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my beef with core necro


law.9410

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I really like the play style of core condi necro but I have some issues with it which I hope to share with you today:

  1. Seemingly, developers are pushing core necro into being a tank which I feel is a mistake. The evidence of this is in the last few balance changes which buffed defensive traits but laid down heavy handed nerfs to corruptions and doom of course. Core necro is more fun as a high risk/high reward class that relies on clever, strategic use of spectral walk and wurm to stay alive. Of all classes, playing necro should test your inter-class knowledge the most, so that you know when to corrupt, and when to burst them with condis. You active defense is pretty much solely comprised of two dodges so you have to use those dodges with great care. Tank necro doesn't do any of these things, and pretty much just... exists. To make a long story short, playing a tank core necro is not fun to play and probably not fun to play against! Core necro should be the most strategic class, not a walking punching bag for Pete's sake!

  2. This is kinda similar to point 1 but here goes: the tankier necro gets, the more it relies on passive, trait based sustain instead of dodges, and mobility. This is a big no no. Once again, this is not fun to play and not fun to play against!

  3. If I had to choose between doom with cast time + fear damage and instant doom + NO fear damage, I'd pick instant doom plus NO fear damage! Necro needs instant doom to interrupt heals, it' s major part of the game plan! Is instant CC balanced? NO! of course not! but every class has MULTIPLE unfair mechanics (hello steal). The only heal you can interrupt with the new doom is the NECRO heal, oh the irony! Nerf our sustain all you want, but make us scary, I don't wanna be a walking sandbag!

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@law.9410 said:I really like the play style of core condi necro but I have some issues with it which I hope to share with you today:

  1. Seemingly, developers are pushing core necro into being a tank which I feel is a mistake. The evidence of this is in the last few balance changes which buffed defensive traits but laid down heavy handed nerfs to corruptions and doom of course. Core necro is more fun as a high risk/high reward class that relies on clever, strategic use of spectral walk and wurm to stay alive. Of all classes, playing necro should test your inter-class knowledge the most, so that you know when to corrupt, and when to burst them with condis. You active defense is pretty much solely comprised of two dodges so you have to use those dodges with great care. Tank necro doesn't do any of these things, and pretty much just... exists. To make a long story short, playing a tank core necro is not fun to play and probably not fun to play against! Core necro should be the most strategic class, not a walking punching bag for Pete's sake!

  2. This is kinda similar to point 1 but here goes: the tankier necro gets, the more it relies on passive, trait based sustain instead of dodges, and mobility. This is a big no no. Once again, this is not fun to play and not fun to play against!

  3. If I had to choose between doom with cast time + fear damage and instant doom + NO fear damage, I'd pick instant doom plus NO fear damage! Necro needs instant doom to interrupt heals, it' s major part of the game plan! Is instant CC balanced? NO! of course not! but every class has MULTIPLE unfair mechanics (hello steal). The only heal you can interrupt with the new doom is the NECRO heal, oh the irony! Nerf our sustain all you want, but make us scary, I don't wanna be a walking sandbag!I think they are pushing both core and scourge in the tank position, only Reaper is not a total brick in the meta,since it looses too much damage if it tanks up and ends up total punching bag and even then it was pushed by the patches in a more bruiser type position.

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Core necro and scourge are stat checks. You either have enough damage/cc/sustain to get them or you dont. There is some "skill" involved but its more like pressing buttons in right order of importance, since nothing is worth stowing. And as necro you are gated by cast times and not cooldowns.They made class mechanic revolving around second health bar that fills itself pretty much on its own, what a great design.Reaper is much stronger IMO the core/scourge but I find it more fun to fight against. Their mistakes are punished more and they punish your mistakes more.Its not like with core/scourge where the fight plays itself and you watch it happen half asleep.

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@Vancho.8750 said:

@law.9410 said:scourge in the tank positionNah. I played the bunkery scurg build up to top 40-ish on EU and stayed there for a dozen or so games. It more or less died the moment they nerfed signet of locust recently since that was the only thing really making blood bank worthwhile. Transfusion is just a terrible alternative these days.

The best build for scurg now is probably condi actually.

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@Aktium.9506 said:

@"law.9410" said:scourge in the tank positionNah. I played the bunkery scurg build up to top 40-ish on EU and stayed there for a dozen or so games. It more or less died the moment they nerfed signet of locust recently since that was the only thing really making blood bank worthwhile. Transfusion is just a terrible alternative these days.

