The Condition Battle

[Ghos.1326]

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont play PvP but in WvW 9 out of 10 players run power builds. Condi builds have a place in one spot and and one spot only - 1v1. Thats it. And even in 1v1, there are many competetive power builds that can beat them. As soon as you go over that, the strength of stacking power is

vastly

more overwhelming than stacking condi and once you reach about 3-4 a single minstrel healer will make any enemy condi effectivly worthless.

Yet players get so salty when they loose that 1v1 and cry about the condi dominance.

Easily relatable, as an example when you fight a Warrior running Cleansing Ire and Brawlers recovery as a Condition Revenant, their class flow alone simply chews through the entire design offense and defense of it by just playing. Clean the torment, clean the weakness, you have to be really aware of their traits to win encounters.

I'd argue that's an issue with how strong those specific traits are, and not how weak conditions are. Because they're not weak.Also, applying a consistent amount of one particular condition is also not weak. it's just as strong as applying 4-5 stacks of 2-3 other kinds of conditions (besides burn).

[Ghos.1326]

@Shao.7236 said:Dealing with conditions is a mechanic of it's own and fact of the matter is, if you can't bear the idea of having to trade your health for the peak of the application before cleansing, you are doing it wrong.

It's fairly common to get people panic cleansing at a mere small stack of burn instead of letting go by itself.

Take for example Tainted Shackles from Necromancer, should players only clear after the skill is completed and not before, to minimize damage even more you can stand still also and expect a fear because the player wants you to move for damage, make it so you can clear all at once.

This is a true statement, though i don't think it fits with what i'm talking about here.Can you elaborate a bit on the argument for this?

[Ghos.1326]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Oh look! Could this be another "I got outplayed by a condi build because why bother slotting cleanses" thread?

dont worry these people use mostly meta builds so they have cleanse/resist, they just are incapable of using it properly

I don't use a meta build and I do relatively well using the build I created years ago.It was a good attempt.

first of all I said mostly which means not all.sec of all if you are using a build that you made years ago mb just mb your build is at fault and not entire condition system

Now wait a minute here. you were just talking about how most people use meta builds and are just incapable of using the cleanses they have slotted in for conditions, but then say my build is at fault, although i clearly said i do relatively well with said build and it has condition cleanses, both passive and active, in it?As well, since when was this thread ever me complaining about conditions? it was started to offer a suggestion towards a solution to better balance.You need more help understanding or are you just not salvageable at this point?

[Ghos.1326]

@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont play PvP but in WvW 9 out of 10 players run power builds. Condi builds have a place in one spot and and one spot only - 1v1. Thats it. And even in 1v1, there are many competetive power builds that can beat them. As soon as you go over that, the strength of stacking power is vastly more overwhelming than stacking condi and once you reach about 3-4 a single minstrel healer will make any enemy condi effectivly worthless.

Yet players get so salty when they loose that 1v1 and cry about the condi dominance.

From last I remember, firebrand (focuses on support heavily and on condition pressure secondary) and scourge (condition damage scourge using shades and massive AOE condition attacks) was the meta for a long time, if not still to this day. soooo not sure where you get that condition builds are only good for 1v1 scenarios (the specific scourge build was and is a teamfighting based build that relied on a support to keep it healthy).

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Oh look! Could this be another "I got outplayed by a condi build because why bother slotting cleanses" thread?

dont worry these people use mostly meta builds so they have cleanse/resist, they just are incapable of using it properly

I don't use a meta build and I do relatively well using the build I created years ago.It was a good attempt.

first of all I said mostly which means not all.sec of all if you are using a build that you made years ago mb just mb your build is at fault and not entire condition system

Now wait a minute here. you were just talking about how most people use meta builds and are just incapable of using the cleanses they have slotted in for conditions, but then say my build is at fault, although i clearly said i do relatively well with said build and it has condition cleanses, both passive and active, in it?As well, since when was this thread ever me complaining about conditions? it was started to offer a suggestion towards a solution to better balance.You need more help understanding or are you just not salvageable at this point?

yeat again, I said maybe. it means that it MIGHT BE, doesnt mean that 100% is. reading and comprehending fam

[Bazsi.2734]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison.

What I am suggesting is that you go back and reread the post detailing why they changed that in the first place. The condition damage system is way better now compared to what it was before. I used to nolife all sorts of endgame for years when this game was young, and among all 8 classes with multiple ascended armor sets on each, not one of my characters had gear with condition damage on it. It was useless. It took the release of HoT, raiding, and the condition rework to change berserker meta.

Basically, you become a tanky bursting machine using a mechanic (conditions) that can not be directly countered like direct damage can be.

