Explosive entrance is the issue, NOT grenades

[Vancho.8750]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova

.It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.Ok so i'm wrong on this one, it explodes on dodge, but it is still means dodge everything holo does, and dodging basic attacks is generally not good use of dodge.It hits as hard as a weapon skill. Why is engi so special to get its on dodge trait with pve scaling while everything else is nerfed.

[Kodama.6453]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova

.It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.Ok so i'm wrong on this one, it explodes on dodge, but it is still means dodge everything holo does, and dodging basic attacks is generally not good use of dodge.It hits as hard as a weapon skill. Why is engi so special to get its on dodge trait with pve scaling while everything else is nerfed.

As I already mentioned above: telegraphing.

Explosive entrance is fairly telegraphed and delayed, since you have to dodge and then perform an attack afterwards. Other dodge traits and traits which trigger a damage effect usually don't give you so much time to react to them.

Holosmith itself even has an example of this: the grandmaster trait thermal release valve deals pretty insignificant damage. Because it triggers on the dodge itself, which leaves less time to react to it.

[Vancho.8750]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Another issue is that EE is unavoidable in a fight, the battle starts the holo hits for 3 to 5 k from EE and another attack, dodges resets EE you dodge the next attack it misses but after that the next attack that hits applies EE + bonus effect, the holo dodges again and that is 9 to 15k unavoidable damage in quick succession.So if they insist it should work like that it should have bad power coefficients and base damage like

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova

.It could have been really simple on dodge trait, like you throw some grenades when you dodge with low damage in PVP(High in PVE) and they activate some passives in the traitline.

If you dodge attack that applies EE, it will be dodged and be used up.Ok so i'm wrong on this one, it explodes on dodge, but it is still means dodge everything holo does, and dodging basic attacks is generally not good use of dodge.It hits as hard as a weapon skill. Why is engi so special to get its on dodge trait with pve scaling while everything else is nerfed.

As I already mentioned above: telegraphing.

Explosive entrance is fairly telegraphed and delayed, since you have to dodge and then perform an attack afterwards. Other dodge traits and traits which trigger a damage effect usually don't give you so much time to react to them.

Holosmith itself even has an example of this: the grandmaster trait thermal release valve deals pretty insignificant damage. Because it triggers on the dodge itself, which leaves less time to react to it.Any attack afterwards, which makes it way better then almost all on dodge traits. This one is also telegraphed

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bound

it got the reduction.EE is a on dodge trait but it is also a proc trait, both of those types of passive attacks got nerfed heavily, or we are ok with passive proc traits.

[Avatar.3568]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Please stop nerfing grenades and nerf the core issue, explosive entrance. You are going to eventually nerf explosive entrance and then "Forget" you nerfed every grenade in PvP creating a completely unusable kit in PvP/WvW.

Same kind of problem they did when they nerfed Core Ranger. They kept nerfing pet coefficients for some reason, instead of nerfing the obvious problem which was Marksmanship/Maul modifiers that granted: +50% +50% +25%. All that did was cause problems for pet damage on builds that did not use Marksmanship, especially for Druid, who now has a -20% to all pet attributes. The better answer would have been to nerf Marsk from the get go, which was largely responsible for pet 1HKOs or 2shots, as well as Ranger being able to combo up those mods for 12k+ Mauls & WIs.

I dunno what they're thinking on some of these balance decisions tbh.

you act as if everything would have been fine lol, pets to this day are still kitten. if at any point in time classes lose some ability to recover health we will be having the same problem we had before. Play build without insane amounts of healing and tell me how it is to fight ranger that doesnt hit a single skill and wins by default anyways.You are on the clock after all.

This is why ranger effortlessly wins every 1v1 regardless of either players skill. You can literally never hit a single attack and win as ranger. When I played mesmer a bit, I literally lost to rangers 1v1 without them ever hitting me once, lol.

That tells much about you

[wasss.1208]

@Kodama.6453 said:It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

Honestly, you shouldn't be forced to use a defensive ability, just because you forced your enemy on defensive. This is why IH was stupid, this is why EE atm is stupid. Sadly power core is dependant on this damage, as it is getting nerfed patch after patch, because of holo. Holo on the other hand would be still doing decent damage, if this was removed.

[Shiyo.3578]

@wasss.1208 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

Honestly, you shouldn't be forced to use a defensive ability, just because you forced your enemy on defensive. This is why IH was stupid, this is why EE atm is stupid. Sadly power core is dependant on this damage, as it is getting nerfed patch after patch, because of holo. Holo on the other hand would be still doing decent damage, if this was removed.

Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

[Kodama.6453]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@wasss.1208 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

Honestly, you shouldn't be forced to use a defensive ability, just because you forced your enemy on defensive. This is why IH was stupid, this is why EE atm is stupid. Sadly power core is dependant on this damage, as it is getting nerfed patch after patch, because of holo. Holo on the other hand would be still doing decent damage, if this was removed.

Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

Then we should improve core engi's condition damage... alotWe just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

What even is the point of pistol auto attack dealing small power damage in AoE while not spreading the bleed in the same AoE radius, btw?

[Shiyo.3578]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@wasss.1208 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:It is telegraphed. If the engineer is dodging, then you know that you have to avoid the next attack to prevent explosive entrance.That is inherent counterplay. Unlike many other attacks triggered by traits, this is not instant (like attacks for entering shroud, for example).The engineer has to perform a dodge roll and then attack, that gives you enough time to react accordingly.

Honestly, you shouldn't be forced to use a defensive ability, just because you forced your enemy on defensive. This is why IH was stupid, this is why EE atm is stupid. Sadly power core is dependant on this damage, as it is getting nerfed patch after patch, because of holo. Holo on the other hand would be still doing decent damage, if this was removed.

Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

Then we should improve core engi's condition damage...

alot

We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

What even is the point of pistol auto attack dealing small

power

damage in AoE while not spreading the bleed in the same AoE radius, btw?

What power focused utils? you generally just run 2 defensive utils + a kit as any build don't you? Either way my point was that base power eng is so weak and irrelevant that it can't be used to defend nerfing holosmith and condi is the only real use base eng has right now(regardless of whether or not it's too weak)

[Deniara Devious.3948]

@"Kodama.6453" said:

Minor detail, but holosmith doesn't provide any stability whatsoever. No utility skills, no weapon skills, no traits..... absolutely nothing from holosmith gives stability.

My mistake. Holosmith trait called "Crystal Configuration: Eclipse" used to give stability with corona burst, but that was changed in Feb 2020. The trait is still good and gives ~700-1000 barrier per hit.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Configuration:_Eclipse

[Deniara Devious.3948]

@Kodama.6453 said:

Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

Then we should improve core engi's condition damage...

alot

We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

I feel core engineer should be true jack of all trades and master of none. So it should NOT be forced to be condition only, but working with direct damage, hybrid e.g. celestial or rampager and full condition. Core engineer should have good (but not the best!) power burst and sustained power. Currently rifle just hits like wet noodle. Considering the trait offs e.g. rifle #1 is single target in most situations (piercing), rifle #2 is slow speed 1 target and rifle #4 does basically no damage and causes self knockback, it is easy to see why core engineer is in trouble. Just compare that with holosmith photo forge.

I agree that firearms trait line is currently bad, but so is inventions and tools as well. Even the explosives trait line has major design mistakes/issues e.g. grenadier trait gives a useless grenade barrage after performing a healing skill. In reality all or almost all of the grenades will miss, even if you are inside enemy mob/zerg (in other game modes). Instead if should give grenades higher range e.g. 1200 (grenades used to be 1500 range when traited). Another issue is Aim-Assisted Rocket, which has 450 minimum range requirement. This makes it useless with bombs and even with grenades and their slow projectile speed and mere 900 range it is very situational. It works the best in pve and with mortar. Big boomer is grandmaster trait, but heals only about 120-130 hp/second with celestial stats. That is even less healing than Backpack Regenerator, which is major trait in alchemy line.

[voltaicbore.8012]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

This is why ranger effortlessly wins every 1v1 regardless of either players skill. You can literally never hit a single attack and win as ranger. When I played mesmer a bit, I literally lost to rangers 1v1 without them ever hitting me once, lol.

... Have you played ranger in spvp, like, ever? I suggest you try to let your pet carry you. Hint: not gonna happen.

If you're dying to pet attacks only, that means you're literally no better than a golem. To this day, the vast majority of pets whiff 100% of their attacks on the special forces training golem set to walk in a circle at an unchanging speed.

[Vancho.8750]

@Deniara Devious.3948 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

Then we should improve core engi's condition damage...

alot

We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

I feel core engineer should be true jack of all trades and master of none. So it should NOT be forced to be condition only, but working with direct damage, hybrid e.g. celestial or rampager and full condition. Core engineer should have good (but not the best!) power burst and sustained power. Currently rifle just hits like wet noodle. Considering the trait offs e.g. rifle #1 is single target in most situations (piercing), rifle #2 is slow speed 1 target and rifle #4 does basically no damage and causes self knockback, it is easy to see why core engineer is in trouble. Just compare that with holosmith photo forge.