The best build for scurg now is probably condi actually.I think the idea was to run scourge as a support but the moment people got whif of "i can tank up and bunker with this" they had to start nerfing stuff.I think Arenanet has real problem with executing their ideas, they imagined that they can make support necro, but when they released it it was the most powerful damage dealer in pvp(and PVE for a shortwhile). Druid was supposed to be team healer, nope sidenode bunker.I think is more of an issue that elite specks end up versatile instead of specialized at something.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@"law.9410" said:scourge in the tank positionNah. I played the bunkery scurg build up to top 40-ish on EU and stayed there for a dozen or so games. It more or less died the moment they nerfed signet of locust recently since that was the only thing really making blood bank worthwhile. Transfusion is just a terrible alternative these days.

The best build for scurg now is probably condi actually.I think the idea was to run scourge as a support but the moment people got whif of "i can tank up and bunker with this" they had to start nerfing stuff.I think Arenanet has real problem with executing their ideas, they imagined that they can make support necro, but when they released it it was the most powerful damage dealer in pvp(and PVE for a shortwhile). Druid was supposed to be team healer, nope sidenode bunker.I think is more of an issue that elite specks end up versatile instead of specialized at something.

I mean Blood Sage was up there as a good support with its focus on ressing. All they had to do was lower the damage a bit and make sure you couldn't cover a ress with stability as well when you ran it. Now Transfusion and Ritual of Life are kinda in the same camp as the 300s cooldown passive proccs.

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@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Core necro and scourge are stat checks. You either have enough damage/cc/sustain to get them or you dont. There is some "skill" involved but its more like pressing buttons in right order of importance, since nothing is worth stowing. And as necro you are gated by cast times and not cooldowns.They made class mechanic revolving around second health bar that fills itself pretty much on its own, what a great design.Reaper is much stronger IMO the core/scourge but I find it more fun to fight against. Their mistakes are punished more and they punish your mistakes more.Its not like with core/scourge where the fight plays itself and you watch it happen half asleep.

Your comment was fueled by a lack of understanding. I don't blame you, as I too, saw the necromancer in a bad light before I started playing it. Passive shroud generation comes from traits that quite a few people didn't take pre-patch. Please don't let the current meta necromancer taint your view of the class. Staff skills regenerate shroud when coupled with a trait that many take, but hey, we need some regeneration eh? All of the staff skills have a different animation and have a 3/4 second cast time! If you dodge staff 4 after they use staff 3, you can avoid the weakness and staff 5 has a very clear animation. When it comes to scepter, shroud regeneration is coming from scepter 3, it has a 3/4 second cast time. As for the shroud itself, look out for dark path, and try to break the chains to avoid the immobilization (600 range).

When it comes to the current meta necromancer, you're preaching to the choir. The core class design however, is one of the most honest specs in the game, don't get it twisted.

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@law.9410 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:Core necro and scourge are stat checks. You either have enough damage/cc/sustain to get them or you dont. There is some "skill" involved but its more like pressing buttons in right order of importance, since nothing is worth stowing. And as necro you are gated by cast times and not cooldowns.They made class mechanic revolving around second health bar that fills itself pretty much on its own, what a great design.Reaper is much stronger IMO the core/scourge but I find it more fun to fight against. Their mistakes are punished more and they punish your mistakes more.Its not like with core/scourge where the fight plays itself and you watch it happen half asleep.

Your comment was fueled by a lack of understanding. I don't blame you, as I too, saw the necromancer in a bad light before I started playing it. Passive shroud generation comes from traits that quite a few people didn't take pre-patch. Please don't let the current meta necromancer taint your view of the class. Staff skills regenerate shroud when coupled with a trait that many take, but hey, we need some regeneration eh? All of the staff skills have a different animation and have a 3/4 second cast time! If you dodge staff 4 after they use staff 3, you can avoid the weakness and staff 5 has a very clear animation. When it comes to scepter, shroud regeneration is coming from scepter 3, it has a 3/4 second cast time. As for the shroud itself, look out for dark path, and try to break the chains to avoid the immobilization (600 range).

