Jormag is plotting to take down primordus and absorb its magic to have no weakness — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Jormag is plotting to take down primordus and absorb its magic to have no weakness

The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭

Kinda obvious plot tbh. I have no idea why the player character isn't even remembering that primordus is the weakness of Jormag.

Comments

  • The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Smoosh.2718 said:
    I thought they were weak to each other..... like long lost lovers.

    Wait.. does that mean Snargle Goldclaws next book will be called Dragon X Dragon: The tail of Steamy cold lovers.

    What are you even talking about?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020

    @Smoosh.2718 said:

    @The Ace.9105 said:
    What are you even talking about?

    You mean to tell me you have not been reading the works of the best NPC in the game?!

    Second best to Wide Eye Miller

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • quaniesan.8497quaniesan.8497 Member ✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020

    Off topic a little, I love how Anet uses the same word "magic" for both magic and magic energy/power (or mana or spiritual energy etc... take your own rpg/comics). Magic typically refers to the spell itself or whatever act that causes ... uh...magical effect , i.e " she is performing a magic". Magic power fuels the act of magic. And here we have "Absorbing the dragon's magic" ? I chuckled a little. Anet still lives in the comic age of He-man, where writers are in primitive stage of imagination that cannot distinguish between magic and magical energy/essence . Sure sympathizer can come up and defend them with "well, they can define their own term you know". Wouldn't it make it easier if they just say, X absorbs Y's power.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think it would work that way. Jormag trying to absorb Primordus' magic would probably simply kill em.

  • Drizzt.1796Drizzt.1796 Member ✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    I don't think it would work that way. Jormag trying to absorb Primordus' magic would probably simply kill em.

    Exactly. Kralkittorrik was already being torn up by the magic's trapped inside of him in Descent.

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  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

    Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brycar.2651 said:
    Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

    Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

    Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant kitten glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

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  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not sure Primordus is the end game here. I know they've introduced the dwarves and some destroyers this season but it feels like a red herring. My money would either be on DSD.. or...

    Jormag is traveling through the mists not consuming/destroying anything because they have a goal in mind. Perhaps they're looking to bring some other being from the mists that encourages us to side with it. Jormag constantly mentions a big threat on the horizon and also mentions that it never corrupts anything that doesn't ask for it. It implied that we would want its help eventually and it would be waiting when we do. That doesn't mean Jormag isn't the root cause for said threat being there in the first place and it may just be part of its long-term manipulative game. Create a problem and then offer the solution.

    With Cantha coming up everyone just assumes DSD, and as much as I'd like to learn about that dragon and potentially see some ancient largos cities and think the art team could do a fantastic job with some underwater zones, I feel like it could just as easily be something else entirely that leads us there. Whether it be the Celestials, the Orcale of the Mists, or something else entirely unknown. While at present GW2 seems to be pretty closely following pre-established lore and not deviating into new and unfamiliar territory, I'm not excluding the possibility. Especially with the latest art book and some of the evolution of the Utopia lore. I don't feel like that was a coincidence or even a set up for a future expansion because I don't think the writers think far enough ahead to consider plots that far ahead. In some cases you could advocate they have, but from the majority of things I've seen it seems like an abstract bullet point more than a fleshed out concept.

    On a side note I find it interesting how close we are to Bastion with all of the weird things going on there. Given the nature of the Mursaat I assume it's possible the creatures we see there and the weird interactions with time and the mists could be something of their doing, but given the proximity to Jormag at the moment whose to say they couldn't tie that in as well, especially given the cinematic for the saga showed human slaves and centaurs. We're already pretty close to the area we could potentially see this and given how linear this plot has been I'd imagine our reason for going there would be pretty closely related to Jormag. The only other option would be somewhere to the far east deeper into Charr territory with a rogue human civilization but with how little detail they've given about the spirits/jotun/existing civilizations in the current zones I doubt they would attempt to introduce something like this in a 30- 1 hour story episode.

