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Elite spec Speculations and desires


Lily.1935

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For Necromancer - the Accursed

Specializing in volatile, yet extremely powerful cureses discovered in ruins of Orr it would serve as a tank duelist spec that specilizes in unique debuffs or buffs that rather than being part of boon/condition relation, are about necro outplaying (or failing to) their enemies. For example:

Curse of Famine: casted when you use a healing skill. You self apply slow for 2s when using a healing skill (so it's channel is longer).

Successfully completing the channel despite this handicap will reward 30% stronger heal and 50% more healing from all sources for 5s.Failure to complete the healing channel will make healing from all sources 50% less potent than normal for next 5s.

Curses would be "branded" into utility skill slots and activated with F2 (press F2, then next utility cast will be 'cursed'). You decide when to use cursed or non-cursed version.

As for the shroud form I would imagine a rather bulky, tanky looking floating wraith with chains hanging from his waist, sleeves, and legs. Shroud form would generally deal with tanking a lot of damage and applying distruption cc (pulls, fear).

The general idea is that is it to be that one scary, lone wraith/monster, you don't want near you ever and as long as you don't provoke it, it won't have many ways to jump you. But if you do provoke it (by either attacking it or entering it's visibly marked territory) it'll be on you in a flash and standard cheap tactics of dogpiling or kiting will be subject to severe punishment if the Accursed player knows his stuff.

Gameplay wise, compared to other necro specs

He would have less aoe damage potential than reaper or scourge, much closer to core. Also his support ability would be lesser than scourges. His supporting is about taking things onto his own shoulders rather than buffing others left and right. In exchange he would boast both highest defense and offence of all specs, but the latter would be for single target scenarios only and provided he makes proper use of his high risk, high reward curses, which can just as easily kill him or gut his damage when executed poorly.

In PvE the accursed would be excellent bosser, but an average mobber, close to core in terms of the latter, with less forgiving ways to defend himself, but more effective ones than core if they are executed properly. His access to stability would be on pair or better than reaper, but that'd be offest but the fact that his fights would take usually longer than reaper's on average - he won't be an aoe reaping machine that only when faced with bosses needs to make a short stop from continous harvest.

In PvP he's be that one necro you don't want to jump recklessly - he can be demolished as easy as unproteced scourge if not easier if he fails to set up his defenses properly. But if he does, nothing worse can happen to you in terms of facing a necro. He will boast high survival, high chasing potential and anti burst/dogpiling retalliation mechanics, should he be attacked and use his defensive/curse skills properly.

In WvW he'd insta get the roamer role. He's no party animal, and is armed to deal with stuff that makes other necro specs cringe (ranged snipes, stealth, insta bursts). He's still high risk and can be killed easy when caught off guard, but if on guard and attacked - he will give his attackers a run for their money, even those that other necro specs can't hope to fight against in a duel.

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@"Noodle Ant.1605" said:Especs are not defined by roles, roles are defined by the theme of the espec, at least ever since PoF (especs will have at least 2 or more defining and different roles).

I doubt they will release a ‘healer’ espec ever again (e.g. druid), with the amount of options flying around, being restricted to such a role would make the espec way too niche to ever be played, unless the espec was planned to be completely useless from the start. It would be appropriate if said espec had a option for some alternate dps/bruiser/dueler role so it would see some use elsewhere. Switching to an espec which plays vastly differently from what is preferred just to play a very general role (e.g. usually ‘dps’) isn’t really a good argument either.

My only hope is that they’ve learned from their mishaps and actually design especs that achieve what they were supposedly intended to do (create new options, take away some, have distinct playstyle and different mechanics from core, not have to continually nerf the espec because the concept is broken, etc.).

There's definitely a degree of truth in this, but I think there are good examples of elite specs that can make pretty good healers (or supports in general) but aren't defined by being the healer as much as druid is. Firebrand, tempest, and renegede are all fairly capable of acting as healers, but can viably perform other roles as well. Druid is... it's pretty much obliged to be a support build. Now, it's worth noting that good support builds are often defined more by what they bring to the table OTHER than healing rather than pure healing output, and druid does bring a good set of buffs as well, but it is a bit pigeonholed.

However, that doesn't mean we can't say "profession X could do with an elite specialisation that can do Y", as long as Y isn't the only thing the elite specialisation can do. The example of the plaguedoctor engineer, for instance, could be similar to firebrand, having builds suitable both for DPS, support, or some hybrid of the two (similar to condi quickbrand).

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:That's a biased point of view. You could similarly say that holosmith come from the study of the scraps of technology left by scarlet briar after her fall in lion arch without any relationship with elona.

All PoF expansion Elite Specs have their origins fully explained in the game by Elite Spec NPCs which all of them said they are of Elona origins with the exception of Renegade being founded recently by the 1st generation of Revenant charr that were channeling into the Mist to see what Charr Legend will appear and aid them.

The names of the NPCs are...Roni Gehianu for Firebrand Origins.Gorea Halfcut for Renegade Origins.Tamela Okar for Spellbreaker Origins.Baraz Sharifi for Holosmith Origins.Ebelek Eze for Soulbeast Origins.Nakato Ibori for Deadeye Origins.Folarin Oyekan for Weaver Origins.Nasrin Davish for Mirage Origins.Akesi Xuni for Scourage Origins.

Each one will explain, except for Renegade, that the PoF Elite Spec are of Elona Origins and how they were founded in Elona.