When it comes to the current meta necromancer, you're preaching to the choir. The core class design however, is one of the most honest specs in the game, don't get it twisted.

sorry to break it out to you but I play necro. And if you knew about the class you would understand that most of their shroud gain is PASSIVE and cant be stopped.marks triggering gives 3%. you dodge the mark? cool, doesnt fucking matter, they get 3% anyways. In one staff swap they will place 5 marks + 1 from dodge for 6 total, thats 18% LF. They will get 7% from fear? is it passive? kind off, you need to land a fear, but its easy as fuck when you have aoe fear with no telegraph and another with 0,25s cast time... + corrupting stab. You will ALWAYS land fear, so that cant be stopped. Hmm whats next? ah yes ofc. Spectral walk! eats 5 condis gives 20% LF, cant be stopped.... Im seeing a pattern here.Ah yes, Unholy Martyr, leaving shroud consumes 3 conditions. Gives 3% per condi... nothing you can do to stop that, unlucky another 9%.Flash worm -> 10%, this one has SOME counterplay, you can kill it. But its not that you just do during a fight, you fight necro and one of your allies just might happen to find their worm and kill it, not very realistic.

Lets add it up9% from unholy martyr20% from spectral walk18% from marks7% from fear trait10% from worm9%+20%+18%+7%+10%=73%Multiply all that by 1,1 due to extra lf gain from traits for juicy 80% shroud that has almost no counterplay.Necro is strong, boring, binary and a stat check. There is a reason why it has 1/5 difficulty in gods of pvp.btw god bless reaper, its fun to fight against and good for the game, while still some of not most of those apply to it I can respect reaper since it takes much more effort to pilot properly and doesnt rely on brainless shroud tanking.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:necro is easy etc etc

Yeah, that's kind of the issue with this game right now. All the strongest builds are UTTERLY brainless except the pure dps power ones like d/p thief and reaper. And I'd argue that the amount of stealth uptime, dodges, and stun breaks makes d/p thief pretty low skill and hard to punish.I actually would love someone to name a single condi build that's high skill and can be punished easily.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:necro is easy etc etc

Yeah, that's kind of the issue with this game right now. All the strongest builds are UTTERLY brainless except the pure dps power ones like d/p thief and reaper. And I'd argue that the amount of stealth uptime, dodges, and stun breaks makes d/p thief pretty low skill and hard to punish.I actually would love someone to name a single condi build that's high skill and can be punished easily.

Onslaught reaper hard to play? .......unreal.....

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@law.9410 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Core necro and scourge are stat checks. You either have enough damage/cc/sustain to get them or you dont. There is some "skill" involved but its more like pressing buttons in right order of importance, since nothing is worth stowing. And as necro you are gated by cast times and not cooldowns.They made class mechanic revolving around second health bar that fills itself pretty much on its own, what a great design.Reaper is much stronger IMO the core/scourge but I find it more fun to fight against. Their mistakes are punished more and they punish your mistakes more.Its not like with core/scourge where the fight plays itself and you watch it happen half asleep.

Your comment was fueled by a lack of understanding. I don't blame you, as I too, saw the necromancer in a bad light before I started playing it. Passive shroud generation comes from traits that quite a few people didn't take pre-patch. Please don't let the current meta necromancer taint your view of the class. Staff skills regenerate shroud when coupled with a trait that many take, but hey, we need some regeneration eh? All of the staff skills have a different animation and have a 3/4 second cast time! If you dodge staff 4 after they use staff 3, you can avoid the weakness and staff 5 has a very clear animation. When it comes to scepter, shroud regeneration is coming from scepter 3, it has a 3/4 second cast time. As for the shroud itself, look out for dark path, and try to break the chains to avoid the immobilization (600 range).

When it comes to the current meta necromancer, you're preaching to the choir. The core class design however, is one of the most honest specs in the game, don't get it twisted.

sorry to break it out to you but I play necro. And if you knew about the class you would understand that most of their shroud gain is PASSIVE and cant be stopped.marks triggering gives 3%. you dodge the mark? cool, doesnt kitten matter, they get 3% anyways. In one staff swap they will place 5 marks + 1 from dodge for 6 total, thats 18% LF. They will get 7% from fear? is it passive? kind off, you need to land a fear, but its easy as kitten when you have aoe fear with no telegraph and another with 0,25s cast time... + corrupting stab. You will ALWAYS land fear, so that cant be stopped. Hmm whats next? ah yes ofc. Spectral walk! eats 5 condis gives 20% LF, cant be stopped.... Im seeing a pattern here.Ah yes, Unholy Martyr, leaving shroud consumes 3 conditions. Gives 3% per condi... nothing you can do to stop that, unlucky another 9%.Flash worm -> 10%, this one has SOME counterplay, you can kill it. But its not that you just do during a fight, you fight necro and one of your allies just might happen to find their worm and kill it, not very realistic.