    Anyway, long-winded but I think Jormag's plot extends beyond what seems like essentially sibling rivalry of conflicting magics and I think Primordus would have to do something pretty drastic to convince us to help Jormag defeat him given what we know about the state of Tyria and the necessity of the balance. Aurene, friendly or not, would likely not be too keen on aiding in this process either unless she had some information that let her realize she could safely absorb the energy without destroying the planet. I do think Jormag seeks domination and it's going to involve a little outside help. Older or not, I don't think Jormag's goal is to corrupt the commander whether for them or to get to Aurene because I don't think they see that as a realistic option. Also, with the emphasis on Aurene's connection to the mists I think that's another indication that this is going to get pretty otherworldly by the end of the saga. Though it is odd that we haven't heard anything about the other elder dragons randomly appearing in the mists for a free all you can eat reality buffet.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Brycar.2651 said:
    Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

    Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

    Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant kitten glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

    Judging from the amount of blood flows, and the "shards" we can collect (the achievement blurb). This area was one a duel between Jormag and Primordus. Primordus appears to have come out the victor in that particular battle.

  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Brycar.2651 said:
    Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

    Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

    Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant kitten glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

    I meant the fire lava in the tunnel with the fire imps. The first time I saw that I wondered what lava had to do with the Jormag. Not the blueish rivers.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Brycar.2651 said:
    Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

    Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

    Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant kitten glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

    Judging from the amount of blood flows, and the "shards" we can collect (the achievement blurb). This area was one a duel between Jormag and Primordus. Primordus appears to have come out the victor in that particular battle.

    The shards are ancient, but there's no suggestion that the flowing blood is old too, especially when it seems to be coming from Jormag now.

    @Brycar.2651 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Brycar.2651 said:
    Hmmm a legion of frost charr might damage Primordus.

    Also I did note the Primordus-ish lava veins in the new map’s caverns.

    Those veins are Jormag's blood in liquid form, which the Dominion have been using to create the Frost Legion. Apparently the giant kitten glaciers that got removed for the map barrier, and are present in Asgeir's Legacy, is Jormag's blood in crystallized form.

    I meant the fire lava in the tunnel with the fire imps. The first time I saw that I wondered what lava had to do with the Jormag. Not the blueish rivers.

    Hmm, guess I've not seen this tunnel? There's the tunnel leading to the Sanctum of the Wild which has heat vents and Dominion Effigies, but I don't recall finding one with fire imps - where's it at?

    That said, not everything in the map has to do with Jormag. Or Primordus.

    EDIT: Just went into the Effigy tunnel again and there are a few Fire imps there. But that's not Primordus related at all - there's even a PoI that calls it "thermal vents".

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  • Kalythsu.8350Kalythsu.8350 Member ✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    Jormag wants to preserve life and Tyria. But what about Primordius. My theory is that Primordius is the enemy Jormag fears.

    Why? I think that after the events of episode 5 of season 3, Primordius realized that Jormag is his weak point and by the time she lives, he will be vulnerable. Then it is not Jormag who wants to attack Primordius, it is Primordius who wants to attack Jormag and kill him ^^

    And if Jormag has the ability to travel in the Mists (as Kralkatorrik could after eating Balthazar's magic) it means that Kralaktorrik's magic was released in Lines of Force when he died.

    Remember that Taimi said that the closer a dragon is, the more it absorbs the other dragon's magic compared to the more distant ones. And when Kralkatorrik died, after Aurene it was Primordius the closest. My guess is that this accelerated his awakening process and that he is determined to devour Jormag to eliminate his only weakness ^^

    Moreover, the logo of the Living World often takes the color of the dragons (season 1 and 2 black in relation to Zhaitan? Season 3 green in relation to Mordremoth? Season 4 purple in relation to Kralkatorrik?) and the saga (or season 5 call it what you want ^^) is blue and red. Blue would represent Jormag but red? Primordius?

    Then I saw this Thermal Conduit also on the new map, you can hear rumbles while staying a little bit on the place. The concern is the Fire Imps and Fire Effigies that may reveal it's more related to the Legion of Flame.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

    It is more that Jormag's method to preserve Tyria is to turn everything into Ice or at least freeze everything with ice. Like preserving something in a block of Ice so it never ages and remain the same forever.