If they follow this setup again then most likely the Cantha Expansion Elite Spec maybe of Cantha Origin with the only exception being Revenant since that Profession is only recently founded by Rytlock and the Revenant are still within their first generation of members still testing who they can summon from the Mist to aid them.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:That's a biased point of view. You could similarly say that holosmith come from the study of the scraps of technology left by scarlet briar after her fall in lion arch without any relationship with elona.

All PoF expansion Elite Specs have their origins fully explained in the game by Elite Spec NPCs which all of them said they are of Elona origins with the exception of Renegade being founded recently by the 1st generation of Revenant charr that were channeling into the Mist to see what Charr Legend will appear and aid them.

The names of the NPCs are...Roni Gehianu for Firebrand Origins.Gorea Halfcut for Renegade Origins.Tamela Okar for Spellbreaker Origins.Baraz Sharifi for Holosmith Origins.Ebelek Eze for Soulbeast Origins.Nakato Ibori for Deadeye Origins.Folarin Oyekan for Weaver Origins.Nasrin Davish for Mirage Origins.Akesi Xuni for Scourage Origins.

Each one will explain, except for Renegade, that the PoF Elite Spec are of Elona Origins and how they were founded in Elona.

If they follow this setup again then most likely the Cantha Expansion Elite Spec maybe of Cantha Origin with the only exception being Revenant since that Profession is only recently founded by Rytlock and the Revenant are still within their first generation of members still testing who they can summon from the Mist to aid them.

Want to point out: Cantha actually has the unique ability to even tie in the revenant class into their lore!

Ritualists in Cantha were powerful mages which were communing with the mists long before the revenants actively travelled the mists. This class has been an inspiration for the revenant class in the first place, up to the point that they even made revenants blindfold themselves in the game, just like ritualists already did traditionally, since they thought that blindfolding will help them look into the mists instead of their own reality.

So it could very well be that our revenant friends are going to Cantha and learn some new tricks from the ancient traditions of the ritualists there, making ritualist their new elite spec.Cantha also provides some legendary ritualists for revenants to summon.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:That's a biased point of view. You could similarly say that holosmith come from the study of the scraps of technology left by scarlet briar after her fall in lion arch without any relationship with elona.

All PoF expansion Elite Specs have their origins fully explained in the game by Elite Spec NPCs which all of them said they are of Elona origins with the exception of Renegade being founded recently by the 1st generation of Revenant charr that were channeling into the Mist to see what Charr Legend will appear and aid them.

The names of the NPCs are...Roni Gehianu for Firebrand Origins.Gorea Halfcut for Renegade Origins.Tamela Okar for Spellbreaker Origins.Baraz Sharifi for Holosmith Origins.Ebelek Eze for Soulbeast Origins.Nakato Ibori for Deadeye Origins.Folarin Oyekan for Weaver Origins.Nasrin Davish for Mirage Origins.Akesi Xuni for Scourage Origins.

Each one will explain, except for Renegade, that the PoF Elite Spec are of Elona Origins and how they were founded in Elona.

If they follow this setup again then most likely the Cantha Expansion Elite Spec maybe of Cantha Origin with the only exception being Revenant since that Profession is only recently founded by Rytlock and the Revenant are still within their first generation of members still testing who they can summon from the Mist to aid them.

Want to point out: Cantha actually has the unique ability to even tie in the revenant class into their lore!

Ritualists in Cantha were powerful mages which were communing with the mists long before the revenants actively travelled the mists. This class has been an inspiration for the revenant class in the first place, up to the point that they even made revenants blindfold themselves in the game, just like ritualists already did traditionally, since they thought that blindfolding will help them look into the mists instead of their own reality.

So it could very well be that our revenant friends are going to Cantha and learn some new tricks from the ancient traditions of the ritualists there, making ritualist their new elite spec.Cantha also provides some legendary ritualists for revenants to summon.

Highly doubtful. The lore of the Ritualist is tied with the spirits, underworld, grenth and their rivalry with the necromancer. We will see Ritualist, no doubt, but as a Revenant elite spec? Doesn't fit. You'd have to warp the ritualist to the point its unrecognizable.

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@Lily.1935 said:

Highly doubtful. The lore of the Ritualist is tied with the spirits, underworld, grenth and their rivalry with the necromancer. We will see Ritualist, no doubt, but as a Revenant elite spec? Doesn't fit. You'd have to warp the ritualist to the point its unrecognizable.

They may not be Ritualist themselves but there is still possible lore for the Ritualist to be a possible Elite Spec for Cantha expansion as currently has stated that the 1st generation of Revenants are searching the world for locations where the Mists are strongest so they can commune with Legends in the Mist and form pacts with them. Where these spots are located determine how stronger connection with Legends related to the area.

For Cantha locations, there are many legends that may become the next Elite Spec for Revenant such as Master Togo (Ideal choice in my opinion if they get a Ritualist Elite Spec), Mhenlo (he spent his years after GW1 being the new master of Shing Jea Monastery with his wife Cynn but uncertain what type of Elite spec he maybe for.), and Vizu (potential Assassin type Dual Daggers Elite Spec for Revenant).

I would consider Razah but he is most likely still alive since he is a immortal manifestation of the Mist but that is another topic for maybe a future storyline.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:

Highly doubtful. The lore of the Ritualist is tied with the spirits, underworld, grenth and their rivalry with the necromancer. We will see Ritualist, no doubt, but as a Revenant elite spec? Doesn't fit. You'd have to warp the ritualist to the point its unrecognizable.

