Jormag is plotting to take down primordus and absorb its magic to have no weakness

[The Ace.9105]

Kinda obvious plot tbh. I have no idea why the player character isn't even remembering that primordus is the weakness of Jormag.

[Smoosh.2718]

I thought they were weak to each other..... like long lost lovers.

Wait.. does that mean Snargle Goldclaws next book will be called Dragon X Dragon: The tail of Steamy cold lovers.

[The Ace.9105]

@Smoosh.2718 said:I thought they were weak to each other..... like long lost lovers.

Wait.. does that mean Snargle Goldclaws next book will be called Dragon X Dragon: The tail of Steamy cold lovers.

What are you even talking about?

[Teratus.2859]

@Smoosh.2718 said:I thought they were weak to each other..... like long lost lovers.

Wait.. does that mean Snargle Goldclaws next book will be called Dragon X Dragon: The tail of Steamy cold lovers.

A romance of fire and ice XD

[Smoosh.2718]

@The Ace.9105 said:What are you even talking about?

You mean to tell me you have not been reading the works of the best NPC in the game?!

[Randulf.7614]

@Smoosh.2718 said:

@The Ace.9105 said:What are you even talking about?

You mean to tell me you have not been reading the works of the best NPC in the game?!

Second best to Wide Eye Miller

[quaniesan.8497]

Off topic a little, I love how Anet uses the same word "magic" for both magic and magic energy/power (or mana or spiritual energy etc... take your own rpg/comics). Magic typically refers to the spell itself or whatever act that causes ... uh...magical effect , i.e " she is performing a magic". Magic power fuels the act of magic. And here we have "Absorbing the dragon's magic" ? I chuckled a little. Anet still lives in the comic age of He-man, where writers are in primitive stage of imagination that cannot distinguish between magic and magical energy/essence . Sure sympathizer can come up and defend them with "well, they can define their own term you know". Wouldn't it make it easier if they just say, X absorbs Y's power.

[draxynnic.3719]

I don't think it would work that way. Jormag trying to absorb Primordus' magic would probably simply kill em.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@draxynnic.3719 said:I don't think it would work that way. Jormag trying to absorb Primordus' magic would probably simply kill em.

My thoughts exactly. While having us kill Primordus without a replacement will result in Tyria's destruction. Which means it's a loss for Jormag regardless.

Tom Abernathy said that Jormag's 100% sincere about wanting to preserve Tyria. So Jormag doesn't want the world's destruction unlike Kralkatorrik. In turn, even if Jormag is fighting against Primordus, it won't seek a killing blow.

@"quaniesan.8497" said:Off topic a little, I love how Anet uses the same word "magic" for both magic and magic energy/power (or mana or spiritual energy etc... take your own rpg/comics). Magic typically refers to the spell itself or whatever act that causes ... uh...magical effect , i.e " she is performing a magic". Magic power fuels the act of magic. And here we have "Absorbing the dragon's magic" ? I chuckled a little. Anet still lives in the comic age of He-man, where writers are in primitive stage of imagination that cannot distinguish between magic and magical energy/essence . Sure sympathizer can come up and defend them with "well, they can define their own term you know". Wouldn't it make it easier if they just say, X absorbs Y's power.

Regarding to "magical typically refers to the spell itself or whatever act that causes" - the issue you have there is that you're taking other context and trying to apply it here. Yeah that's basically a "they can define their own term you know" but it should be stressed that in Tyria, magic isn't the spell; the spell is the spell. Magic is the force behind the spell.

That said, "dragon magic" is also referred to as "draconic energy". Which is basically just shorthand for "a dragon's magical energy from their sphere of influence".

And they also, sometimes, do indeed just shorthand it further to "Y's power".

[Drizzt.1796]

@draxynnic.3719 said:I don't think it would work that way. Jormag trying to absorb Primordus' magic would probably simply kill em.Exactly. Kralkittorrik was already being torn up by the magic's trapped inside of him in Descent.

[Brycar.2651]

Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Brycar.2651 said:Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant ass glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

[Bast.7253]

I'm not sure Primordus is the end game here. I know they've introduced the dwarves and some destroyers this season but it feels like a red herring. My money would either be on DSD.. or...

Jormag is traveling through the mists not consuming/destroying anything because they have a goal in mind. Perhaps they're looking to bring some other being from the mists that encourages us to side with it. Jormag constantly mentions a big threat on the horizon and also mentions that it never corrupts anything that doesn't ask for it. It implied that we would want its help eventually and it would be waiting when we do. That doesn't mean Jormag isn't the root cause for said threat being there in the first place and it may just be part of its long-term manipulative game. Create a problem and then offer the solution.