Lets add it up9% from unholy martyr20% from spectral walk18% from marks7% from fear trait10% from worm9%+20%+18%+7%+10%=73%Multiply all that by 1,1 due to extra lf gain from traits for juicy 80% shroud that has almost no counterplay.Necro is strong, boring, binary and a stat check. There is a reason why it has 1/5 difficulty in gods of pvp.btw god bless reaper, its fun to fight against and good for the game, while still some of not most of those apply to it I can respect reaper since it takes much more effort to pilot properly and doesnt rely on brainless shroud tanking.

Leo Please!I'm gonna put on my Sherlock Holmes cap and deduce that you don't play necromancer. Staff 5 isn't telegraphed you say? Nope, actually yes it is telegraphed with a swirly staff animation. Doom has a .25s cast time? Nope, it's actually 3/4 of a second (technically 0.64 seconds according to the wiki). Spectral Walk! Okay now I'm convinced you don't play necromancer. Walk only gives life force IF it consumes conditions. The 5 marks on a single swap gave me a chuckle. I'm so glad all of the staff skills have a 10 second cool down.

Furthermore, what mathematical conclusion are you reaching by adding all of these percentages together? Hey, I heard Anet is releasing a new trait that gives 100% life force every 600 seconds. Wow 80 + 100 = 180! That's so broken!

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit aye? I specifically mentioned passive generation coming from traits that many people didn't take pre-patch. It's ironic that I'm even writing this, when you're probably not even going to read all of this, instead glancing at it for 5 seconds before yelling at me. I don't even think you understood the intent of my post. I don't like the tank direction the necromancer is being pushed into. Hugs.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:necro is easy etc etc

Yeah, that's kind of the issue with this game right now. All the strongest builds are UTTERLY brainless except the pure dps power ones like d/p thief and reaper. And I'd argue that the amount of stealth uptime, dodges, and stun breaks makes d/p thief pretty low skill and hard to punish.I actually would love someone to name a single condi build that's high skill and can be punished easily.

Onslaught reaper hard to play? .......unreal.....Well yes, it is easy to do damage with it but most of the time spend is trying to survive and gain life force since there is a reticle on your head. It is one the rare specks that are on a timer, you get to use shroud maximum 3 times if you kite and play well and every time your hp gets lower between shroud use , any fight longer then that is a sign that you are losing. There is also that raggdolling.Don't get me wrong it is strong cause big deeps, but it is one of these things that are easily countered, since everyone knows drop conditions and cc when the reaper is in shroud cause it can't stop them while in it. It is not mechanically intensive, it is simple and effective and that its strength and weakness, it can't do some big surprise play.
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@law.9410 said:

@law.9410 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Core necro and scourge are stat checks. You either have enough damage/cc/sustain to get them or you dont. There is some "skill" involved but its more like pressing buttons in right order of importance, since nothing is worth stowing. And as necro you are gated by cast times and not cooldowns.They made class mechanic revolving around second health bar that fills itself pretty much on its own, what a great design.Reaper is much stronger IMO the core/scourge but I find it more fun to fight against. Their mistakes are punished more and they punish your mistakes more.Its not like with core/scourge where the fight plays itself and you watch it happen half asleep.

Your comment was fueled by a lack of understanding. I don't blame you, as I too, saw the necromancer in a bad light before I started playing it. Passive shroud generation comes from traits that quite a few people didn't take pre-patch. Please don't let the current meta necromancer taint your view of the class. Staff skills regenerate shroud when coupled with a trait that many take, but hey, we need some regeneration eh? All of the staff skills have a different animation and have a 3/4 second cast time! If you dodge staff 4 after they use staff 3, you can avoid the weakness and staff 5 has a very clear animation. When it comes to scepter, shroud regeneration is coming from scepter 3, it has a 3/4 second cast time. As for the shroud itself, look out for dark path, and try to break the chains to avoid the immobilization (600 range).