They may not be Ritualist themselves but there is still possible lore for the Ritualist to be a possible Elite Spec for Cantha expansion as currently has stated that the 1st generation of Revenants are searching the world for locations where the Mists are strongest so they can commune with Legends in the Mist and form pacts with them.

For Cantha locations, there are many legends that may become the next Elite Spec for Revenant such as Master Togo (Ideal choice in my opinion if they get a Ritualist Elite Spec), Mhenlo (he spent his years after GW1 being the new master of Shing Jea Monastery with his wife Cynn bu uncertain what type of Elite spec he maybe for.), and Vizu (potential Assassin type Dual Daggers Elite Spec for Revenant).

Absolutely. I have a suspicion Ritualist will influence multiple of the classes in Cantha in some way, if not becoming its own profession. And I honestly think that would be the best marketing pitch Arena Net could make.

"Guild wars 2: Third Expansion. Featuring 9 new elite specs AND the Brand new Ritualist profession!"

Just imagine the hype and fervor the community would go into? Imagine the heads turning towards GW2 as they introduce a Highly desired Class from the first game that would make GW2 the talk of the MMO community.

Personally I'd Like them to Do something unique with how they release it if they did it like that. Release the core class only, and over the Living world season release new Elite specs for it to keep engagement and desire for this class extremely high rather than just having a burst of excitement. Granted this is a lot of work, but Would it create a lot of hype and player retention.

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@Lily.1935 said:

Highly doubtful. The lore of the Ritualist is tied with the spirits, underworld, grenth and their rivalry with the necromancer. We will see Ritualist, no doubt, but as a Revenant elite spec? Doesn't fit. You'd have to warp the ritualist to the point its unrecognizable.

They may not be Ritualist themselves but there is still possible lore for the Ritualist to be a possible Elite Spec for Cantha expansion as currently has stated that the 1st generation of Revenants are searching the world for locations where the Mists are strongest so they can commune with Legends in the Mist and form pacts with them.

For Cantha locations, there are many legends that may become the next Elite Spec for Revenant such as Master Togo (Ideal choice in my opinion if they get a Ritualist Elite Spec), Mhenlo (he spent his years after GW1 being the new master of Shing Jea Monastery with his wife Cynn bu uncertain what type of Elite spec he maybe for.), and Vizu (potential Assassin type Dual Daggers Elite Spec for Revenant).

Absolutely. I have a suspicion Ritualist will influence multiple of the classes in Cantha in some way, if not becoming its own profession. And I honestly think that would be the best marketing pitch Arena Net could make.

"Guild wars 2: Third Expansion. Featuring 9 new elite specs AND the Brand new Ritualist profession!"

Just imagine the hype and fervor the community would go into? Imagine the heads turning towards GW2 as they introduce a Highly desired Class from the first game that would make GW2 the talk of the MMO community.

Personally I'd Like them to Do something unique with how they release it if they did it like that. Release the core class only, and over the Living world season release new Elite specs for it to keep engagement and desire for this class extremely high rather than just having a burst of excitement. Granted this is a lot of work, but Would it create a lot of hype and player retention.

Now I have to say that it is highly doubtful.

I know you want ritualist back, since it was your favourite profession from the first Guild Wars. It was mine, too. But Anet created the revenant profession to finally balance out the 3 armor types, since we went years with just 2 heavy armor type classes while the other two armor types had 3 classes each.I just don't see them breaking that balance again by introducing a 10th profession in the game.

Also what you describe here to just release the core profession and then let elite specs for it follow with the living world story would not really create as much hype as you expect, in my opinion.Ritualist would feel really underwhelming at the beginning, which would most likely kill the hype for it, just because it can't really compete with the other classes when it comes to versatility. All the other classes would have 3 elite specs to alternate your playstyle, but ritualists would be stuck with just playing core for months, if not years to come?

I just don't see much reason for them to bring back ritualist as an own profession. Especially after they already translated many of it's unique mechanics into mechanics of other professions, like the engineer.Their ashes system is made into kits now. Their spirits became our modern turrets.

Makig ritualist an elite spec for an existing class like necromancer or revenant is way more likely in my eyes.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

Want to point out: Cantha actually has the unique ability to even tie in the revenant class into their lore!

Ritualists in Cantha were powerful mages which were communing with the mists long before the revenants actively travelled the mists. This class has been an inspiration for the revenant class in the first place, up to the point that they even made revenants blindfold themselves in the game, just like ritualists already did traditionally, since they thought that blindfolding will help them look into the mists instead of their own reality.

So it could very well be that our revenant friends are going to Cantha and learn some new tricks from the ancient traditions of the ritualists there, making ritualist their new elite spec.Cantha also provides some legendary ritualists for revenants to summon.

This. Ritualist for Revenant (or at least heavily Rit inspired) specialization that focuses on Channeling Magic. It's just a perfect fit with Revenant being thematically heavily inspired by the Ritualist in the first place.

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@Elric.4713 said:

Want to point out: Cantha actually has the unique ability to even tie in the revenant class into their lore!

Ritualists in Cantha were powerful mages which were communing with the mists long before the revenants actively travelled the mists. This class has been an inspiration for the revenant class in the first place, up to the point that they even made revenants blindfold themselves in the game, just like ritualists already did traditionally, since they thought that blindfolding will help them look into the mists instead of their own reality.

So it could very well be that our revenant friends are going to Cantha and learn some new tricks from the ancient traditions of the ritualists there, making ritualist their new elite spec.Cantha also provides some legendary ritualists for revenants to summon.

