Did A-Net deliver "Expansion Tier Content" yet

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Mewcifer.5198" said:So I think to Anet "Expansion level content" is more about the fact that its a whole campaign of a story.

Nah they told us about expansion tier features being things usually reserved to be released in an expansion, nothing to do with the story.

They also stressed that the Saga is gonna be bigger than a Season, so instead of comparing the Icebrood Saga with expansions, it will first need to be better than Season 4, and in my opinion it's not.

[Asum.4960]

@Taril.8619 said:

@"Mewcifer.5198" said:So I think to Anet "Expansion level content" is more about the fact that its a whole campaign of a story. Not a subplot, not a series of smaller events that prepare us for the next campaign. They wanted icebrood saga to be a large overarching, world changing plotline on par with fighting zhaitan, mordremoth, or balthazar.

But to players "Expansion level content" was about new gimmicks, new elite specs, new maps, etc. They imagined expansion to be about the mechanics because "well story is in the living world too". They wanted icebrood saga to add new mechanics that would create considerable changes in the game.

It's worth noting, that the devs did talk about adding in the new features that players would consider "Expansion level content" into IBS as and when they were ready.

Just, that they eventually changed their minds and decided to work on an actual expansion (Which is likely to have whatever "Expansion level content" features that are currently or soon to be ready to implement put into it)

It's probably a good thing that they do so as well. Since after Build Templates, I'd hate to see what would happen to something like E-Specs released during IBS...

2000 gems on gem store "Unlock the newest E-Spec for

a character

"1000 gems on gem store "Get the newest E-Spec's weapon and collection to upgrade it to Ascended quality for

a character

"5000 gems bundle on gem store "Get a level 80 boost token, unlock the newest E-Spec and get a set of Exotic gear fully slotted with the new E-Spec Runes for

a character

(This is 10,000 gems worth of items)"

I'd take the $30 expansion to get all E-Specs, new gimmicks, masteries, maps etc. For all characters, than risk them trying to milk out more individual character items on gem store...

Exactly why players usually prefer the Expansion Model over the Live Service model.

It's much easier to trickle in and hide overreaching and exploitative monetization compared to when releasing it in bulk, on top of Expansions usually leading to much more cohesive packages of content, systems and design which advance the game.

I'd much rather just pay for a cohesive expansion experience than being nickel and dimed by disjointed "free" content which doesn't really evolve the game over time.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

No, Expansions bring many new areas, a full story and extra's like elite specializations.

Don't get me wrong, The Icebrood Saga episodes have been great. Just like LW S3 and LW S4 was great. And because they were free they provide excellent value for existing players. I love it but I'm glad ANet finally decided to make an expansion again: Cantha!

[Mewcifer.5198]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Mewcifer.5198" said:So I think to Anet "Expansion level content" is more about the fact that its a whole campaign of a story.

Nah they told us about

expansion tier features

being things usually reserved to be released in an expansion, nothing to do with the story.

They also stressed that the Saga is gonna be bigger than a Season, so instead of comparing the Icebrood Saga with expansions, it will first need to be better than Season 4, and in my opinion it's not.

Did they say features? Everyone everywhere has been saying content over and over and it has been a while since the announcement so I guess I was wrong about that.But they did add strikes, which is a new feature to the game at least.

I do agree with icebrood saga feeling like a bit of a dropped ball, at least on the interesting features part. We are four episodes in and I am on the fence about what to think.

Grothmar was a lot of fun, it gave us a good look into the mindset of the average charr with a lot of ambient dialog. But other than that we didn't get much. But I guess a prequel isn't meant to be everything. In the season itself there has been a lot of things that are just left unanswered about Jormag. We are getting the same thing we had before about Jormag's plans and that is we know nothing about them. I like the sense of mystery and the feeling of doubt about whether or not we are doing the right thing. But if they don't give us something solid soon it will become more frustration than anything. But overall the lore given in the saga has been incredible and I am eating it up. The story is good too but.... The icebrood saga has also made me feel incredibly side-lined as a character, which I had never felt before but I had seen people complain about before with previous story. Braham is the one dealing with the spirits while I get stuck as the "grrr I got turned into an animal and didn't like it" comedy relief. Rytlock and Crecia are the ones handling everything with the charr while I get to literally stand to the side and watch as Smodur ruins everything. Only jumping in to chase and fight enemies.

GIVE ME SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO DO DAMN IT! Even Trahearne gave me important missions that I had to complete so I felt like I had an impact in the war against Zhaitan. In Icebrood Saga I feel like a lackey, not a commander.