I swear I don't want to sound rude... but holy cow, this makes you look like you have no knowledge about the basic mechanics of this game. Resistance, vitality amulets, cleanses, condition transfers, condi to boon conversion. Are none of them direct enough?

These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state...

You are joking right? Imagine condi-thief, a build that kills you by stacking poison, having its 15+ poison stack burst reduced to one. Same with burn guardian, or condirev and torment. You might be using "balanced" to mean something else however... my guess is "brutally murdered and repeatedly mutilated corpse".

What is up with the forums lately? Posts asking for the deletion of condition damage are taking over. Are we getting raided by a group of trolls or something?

You literally sound like an idiot. A really angry one at that. Yet you speak about no knowledge of mechanics and such.Seems you also couldn't read too much. I also suggested putting something in to compensate for guardian losing a lot of its burst damage from the massive amount of burn stacks they put onto players at one time, which would still make it a slow ramping up condition play style. I'd suggest reading before you start talking out like you're some kind of relevant source of information for the game and its balance.Until you do these things, you won't be getting a different type of response. I don't respond to the brain dead.

Oh cool. I sucsessfully resisted the urge to report. Have fun with your thread. :)

[Dantheman.3589]

Conditions are an interesting mechanic as they have mechanics of it that can punish players, but and experienced player can avoid it. You need to think of it on a level of depth as a more counter damage type as it will only do anything if the opponent doesn’t use cds well, but if it does hit it ignores damage mitigation. So it’s bursty and yet not bursty which imo makes it fairly unique to games in general, but I think it’s far from superior on a deep level or at least after the rework. Because of this it’s almost a l2p issue in top teir play, but insanely op to new players.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Dantheman.3589 said:,but insanely op to new players.This is because the game does nothing to very little at all to teach players about conditions.

PvE is also very power heavy so people never learn. Every time Anet have tried to put condi heavy mobs in people complain because they need to start thinking about things outside what they are used to.

There is also a certain critical mass of players where conditions become completely irrelevant.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont play PvP but in WvW 9 out of 10 players run power builds. Condi builds have a place in one spot and and one spot only - 1v1. Thats it. And even in 1v1, there are many competetive power builds that can beat them. As soon as you go over that, the strength of stacking power is

vastly

more overwhelming than stacking condi and once you reach about 3-4 a single minstrel healer will make any enemy condi effectivly worthless.

Yet players get so salty when they loose that 1v1 and cry about the condi dominance.

Easily relatable, as an example when you fight a Warrior running Cleansing Ire and Brawlers recovery as a Condition Revenant, their class flow alone simply chews through the entire design offense and defense of it by just playing. Clean the torment, clean the weakness, you have to be really aware of their traits to win encounters.

I'd argue that's an issue with how strong those specific traits are, and not how weak conditions are. Because they're not weak.Also, applying a consistent amount of one particular condition is also not weak. it's just as strong as applying 4-5 stacks of 2-3 other kinds of conditions (besides burn).

No, it isn't because it's easier to cleanse a single condition build like burn guardian as long as you don't panic cleanse and potato your way into the ground.

[Vancho.8750]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:I dont play PvP but in WvW 9 out of 10 players run power builds. Condi builds have a place in one spot and and one spot only - 1v1. Thats it. And even in 1v1, there are many competetive power builds that can beat them. As soon as you go over that, the strength of stacking power is

vastly

more overwhelming than stacking condi and once you reach about 3-4 a single minstrel healer will make any enemy condi effectivly worthless.

Yet players get so salty when they loose that 1v1 and cry about the condi dominance.

Easily relatable, as an example when you fight a Warrior running Cleansing Ire and Brawlers recovery as a Condition Revenant, their class flow alone simply chews through the entire design offense and defense of it by just playing. Clean the torment, clean the weakness, you have to be really aware of their traits to win encounters.

I'd argue that's an issue with how strong those specific traits are, and not how weak conditions are. Because they're not weak.Also, applying a consistent amount of one particular condition is also not weak. it's just as strong as applying 4-5 stacks of 2-3 other kinds of conditions (besides burn).

No, it isn't because it's easier to cleanse a single condition build like burn guardian as long as you don't panic cleanse and potato your way into the ground.I think it is more of TTK issue with it now, before the big patch it usually died before the condition cleanses were out, but now it has easier time resetting, and it can reach critical mass consistently. Also the current meta sidenoder is condition rev, core condi necro is meta and even after the revert scourge is back and more annoying then ever, so any type of single conditions build will work ,since the rest of the team has enough cover conditions and ways to burn condition cleanses.It was probably kept away by condi rev since it could just let the burn guard stack its burning and then copy it to him, but since the last patch that came with a nerf to rev i keep seeing more burn guardians.Is still preferable to run Holo as a "roamer"(we know its good in any role), but if there are changes to it on a later date we will see more guardians taking the spot.