I agree that firearms trait line is currently bad, but so is inventions and tools as well. Even the explosives trait line has major design mistakes/issues e.g. grenadier trait gives a useless grenade barrage after performing a healing skill. In reality all or almost all of the grenades will miss, even if you are inside enemy mob/zerg (in other game modes). Instead if should give grenades higher range e.g. 1200 (grenades used to be 1500 range when traited). Another issue is Aim-Assisted Rocket, which has 450 minimum range requirement. This makes it useless with bombs and even with grenades and their slow projectile speed and mere 900 range it is very situational. It works the best in pve and with mortar. Big boomer is grandmaster trait, but heals only about 120-130 hp/second with celestial stats. That is even less healing than Backpack Regenerator, which is major trait in alchemy line.Core should get another one hand option. probably mace since how the fuck engineer doesn't know how to use a hammer is beyond me.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Deniara Devious.3948 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:

Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

Then we should improve core engi's condition damage...

alot

We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

I feel core engineer should be true jack of all trades and master of none. So it should NOT be forced to be condition only, but working with direct damage, hybrid e.g. celestial or rampager and full condition. Core engineer should have good (but not the best!) power burst and sustained power. Currently rifle just hits like wet noodle. Considering the trait offs e.g. rifle #1 is single target in most situations (piercing), rifle #2 is slow speed 1 target and rifle #4 does basically no damage and causes self knockback, it is easy to see why core engineer is in trouble. Just compare that with holosmith photo forge.

I agree that firearms trait line is currently bad, but so is inventions and tools as well. Even the explosives trait line has major design mistakes/issues e.g. grenadier trait gives a useless grenade barrage after performing a healing skill. In reality all or almost all of the grenades will miss, even if you are inside enemy mob/zerg (in other game modes). Instead if should give grenades higher range e.g. 1200 (grenades used to be 1500 range when traited). Another issue is Aim-Assisted Rocket, which has 450 minimum range requirement. This makes it useless with bombs and even with grenades and their slow projectile speed and mere 900 range it is very situational. It works the best in pve and with mortar. Big boomer is grandmaster trait, but heals only about 120-130 hp/second with celestial stats. That is even less healing than Backpack Regenerator, which is major trait in alchemy line.Core should get another one hand option. probably mace since how the kitten engineer doesn't know how to use a hammer is beyond me.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tool_Kit this is it's hammer basically

[Vancho.8750]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Deniara Devious.3948 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:

Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

Then we should improve core engi's condition damage...

alot

We just have 1 single trait line for condition damage, firearms, and it isn't really good at it.Then we are also lacking utility skills to deal condition damage, most utility skills from core engi are power damage focused.Also mainhand pistol is still pretty bad and needs improvement. And not just 1 more stack poison here and 2 seconds more bleed there.

I feel core engineer should be true jack of all trades and master of none. So it should NOT be forced to be condition only, but working with direct damage, hybrid e.g. celestial or rampager and full condition. Core engineer should have good (but not the best!) power burst and sustained power. Currently rifle just hits like wet noodle. Considering the trait offs e.g. rifle #1 is single target in most situations (piercing), rifle #2 is slow speed 1 target and rifle #4 does basically no damage and causes self knockback, it is easy to see why core engineer is in trouble. Just compare that with holosmith photo forge.

I agree that firearms trait line is currently bad, but so is inventions and tools as well. Even the explosives trait line has major design mistakes/issues e.g. grenadier trait gives a useless grenade barrage after performing a healing skill. In reality all or almost all of the grenades will miss, even if you are inside enemy mob/zerg (in other game modes). Instead if should give grenades higher range e.g. 1200 (grenades used to be 1500 range when traited). Another issue is Aim-Assisted Rocket, which has 450 minimum range requirement. This makes it useless with bombs and even with grenades and their slow projectile speed and mere 900 range it is very situational. It works the best in pve and with mortar. Big boomer is grandmaster trait, but heals only about 120-130 hp/second with celestial stats. That is even less healing than Backpack Regenerator, which is major trait in alchemy line.Core should get another one hand option. probably mace since how the kitten engineer doesn't know how to use a hammer is beyond me.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tool_Kit

this is it's hammer basicallyYes but it is a toolkit and Flamethrower, Elexir Gun and the Morter Kit are basically different kinds of "rifle" for GW2 at least.I think they are probably keeping the mace for the next elite speck though.

[wasss.1208]

@"Shiyo.3578" said:

Power base eng is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to defend base power traits that are overpowered like EE. Base eng is for condi builds only.

You can't just shove a spec under the rug, calling it irrelevant. In the a perfect world all 27 specs has at least 1 viable build. Core engi has none, and that is why half of the engi topics going on are pointing out that core shouldn't be neutered, when holo only things can be nerfed. Of course EE hits hard... but what doesn't when the user has permanent ~22 might?Also, if you nerf any core lines, you have to compensate it elsewhere. You could say "compensation isn't needed, that is the point of nerf", which is fair when you want to shave an overperforming spec, but doesn't make sense when you cause collateral damage to severely underperforming specs.

Either way my point was that base power eng is so weak and irrelevant that it can't be used to defend nerfing holosmith and condi is the only real use base eng has right now(regardless of whether or not it's too weak)

That logic is pretty flawed. There are at least a half dozen of traits, skills, interactions, that can be nerfed on holo, but the current balance hits core instead. So it becomes irrelevant because it is weak, but it is weak, because it gets nerfed, because it is irrelevant... Like the latest two patches that reduced 'nade kits damage. Core relies on that kit to do damage, since other kits are flawed in different ways, and because weapons got overnerfed, too.