When it comes to the current meta necromancer, you're preaching to the choir. The core class design however, is one of the most honest specs in the game, don't get it twisted.

sorry to break it out to you but I play necro. And if you knew about the class you would understand that most of their shroud gain is PASSIVE and cant be stopped.marks triggering gives 3%. you dodge the mark? cool, doesnt kitten matter, they get 3% anyways. In one staff swap they will place 5 marks + 1 from dodge for 6 total, thats 18% LF. They will get 7% from fear? is it passive? kind off, you need to land a fear, but its easy as kitten when you have aoe fear with no telegraph and another with 0,25s cast time... + corrupting stab. You will ALWAYS land fear, so that cant be stopped. Hmm whats next? ah yes ofc. Spectral walk! eats 5 condis gives 20% LF, cant be stopped.... Im seeing a pattern here.Ah yes, Unholy Martyr, leaving shroud consumes 3 conditions. Gives 3% per condi... nothing you can do to stop that, unlucky another 9%.Flash worm -> 10%, this one has SOME counterplay, you can kill it. But its not that you just do during a fight, you fight necro and one of your allies just might happen to find their worm and kill it, not very realistic.

Lets add it up9% from unholy martyr20% from spectral walk18% from marks7% from fear trait10% from worm9%+20%+18%+7%+10%=73%Multiply all that by 1,1 due to extra lf gain from traits for juicy 80% shroud that has almost no counterplay.Necro is strong, boring, binary and a stat check. There is a reason why it has 1/5 difficulty in gods of pvp.btw god bless reaper, its fun to fight against and good for the game, while still some of not most of those apply to it I can respect reaper since it takes much more effort to pilot properly and doesnt rely on brainless shroud tanking.

Leo Please!I'm gonna put on my Sherlock Holmes cap and deduce that you don't play necromancer. Staff 5 isn't telegraphed you say? Nope, actually yes it is telegraphed with a swirly staff animation. Doom has a .25s cast time? Nope, it's actually 3/4 of a second (technically 0.64 seconds according to the wiki). Spectral Walk! Okay now I'm convinced you don't play necromancer. Walk only gives life force IF it consumes conditions. The 5 marks on a single swap gave me a chuckle. I'm so glad all of the staff skills have a 10 second cool down.

Furthermore, what mathematical conclusion are you reaching by adding all of these percentages together? Hey, I heard Anet is releasing a new trait that gives 100% life force every 600 seconds. Wow 80 + 100 = 180! That's so broken!

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit aye? I specifically mentioned passive generation coming from traits that many people didn't take pre-patch. It's ironic that I'm even writing this, when you're probably not even going to read all of this, instead glancing at it for 5 seconds before yelling at me. I don't even think you understood the intent of my post. I
don't
like the tank direction the necromancer is being pushed into. Hugs.

dodge mark has 8s cd, staff 2 has about 5s cd.I didnt mean doom on 0,25s cd. I ment fear ring.And in a fight you will ALWAYS have some sort of condition on yourself, be it vulnerability cripple or damaging ones, the only class that comes to mind that MIGHT not give you perma spectral walk procs is warrior othe then that you will get 20% life force every time.I dont mind necro being hard to kill, I mind if there is nothing that you can do to stop them from gaining the lifeforce. out of all the LF generation maybe ~10-15% can be prevented when the rest is just consuming condis triggering mark ( triggering, not HITTING them )

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:I dont mind necro being hard to kill, I mind if there is nothing that you can do to stop them from gaining the lifeforce. out of all the LF generation maybe ~10-15% can be prevented when the rest is just consuming condis triggering mark ( triggering, not HITTING them )I am not sure what you are doing wrong or what I am doing right. A fight against a core necro does usually look like this for me:

  • start: I burst his health from 100 to X
  • he enters shroud with 100% life force
  • I kick him out of shroud with trash attacks like autos or other low cooldown attacks, which takes ages but is like slapping a PvE mob, as his damage in shroud is poor (only skill 5 needs to be dodged or kited to break it)
  • he is out of shroud and I burst as hard as I can and perma cc him. When he pops spectral armor I stop attacking and disengage to avoid triggering the marks.
  • If i didn't kill him already at this point, then he enters shroud again, with at best (!) 50% of life force (it's about 30% most of the time)
  • I continue bursting and just kill him.

