually met people who have never pugged a single boss there XD. What also helps is playing with people of a similar skill and expectations. Playing with DNT and speed runners? Yeh you might get kicked for anything less than perfection. Got a decent group with 10 kills per person average then I doubt anyone is expecting meta defining performance.

Edit to remove unintentional quote

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Yeah sure.People who don't want to raid or do strikes with you, unless you can show them you know what you are doing...The guy that did not give you the job you wanted, claiming the irrational need of qualification...Your favourite sports team, that pays professionals instead of letting the fans play......all bad toxic elitists.

Just face it: Those with the ability to perform on a certain level to easily do strikes/raids (and that's still a very low level compared to whats possible...) don't have problems to get into groups or form their own, those without have to stay here and fill the forums with complains about the bad community that just wouldn't carry them to the loot they feel entitled to. Such a cruel world...

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Like usual, there are those who want to be done as quickly as possible, and some who just want to get it done, no matter how.

As long as these two mix, you get toxicity from one side or the other. The first group will call the others leech (despite the fact that -no- they're not trying to get carried, they're trying to play the game the way they want), and the second group will call the other elitist killjoy rushers (despite the fact that's the way they enjoy the game).

Is there a wrong or right attitude ? No. Disengage, remake the party. Dont ruin it for one, or the other, no need for name calling, no need for further interaction, state your intent, and stick to it. You want to rush, you say you intend to rush. If everyone's fine with it, you're good to go. Someone raises an issue, tell them that they wont get much fun with your current party, and encourage them to find a new one elsewhere. The same goes for the other side. You're a professional, joining a run with normal runners, do -not- push your arcdps ratings to their face, they do not care, they do not want to min max. They just want to explore the run, try mechanics, and potentially even -do- the mechanics, rather than trying to rush past parts of it. There are no wrong way to do them, but there are also no right way to do them either.

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@Ooops.8694 said:Your favourite sports team, that pays professionals instead of letting the fans play...True. It's not a problem when a sports team asks for professionals, and has very high requirements. It is a problem when an organizer creates an event designed for professionals, but intends for schoolkids (and other amateurs) to participate (and advertises it for them). The professionals may not see any problems, but the amateurs aren't likely to find that fun at all.Said situation is not the professionals' fault. Nor it is the amateurs' fault. The blame in such a situation is completely on the organizer's side.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Henry.5713" said:Couldn't agree more. The usual forums complainers certainly made sure to turn Strike discussions into Raid discussions 2.0.

Not more raids being developed , a casual playerbase surely doesn't need the toxicity of raid players , that toxicity did cost you dearly now...hope you lot "pro players" are happy now

The only toxicity in regards to raids that I see are from those that call raiders toxic. “Toxic casual” is a real thing.

Players that want to play with others with the same mentality as them are not toxic. Those wanting to force other players to play with them are toxic. Those joining groups that they do not meet the requirements for, get kicked as a result, and then complain/demonize those players for it are toxic.

As has been the case since the beginning of the game when we saw similar complaints about LFG,
you’re always free to create your own LFG and play with those that have the same mindset as you (e.g. casual, no meta, whatever).

If you have standards...then put the requirements in the LFG! Right now there are "Tags" who display : LFG for more and you join with makeshift DPS build, no raid material but not even a so called leecher, you may not reach 35k snowcrow benchmark table..but you do enough to earn Gold reward and yet.....people then complain saying you're leeching? If you're dying to use ArcDPS...put the LI req and spare people your toxicity

I see....you don't find players fast enough with your LI reqs? No I don't try to join your l33t team with LI reqs....you ask for normal players while secretly using ArcDPS then throwing a tantrum if the DPS not up with your speed run standards

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Imagine thinking that Strikes are anywhere close to raids and that you're entitled to be mean to people for beginner raids. I could understand, if it was harder, but most Strikes aren't even T3/T4 Fractals levels of hard., let alone 100CM or "raid hard".

People fail because they come on open-world builds, because the game is mostly open world, not because they're bad players. There's no incentive to bring proper builds or gear to any content now because the devs keep dumbing down the game more and more, and I imagine its only going to get worse since they seem to want it to be extremely easy.

They changed the game so instead of being killed in lv10 area, you can take on 20-30 enemies instead. And ever since then its just become worse and worse, with Drizzlewood being the definition of easy peasy lemon squeezy due to lack of scaling.

To understand something, look at the root of the problem. Where it started, and what went wrong. Don't get upset at other people, who are just victims of a bad system, that should never have ended up this way in the first place. The game set out to be casual-friendly but ended up as casual-only, and I think there's an important difference there.

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:I see....you don't find players fast enough with your LI reqs? No I don't try to join your l33t team with LI reqs....you ask for normal players while secretly using ArcDPS then throwing a tantrum if the DPS not up with your speed run standards

Usually if you see a "role" asked in lfg (even when li is not requested), ppl expect some minimal exp, like for example give perma alac when you come as "alac", or do more dps than an hfb when you come as "dps".

It's in "all welcome" party that ppl don't expect anything.

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:I see....you don't find players fast enough with your LI reqs?Small reality check... Most people doing strikes daily don't bother joining groups with no requirements. And the usual "free for all" crowd stopped long ago or only does single easy strikes.If you want your group to fill up faster, you add requirements, not lower them... ;-)

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