The biggest barrier to raids

[Quasar.1756]

In my opinion, the biggest barrier to raids are the balance patches. For some reason, anet likes to pick on professions that does big numbers and force the player to learn something new.

Some gw2 players don't like that, especially if they put alot of gold and time into mastering their toon.

Let's shine a light on the elephant in the room; Raid commanders will require certain dps professions for boss encounters cause they do insane damage to them, thus making clears faster, cause ALOT of the gw2 raid community doesn't have the patience with bosses or they deem the raid 'not exp' cause they took a minute longer with the encounter....Ultimately killing the 'fun' factor of raiding.

Not saying this is the great barriers of all barriers, but it puts many players in a position they are not comfortable with, cause now they have to adjust to the current patch to appease the raid, thus taking the 'fun' element out of raids cause now they have to master another profession and spend more time and gold till the next patch 'heavily inclines' them to do it all over again.

We all know condi mesmers are the 'go to' dps profession for Twin Largos, while some RC's would be forgiving, other RC's are hell bent on having them in their raid for that encounter whether it's a guild run or not. Not even going to mention the 'kill success percentage' of not running 'certain' professions for the last bosses in wing 6 & 7....takes the freedom of choice when doing certain bosses unlike open world pve.

Raids are awesome and I really don't care about playing 5 - 7 professions to earn my kills, but NOT EVERYONE plays multiple toons and if they do, they lack the performance on those toons to be effective to the raids.

Though this maybe wishful thinking, I my opinion, raids should be more mechanically based than putting up high numbers, it will save anet from doing nerf bat changes and put the rate of success on the player with their favorite profession; they put their blood, sweat and tears into, rather than doing sloppy mechanics but because dps was high, it leads to a kill....(Cough) Cairn.

[Cerioth.7062]

@A R W E N.6895 said:Update : Today I waited 3 hours watching 3 different discord and in game LFG. Still not into a raid. Even tried putting a group on LFG. Did not work. What is the barrier to raid again?

You.... are trying to get into a raid on a release day of a new living world episode. Wonder what went wrong there.

[panzerdragon.8791]

@Quasar.1756

Made some good points and really pointed out some basically mandatory comps. True , largos goes much better with mirages but it's possible with other dps. Here is the point I see. Raids should demand good dps or support from every squad member. It's the end game and testing our mastery of our role and class is reasonable. I don't mind certain raids having more dps checks than others though. Just occurs that largos is a hard dps check. Learning many toons is part of the fun. I've actually still never just dpsd on dhuum. Always doing greens or something else. It's like a whole new fight with cool new mechanics when you change spots!

[A R W E N.6895]

@Cerioth.7062 said:

@A R W E N.6895 said:Update : Today I waited 3 hours watching 3 different discord and in game LFG. Still not into a raid. Even tried putting a group on LFG. Did not work. What is the barrier to raid again?

You.... are trying to get into a raid on a release day of a new living world episode. Wonder what went wrong there.

Release day was yesterday. Find something else to convince me that 3 hours of waiting time is normal

[panzerdragon.8791]

@A R W EN

I agree that 3 hours is a bit rough. Depends on the fight though. W1-4 is insta fill since they are old , well played by this point and pretty easy. W5 and 7 are pretty popular. W6 is always a hassle to pug.

Best of luck

[Cyninja.2954]

@A R W E N.6895 said:

@Cerioth.7062 said:

@A R W E N.6895 said:Update : Today I waited 3 hours watching 3 different discord and in game LFG. Still not into a raid. Even tried putting a group on LFG. Did not work. What is the barrier to raid again?

You.... are trying to get into a raid on a release day of a new living world episode. Wonder what went wrong there.

Release day was yesterday. Find something else to convince me that 3 hours of waiting time is normal

My casual raid guild cleared wings 1+2+4 (up to Deimos) on Tuesday evening. The 2nd raid squad of the dedicated raid guild I am in cleared wings 1-4. Both groups raided for about 2 hours.

Discord and PUG raiding is heavily affected by people's spare time and new content. That's always been the case. Given how the last few living world episodes have also been quit grindy as far as achievements go... most non static or committed players are not raiding for a few days when a new Living World Episode releases.

[Obtena.7952]

@A R W E N.6895 said:Update : Today I waited 3 hours watching 3 different discord and in game LFG. Still not into a raid. Even tried putting a group on LFG. Did not work. What is the barrier to raid again?

Anet can't make that happen for you .... Not sure what you want them to do or what you hope to accomplish with this.

Just sitting there watching LFG isn't going to get you a raid. That's L2P more than anything. If the MOST you are willing to do is this, it's no wonder you are having problems.