    This is the thing we have to keep in mind with Elder Dragons, their reason and actions can be either good intentions or bad intentions but their method are just extreme to a point it harms Tyria. In Jormag case it is to "preserve" Tyria in a giant block of Ice so everything is frozen because in Jormag's view "Ice Protects" the people trapped in it. A world where everyone is in a Icy prison for their own protection and preservation.


    On topic:

    I have a feeling that the conflict we are about to see maybe a Stone Summit versus Frost Legion battle.

    The Commander and his/her allies are either going to be a third faction in this war or ally themselves with Jormag due to circumstances withing a temporary alliance until Primordus is defeated then we go back to fighting each other.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

    It is more that Jormag's method to preserve Tyria is to turn everything into Ice or at least freeze everything with ice. Like preserving something in a block of Ice so it never ages and remain the same forever.

    This is the thing we have to keep in mind with Elder Dragons, their reason and actions can be either good intentions or bad intentions but their method are just extreme to a point it harms Tyria. In Jormag case it is to "preserve" Tyria in a giant block of Ice so everything is frozen because in Jormag's view "Ice Protects" the people trapped in it. A world where everyone is in a Icy prison for their own protection and preservation.


    On topic:

    I have a feeling that the conflict we are about to see maybe a Stone Summit versus Frost Legion battle.

    The Commander and his/her allies are either going to be a third faction in this war or ally themselves with Jormag due to circumstances withing a temporary alliance until Primordus is defeated then we go back to fighting each other.

    I like that. Also I know the WvW in PvE thing was an idea they tried, but if they decide to stick with it for another map it would be neat to see one with 3 factions.

    I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

    I took Aurene's dialogue as a reference to the natural effects on the world that an Elder Dragon waking with power inadvertently has.

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  • @Kalythsu.8350 said:
    Jormag wants to preserve life and Tyria. But what about Primordius. My theory is that Primordius is the enemy Jormag fears.

    Why? I think that after the events of episode 5 of season 3, Primordius realized that Jormag is his weak point and by the time she lives, he will be vulnerable. Then it is not Jormag who wants to attack Primordius, it is Primordius who wants to attack Jormag and kill him ^^

    And if Jormag has the ability to travel in the Mists (as Kralkatorrik could after eating Balthazar's magic) it means that Kralaktorrik's magic was released in Lines of Force when he died.

    Remember that Taimi said that the closer a dragon is, the more it absorbs the other dragon's magic compared to the more distant ones. And when Kralkatorrik died, after Aurene it was Primordius the closest. My guess is that this accelerated his awakening process and that he is determined to devour Jormag to eliminate his only weakness ^^

    Moreover, the logo of the Living World often takes the color of the dragons (season 1 and 2 black in relation to Zhaitan? Season 3 green in relation to Mordremoth? Season 4 purple in relation to Kralkatorrik?) and the saga (or season 5 call it what you want ^^) is blue and red. Blue would represent Jormag but red? Primordius?

    Then I saw this Thermal Conduit also on the new map, you can hear rumbles while staying a little bit on the place. The concern is the Fire Imps and Fire Effigies that may reveal it's more related to the Legion of Flame.

    Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Jormag manipulates with the Truth rather than lies so while it may be sincere about wanting to "preserve" the world and "protect" it, it wants to do so in it's own way.
    Jormag has made another statement in the past, "Ice fortifies, Ice protects." along with "You can bring Eternal Peace to this world."

    From these statements I believe that Jormag's solution and agenda of "Protecting" and "Preserving" the world are quite literal.. Jormag aims to freeze the entire world..
    With all living things frozen within the ice they would be "protected" and "Preserved" for all eternity.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vekale.7890 said:
    Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

    Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Vekale.7890 said:
    Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

    Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

    It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1.