[ollbirtan.2915]

Dying to a burning guardian....This shouldn't happen anywhere above g+....

[Ghos.1326]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont play PvP but in WvW 9 out of 10 players run power builds. Condi builds have a place in one spot and and one spot only - 1v1. Thats it. And even in 1v1, there are many competetive power builds that can beat them. As soon as you go over that, the strength of stacking power is

vastly

more overwhelming than stacking condi and once you reach about 3-4 a single minstrel healer will make any enemy condi effectivly worthless.

Yet players get so salty when they loose that 1v1 and cry about the condi dominance.

Easily relatable, as an example when you fight a Warrior running Cleansing Ire and Brawlers recovery as a Condition Revenant, their class flow alone simply chews through the entire design offense and defense of it by just playing. Clean the torment, clean the weakness, you have to be really aware of their traits to win encounters.

I'd argue that's an issue with how strong those specific traits are, and not how weak conditions are. Because they're not weak.Also, applying a consistent amount of one particular condition is also not weak. it's just as strong as applying 4-5 stacks of 2-3 other kinds of conditions (besides burn).

No, it isn't because it's easier to cleanse a single condition build like burn guardian as long as you don't panic cleanse and potato your way into the ground.

This is also false. if you can consistently place 4-5 stacks of one specific condition on an enemy all the time, then it doesn't matter how many clears you have, you'll eventually run out of those clears and die. Whether you panic cleared or not.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont play PvP but in WvW 9 out of 10 players run power builds. Condi builds have a place in one spot and and one spot only - 1v1. Thats it. And even in 1v1, there are many competetive power builds that can beat them. As soon as you go over that, the strength of stacking power is

vastly

more overwhelming than stacking condi and once you reach about 3-4 a single minstrel healer will make any enemy condi effectivly worthless.

Yet players get so salty when they loose that 1v1 and cry about the condi dominance.

Easily relatable, as an example when you fight a Warrior running Cleansing Ire and Brawlers recovery as a Condition Revenant, their class flow alone simply chews through the entire design offense and defense of it by just playing. Clean the torment, clean the weakness, you have to be really aware of their traits to win encounters.

I'd argue that's an issue with how strong those specific traits are, and not how weak conditions are. Because they're not weak.Also, applying a consistent amount of one particular condition is also not weak. it's just as strong as applying 4-5 stacks of 2-3 other kinds of conditions (besides burn).

No, it isn't because it's easier to cleanse a single condition build like burn guardian as long as you don't panic cleanse and potato your way into the ground.

This is also false. if you can consistently place 4-5 stacks of one specific condition on an enemy all the time, then it doesn't matter how many clears you have, you'll eventually run out of those clears and die. Whether you panic cleared or not.

Good thing hyperbole isn't reality.

[Ghos.1326]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont play PvP but in WvW 9 out of 10 players run power builds. Condi builds have a place in one spot and and one spot only - 1v1. Thats it. And even in 1v1, there are many competetive power builds that can beat them. As soon as you go over that, the strength of stacking power is

vastly

more overwhelming than stacking condi and once you reach about 3-4 a single minstrel healer will make any enemy condi effectivly worthless.

Yet players get so salty when they loose that 1v1 and cry about the condi dominance.

Easily relatable, as an example when you fight a Warrior running Cleansing Ire and Brawlers recovery as a Condition Revenant, their class flow alone simply chews through the entire design offense and defense of it by just playing. Clean the torment, clean the weakness, you have to be really aware of their traits to win encounters.

I'd argue that's an issue with how strong those specific traits are, and not how weak conditions are. Because they're not weak.Also, applying a consistent amount of one particular condition is also not weak. it's just as strong as applying 4-5 stacks of 2-3 other kinds of conditions (besides burn).

No, it isn't because it's easier to cleanse a single condition build like burn guardian as long as you don't panic cleanse and potato your way into the ground.

This is also false. if you can consistently place 4-5 stacks of one specific condition on an enemy all the time, then it doesn't matter how many clears you have, you'll eventually run out of those clears and die. Whether you panic cleared or not.

Good thing hyperbole isn't reality.

Good thing what I just laid out is a reality.

[Oakendale.2849]

Why do people want hammer trains back.

That was the most mindless time ever in this game....