[A R W E N.6895]

@Obtena.7952 @Cyninja.2954

Fun fact is I was following your proposal in previous replies you gave to me and others. Did not work (SadFace). So I decided to do something completely different and I switched my account to EU, and since then I am able to find raid group.

So let me rephrase my post : The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people (IN NA).

[panzerdragon.8791]

I have no doubt about this. Eu seems to have way better pug life.

@A R W E N.6895 said:@Obtena.7952 @Cyninja.2954

Fun fact is I was following your proposal in previous replies you gave to me and others. Did not work (SadFace). So I decided to do something completely different and I switched my account to EU, and since then I am able to find raid group.

So let me rephrase my post : The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people (IN NA).

[Obtena.7952]

@A R W E N.6895 said:@Obtena.7952 @Cyninja.2954

Fun fact is I was following your proposal in previous replies you gave to me and others. Did not work (SadFace). So I decided to do something completely different and I switched my account to EU, and since then I am able to find raid group.

So let me rephrase my post : The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people (IN NA).

Fun fact is that you just didn't do it right ... that's why it's a L2P issue. Listen, I'm not going to hold your hand to the end so you get raids. There are LOTS of NA players that don't experience this ... because they know how to get teams. Clearly, whatever they are doing, you are not. That's not a thing Anet needs to fix for you.

[A R W E N.6895]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@A R W E N.6895 said:@Obtena.7952 @Cyninja.2954

Fun fact is I was following your proposal in previous replies you gave to me and others. Did not work (SadFace). So I decided to do something completely different and I switched my account to EU, and since then I am able to find raid group.

So let me rephrase my post : The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people (IN NA).

Fun fact is that you just didn't do it right ... that's why it's a L2P issue. Listen, I'm not going to hold your hand to the end so you get raids. There are LOTS of NA players that don't experience this ... because they know how to get teams. Clearly, whatever they are doing, you are not. That's not a thing Anet needs to fix for you.

Sure, at this point and from what I keep seeing from you is that you clearly fail to get the point of my post.

Have a great life

[Cyninja.2954]

@A R W E N.6895 said:@Obtena.7952 @Cyninja.2954

Fun fact is I was following your proposal in previous replies you gave to me and others. Did not work (SadFace). So I decided to do something completely different and I switched my account to EU, and since then I am able to find raid group.

So let me rephrase my post : The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people (IN NA).

Yes.

NA ans EU are vastly different raid scenes.

The biggest barrier to raids in NA is the fact the raid scene is nearly dead. Most guilds and raiders have transfered to EU.

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

Well then travel to EU or find or form a guild for your selves. Or cry about not being able to raid and never do it

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

If the same amount of ppl that commented this post would go and form a guild they would have easily learned the bosses by now xD

[Forbidden Virtue.1089]

Don't know how the raid scene is in NA, but I'm not having any issues in EU.

I'm mainly a WvW player, but I've learned to raid with Raid Training Initiative and I've met some of the most amazing and patient people I could wish for in there. Once I was comfortable to raid on my own, I eventually ended up finding a static in training and we're slowly progressing to faster kills every week while having a laugh talking about the most random stuff.

Just hang in there..

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@A R W E N.6895 said:@Obtena.7952 @Cyninja.2954

Fun fact is I was following your proposal in previous replies you gave to me and others. Did not work (SadFace). So I decided to do something completely different and I switched my account to EU, and since then I am able to find raid group.

So let me rephrase my post : The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people (IN NA).

Fun fact is that you just didn't do it right ... that's why it's a L2P issue. Listen, I'm not going to hold your hand to the end so you get raids. There are LOTS of NA players that don't experience this ... because they know how to get teams. Clearly, whatever they are doing, you are not. That's not a thing Anet needs to fix for you.

Raiding issues have nothing to to with l2p, raigding is unpopular because the vast majority of players don't like the tuning/junp in circle, Stack on x gameplay style. Imagine Anets approach if they were running boxing, they don't create amateur tournaments (ie easier mode raids) for amateur boxers, but say if you want to box you have to box in tournaments we provide for professionals. The amateur boxer is not going to 'l2p' they are going to not enter tournaments.

[Akira.6072]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Not really.

More like getting 10 people together, and have each of them regard their playmate's skill level as 'acceptable'.

Getting 10 people who are competent enough. That's been my experience too.

[Cyninja.2954]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@A R W E N.6895 said:@Obtena.7952 @"Cyninja.2954"

Fun fact is I was following your proposal in previous replies you gave to me and others. Did not work (SadFace). So I decided to do something completely different and I switched my account to EU, and since then I am able to find raid group.