If you know what you are doing, then a core necro can't build up more than 30 to 50% of life force in 10 seconds.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:I dont mind necro being hard to kill, I mind if there is nothing that you can do to stop them from gaining the lifeforce. out of all the LF generation maybe ~10-15% can be prevented when the rest is just consuming condis triggering mark ( triggering, not HITTING them )I am not sure what you are doing wrong or what I am doing right. A fight against a core necro does usually look lie this for me:
  • start: I burst his health from 100 to X
  • he enters shroud with 100% life force
  • I kick him out of shroud with trash attacks like autos or other low cooldown attacks, which takes ages but is like slapping a PvE mob, as his damage in shroud is poor (only skill 5 needs to be dodged or kited to break it)
  • he is out of shroud and I burst as hard as I can and perma cc him. When he pops spectral armor I stop attacking and disengage to avoid triggering the marks.
  • he enters shroud again, with at best (!) 50% of life force (it's about 30% most of the time)
  • I continue bursting and just kill him.

If you know what what you are doing, than a core necro can't build up more than 30 to 50% life force in 10 seconds.

core necro shroud 1 skill hits for over 2k( thats when it doesnt crit btw), so if you "slowly kill him with small skills" it will take you 30s of constant barrage of 2k autos that are long range and pierce,while in shroud they leech HP from traits,meaning that if you dont get them out of shroud in reasonable time they will leave with ~5k+ hp more then they had.To top it off out of shroud they have several safty nets built in like spectral walk, worm or just fear ring that makes them safe to almost anything and gives them time to regain shroud and stall the fights even longer.

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@"Leonidrex.5649" said:core necro shroud 1 skill hits for over 2k( thats when it doesnt crit btw), so if you "slowly kill him with small skills" it will take you 30s of constant barrage of 2k autos that are long range and pierce,You can cancel his casts via just moving through the necro. Just move through him all the time while you attack with your autos and watch how many autos he can land. And if his auto attacks deal 2k damage (we are talking about pvp levels of damage, right?) then you can ignore everything I wrote above and just cc, burst and destroy him, because he is a glass canon.

I thought the following is basic knowledge:

  • reaper shroud: kite at any cost, because everything is a huge cone of melee burst
  • core shroud: stay sticky at any cost, because everything except 4 and 5 has long cast times that require a target in front of the player

It obviously isn't.

Core necro sucks at skill levels where players abuse the game mechanics and don't just buttonmash.

while in shroud they leech HP from traits,meaning that if you dont get them out of shroud in reasonable time they will leave with ~5k+ hp more then they had.5k is nothing. That's 2 hits from you. It's not like he has a thousand blocks to be able to stay alive with that tiny bit of additional health.

To top it off out of shroud they have several safty nets built in like spectral walk, worm or just fear ring that makes them safe to almost anything and gives them time to regain shroud and stall the fights even longer.Core necro mobility is a joke. Spectral walk is good but has a huge telegraph and you always know what's going on when the necro casts it. The other two skills are just laughable gimmicks.

I don't know what builds you play but the average viable build ignores spectral ring and gap closes to wurm within the blink of an eye or just interrupts the cast.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:core necro shroud 1 skill hits for over 2k( thats when it doesnt crit btw), so if you "slowly kill him with small skills" it will take you 30s of constant barrage of 2k autos that are long range and pierce,You can cancel his casts via just moving through the necro. Just move through him all the time while you attack with your autos and watch how many autos he can land. And if his auto attacks deal 2k damage (we are talking about pvp levels of damage, right?) then you can ignore everything I wrote above and just cc, burst and destroy him, because he is a glass canon.

I thought the following is basic knowledge:
  • reaper shroud: kite at any cost, because everything is a huge cone of melee burst
  • core shroud: stay sticky at any cost, because everything except 4 and 5 has long cast times that require a target in front of the player

It obviously isn't.

Core necro sucks at skill levels where players abuse the game mechanics and don't just buttonmash.

while in shroud they leech HP from traits,meaning that if you dont get them out of shroud in reasonable time they will leave with ~5k+ hp more then they had.5k is nothing. That's 2 hits from you. It's not like he has a thousand blocks to be able to stay alive with that tiny bit of additional health.