[kraai.7265]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:at this point you they can kitten remove every single condition from the game, so you all people shut the kitten up about whining for once.they you will have the bunker meta that you ohhh soo desire, but who am I kidding, you people that dont bother to learn will instantly quit and people that actually give a kitten about the game will be left to deal with the kitten

OH please! give me plain bunker meta, over this piece of trash bunker condi meta we are living in. Are you really saying you prefer condi as it is? congrats, it's the first time i've read something like it in my 5 years playingn -.-

[Leonidrex.5649]

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:at this point you they can kitten remove every single condition from the game, so you all people shut the kitten up about whining for once.they you will have the bunker meta that you ohhh soo desire, but who am I kidding, you people that dont bother to learn will instantly quit and people that actually give a kitten about the game will be left to deal with the kitten

OH please! give me plain bunker meta, over this piece of trash bunker condi meta we are living in. Are you really saying you prefer condi as it is? congrats, it's the first time i've read something like it in my 5 years playingn -.-

in high ranks its power meta, power reaper, power holo, power rev, power thief, power power power power power and power on top of more and more power.the fact that cmes, burn guard shits on low ranks is unfortunate.

[Bast.7253]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:Power is fundamentally higher burst than condi, always. Your entire premise is flawed. “Burst condi” just doesn’t exist.

lol Tell that to the groups of people I killed in WvW during no down state week on my burn guard.

And technically, as someone else mentioned, you can run a high glass build of condi mirage and still dish out 20/30 stacks of confusion. (If you land it.)

Then condi core pistol/dagger thieves. Sure, it's not a flat amount of damage all at once, but it's still a very high amount of damage in a very short amount of time that creates a lot of instant pressure.

Of course if you're comparing it to Mesmer shatter or pretty much any ability from Holo right now, then no, I guess not.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Bast.7253 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:Power is fundamentally higher burst than condi, always. Your entire premise is flawed. “Burst condi” just doesn’t exist.

lol Tell that to the groups of people I killed in WvW during no down state week on my burn guard.

And technically, as someone else mentioned, you can run a high glass build of condi mirage and still dish out 20/30 stacks of confusion. (If you land it.)

Then condi core pistol/dagger thieves. Sure, it's not a flat amount of damage all at once, but it's still a very high amount of damage in a very short amount of time that creates a lot of instant pressure.

Of course if you're comparing it to Mesmer shatter or pretty much any ability from Holo right now, then no, I guess not.

its not a burst if you have to use several abilities to even take damage, if you panic like an animal its not me killing you its you killing yourself, its like me spooking you and you running into a tree, at this point who killed you? me for spooking, you from being a pussy or a tree that you run into ?

[AliamRationem.5172]

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:at this point you they can kitten remove every single condition from the game, so you all people shut the kitten up about whining for once.they you will have the bunker meta that you ohhh soo desire, but who am I kidding, you people that dont bother to learn will instantly quit and people that actually give a kitten about the game will be left to deal with the kitten

OH please! give me plain bunker meta, over this piece of trash bunker condi meta we are living in. Are you really saying you prefer condi as it is? congrats, it's the first time i've read something like it in my 5 years playingn -.-

It's a power meta right now and I don't have an issue with condi. Are you serious?

[Downstate.4697]

No one can pinpoint exactly why condi seems like cheesemode. My general thoughts is getting condi loaded with no more cleanses means you die in 3 seconds. You can have 70% of your health, but it doesnt matter anymore at that point.

Not saying condi is op because its not. Its just very frustrating going from 15k health to 0 and not being able to kite,los, or dodge it. I

[Sigmoid.7082]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Not saying condi is op because its not. Its just very frustrating going from 15k health to 0 and not being able to kite,los, or dodge it.

You had the ability to kite, Los or dodge the hits that applied the conditions? I always hate this argument.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Not saying condi is op because its not. Its just very frustrating going from 15k health to 0 and not being able to kite,los, or dodge it.

You had the ability to kite, Los or dodge the hits that applied the conditions? I always hate this argument.

I think it boils down to the fact that against power dmg, they get hit by barrage, die and think -> barrage killed me gotta dodge it.but against condi they get hit, take no damage,so they dont try to defend themselves, get hit 2-3 more times, now they are rapidly dying and think its "passive condi out of nowhere that kills them" cuz their memory of a gold fish forgot all about the hits they too ~2-3s ago already

[Redhair Solsting.6594]

Litearlly all the other competitive games player base would want a balance enviroment that every builds can have a role in it. When it comes to gw2 the player base whinning about one build only works in one mode and it should stay lol.Lucky Arenanet.

[Tazer.2157]

How can we have a power meta when there last season was condi meta and we have had no balance patches in between.