Thief Rifle SPvP Issue

[UNOwen.7132]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

Actually, its not balanced around stealth at all. And in-combat stealth isnt even

good

in GW2. The skills are bad because its thief, and still has access to shortbow 5. And as long as thief has shortbow 5, he simply isnt allowed to ever be able to win 1v1s. Only decap and +1. And for +1ing range is less relevant than in-combat mobility, and with LoS-ing and projectile denial, at times being ranged is an outright detriment.

Also, the stealth spam version is the one thats trash. The correct version is ignoring stealth alltogether (dropping it as soon as you can, and not running SA), and just go for 2 spam with maleficent 7.

Stealth in combat is fantastic in GW2. The idea that it isn't is a myth perpetuated by people who don't pay attention to their opponents cooldowns during duels.

Stealth in combat is awful in GW2. The idea that it isn't is a myth perpetuated by people who fail the incredibly easy task of punishing someone for trying to stealth mid-combat. Seriously, try using stealth mid-combat as a thief against a good Ranger or Engineer or Rev, and you will find that they just kill you for trying to stealth up.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

Actually, its not balanced around stealth at all. And in-combat stealth isnt even

good

in GW2. The skills are bad because its thief, and still has access to shortbow 5. And as long as thief has shortbow 5, he simply isnt allowed to ever be able to win 1v1s. Only decap and +1. And for +1ing range is less relevant than in-combat mobility, and with LoS-ing and projectile denial, at times being ranged is an outright detriment.

Also, the stealth spam version is the one thats trash. The correct version is ignoring stealth alltogether (dropping it as soon as you can, and not running SA), and just go for 2 spam with maleficent 7.

Stealth in combat is fantastic in GW2. The idea that it isn't is a myth perpetuated by people who don't pay attention to their opponents cooldowns during duels.

Stealth in combat is

awful

in GW2. The idea that it isn't is a myth perpetuated by people who fail the incredibly easy task of punishing someone for trying to stealth mid-combat. Seriously, try using stealth mid-combat as a thief against a good Ranger or Engineer or Rev, and you will find that they just kill you for trying to stealth up.

I can tell from this post almost exactly what mistakes you are making. Engi, Rev, and Ranger all have attacks that will either continue through stealth or hit in massive AoEs to the point where stealth doesn't matter. This means you are stealthing in their face without properly paying attention to what they are doing.

For instance, say you are fighting a SicEm soulbeast-Correct use of stealth: Predicting when they will switch to LB by paying attention to their weapon swap cooldowns, swapping while LB is down so you don't get rapid fired to oblivion. Even better, stealth just before you suspect they will use it so you get the detarget off before they have a chance start casting RF.Incorrect use of stealth: Panic stealthing while getting shot. RF continues to hit you through stealth because you tried to use it reactively instead of as a tactic. Complain on forums that stealth is useless in combat because you got RFed to death in stealth. Stealthing at random for a backstab.

Another use in combat is to predict when the enemy team will focus you and pre-emptively stealthing and then quickly refocusing on a target. This particular tactic is used in top games religiously, and allows you to re-engage without actually dropping combat. Clown does it in this match several times:

I could further explain for nearly every single matchup where people think stealth doesn't work in combat, but then this reply would become a massive amount of TL;DR. The reality is people who think stealth is bad mid-skirmish just don't know how to use it properly.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

Actually, its not balanced around stealth at all. And in-combat stealth isnt even

good

in GW2. The skills are bad because its thief, and still has access to shortbow 5. And as long as thief has shortbow 5, he simply isnt allowed to ever be able to win 1v1s. Only decap and +1. And for +1ing range is less relevant than in-combat mobility, and with LoS-ing and projectile denial, at times being ranged is an outright detriment.

Also, the stealth spam version is the one thats trash. The correct version is ignoring stealth alltogether (dropping it as soon as you can, and not running SA), and just go for 2 spam with maleficent 7.

Stealth in combat is fantastic in GW2. The idea that it isn't is a myth perpetuated by people who don't pay attention to their opponents cooldowns during duels.

Stealth in combat is

awful

in GW2. The idea that it isn't is a myth perpetuated by people who fail the incredibly easy task of punishing someone for trying to stealth mid-combat. Seriously, try using stealth mid-combat as a thief against a good Ranger or Engineer or Rev, and you will find that they just kill you for trying to stealth up.

I can tell from this post almost exactly what mistakes you are making. Engi, Rev, and Ranger all have attacks that will either continue through stealth or hit in massive AoEs to the point where stealth doesn't matter. This means you are stealthing in their face without properly paying attention to what they are doing.

Im making no mistakes. Im the guy killing the thieves who made the grave error of trying to use stealth in-combat. Its not just Engi, Rev and Ranger either. A few other classes can do it. Namely Guardian, Warrior, Thief, Ele, Necro, Mesmer. Oh wait, thats literally all of them. Fancy that.

For instance, say you are fighting a SicEm soulbeast-Correct use of stealth: Predicting when they will switch to LB by paying attention to their weapon swap cooldowns, swapping while LB is down so you don't get rapid fired to oblivion. Even better, stealth just before you suspect they will use it so you get the detarget off before they have a chance start casting RF.Incorrect use of stealth: Panic stealthing while getting shot. RF continues to hit you through stealth because you tried to use it reactively instead of as a tactic. Complain on forums that stealth is useless in combat because you got RFed to death in stealth. Stealthing at random for a backstab.

Not quite.Correct use of stealth: When no longer in combat.Incorrect use of stealth: When in combat.Here is the problem. Youre not just worried about RF. Youre also worred about any CC, Swoop into Maul, Brutal Charge, or just the ranger cleaving you down while youre in stealth. You also straight up cant stealth before the RF because your stealth is far too slow, it takes you at least a second unless youre willing to burn a stunbreak (which youre better of using as, yknow, a stunbreak).