This. Ritualist for Revenant (or at least heavily Rit inspired) specialization that focuses on Channeling Magic. It's just a perfect fit with Revenant being thematically heavily inspired by the Ritualist in the first place.

Ritualist is a bad fit for revenant. It would he yet another Support elite spec which revenant already has 2. Plus you have to Butcher the ritualist to get it to fit.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

Highly doubtful. The lore of the Ritualist is tied with the spirits, underworld, grenth and their rivalry with the necromancer. We will see Ritualist, no doubt, but as a Revenant elite spec? Doesn't fit. You'd have to warp the ritualist to the point its unrecognizable.

They may not be Ritualist themselves but there is still possible lore for the Ritualist to be a possible Elite Spec for Cantha expansion as currently has stated that the 1st generation of Revenants are searching the world for locations where the Mists are strongest so they can commune with Legends in the Mist and form pacts with them.

For Cantha locations, there are many legends that may become the next Elite Spec for Revenant such as Master Togo (Ideal choice in my opinion if they get a Ritualist Elite Spec), Mhenlo (he spent his years after GW1 being the new master of Shing Jea Monastery with his wife Cynn bu uncertain what type of Elite spec he maybe for.), and Vizu (potential Assassin type Dual Daggers Elite Spec for Revenant).

Absolutely. I have a suspicion Ritualist will influence multiple of the classes in Cantha in some way, if not becoming its own profession. And I honestly think that would be the best marketing pitch Arena Net could make.

"Guild wars 2: Third Expansion. Featuring 9 new elite specs AND the Brand new Ritualist profession!"

Just imagine the hype and fervor the community would go into? Imagine the heads turning towards GW2 as they introduce a Highly desired Class from the first game that would make GW2 the talk of the MMO community.

Personally I'd Like them to Do something unique with how they release it if they did it like that. Release the core class only, and over the Living world season release new Elite specs for it to keep engagement and desire for this class extremely high rather than just having a burst of excitement. Granted this is a lot of work, but Would it create a lot of hype and player retention.

Now I have to say that it is highly doubtful.

I know you want ritualist back, since it was your favourite profession from the first Guild Wars. It was mine, too. But Anet created the revenant profession to finally balance out the 3 armor types, since we went years with just 2 heavy armor type classes while the other two armor types had 3 classes each.I just don't see them breaking that balance again by introducing a 10th profession in the game.

Also what you describe here to just release the core profession and then let elite specs for it follow with the living world story would not really create as much hype as you expect, in my opinion.Ritualist would feel really underwhelming at the beginning, which would most likely kill the hype for it, just because it can't really compete with the other classes when it comes to versatility. All the other classes would have 3 elite specs to alternate your playstyle, but ritualists would be stuck with just playing core for months, if not years to come?

I just don't see much reason for them to bring back ritualist as an own profession. Especially after they already translated many of it's unique mechanics into mechanics of other professions, like the engineer.Their ashes system is made into kits now. Their spirits became our modern turrets.

Makig ritualist an elite spec for an existing class like necromancer or revenant is way more likely in my eyes.

Made a long post only for my phone to bug and be like "Nuh, girl. Delete! Hahaha" very sad... I don't want to type it all out again so I'll abridge it.

I believe a new class would generate more external hype than elite specs while new elite specs probably would be more internal hype. But I don't know that for sure.

My favorite class from GW1 was the necromancer. Not ritualist, ritualist was my third. Order being Necromancer, Mesmer, Ritualist then Dervish.

Necromancer has been almost a complete disappointment in GW2 but I have no home in gw2 for my favorite playstyle so it remains my favorite in spite of my numerous complaints.

Mesmer just barely makes the top 5 in gw2 due to its hybridized playstyle with Assassin and mesmer from gw1 and its overall lack of control in comparison to its gw1 counterpart as well as compared to GW2 necromancer.

Ritualist was my third because of my love of its support builds in just how different they were and it was my favorite secondary for necro in gw1. In gw2 the closest that gets to its playstyle I enjoyed from gw1 is scourge healer and to a lesser extent condi scourge has some similarities with SoS rit.

Dervish was probably the only melee class I really enjoyed in gw1 and a lot of what I loved about it is reflected in the revenant of all things.

Note my perspective on the classes is based on mechanical feel to me and you might not feel the same way about them and that's okay.

For GW2 my favorite classes are ordered like this:

  1. Necromancer
  2. Engineer
  3. Guardian
  4. Revenant
  5. Mesmer
  6. Elementalist
  7. Ranger
  8. Thief
  9. Warrior

Revenant and Guardian are extremely close... it could swap extremely easily.

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@Lily.1935 said:

Want to point out: Cantha actually has the unique ability to even tie in the revenant class into their lore!

Ritualists in Cantha were powerful mages which were communing with the mists long before the revenants actively travelled the mists. This class has been an inspiration for the revenant class in the first place, up to the point that they even made revenants blindfold themselves in the game, just like ritualists already did traditionally, since they thought that blindfolding will help them look into the mists instead of their own reality.

So it could very well be that our revenant friends are going to Cantha and learn some new tricks from the ancient traditions of the ritualists there, making ritualist their new elite spec.Cantha also provides some legendary ritualists for revenants to summon.

This. Ritualist for Revenant (or at least heavily Rit inspired) specialization that focuses on Channeling Magic. It's just a perfect fit with Revenant being thematically heavily inspired by the Ritualist in the first place.

Ritualist is a bad fit for revenant. It would he yet another Support elite spec which revenant already has 2. Plus you have to Butcher the ritualist to get it to fit.