  • castlemanic.3198castlemanic.3198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Vekale.7890 said:
    Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

    Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

    It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.

    thanks, i missed that

    Whataboutism is disingenuous at best. If you join a debate and provide little to no proof when the other side provides lots of evidence, you can't then declare yourself the winner of that debate. I won't engage with bad faith arguments.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Vekale.7890 said:
    Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

    Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

    It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.

    DOesn't that just say the shards were from the battle, rather than the liquid veins?

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Vekale.7890 said:
    Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

    Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

    It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.

    DOesn't that just say the shards were from the battle, rather than the liquid veins?

    Yeah, it does. I probably misread castlemaniac's comment.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @castlemanic.3198 said:

    @Vekale.7890 said:
    Jormag does fear Primordius, proof is in the north part of Drizzlewood Coast. Those icy veins is Jormags blood from when he/she battled Primordius, guessing from map we can assume Primordus won the fight. It still isn't made clear as to why this happened but it'll most likely happen again

    Where is it stated that the blood from jormag is when they battled primordus?

    It's in the Shards of Jormag achevement. The wiki has a reference.

    DOesn't that just say the shards were from the battle, rather than the liquid veins?

    Correct, the achievement is about the shards.

    The blood's origin is left unanswered - at least directly - for why it is there. But the dialogue in the first instance implies that the blood froze into what ANet in the Guild Chat stream called "torment ice" (likely referencing how it's a reskin of the rock formations made for the Mouth of Torment), and that to gain power Jormag went to the location to thaw and consume their own blood. But it also gets implied that the Dominion is bleeding Jormag to power the Frost Legion conversion (why it would freeze then unfreeze is unclear though).

    Regardless of that though, I am doubtful that the blood has been there for 10,000 years - for two reasons 1) the bridge was built going to the frozen blood that Jormag drew in; odd for the norn to build a bridge leading into a wall; 2) there's a lot of foliage in the norther half, which was frozen over, implying that the blood is relatively recent; or at least, not since the previous dragonrise several thousand years ago. Which makes me think Jormag began bleeding because of the actions of Season 3, or at least the blood in the area began flowing out after Jormag went into ice - whether they got the injuries from S3, Asgeir, or Primordus a 3,000-10,000 years ago is harder to ascertain. After all, Kralkatorrik was still bleeding when he woke up from a battle during the previous dragonrise, so it wouldn't be odd if Jormag was too.

    Also weird that Jormag's shards would still be there, too. Since dragon's blood and shards would be highly magically potent, seems unreasonable that they'd remain.

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  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2020

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Jormag says it wants to preseve Tyria, but doesn't Aurene mention something about Tyria crying out in reponse to Jormag's rising and movements post-end instance?

    It is more that Jormag's method to preserve Tyria is to turn everything into Ice or at least freeze everything with ice. Like preserving something in a block of Ice so it never ages and remain the same forever.

    This is the thing we have to keep in mind with Elder Dragons, their reason and actions can be either good intentions or bad intentions but their method are just extreme to a point it harms Tyria. In Jormag case it is to "preserve" Tyria in a giant block of Ice so everything is frozen because in Jormag's view "Ice Protects" the people trapped in it. A world where everyone is in a Icy prison for their own protection and preservation.


    On topic:

    I have a feeling that the conflict we are about to see maybe a Stone Summit versus Frost Legion battle.

    The Commander and his/her allies are either going to be a third faction in this war or ally themselves with Jormag due to circumstances withing a temporary alliance until Primordus is defeated then we go back to fighting each other.

    This.

    Jormag's plan is basically https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Infinite_Tsukuyomi but with ice instead of illusion.

    The franchise has always been a long string of pop culture references even since GW1, and the game itself has drawn from this series alot; as seen in the various guild logos, skill designs and many other elements (like Thief headbands), the devs are fans of it.

    In recent years they're trying to be more original and do less pop culture, but its still very much there.

    Jormag wants to create a frozen dreamland where it can siphon magic from Tyria forever, an end to the cycle. People would stop dying, lands would stop being destroyed, everything would just be frozen and eternal, just like Jormag itself.