To top it off out of shroud they have several safty nets built in like spectral walk, worm or just fear ring that makes them safe to almost anything and gives them time to regain shroud and stall the fights even longer.Core necro mobility is a joke. Spectral walk is good but has a huge telegraph and you always know what's going on when the necro casts it. The other two skills are just laughable gimmicks.

I don't know what builds you play but the average viable build ignores spectral ring and gap closes to wurm within the blink of an eye or just interrupts the cast.

carrion amulet meta core necro that has 28k hp and like 45k hp worth of shroud hits for 2k-3k with autos.

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@Vancho.8750 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:necro is easy etc etc

Yeah, that's kind of the issue with this game right now. All the strongest builds are UTTERLY brainless except the pure dps power ones like d/p thief and reaper. And I'd argue that the amount of stealth uptime, dodges, and stun breaks makes d/p thief pretty low skill and hard to punish.I actually would love someone to name a single condi build that's high skill and can be punished easily.

Onslaught reaper hard to play? .......unreal.....Well yes, it is easy to do damage with it but most of the time spend is trying to survive and gain life force since there is a reticle on your head. It is one the rare specks that are on a timer, you get to use shroud maximum 3 times if you kite and play well and every time your hp gets lower between shroud use , any fight longer then that is a sign that you are losing. There is also that raggdolling.Don't get me wrong it is strong cause big deeps, but it is one of these things that are easily countered, since everyone knows drop conditions and cc when the reaper is in shroud cause it can't stop them while in it. It is not mechanically intensive, it is simple and effective and that its strength and weakness, it can't do some big surprise play.

Not to rain on your parade but...given the amount of thieves/necros in PvP/WvW I'd say that...you're not 100% on the mark with your assumption, necro has been identified by everybody : streamers, TOP players as one of the easiest professions in the game while thief has bordeline broken mobility which allows unparalleled disengage ..making it a safe pick once you "master" the art of running away

Thief is all about learning to save enough ini for shortbow 5...the rest is just common sense with all the long ranged shadow steps and returnNecro is all about camping that staff from range to store LF...then F1 and go crazy

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:necro is easy etc etc

Yeah, that's kind of the issue with this game right now. All the strongest builds are UTTERLY brainless except the pure dps power ones like d/p thief and reaper. And I'd argue that the amount of stealth uptime, dodges, and stun breaks makes d/p thief pretty low skill and hard to punish.I actually would love someone to name a single condi build that's high skill and can be punished easily.

Onslaught reaper hard to play? .......unreal.....Well yes, it is easy to do damage with it but most of the time spend is trying to survive and gain life force since there is a reticle on your head. It is one the rare specks that are on a timer, you get to use shroud maximum 3 times if you kite and play well and every time your hp gets lower between shroud use , any fight longer then that is a sign that you are losing. There is also that raggdolling.Don't get me wrong it is strong cause big deeps, but it is one of these things that are easily countered, since everyone knows drop conditions and cc when the reaper is in shroud cause it can't stop them while in it. It is not mechanically intensive, it is simple and effective and that its strength and weakness, it can't do some big surprise play.

Not to rain on your parade but...given the amount of thieves/necros in PvP/WvW I'd say that...you're not 100% on the mark with your assumption, necro has been identified by everybody : streamers, TOP players as one of the easiest professions in the game while
thief
has bordeline broken mobility which allows unparalleled disengage ..making it a safe pick once you "master" the art of running away

Thief is all about learning to save enough ini for
shortbow 5
...the rest is just common sense with all the long ranged shadow steps and returnNecro is all about camping that staff from range to store LF...then F1 and go crazyLike i said it is simple to play Reaper, but it is hard to be effective when getting to higher ratings since it is the easiest kill out of all meta builds. Thief, Necro and Warrior are the professions that are stuck in one position because of their core design and idea. Thief has the dip in dip out design with high mobility, linger on one spot too long and you die, warrior depends allot on direct hits in melee to be effective that is why it can't handle long exposure to AoE chip damage and the multiple cc conditions, but it is good in skirmishes or 1v1 , the life force/shroud mechanics helps necro deal with this AoE chip damage but it is inefficient in 1v1 situations since life force generation scales with the number of people hit.
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