Another use in combat is to predict when the enemy team will focus you and pre-emptively stealthing and then quickly refocusing on a target. This particular tactic is used in top games religiously, and allows you to re-engage without actually dropping combat. Clown does it in this match several times:

If youre in combat and youre worried about them focusing you, then stealthing is the absolute worst thing you can do. They will kill you before you even get stealth. Theyre not just gonna watch you do your stealth thing for 1.25 seconds while twiddling your thumb. This tactic isnt used at all in top games, unless you mistake what "in combat" actually means.

And suspicion confirmed. Clown does not do it in the match a single time. Every time he disengages, waits until no one is attacking him or can attack him, and then, and only then does he stealth. Thats not in-combat stealth. Thats out of combat stealth.

I could further explain for nearly every single matchup where people think stealth doesn't work in combat, but then this reply would become a massive amount of TL;DR. The reality is people who think stealth is bad mid-skirmish just don't know how to use it properly.

Id love to see you try, because so far your examples all failed miserably. I can easily explain for every single matchup why stealth is a terrible idea that gets you killed. The reality is people think stealth isnt bad mid-skirmish just dont know how to punish it.

[Ryuk.6840]

ahahahahah

I really love the part in 01:05:39 , where the thief is stealthed on the base and the other thief is wasting aoes/resourses , trying to snuff him out :)

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Master Ketsu.4569 dont argue with mathematician, he is immune to logic and common sense.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

And suspicion confirmed. Clown does not do it in the match a single time. Every time he disengages, waits until no one is attacking him or can attack him, and then, and only then does he stealth. Thats not in-combat stealth. Thats out of combat stealth.

Bruh.

You seem to have an extremely warped understanding of what "In combat" means. If you haven't dropped combat to the point that you are in regen, you are still in combat. Just because the people in that MAT are not stealthing point blank right in peoples faces does not mean that they aren't using it in combat. That would be ridiculous, and only very bad players use stealth the way you expect them to.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

And suspicion confirmed. Clown does not do it in the match

a single time

. Every time he disengages, waits until no one is attacking him or

can

attack him, and then, and

only

then does he stealth. Thats not in-combat stealth. Thats out of combat stealth.

Bruh.

You seem to have an extremely warped understanding of what "In combat" means. If you haven't dropped combat to the point that you are in regen, you are still in combat. Just because the people in that MAT are not stealthing point blank right in peoples faces does not mean that they aren't using it in combat. That would be ridiculous, and only very bad players use stealth the way you expect them to.

I suppose I should have chosen more clear words. Yes, from a game perspective you are still in-combat, but thats the thing, you could already have successfully run away and the game will still treat you as "in combat". The way I use it is "in combat" is when you are actively fighting an enemy, and "out of combat" is when you have already disengaged and wont be attacked. They are not using it "in combat", as they dont use it while actively fighting. But there is the thing, when people complain about stealth, they specifically complain about people stealthing up in-combat. As in, while actively fighting. Despite the fact that that is terrible.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

And suspicion confirmed. Clown does not do it in the match

a single time

. Every time he disengages, waits until no one is attacking him or

can

attack him, and then, and

only

then does he stealth. Thats not in-combat stealth. Thats out of combat stealth.

Bruh.

You seem to have an extremely warped understanding of what "In combat" means. If you haven't dropped combat to the point that you are in regen, you are still in combat. Just because the people in that MAT are not stealthing point blank right in peoples faces does not mean that they aren't using it in combat. That would be ridiculous, and only very bad players use stealth the way you expect them to.

I suppose I should have chosen more clear words. Yes, from a game perspective you are still in-combat, but thats the thing, you could already have successfully run away and the game will still treat you as "in combat". The way I use it is "in combat" is when you are actively fighting an enemy, and "out of combat" is when you have already disengaged and wont be attacked. They are not using it "in combat", as they dont use it while actively fighting. But there is the thing, when people complain about stealth, they

specifically

complain about people stealthing up in-combat. As in, while actively fighting. Despite the fact that that is terrible.

The definition of in-combat should mean exactly the same as what it means in game. Any other definition is arguing semantics and/or intellectually dishonest word soup.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

And suspicion confirmed. Clown does not do it in the match

a single time

. Every time he disengages, waits until no one is attacking him or

can

attack him, and then, and

only

then does he stealth. Thats not in-combat stealth. Thats out of combat stealth.

Bruh.

You seem to have an extremely warped understanding of what "In combat" means. If you haven't dropped combat to the point that you are in regen, you are still in combat. Just because the people in that MAT are not stealthing point blank right in peoples faces does not mean that they aren't using it in combat. That would be ridiculous, and only very bad players use stealth the way you expect them to.

I suppose I should have chosen more clear words. Yes, from a game perspective you are still in-combat, but thats the thing, you could already have successfully run away and the game will still treat you as "in combat". The way I use it is "in combat" is when you are actively fighting an enemy, and "out of combat" is when you have already disengaged and wont be attacked. They are not using it "in combat", as they dont use it while actively fighting. But there is the thing, when people complain about stealth, they

specifically

complain about people stealthing up in-combat. As in, while actively fighting. Despite the fact that that is terrible.

The definition of in-combat should mean exactly the same as what it means in game. Any other definition is arguing semantics and/or intellectually dishonest word soup.

Then replace it with whatever word you want. "Really in-combat stealth". It doesnt matter. The fact is, people complain about "really in combat stealth". Not when the thief is already disengaged and at 0 risk of being hit anyway.

[half blood lord.6047]

One thing that de lacks is do damage and be safe you cant do them both