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  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kalythsu.8350 said:
    Jormag wants to preserve life and Tyria. But what about Primordius. My theory is that Primordius is the enemy Jormag fears.

    Why? I think that after the events of episode 5 of season 3, Primordius realized that Jormag is his weak point and by the time she lives, he will be vulnerable. Then it is not Jormag who wants to attack Primordius, it is Primordius who wants to attack Jormag and kill him ^^

    And if Jormag has the ability to travel in the Mists (as Kralkatorrik could after eating Balthazar's magic) it means that Kralaktorrik's magic was released in Lines of Force when he died.

    Remember that Taimi said that the closer a dragon is, the more it absorbs the other dragon's magic compared to the more distant ones. And when Kralkatorrik died, after Aurene it was Primordius the closest. My guess is that this accelerated his awakening process and that he is determined to devour Jormag to eliminate his only weakness ^^

    Moreover, the logo of the Living World often takes the color of the dragons (season 1 and 2 black in relation to Zhaitan? Season 3 green in relation to Mordremoth? Season 4 purple in relation to Kralkatorrik?) and the saga (or season 5 call it what you want ^^) is blue and red. Blue would represent Jormag but red? Primordius?

    Then I saw this Thermal Conduit also on the new map, you can hear rumbles while staying a little bit on the place. The concern is the Fire Imps and Fire Effigies that may reveal it's more related to the Legion of Flame.

    To be honest I don't think Jormag really "fears" anything. I think the "threat on the horizon" could be Primordus, or something else entirely, but I think Jormag will be the one to attract its attention/provoke it. Jormag never corrupts anything without it giving in, but that doesn't mean it doesn't eliminate the other choices and trick its victim into thinking it's being a savior.

    I think Jormag will be the one to strike the first blow here. And Aurene mentioned that Jormag was moving through Tyria using the mists but didn't seem to understand why. Perhaps it's already provoking Primordus.

    I wondered why in another thread Jormag would do this and move from its current spot, but it makes sense if the destination is just to provoke Primo, and potentially lure it back to us who (as the commander's perspective) will be non-the-wiser and just assume that Primordus is making a move. So, less about fear of Primordus awakening and more faking fear entrapping us in an alliance and eliminating her weakness. This seems like a sneaky way to get us involved and by extension Aurene.

    The bigger question is what will happen as a result. Will we kill Primordus? Will they kill each other? Will we just kill Jormag? Would Aurene survive absorbing both magics if they were to both die? If they both were to die how much time would we have to find replacements?

    It's also possible that we could take a step back, be side-tracked to Cantha as Jormag and Primordus wage war on each other, knowing that we need to be prepared.

    (Another possibility is that Jormag and Primordus are already secretly aligned and playing a game against us and Aurene, and the blue and red in the logo isn't so much a clashing as much as it is a blending/pairing representing a truce/alliance.)

    After all, we know Primordus and Jormag are each other's weaknesses, but do we know why? What happens if one dies? Won't another dragon or all other dragons potentially absorb whatever trait causes them to be their weakness? So by eliminating this ONE elder dragon, aren't you potentially creating the potential for more to exploit you?

    And in terms of cycles, Tyria would be forced into a heating/thawing cycle that balances itself out with neither dragon really having to go anywhere near each other.

  • The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bast.7253 said:

    @Kalythsu.8350 said:
    Jormag wants to preserve life and Tyria. But what about Primordius. My theory is that Primordius is the enemy Jormag fears.

    Why? I think that after the events of episode 5 of season 3, Primordius realized that Jormag is his weak point and by the time she lives, he will be vulnerable. Then it is not Jormag who wants to attack Primordius, it is Primordius who wants to attack Jormag and kill him ^^

    And if Jormag has the ability to travel in the Mists (as Kralkatorrik could after eating Balthazar's magic) it means that Kralaktorrik's magic was released in Lines of Force when he died.