The achievements have been grindy and force me into doing strikes if I want to complete the meta achievements which I am really unhappy about. I like to grind for achievements in my own time and then maybe try and get a specific group-content achievement when I have a friendly group from my guild to do it with. I do not like the grindy episode achievements being bled over into group content. And I do not think the meta achievements for the episodes should require getting group-content achievements. But that could just be my personal preference.

The metas have been very hit or miss. Bjora Marches meta 1 was agonizingly slow but because it didn't require a lot of thought it allowed me to just sorta half pay attention while I waited on a timer (which when you think about it is probably not the best game design because it is the definition of not engaging content). Bjora Marches meta 2 is actually fun. Drizzlewood meta 1 is interesting the WvW style of fighting a war is fun, but it does kind confuse people about where they should be if they aren't used to it, the post meta running around to kill things I could do without. I didn't like it in Dragonfall, and I don't like it here. Drizzlewood meta 2 is... I don't know, it is hard to put a finger on exactly what my feelings on it are, I just know it didn't feel very fun when I was doing it.

But since I am expecting the saga to be larger than a season, they have time to get things moving in the story and add something new and interesting to the game.

Right now I am lukewarm on it. I don't think it is bad enough to go and complain a lot about it. But it's not brilliant either. Plenty of room for improvement, but also time for the improvement to happen.

Also I realize I am typing up pretty big posts on this thread. I guess thank you to anyone taking the time to actually read my ramblings.

[Naxos.2503]

They delivered content.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Taril.8619" said:To be fair, what exactly is "Expansion Level Content"?

That's the question. I don't have a valid definition of it other than it being a well and fully developed, conclusive story of consistent quality, not story bits like with LW where quality and tenor constantly vary greatly.

As for additional goodies, we have had a few that I can see in an expansion as well.

I miss new professions (or elite specs), but I suppose that is reserved for an expansion. ;)

[Zzik.5873]

@Trise.2865 said:

@Makuragee.3058 said:Except the prologue, no not at all, not even close...

So... including the prologue, yes they did?

Kind of, the prologue would have been a great expansion opening. But they did drop the ball after. But Im a fair person I give credit were credit is due, prologue was excellent. If only they would have keep the momentum...

[Zzik.5873]

@saye.9304 said:gw2 still updates the game with good amount of content for free.i do not understand the people who are complaining, because all triple A mmos out there, are asking you to pay for content either through sub fee or purchasing it directly.i did buy content in eso for example and i can say skyrim/greymoor was not worth 40 euro i paid for it.there is no mmo i know that updates the game with content every 3-4 months for free, even those asian games, their so called free to play is a lie and almost all of them are pay to win. do not believe me? go download them and see for yourself.gw2 is the cheapest triple A mmo out there and we should be happy we are still getting free content.that being said, i hope they revenue will increased ( specially with upcoming expansion) so we get even better and bigger content.

Fair enought... I regret my complaint after what you said...

[Atomos.7593]

Personally I would rather pay for quality new content anytime than have developers push out bad free content.

[saye.9304]

@Atomos.7593 said:Personally I would rather pay for quality new content anytime than have developers push out bad free content.

if there was no upcoming expansion, i would agree with you, but 3rd expansion is coming most probably late 2021.this content we are getting is the content in between expansions and it is fine as filler content.it progresses the story making you ready for expansion.it will entertain you even for a little bit before expansion.so far gw2 expansion came with big features like mount, gliding and elite specialization along with 5 big maps and story.like i said for the filler content it is fine.

[Kurrilino.2706]

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Yes, there's been some quite major changes this season. However, its not quite "expansion level" until we have new Elites specs. I'm hoping they'll bring new Elites towards the end and a new race in the next expo instead of holding off Elites until then.

You say all that and vote "Yes" ????????

[Atomos.7593]

@saye.9304 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:Personally I would rather pay for quality new content anytime than have developers push out bad free content.

if there was no upcoming expansion, i would agree with you, but 3rd expansion is coming most probably late 2021.this content we are getting is the content in between expansions and it is fine as filler content.it progresses the story making you ready for expansion.it will entertain you even for a little bit before expansion.so far gw2 expansion came with big features like mount, gliding and elite specialization along with 5 big maps and story.like i said for the filler content it is fine.

Yeah there is a paid expansion on the way. I would be fine with paying for living world episodes too though if that meant better releases.

[saye.9304]

@Atomos.7593 said:

@saye.9304 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:Personally I would rather pay for quality new content anytime than have developers push out bad free content.

if there was no upcoming expansion, i would agree with you, but 3rd expansion is coming most probably late 2021.this content we are getting is the content in between expansions and it is fine as filler content.it progresses the story making you ready for expansion.it will entertain you even for a little bit before expansion.so far gw2 expansion came with big features like mount, gliding and elite specialization along with 5 big maps and story.like i said for the filler content it is fine.