With Cantha coming up everyone just assumes DSD, and as much as I'd like to learn about that dragon and potentially see some ancient largos cities and think the art team could do a fantastic job with some underwater zones, I feel like it could just as easily be something else entirely that leads us there. Whether it be the Celestials, the Orcale of the Mists, or something else entirely unknown. While at present GW2 seems to be pretty closely following pre-established lore and not deviating into new and unfamiliar territory, I'm not excluding the possibility. Especially with the latest art book and some of the evolution of the Utopia lore. I don't feel like that was a coincidence or even a set up for a future expansion because I don't think the writers think far enough ahead to consider plots that far ahead. In some cases you could advocate they have, but from the majority of things I've seen it seems like an abstract bullet point more than a fleshed out concept.

On a side note I find it interesting how close we are to Bastion with all of the weird things going on there. Given the nature of the Mursaat I assume it's possible the creatures we see there and the weird interactions with time and the mists could be something of their doing, but given the proximity to Jormag at the moment whose to say they couldn't tie that in as well, especially given the cinematic for the saga showed human slaves and centaurs. We're already pretty close to the area we could potentially see this and given how linear this plot has been I'd imagine our reason for going there would be pretty closely related to Jormag. The only other option would be somewhere to the far east deeper into Charr territory with a rogue human civilization but with how little detail they've given about the spirits/jotun/existing civilizations in the current zones I doubt they would attempt to introduce something like this in a 30- 1 hour story episode.

Anyway, long-winded but I think Jormag's plot extends beyond what seems like essentially sibling rivalry of conflicting magics and I think Primordus would have to do something pretty drastic to convince us to help Jormag defeat him given what we know about the state of Tyria and the necessity of the balance. Aurene, friendly or not, would likely not be too keen on aiding in this process either unless she had some information that let her realize she could safely absorb the energy without destroying the planet. I do think Jormag seeks domination and it's going to involve a little outside help. Older or not, I don't think Jormag's goal is to corrupt the commander whether for them or to get to Aurene because I don't think they see that as a realistic option. Also, with the emphasis on Aurene's connection to the mists I think that's another indication that this is going to get pretty otherworldly by the end of the saga. Though it is odd that we haven't heard anything about the other elder dragons randomly appearing in the mists for a free all you can eat reality buffet.

[Kalavier.1097]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Brycar.2651" said:Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant kitten glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

Judging from the amount of blood flows, and the "shards" we can collect (the achievement blurb). This area was one a duel between Jormag and Primordus. Primordus appears to have come out the victor in that particular battle.

[Brycar.2651]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant kitten glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

I meant the fire lava in the tunnel with the fire imps. The first time I saw that I wondered what lava had to do with the Jormag. Not the blueish rivers.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Kalavier.1097 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant kitten glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

Judging from the amount of blood flows, and the "shards" we can collect (the achievement blurb). This area was one a duel between Jormag and Primordus. Primordus appears to have come out the victor in that particular battle.

The shards are ancient, but there's no suggestion that the flowing blood is old too, especially when it seems to be coming from Jormag now.

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant kitten glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

I meant the fire lava in the tunnel with the fire imps. The first time I saw that I wondered what lava had to do with the Jormag. Not the blueish rivers.

Hmm, guess I've not seen this tunnel? There's the tunnel leading to the Sanctum of the Wild which has heat vents and Dominion Effigies, but I don't recall finding one with fire imps - where's it at?

That said, not everything in the map has to do with Jormag. Or Primordus.

EDIT: Just went into the Effigy tunnel again and there are a few Fire imps there. But that's not Primordus related at all - there's even a PoI that calls it "thermal vents".

[Kalythsu.8350]

Jormag wants to preserve life and Tyria. But what about Primordius. My theory is that Primordius is the enemy Jormag fears.

Why? I think that after the events of episode 5 of season 3, Primordius realized that Jormag is his weak point and by the time she lives, he will be vulnerable. Then it is not Jormag who wants to attack Primordius, it is Primordius who wants to attack Jormag and kill him ^^

And if Jormag has the ability to travel in the Mists (as Kralkatorrik could after eating Balthazar's magic) it means that Kralaktorrik's magic was released in Lines of Force when he died.