    Remember that Taimi said that the closer a dragon is, the more it absorbs the other dragon's magic compared to the more distant ones. And when Kralkatorrik died, after Aurene it was Primordius the closest. My guess is that this accelerated his awakening process and that he is determined to devour Jormag to eliminate his only weakness ^^

    Moreover, the logo of the Living World often takes the color of the dragons (season 1 and 2 black in relation to Zhaitan? Season 3 green in relation to Mordremoth? Season 4 purple in relation to Kralkatorrik?) and the saga (or season 5 call it what you want ^^) is blue and red. Blue would represent Jormag but red? Primordius?

    Then I saw this Thermal Conduit also on the new map, you can hear rumbles while staying a little bit on the place. The concern is the Fire Imps and Fire Effigies that may reveal it's more related to the Legion of Flame.

    To be honest I don't think Jormag really "fears" anything. I think the "threat on the horizon" could be Primordus, or something else entirely, but I think Jormag will be the one to attract its attention/provoke it. Jormag never corrupts anything without it giving in, but that doesn't mean it doesn't eliminate the other choices and trick its victim into thinking it's being a savior.

    I think Jormag will be the one to strike the first blow here. And Aurene mentioned that Jormag was moving through Tyria using the mists but didn't seem to understand why. Perhaps it's already provoking Primordus.

    I wondered why in another thread Jormag would do this and move from its current spot, but it makes sense if the destination is just to provoke Primo, and potentially lure it back to us who (as the commander's perspective) will be non-the-wiser and just assume that Primordus is making a move. So, less about fear of Primordus awakening and more faking fear entrapping us in an alliance and eliminating her weakness. This seems like a sneaky way to get us involved and by extension Aurene.

    The bigger question is what will happen as a result. Will we kill Primordus? Will they kill each other? Will we just kill Jormag? Would Aurene survive absorbing both magics if they were to both die? If they both were to die how much time would we have to find replacements?

    It's also possible that we could take a step back, be side-tracked to Cantha as Jormag and Primordus wage war on each other, knowing that we need to be prepared.

    (Another possibility is that Jormag and Primordus are already secretly aligned and playing a game against us and Aurene, and the blue and red in the logo isn't so much a clashing as much as it is a blending/pairing representing a truce/alliance.)

    After all, we know Primordus and Jormag are each other's weaknesses, but do we know why? What happens if one dies? Won't another dragon or all other dragons potentially absorb whatever trait causes them to be their weakness? So by eliminating this ONE elder dragon, aren't you potentially creating the potential for more to exploit you?

    And in terms of cycles, Tyria would be forced into a heating/thawing cycle that balances itself out with neither dragon really having to go anywhere near each other.

    When Jormag absorbs primordus it's left without weaknesses and can at any point in time just turn become full Zhaitan on everybody.

  • The wait is long. I want to know who Jormag's enemy is. I think Primordus but we don't really know if it's him or not.

  • I feel we are all underestimating Primordus. Remember even when he was asleep he was starting his take over by releasing the Destroyers in the depths of Tyria in gw1. We have no idea how long he was active before the gw1 players got involved. We know that the transformation of the Dwarves was a way to quell the spread. In gw2 while Jormag and Kralk had areas they controlled Primordus was able to send his minions as far south as The Desert Highlands. We know from lore there is a vast tunnel network under Tyria. I would not be surprised if in EOD we fight them at some point. I think that while Jormag is more intelligent Primordus has the advantage of numbers. I don't think it will be tricked and killed so easily. Remember we have seen his Champion Megadesroyer in Mount Malestrom and the fire islands. Im just saying don't count out him out yet

  • @The Ace.9105 said:
    Kinda obvious plot tbh. I have no idea why the player character isn't even remembering that primordus is the weakness of Jormag.

    whatever happens he won't lose the weakness of, "Getting punched by anyone with plot armor."

  • @Kalythsu.8350 said:
    The wait is long. I want to know who Jormag's enemy is. I think Primordus but we don't really know if it's him or not.

    I was also suspicious and hesitant to place an opinion on this, but then I found out about that Shards of Jormag achievement whose description goes like "Long ago, Primordus struck Jormag in battle and littered the Drizzlewood Coast in shards." That at least mostly confirms Primordus is Jormag's enemy, right?