Yeah there is a paid expansion on the way. I would be fine with paying for living world episodes too though if that meant better releases.

i would pay for season pass as well if that means better quality content.but go make post about paying money for season pass and see reaction of ton of people attacking you left and right.what you are saying already mentioned by people and they said increase the quality of living world instead monetize it, but all of them got attacked by people.for this community, and revenue this game generating, we are getting good amount of content and an expansion, so we are good.

[Bast.7253]

It's arguably the same as we get with every living season. The difference is the maps are split in half and the stories feel shorter to me. It's just that now they're planned more carefully in between festivals, which receive minimal updates and can get pretty stale.

I'd have to echo the bit about masteries as well. Even without elite specs each expansion brought masteries that could be used elsewhere in the game. I suppose the waystation does this, as does the stealth ability for mounts, but they're not really the same impact that gliding/mounts have. The essence mastery in general has always been clunky and map-specific. It just feels like filler at this point and flat damage increases with more mastery points. It's obnoxious to collect, the buff doesn't last long, and it has minimal impact outside of zerg phases in metas and bosses. It's also tied to lore. Other masteries like jumping mushrooms and thermal vents can be incorporated into future maps and make sense. The essence mastery really doesn't have any room for implementation moving forward...

In general though, I'd have to say it's felt pretty filler. We've halfway into it and we've had one vision which only served to introduce characters for the following episode. When they were introduced I was hoping they would be used as a mechanic with a broader scope than just setting up future story. Something that would allow us to gain the perspective of things long in the past, of characters we normally wouldn't like a Tengu during the Charr invasion of Drizzlewood, or a Jotun/Kodan/Norn back during Jormag's first movement that pushed everyone south. Something that really went outside of the box. I think the vision was pretty entertaining and fun, but I guess I thought visions would be a new iteration of fractals with strikes being the new iteration of raids that appeal to a larger playerbase.

Sadly, they'll also most likely receive no development or continuation beyond this living season. Anet seems to be the king of inventing new systems and quickly abandoning them. I assume there are some metrics behind it but sometimes it feels like they've abandoned something because it was just easier than improving it.

Ultimately it just feels like more of the same resource/development starved content they've been producing. I hope that means they're going balls to the wall with the expansion as it's probably the wiser and more lucrative investment, but in terms of this living season feeling anymore unique than any other living season I can't say that it does, at least not in a good way. My main praise would just be for the consistency and the cadence of releases, even if they feel artificially extended by halving what would normally be one episode.

Other positive notes would just be about general gameplay and systems. The shooting thing from Grothmar was kind of interesting, the vehicle mechanics, the rocket launcher defending the base, the wvw system in pve, the puzzles in Bjora, and some of the other events like the shrines in Bjora. They're doing a good job making events and the gameplay feel different than standard heart completion or fetch quests. They've also done a pretty good job at listening to player feedback to improve certain things, like inventory bloat with the siege items and salvage items in Drizzlewood. (If only they would listen to feedback about these wretched essence masteries.)

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Mewcifer.5198" said:But since I am expecting the saga to be larger than a season, they have time to get things moving in the story and add something new and interesting to the game.

Right now I am lukewarm on it. I don't think it is bad enough to go and complain a lot about it. But it's not brilliant either. Plenty of room for improvement, but also time for the improvement to happen.

So why did you vote "yes" to the question "Did Anet deliver expansion tier content yet?"

[TheBravery.9615]

absolutely no content for WvW

[serialkicker.5274]

@saye.9304 said:

@Atomos.7593 said:Personally I would rather pay for quality new content anytime than have developers push out bad free content.

if there was no upcoming expansion, i would agree with you, but 3rd expansion is coming most probably late 2021.this content we are getting is the content in between expansions and it is fine as filler content.it progresses the story making you ready for expansion.it will entertain you even for a little bit before expansion.so far gw2 expansion came with big features like mount, gliding and elite specialization along with 5 big maps and story.like i said for the filler content it is fine.

Here is another idea. No Living story at all, which would result in way faster release of expansion(s), so we wouldn't have to wait that long and also it could possibly lead to even better quality expansions, since more people would work on them.

[Fueki.4753]

@serialkicker.5274 said:Here is another idea. No Living story at all,If Arenanet goes for the cheap road of having Jormag invade Cantha, we need at least one more episode (or an epilogue) to explain the transition from snowy mountains to Cantha.If Arenanet goes for the road that makes a little more sense, we get two or three more episodes fighting (and ultimately killing) Jormag and then get an epilogue explaining why we go to Cantha.Also, Arenanet has to bridge the time between the xpac release in 2022 (or maybe Nov/Dec 2012 at its earliest).