A ritualist doesn't necessarily have to be a support. Healing support might have been your favourite playstyle in guild wars for that class (if I am interpreting it correctly here), but ritualist's actual niche was that it was a jack of all trades. You could play ritualist as a healing support, but also as a great damage dealer (especially with spirits) and there was also the potential to play them as melee bruiser!

Stuff like their weapon spells, which gave them additional survivability by mechanics like blocks, healing, etc. The elite spell spirit's strength made them deal additional damage while under the effect of a weapon spell and you had to be a primary ritualist to get the full potential out of that.Other spells, like Vengeful was Khanhei, let you tank hoards of enemies since you were stealing health from every enemy hitting you.

Ritualists can get used for support elite spec. But they can also represent dps elite specs or even bruisers. And the bruiser approach would actually be my favourite, they could give the revenant something that resembles the weapon spells from the first game, being able to enchant their own weapons with effects helping them to survive in the middle of the enemy, for example.

About your point that we have to warp it to the point it is unrecognisable: That is bound to happen, yes. GW2 is a compleely different game with completely different mechanics. Even if they would introduce ritualist as an own profession, it won't be like their GW1 alter ego at all. Look what they did with necromancer or mesmer. These classes existed in GW1, too, but do they actually play like these in GW2? They are very different.

What I am caring for to transport over to GW2 is the thematic of the ritualist. An ancient spirit communer that uses souls to strengthen weapons with magical power. This is the thematic I am looking for. Spirits were fun and what I played my ritualist most with in GW1, but we already have turrets and the renegade doing something similar, that thematic is not needed that badly for me. What I am missing are the weapon spells.

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Ranger- I want an "Alpha" so the roles are inverted and you control the bigger version of your pet and the "Pet skills" are similiar to commands so almost like pokemon.

Mesmer- "Veilborn" after concerted effort one of your clones becomes permanent and that's the "character". You sacrifice the ability to shatter for maybe permaboons (like guardians aegis), maybe double-dagger capabilities, boon corruption and boon sacrificing for greater effects since their not a "real" person

Elementalist- since we logically have a more concentrated version of the elements (Tempest) and the mixing of elements (weaver) I suggest adding a new element: space and gravity. Inspired by Liadri the Concealing Dark, they would be a hardcore CC spec, slamming people with dark matter and summoning black holes etc.

Engineer- I want a fun- light-hearted spec like Sous Chef- splattering crippling cake-batter, buffing people with sweets (like the Bday gun), and cutting those deep like Gordon Ramsey.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

Want to point out: Cantha actually has the unique ability to even tie in the revenant class into their lore!

Ritualists in Cantha were powerful mages which were communing with the mists long before the revenants actively travelled the mists. This class has been an inspiration for the revenant class in the first place, up to the point that they even made revenants blindfold themselves in the game, just like ritualists already did traditionally, since they thought that blindfolding will help them look into the mists instead of their own reality.

So it could very well be that our revenant friends are going to Cantha and learn some new tricks from the ancient traditions of the ritualists there, making ritualist their new elite spec.Cantha also provides some legendary ritualists for revenants to summon.

This. Ritualist for Revenant (or at least heavily Rit inspired) specialization that focuses on Channeling Magic. It's just a perfect fit with Revenant being thematically heavily inspired by the Ritualist in the first place.

Ritualist is a bad fit for revenant. It would he yet another Support elite spec which revenant already has 2. Plus you have to Butcher the ritualist to get it to fit.

A ritualist doesn't necessarily have to be a support. Healing support might have been your favourite playstyle in guild wars for that class (if I am interpreting it correctly here), but ritualist's actual niche was that it was a jack of all trades. You could play ritualist as a healing support, but also as a great damage dealer (especially with spirits) and there was also the potential to play them as melee bruiser!

Stuff like their weapon spells, which gave them additional survivability by mechanics like blocks, healing, etc. The elite spell spirit's strength made them deal additional damage while under the effect of a weapon spell and you
had
to be a primary ritualist to get the full potential out of that.Other spells, like Vengeful was Khanhei, let you tank hoards of enemies since you were stealing health from every enemy hitting you.

Ritualists can get used for support elite spec. But they can also represent dps elite specs or even bruisers. And the bruiser approach would actually be my favourite, they could give the revenant something that resembles the weapon spells from the first game, being able to enchant their own weapons with effects helping them to survive in the middle of the enemy, for example.

About your point that we have to warp it to the point it is unrecognisable: That is bound to happen, yes. GW2 is a compleely different game with completely different mechanics. Even
if
they would introduce ritualist as an own profession, it won't be like their GW1 alter ego at all. Look what they did with necromancer or mesmer. These classes existed in GW1, too, but do they actually play like these in GW2? They are very different.

What I am caring for to transport over to GW2 is the thematic of the ritualist. An ancient spirit communer that uses souls to strengthen weapons with magical power. This is the thematic I am looking for. Spirits were fun and what I played my ritualist most with in GW1, but we already have turrets and the renegade doing something similar, that thematic is not needed that badly for me. What I am missing are the weapon spells.

Actually healer wasn't my favorite. It was Soul Twisting protector that I really enjoyed. But you have to remember that weapon spells were damage support. Ritualist was anything but a jack of all trades. They were very bad at DPS. You could make it work but they were far better at bursts of damage a opposed to sustained damage but. And their DPS specs were fragile to say the least. I've played their Destructive urns builds, their spirit spam builds and their ghostly strength builds. The SoS was the least fragile but lacked in damage. As much as people think it was good damage, it wasn't. Just consistent and provided the party with field control through body blocking. Because of this the DPS ritualist would often act as a puller for backline focused teams to funnel foes I to the spirits to prevent movement to the back line opening them up to large bursts while providing a solid consistent damage.