So let me rephrase my post : The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people (IN NA).

Fun fact is that you just didn't do it right ... that's why it's a L2P issue. Listen, I'm not going to hold your hand to the end so you get raids. There are LOTS of NA players that don't experience this ... because they know how to get teams. Clearly, whatever they are doing, you are not. That's not a thing Anet needs to fix for you.

Raiding issues have nothing to to with l2p, raigding is unpopular because the vast majority of players don't like the tuning/junp in circle, Stack on x gameplay style. Imagine Anets approach if they were running boxing, they don't create amateur tournaments (ie easier mode raids) for amateur boxers, but say if you want to box you have to box in tournaments we provide for professionals. The amateur boxer is not going to 'l2p' they are going to not enter tournaments.

The only issue here is that:

• most raiders are amature league. The pros are destroying the content with setups and mechanics you have no idea of
• the majority of this player base is in the "not even a boxer" demografic

So, if we assume that moving from no boxer to amature league is akin to learn to play, it very well is a learn to play issue. I don't care how good a player "thinks" he is, if all he has ever experienced and played is open world, he will be pretty bad at this game. Unless he specifically went out of his way to improve, learn and understand game mechanics which in no way are required for his select content (or taught via it). Which I have NEVER seen so far in this game. The best was players who were proficient at CM+T4 fractals transition to raiding.

There is a reason why teaching wvw or spvp players to pve raid is significantly easier than open world pve players. They already have some of the game mechanic fundamentals down. Class rotations and boss mechanicd are all they lack often.

Now that is not to say every person has to become a boxer. If you are fine with not being a boxer, that is perfectly okay. But stop the pretending as though you could without practice. Before you even get to amateur box, you have to get in shape, learn the basics of boxing, have some sparring and after all that, you might be good enough to start in amateur league (to stick with your example).

[Obtena.7952]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@A R W E N.6895 said:@Obtena.7952 @Cyninja.2954

Fun fact is I was following your proposal in previous replies you gave to me and others. Did not work (SadFace). So I decided to do something completely different and I switched my account to EU, and since then I am able to find raid group.

So let me rephrase my post : The biggest barrier to raid is finding 10 people (IN NA).

Fun fact is that you just didn't do it right ... that's why it's a L2P issue. Listen, I'm not going to hold your hand to the end so you get raids. There are LOTS of NA players that don't experience this ... because they know how to get teams. Clearly, whatever they are doing, you are not. That's not a thing Anet needs to fix for you.

Raiding issues have nothing to to with l2p,

Maybe ... but we aren't talking about issues in general here. We are talking about getting a team. That IS about learning to play.

[panzerdragon.8791]

@Obtena.7952

If you are in NA raid academy is the easiest way to learn and play raids. You can of course lfg for a while but the ra player base is big enough and willing to keep teaching. Over the past few days I saw 400 plus pings for practice runs.

[Obtena.7952]

@panzerdragon.8791 said:@Obtena.7952

If you are in NA raid academy is the easiest way to learn and play raids. You can of course lfg for a while but the ra player base is big enough and willing to keep teaching. Over the past few days I saw 400 plus pings for practice runs.

Right ... I'm more than aware of these guilds. What people need to do is INTERACT with them and get involved, not just expect raid offers to fall in their laps. That's a L2P issue, not a game mechanics problem.

[panzerdragon.8791]

@Obtena.7952

Indeed I agree it's a l2p issue, or I guess a learn to mmo issue as well.

Yeh over the 8 years er so in the game I have seen tons of cool stuff solo or in 5 man ,but there is nothing like a tight and clean raid clear. It's like a beautiful dance as largos glides in and around squad mates dodging and jumping over crap, or how interesting it feels to do greens on dhuum knowing full well if you mess up your team might as well wipe. Yeh the legendary armor and trinkets are cool ,but the novelty wears off. What is left at the end of the day is the personal growth and memories made in those 20 hour progression runs. To this end meeting raids on their terms is the cost of entry I argue is worth every minute on the lfg.

[A R W E N.6895]

It is not a l2p issue when changing region solves the number of people problem in raids. The blindness to this fact is appaling.

[Obtena.7952]

@A R W E N.6895 said:It is not a l2p issue when changing region solves the number of people problem in raids. The blindness to this fact is appaling.

Just because changing region worked for you does NOT conclude this isn't a L2P issue to get a team on a NA server.

[Arcaniaxs.4519]

If all NA ppl that cry about not finding a raid group on the forums contacted each other they could form a 50+ member guild and form trainings for themselves