Remember that Taimi said that the closer a dragon is, the more it absorbs the other dragon's magic compared to the more distant ones. And when Kralkatorrik died, after Aurene it was Primordius the closest. My guess is that this accelerated his awakening process and that he is determined to devour Jormag to eliminate his only weakness ^^

Moreover, the logo of the Living World often takes the color of the dragons (season 1 and 2 black in relation to Zhaitan? Season 3 green in relation to Mordremoth? Season 4 purple in relation to Kralkatorrik?) and the saga (or season 5 call it what you want ^^) is blue and red. Blue would represent Jormag but red? Primordius?

Then I saw this Thermal Conduit also on the new map, you can hear rumbles while staying a little bit on the place. The concern is the Fire Imps and Fire Effigies that may reveal it's more related to the Legion of Flame.

[Randulf.7614]

Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

[EdwinLi.1284]

@"Randulf.7614" said:Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

It is more that Jormag's method to preserve Tyria is to turn everything into Ice or at least freeze everything with ice. Like preserving something in a block of Ice so it never ages and remain the same forever.

This is the thing we have to keep in mind with Elder Dragons, their reason and actions can be either good intentions or bad intentions but their method are just extreme to a point it harms Tyria. In Jormag case it is to "preserve" Tyria in a giant block of Ice so everything is frozen because in Jormag's view "Ice Protects" the people trapped in it. A world where everyone is in a Icy prison for their own protection and preservation.

---

On topic:

I have a feeling that the conflict we are about to see maybe a Stone Summit versus Frost Legion battle.

The Commander and his/her allies are either going to be a third faction in this war or ally themselves with Jormag due to circumstances withing a temporary alliance until Primordus is defeated then we go back to fighting each other.

[Fenom.9457]

@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

It is more that Jormag's method to preserve Tyria is to turn everything into Ice or at least freeze everything with ice. Like preserving something in a block of Ice so it never ages and remain the same forever.

This is the thing we have to keep in mind with Elder Dragons, their reason and actions can be either good intentions or bad intentions but their method are just extreme to a point it harms Tyria. In Jormag case it is to "preserve" Tyria in a giant block of Ice so everything is frozen because in Jormag's view "Ice Protects" the people trapped in it. A world where everyone is in a Icy prison for their own protection and preservation.

---

On topic:

I have a feeling that the conflict we are about to see maybe a Stone Summit versus Frost Legion battle.

The Commander and his/her allies are either going to be a third faction in this war or ally themselves with Jormag due to circumstances withing a temporary alliance until Primordus is defeated then we go back to fighting each other.

I like that. Also I know the WvW in PvE thing was an idea they tried, but if they decide to stick with it for another map it would be neat to see one with 3 factions.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Randulf.7614 said:Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

I took Aurene's dialogue as a reference to the natural effects on the world that an Elder Dragon waking with power inadvertently has.

[Vekale.7890]

@Kalythsu.8350 said:Jormag wants to preserve life and Tyria. But what about Primordius. My theory is that Primordius is the enemy Jormag fears.

Why? I think that after the events of episode 5 of season 3, Primordius realized that Jormag is his weak point and by the time she lives, he will be vulnerable. Then it is not Jormag who wants to attack Primordius, it is Primordius who wants to attack Jormag and kill him ^^

And if Jormag has the ability to travel in the Mists (as Kralkatorrik could after eating Balthazar's magic) it means that Kralaktorrik's magic was released in Lines of Force when he died.

Remember that Taimi said that the closer a dragon is, the more it absorbs the other dragon's magic compared to the more distant ones. And when Kralkatorrik died, after Aurene it was Primordius the closest. My guess is that this accelerated his awakening process and that he is determined to devour Jormag to eliminate his only weakness ^^

Moreover, the logo of the Living World often takes the color of the dragons (season 1 and 2 black in relation to Zhaitan? Season 3 green in relation to Mordremoth? Season 4 purple in relation to Kralkatorrik?) and the saga (or season 5 call it what you want ^^) is blue and red. Blue would represent Jormag but red? Primordius?

Then I saw this Thermal Conduit also on the new map, you can hear rumbles while staying a little bit on the place. The concern is the Fire Imps and Fire Effigies that may reveal it's more related to the Legion of Flame.

Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

[Teratus.2859]

Jormag manipulates with the Truth rather than lies so while it may be sincere about wanting to "preserve" the world and "protect" it, it wants to do so in it's own way.Jormag has made another statement in the past, "Ice fortifies, Ice protects." along with "You can bring Eternal Peace to this world."

From these statements I believe that Jormag's solution and agenda of "Protecting" and "Preserving" the world are quite literal.. Jormag aims to freeze the entire world..With all living things frozen within the ice they would be "protected" and "Preserved" for all eternity.

[castlemanic.3198]

@Vekale.7890 said:Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

[Stephen.6312]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Vekale.7890 said:Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.