Now their high damage builds, the destructive urns build and the ghostly strength were extremely fragile. Without spirits the ritualist isn't all that defensive. They have weapon spells to help but most break on one attack. So Ghostly strength was better in PvP while in PvE it was extremely rare. Destructive urns on the other hand was used in 55 farming and in DoA because it could quickly burst damage. But its sustain damage was lacking. And it still required some puller to lock the foes in place so they could come in and clean up.

Weapon spells were all support skills unless I'm forgetting one or two that weren't. And their intended design was to be used as sort of a DPS support for many of them to aid allies in their damage output.

Spirits were also mostly Support. Some were control and some damage but that wasn't the bulk of them. Ritualist has 2 primary support lines in communing and Restoration with only channelling magic being really about DPS.

Not only that the ritualist was added to GW1 as an alternative to the monk. It was the second healer and was supposed to fill that role. To no fault of it's own necromancer did it better using their skills but that's because Soul reaping was busted and the ritualist had to jump through far too many hoops to get going. But the intention of the ritualist was and always will have been a support class.

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@Kodama.6453 said:About your point that we have to warp it to the point it is unrecognisable: That is bound to happen, yes. GW2 is a compleely different game with completely different mechanics. Even if they would introduce ritualist as an own profession, it won't be like their GW1 alter ego at all. Look what they did with necromancer or mesmer. These classes existed in GW1, too, but do they actually play like these in GW2? They are very different.

But Warrior, ranger and to some extent elementalist all have very similar play feel to gw1. The mechanics of the game are not as divergent as you think and a player who enjoys a hunter from WoW will be right at home on a ranger in GW2. Play feel matters and it's hard to explain. But when I say Condi scourge feels a lot like SoS ritualist, I mean it feels like SoS ritualist. Both require maintenance of their 'totems', both are Damage over time, both use some form of field control, both tend to provide minor support to allies.

They're not a 1 for 1. And what feels similar to me you might feel they're too divergent. Such as the focus on Epidemic, or the lack of shooting blobs of ectoplasm, the ability to attack in conjunction with their totems as opposed to the ritualist who rarely does.

For me, it feels like the evolution makes sense. That given the evolved mechanics and complexity of gw2 this is how the ritualist could go for its form of DPS.

If you don't feel like they are similar, you're valid in that feeling. However you need to recognize that my feelings on it as someone who's played over 6k hours of GW1 and 8k hours of GW2, the similarities I noticed are also valid.

There is a reason why people tend to gravitate towards specific classes when starting up new games even if their mechanics are divergent.

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@Kodama.6453 said:What I am caring for to transport over to GW2 is the thematic of the ritualist. An ancient spirit communer that uses souls to strengthen weapons with magical power. This is the thematic I am looking for. Spirits were fun and what I played my ritualist most with in GW1, but we already have turrets and the renegade doing something similar, that thematic is not needed that badly for me. What I am missing are the weapon spells.

Except that while they have the Mists in common, and blindfolds, that's about all they have in common.

We've already had a ritualist-like revenant elite spec and, honestly, I think it'd be a waste for ArenaNet to waste the potential of the revenant to have another elite spec that's basically just a different ritualist-like playstyle. Revenant can draw inspiration from pretty much anything, including entities that are well outside of the normal range of mortal professions. It should go for the things that just don't fit well anywhere else.

Additionally, core revenant does not mesh well with classic ritualist. The martial weapons of the core revenant make it a soldier profession at heart, and the only core legend with any form of ritualist feel is Ventari. Core necromancer in GW2, however, has moved more into the spectral realm, and therefore already seems to have already absorbed elements that were, in GW1, firmly in the ritualist's domain. Spectral claws striking at the enemy from beyond (axe, focus, staff auto) seem very on-brand to me, and marks don't seem that off-brand either. Spectral skills fit the ritualist theme to a T, there's the Shadow Fiend, and even wells and corruptions aren't really that far off brand (a well can be considered to be equivalent to one of those spirits which have an effect in a radius around them just without the actual spirit being able to be attacked, and corruptions play into the ritualist being the other GW1 profession that could sacrifice health to generate effects. GW2 just has the sacrifice in the form of conditions instead). Corporeal minions might not fit the themes as well, but do provide for a bunch of substitutes for spirits that follow you around automatically (apart from Flesh Wurm) rather than needing to be teleported around through a PvE-only skill... and with GW1's secondary profession mechanic, Rt/N Spawning Power minionmancers were a thing, although they generally weren't considered as efficient as primary necromancers

If there's some element of ritualist you really want in GW2, I think it would be a better fit layered onto necromancer as an elite specialisation rather than trying to shoehorn it into revenant. GW2 Necromancer already provides a core that has many of the same themes, options, and strengths as GW1 ritualist did, allowing the player to either go all in on what the specialisation brings or to mix and match different themes just like a GW1-style ritualist could (yes, a ritualist COULD specialise into a particular theme... but it could also have a build that combined several, and many of its skills had synergies between skill types that encouraged this). Bolting it onto ritualist... well, first, if it's weapon spells or whatever it might be, you're going to have a set five that you're always going to have while running the legend with no ability to customise, because that's how revenant works. And unless you're running Ventari (which pretty much locks you into support if not straight healing), you're going to inevitably be swapping into something that feels more like a dervish or an assassin than a ritualist.