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Danikat.8537" said:It wouldn't surprise me if some stuff which was due to come out as part of Icebrood Saga got held back when it became clear players weren't happy without another expansion in the works and Anet decided to make one. That's basically how the entire of HoT worked - they released almost nothing for 9 months so they could bundle up what was effectively a Living World season and sell it as an expansion, but somehow that was better than releasing it gradually for free.That's not quite the same. If you compare LS2 (a season that, according to Anet was an "expansion-level content"), with HoT, you will see that HoT vastly outperformed it in practically every way. It's just that what Anet considers an "expansion tier content" is just one of the multitude of pieces you could build an expansion from - it does not mean however that if you gather all those pieces together, from the whole season (or two), you will have enough of them to make an expansion. In truth, you won't get anywhere close to it.

A castle and a barn are made of the same elements - bricks. Don't let someone tell you that 6 barns are the same thing as a castle, though. Even if all of them are made using "castle-tier elements".

[BlackBullWings.2734]

I like strikes, grothmar and Drizzlewood, but the masteries are stale, the story instances feel lazy except for some niche moments, and the enemies are a disappointment. each expansion brought cool new enemies with cool new attacks and engagement, here they just reuse some vanilla GW2 enemies (seriously, vanilla?) without even proper modern gw2 attacks, and they copypaste icebrood construct 3982389489 times.visions of the past is giving me a huge "never gonna touch it again" vibe that they tend to do with so much gw2 content. The scarlet visions were also pretty badly implemented, I'm still 0% up to date on what even happened during that season. The steel and fire one is cool, I hope they do more of those.

So nah, but for a living world, it's pretty good tbh.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Mewcifer.5198" said:But since I am expecting the saga to be larger than a season, they have time to get things moving in the story and add something new and interesting to the game.

Right now I am lukewarm on it. I don't think it is bad enough to go and complain a lot about it. But it's not brilliant either. Plenty of room for improvement, but also time for the improvement to happen.

So why did you vote "yes" to the question "Did Anet deliver expansion tier content yet?"

Even expansions can be bad.

[Kurrilino.2706]

@"sitarskee.5738" said:I don't know and who knows really what is "expansion level" content.I expected nothing and I didn't get disappointed. I enjoy the new stuff so far, I only wish they cared more about other game modes than story.

I assume the 80% voting NO, know exactly what "expansion level" would look like.

A new area with a true meaning that doesn't exist only because of waging war. With starter areas like Queensdale.Maps that are full of live with something that lives in there. Also full of lore and adventures.Skills and specs that somehow mirror the new environment.We all remember the skills that came with Cantha or Elona in GW1. Ninja skills for Cantha and Dervish skills for Elona.

Something that somehow tells a story of a whole package where everything is linked.

[Bast.7253]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@serialkicker.5274 said:Here is another idea. No Living story at all,If Arenanet goes for the cheap road of having Jormag invade Cantha, we need at least one more episode (or an epilogue) to explain the transition from snowy mountains to Cantha.If Arenanet goes for the road that makes a little more sense, we get two or three more episodes fighting (and ultimately killing) Jormag and then get an epilogue explaining why we go to Cantha.Also, Arenanet has to bridge the time between the xpac release in 2022 (or maybe Nov/Dec 2012 at its earliest).

With the confirmation that the other dragons are now free to move in and out of the mists it could really be any one of them if that's what takes us to Cantha. I'm fairly certain we will get at least 3 more maps though. Just going based on the original Icebrood announcement cinematic there are a number of things we haven't really touched on yet:

1. The Kodan being shipped over a body of water on a funeral pyre and really haven't dealt with that much Kodan outside of Bjora.
2. The Charr burning -whether this is symbolic of the war with Bangar, something involving the flame legion, or primordus it's difficult to tell.
3. The human slaves being herded by Centaur. None of that has appeared so far.
4. The ship sinking beneath the ocean.

It's really hard to tell what could be coming next though. We might get some final involvement with the spirits after the recent revelation with Owl but it doesn't seem like they're going to dive too deeply into those. Jormag is now traveling pretty much anywhere it wants so we're not locked into Northern Tyria.

[Fueki.4753]

@Bast.7253 said:With the confirmation that the other dragons are now free to move in and out of the mists it could really be any one of them if that's what takes us to Cantha.Which confirmation?Jormag gained its Mists magic via absorbing Spirits of the Wild.Kralkatorrik gained it by absorbing Balthazar's magic, all of which was absorbed by Aurene after Kralkatorrik died.

How would Primordus or Selbbub gain access to the Mists?It's more likely that Selbbub just crosses the sea, or already is in Cantha.Primordus also could just burrow through the ground (like it did before).

[Raknar.4735]

Aside from especcs we‘ve gotten everything ¯\(ツ)/¯