  • @Morena.4567 said:

    @Kalythsu.8350 said:
    The wait is long. I want to know who Jormag's enemy is. I think Primordus but we don't really know if it's him or not.

    I was also suspicious and hesitant to place an opinion on this, but then I found out about that Shards of Jormag achievement whose description goes like "Long ago, Primordus struck Jormag in battle and littered the Drizzlewood Coast in shards." That at least mostly confirms Primordus is Jormag's enemy, right?

    Yes, I saw that too. :) Let's say it's another proof that Jormag's enemy could be Primordius.

  • @Morena.4567 said:

    @Kalythsu.8350 said:
    The wait is long. I want to know who Jormag's enemy is. I think Primordus but we don't really know if it's him or not.

    I was also suspicious and hesitant to place an opinion on this, but then I found out about that Shards of Jormag achievement whose description goes like "Long ago, Primordus struck Jormag in battle and littered the Drizzlewood Coast in shards." That at least mostly confirms Primordus is Jormag's enemy, right?

    It's more of evidence to say "Primordus' enemy is Jormag", but just because Primordus attacked Jormag doesn't mean Jormag wants revenge or views Primordus as an enemy.

    Besides, for all the mystery about this "threat on the horizon", I really hope that it's something more than just Primordus because its Jormag's opposite as firmly established in Season 3. I mean, that's not a mystery, we've known about it for a few years now. So why treat it as such?

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I still don't understand why everyone assumes that killing Primordus means that Jormag is free from that weakness? Why wouldn't Jormag just be vulnerable to the multiple other dragons that absorb his domains when he gets defeated?

    Then again I don't understand how Mordremoth was able to presumably use death magic from Zhaitan given that they were opposites. You'd think that absorbing it would be more harmful than beneficial but none of this really seems to make a ton of sense.

    I mean all that with the unstable abomination and all. You'd think similar would happen to Jormag too if it absorbed something from Primordus.

    I don't know, at the very least it doesn't seem like Jormag would be free from that vulnerability and it's not really something we've seen before because none of the other dragons assaulted Mordremoth with Death magic.

    I know a lot of people don't want to see it because they're afraid of Aurene becoming a deux ex dragon again, but I'd really like to know/see other spectrums of Aurene's magic. So far all it seems like all we've really seen is presumably plant and crystal. (Maybe mind? Or was that just because of her being a crystal dragon?) Have we ever seen anything involving Zhaitain's magic?

    It feels like she could play a more significant role in the franchise without necessarily impacting the player character, like cleansing Orr or rebranding/healing the current brand or cleansing/healing some of the unchained risen in Orr. Or even branding Taimi as a way of freeing her from her condition.

    I'd really hope for a future living season that isn't some strictly linear story like Icebrood has been that allows the team to dive into plots like this, Malyck, and the numerous others sitting on the shelf. Something that allows us to see an actual LIVING world that's changing, (even if it's new maps in familiar regions).

    For that matter they could, at some point, create Visions of the Past around them but it seems Visions will be yet another feature that quickly get scrapped and only exist in this season to introduce us to the next episodes. So many devs and they always seem like there is so little content, but I guess for free content there can't be too high of expectations.

    Anyway, I'd have to agree with Konig about the threat on the horizon being more than Primordus. I originally anticipated it being more than just another elder dragon in general. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it WAS Primordus in the end and he was provoked by Jormag in the first place.

    I had hopes that the threat would be something more sinister and alien, perhaps something that was stirred from the recent activity in the mists. Demons, gods, whatever. Some foreign power that we haven't really experienced. But I don't think that's within their scope of the franchise and may not be until the dragons are dealt with. I personally enjoy the elder dragons and the mystery behind them but I can definitely see the appeal in branching out and exploring other things. The voice in Deepstone, the demons in Bastion, some origin story about some of the original races like the Seers/Mursaat, the Obelisks of the Krait, etc.

    So much story in this game and it feels like, at least at the current pace and how linear and focused this saga has been alone, we'll probably never explore it.