Any effort to recreate the ritualist through an elite specialisation is going to work a lot better on a necromancer core than a revenant, simply because the GW2 core necromancer is a lot closer to the GW1 ritualist in terms of playstyle and what sort of skills it brings to the table than the revenant is. Add it to the necromancer, and it can be integrated with the necromancer core in a way that feels like a fairly seemless fit except that the skill effects are mostly black and green rather than teal. Add it to revenant, and it's likely to end up feeling like a stitchup that might spend half its time behaving like a ritualist, but is expected to regularly swap to another playstyle which, if not support-oriented Ventari, is designed to go into close combat.

There's already one ritualist-like elite spec for revenant. Let the revenant do its own thing.

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This is my wishlist themes:

Warrior: Staff offensive and medium support burn control and and buffs while afected by fire, mantra based style where each mantra represents a fighting style, suppor, offensive, hybrid, warrior f2 would put warrior with monkey king combat animation and style for x seconds. increasing mobility and buffs when being burned.Ranger: Hammer, basicly a bunny thumper from gw1 with sumons, snare, cc, aoe pressure and support depending the summon.(trait to make sumons have defiance bar, wrecking ball elite where could rmeove stability from enemies with a rush ability, each utilities would be a summon, wheere each summon would create new utility bar skill just like rev has with the legends).Rev: Greatsword, melee and mobility + counter based, punishing player that atack mindless and spammy, with some aoe damage control abilities.Guardian: sword offhand , mobility plus burn based utilites and offhand.Necromander: rifle long range CC debuffer, that can inflect anemies to explode when they die, poison and miasma spceciality.Engenier: axe or torch, medium melee to high range, utilities are mods where engie can create several efefects on its new elite spec weapon.Mesmer: dagger, ilusionist assassin :) based on mirrors and aoe fields, creating a copy of enemy to atack it as well.Thief: focus ninja x) not much being said they keep stealth as usual, stealth and mobnbility nerfed outside this spec, buffed in this new elite spec, shadow control would allow for thief with its new elite to move within the shadows and avoid damage even while on aoe bombs, smoke field specialist and gaining diferent bonus when targets are poiosoned, dazed or blinded.

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@Lily.1935 said:But Warrior, ranger and to some extent elementalist all have very similar play feel to gw1.

No, just no. Especially for the ranger, be it pet builds, trap builds, spirit builds, interrupt builds, preparation's builds, touch builds... etc. There is not a shred of play feel in gw2's ranger alike to gw1's. And it's true for all gw2's professions, the 2 games are just way to different for anyone to claim that there is similar play feel.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Lily.1935 said:But Warrior, ranger and to some extent elementalist all have very similar play feel to gw1.

No, just no. Especially for the ranger, be it pet builds, trap builds, spirit builds, interrupt builds, preparation's builds, touch builds... etc. There is not a shred of play feel in gw2's ranger alike to gw1's. And it's true for all gw2's professions, the 2 games are just way to different for anyone to claim that there is similar play feel.

You misunderstand. You can generally determine what people will enjoy based on what they enjoy in other games. I can make recommendations to people based on what they enjoyed in say WoW or even Dungeons and Dragons.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@Lily.1935 said:But Warrior, ranger and to some extent elementalist all have very similar play feel to gw1.

No, just no. Especially for the ranger, be it pet builds, trap builds, spirit builds, interrupt builds, preparation's builds, touch builds... etc. There is not a shred of play feel in gw2's ranger alike to gw1's. And it's true for all gw2's professions, the 2 games are just way to different for anyone to claim that there is similar play feel.

You misunderstand. You can generally determine what people will enjoy based on what they enjoy in other games. I can make recommendations to people based on what they enjoyed in say WoW or even Dungeons and Dragons.

I think that's a valid point to make. For me, the playstyles I enjoyed with ranger, warrior, and elementalist in GW1 just don't transfer even in principle to their GW2 equivalents... but if I was to encourage someone to play a warrior or a ranger in GW1 based off my knowledge of their preferences, I would probably do so in GW2 as well, unless one of the new GW2 professions was a better fit. Elementalist... depends. GW2 elementalist is pretty committed to being a master of all four (if not necessarily at the same time) so if someone really wants to use a specific element, I might not necessarily encourage them to play elementalist in GW2.

Mesmer... while they're not completely different by any stretch, they do have very different focuses. GW1 mesmer is mostly about mental magic, countering enemy magic, and direct manipulation of magical energy. GW2 mesmer, on the other hand, is more of a summoner/illusionist archetype (in fact, if you've seen the discussion of what the Utopia Summoner was to be, it's basically what phantasms do now) with arcane utility effects (teleports, slow and haste effects, protective fields) and offensive spells formed from generic magical energy (although the graphics are sufficiently lightning-like that if someone really wanted to play a lightning mage in GW2, I would probably direct them to mesmer). A lot of the settings do roll these two themes together, and in Guild Wars I think the distinction is at least as much due to GW2 having different mechanics to GW1 than due to any reimagining of what the mesmer is, but I can certainly see cases where I might recommend someone to play a GW1 mesmer but the GW2 mesmer would not be as good a fit for what they want, or vice versa.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@HotDelirium.7984 said:Engineer- I want a fun- light-hearted spec like Sous Chef- splattering crippling cake-batter, buffing people with sweets (like the Bday gun), and cutting those deep like Gordon Ramsey.

I would just hate if Anet made our next elite spec a walking joke....

I said fun and light-hearted. I'm sure they won't make that but Sous Chef's are certainly not a walking joke.

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@HotDelirium.7984 said:

@HotDelirium.7984 said:Engineer- I want a fun- light-hearted spec like Sous Chef- splattering crippling cake-batter, buffing people with sweets (like the Bday gun), and cutting those deep like Gordon Ramsey.

I would just hate if Anet made our next elite spec a walking joke....

I said fun and light-hearted. I'm sure they won't make that but Sous Chef's are certainly not a walking joke.

How many Sous Chef's do you see running around throwing batter and sweets at people while they are fighting for their lives?It's a joke.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@HotDelirium.7984 said:Engineer- I want a fun- light-hearted spec like Sous Chef- splattering crippling cake-batter, buffing people with sweets (like the Bday gun), and cutting those deep like Gordon Ramsey.

I would just hate if Anet made our next elite spec a walking joke....

I said fun and light-hearted. I'm sure they won't make that but Sous Chef's are certainly not a walking joke.

How many Sous Chef's do you see running around throwing batter and sweets at people while they are fighting for their lives?It's a joke.

Have you not seen Iron Chef?! lol this game has plenty of humor to warrant it. Somebody needs a cookie...

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@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Lily.1935 said:But Warrior, ranger and to some extent elementalist all have very similar play feel to gw1.

No, just no. Especially for the ranger, be it pet builds, trap builds, spirit builds, interrupt builds, preparation's builds, touch builds... etc. There is not a shred of play feel in gw2's ranger alike to gw1's. And it's true for all gw2's professions, the 2 games are just way to different for anyone to claim that there is similar play feel.

You misunderstand. You can generally determine what people will enjoy based on what they enjoy in other games. I can make recommendations to people based on what they enjoyed in say WoW or even Dungeons and Dragons.

I think that's a valid point to make. For me, the playstyles I enjoyed with ranger, warrior, and elementalist in GW1 just don't transfer even in principle to their GW2 equivalents... but if I was to encourage someone to play a warrior or a ranger in GW1 based off my knowledge of their preferences, I would probably do so in GW2 as well, unless one of the new GW2 professions was a better fit. Elementalist... depends. GW2 elementalist is pretty committed to being a master of all four (if not necessarily at the same time) so if someone
really
wants to use a specific element, I might not necessarily encourage them to play elementalist in GW2.

Mesmer... while they're not completely different by any stretch, they do have very different focuses. GW1 mesmer is mostly about mental magic, countering enemy magic, and direct manipulation of magical energy. GW2 mesmer, on the other hand, is more of a summoner/illusionist archetype (in fact, if you've seen the discussion of what the Utopia Summoner was to be, it's basically what phantasms do now) with arcane utility effects (teleports, slow and haste effects, protective fields) and offensive spells formed from generic magical energy (although the graphics are sufficiently lightning-like that if someone really wanted to play a lightning mage in GW2, I would probably direct them to mesmer). A lot of the settings do roll these two themes together, and in Guild Wars I think the distinction is at least as much due to GW2 having different mechanics to GW1 than due to any reimagining of what the mesmer is, but I can certainly see cases where I might recommend someone to play a GW1 mesmer but the GW2 mesmer would not be as good a fit for what they want, or vice versa.

Let's talk about mesmer for a second. Because it's a class I want to love but just doesn't sell itself well for me personally.

I understand that not everything of the mesmer could be translated. Mesmer was very much about exhausting resources which isn't a thing. It's a shame that's lost and the closest thing in GW2 that comes close to that is a condi reaper with its Chill and weakness spam. And it's not really comparable.

But other elements of the Mesmer are under represented on the class. And part of that is a pulling back on their balance to make them less control focused and more deceptive. Now, I don't think that playstyle is a problem, it's fun in it's own right. Deceptive gameplay is in the mesmer flavor. But they're lacking in the more frustrating and controlling elements of that.

Like the Mesmer doesn't really use the clones anymore as these sort of bizarre punishment sort of things. Like the mesmer used to have a trait where if the clone was killed they'd pop and deal damage and cause conditions. This was cool and in line with the deceptive and controlling aspects of the mesmer. But they moved away to streamline the mesmer which is good and bad in some ways.

You don't get to see the mesmer really play with that sort of idea where if a foe kills a clone suddenly they get Frozen in place and take damage for a second and I feel design like this is strongly missing.

Mesmer has some mass disruption but nothing beyond other classes and especially not beyond say a necromancer. You have Gravity well which is great, but we lack in other more common areas.

I've mentioned before how being a foil shouldn't fall squarely on one class. And how Necromancer often acts as a foil. If you missed that post, a foil, as I define it, is a class which acts as a check to the strongest builds and strategies that is often focused on heavy control and stripping of defenses. Mesmer should be another foil with necromancer as should Spellbreaker. It should reward smart play and an intimate understanding of the meta to crack their weaknesses. Mesmers are frequently the ones needing to be cracked.

As for an elite spec which is why I'm rambling on. A ranged spec with these more controlling elements that use disruption and deception that the profession has lost from both GW1 and through the balancing of GW2.

I'd like to see some elements of GW1 adopted, such as Fevered Dreams and Fragility, but considering Necromancer adopted Epidemic and the fact that Livia apparently has Fragility it seems more likely these elements will be given to necromancer.

AoE temporary Hex like fields would work very well on Mesmer as a replacement for Shatters that they can warp the field with extended duration based on number of shattered clones would create a unique gameplay with them of "do I want to use this skill. They could use Empathy and I could deal massive damage to myself" or something like that.

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