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Can you fix EotM already


Junkpile.7439

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@Junkpile.7439 said:

@"steki.1478" said:No one stops you from playing in EotM.You won't get pips there. Kind of whole point.

They didn't add them on purpose. The whole point of EotM is to be an overflow map and if there are no big queues on each map (which applies to "empty", or almost every server), there's nothing to fix.

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Yeah EotM was created as being said as somewhere for players to fight while waiting to get into WvW. Although it somewhat backfired instead and became a place for more, lets say casual players and drew players from WvW instead. That's when they came up with the idea to make it less desirable. Went there a few times recently just to see and it seemed to be quite active from time to time though.

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Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

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@Dayra.7405 said:Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

So people who don't play prime time won't be able to play in wvw? I think this idea has been rejected so many times for the obvious reason that what you consider 'prime' isn't 'prime' to others, and your suggestion would deny wvw to a large section of the playerbase.

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@Baldrick.8967 said:

@"Dayra.7405" said:Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

So people who don't play prime time won't be able to play in wvw? I think this idea has been rejected so many times for the obvious reason that what you consider 'prime' isn't 'prime' to others, and your suggestion would deny wvw to a large section of the playerbase.

Primetime is not "anyone's primetime" but when many (most) are playing. You can even make it dynamic:WvW opens when more than 500 people (sum all 3 sides) are in the queue and shuts down when there are less than 300 left in match+queue.(200 ppl difference to avoid an up/down/up/... ).

And they can play WvW-like in EotM at times where WvW is down, for me on EB-Map put under EotM control as well (I prefer the dynamic mega-server map-instance allocation of eotM, not neccesarily the current EotM-map).

(And the WvW-dailies need to be adapted, such that you can make all them all in EotM while WVW is down)

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EoTM was created as an overflow, but did also become a place where people could level up and learn WvW and where people could go if their own server was either crushing it and didn't need more help or if their side wasn't showing up for a fight and they want a better chance of finding even numbers. Now from that you did have some bad eggs that looked to game the system, but these same people could game the WvW system with similar ties and with the goal of just ktraining. So EoTM became the scapegoat to WvW, 'if only our people weren't in EoTM we would have had more and won that fight.'. Some merit there and some not. So the real issue is that when they built the overflow they didn't calculate in the idea to tie the score into the larger WvW scoring because it blended many servers and had multiple instances and the challenges that created in lopsided maps. But.....considering periods that were introduced they could have taken periods as a way to apply score under conditions from EoTM to the regular maps, especially if they regulated how the overflows acquired people. Based on statistics over that period if the sides were in balance then scoring could have been applied and servers under those groups awarded to WvW for that period. If imbalance was in play then scoring would not be applied. This could further have been balanced by not just going with group all the green servers together but a mix of green and red while leaving blues all together. I think players could have handled the differences in their EoTM colors and their regular WvW colors so the mixing argument fell away long ago. By tieing WvW scoring in they could add in gliding, mounts, scoring, pips and rewards and tie back EoTM into regular WvW.

Alternatively since we have less population now, just bring it in as the fifth map in regular WvW and add said above and we will be even less likely to need an overflow. As a further alternate you could open it up for a 2 hour skirmish if the 3 way match up has queues on all maps. If that triggers a bonus map of EoTM is open for two hours for the three servers to send people to. There are other options outside of these but the point is there could be done more with the map.

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@Dayra.7405 said:Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

My guess is WvW becomes emptier as people who don't want to play the ktrain map with big pits everywhere just because a big guild on another BL logged off halfway through their night give up the game mode altogether.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.

As nobody is in EotM right now, please explain why you think such changes would make EotM worse?

I visited EoTM recently but hadn't been there for a long time due to the fact that it didn't aid my servers scoring. But when there after its initial launches and the period following while overflows were needed it was just like WvW, fights and empty takes just like we see on the regular maps. EoTM had more ambush spots where a few could fight and kill a much larger amount of people due to bottlenecks and that made for some really fun fights. I could see gliding adding in even more a diminish to the fights as well as mounts to a lesser extent with the speed nerfs in place.

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@ASP.8093 said:

@Dayra.7405 said:Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

My guess is WvW becomes emptier as people who don't want to play the ktrain map with big pits everywhere just because a big guild on another BL logged off halfway through their night give up the game mode altogether.

emptier than empty? WvW has only some small karma-trains and some solo daily-maker outside prime anymore.In fact, before pips got added, EotM was already better for fights in offtime than WvW, and Wvw better for karma-train, for the simple reason: when 30 ppl run around on one map (EotM) they meat more often, then when they run around on 4 maps (WvW) :)

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.There was defenders most of the time. I know. I played EotM 4-8 hours every day for years and defended much more than in normal wvw. I have17,666 defended objectives and didn't even play normal wvw between Eotm launch and pips. :D

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@Junkpile.7439 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.There was defenders most of the time. I know. I played EotM 4-8 hours every day for years and defended much more than in normal wvw. I have17,666 defended objectives and didn't even play normal wvw between Eotm launch and pips. :D

Yeah, was always fun to solo wipe a whole ktrain of upscaled on some gates. :)

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Just bring it into the fold, replace one of the alpine maps with it on a rotations so it swaps out with an alpine map every so often to spice it up. We need more maps which rotate on the weekly reset so that its not all the same, all the time. I think that would be healthy for the borderlands as those who hate Red BL and Edge often stay in EB so like their opinion hardly matters, as they never leave center as is.

Id love to have more dynamic maps that we can anticipate playing on more regularly, but then I like RvR for what it is and not the moba/battleroyal that everyone wants it to be. And Edge is my favorite map (so many memories)

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There are a lot of people in this thread that don’t seem to know the purpose of Home BLs and the Eternal Battlegrounds maps.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:Just bring it into the fold, replace one of the alpine maps with it on a rotations so it swaps out with an alpine map every so often to spice it up. We need more maps which rotate on the weekly reset so that its not all the same, all the time. I think that would be healthy for the borderlands as those who hate Red BL and Edge often stay in EB so like their opinion hardly matters, as they never leave center as is.

Id love to have more dynamic maps that we can anticipate playing on more regularly, but then I like RvR for what it is and not the moba/battleroyal that everyone wants it to be. And Edge is my favorite map (so many memories)

There would have to be significant changes to EoTM to make it work as a BL map. It isn’t designed in any way to replace an alpine (I.e home BL) map. It’s circular much like EBG. And the core of WvW would fail to flock to EoTM if EBG was deleted.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.

As nobody is in EotM right now, please explain why you think such changes would make EotM worse?

Please don’t post disingenuous comments. You know the point was it would pull some off WvW for EoTM that actually don’t like ‘fighting’.

And before you or anyone else state “we played EoTM for fun AND fights” explained why, other than the lack of introducing Pips, it died?

I would be all for adding back in traditional XP to EoTM and allow all sub level 60 toons to play there. It would be a decent tutorial to basic WvW mechanics and allow for new players to level.

But skirmish rewards? No. It’s not part of the Mists.

@Dayra.7405 said:Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

Because those people who work night shift don’t matter?

No. I play and have played NA prime all through, and I have no care if someone ‘might caps’ my stuff.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:Please don’t post disingenuous comments.

My question was serious; just because you disagree with it doesn't make what I asked disingenuous.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:You know the point was it would pull some off WvW for EoTM that actually don’t like ‘fighting’.

Ah, an answer to my disingenuous comment!

To which I will reply: and?

No really...you have failed to highlight the problem here....

pull some off WvW for EoTM that actually don’t like ‘fighting’.

You mean the people who log in with their PvE builds? Who won't join a squad or get on discord, but insist on chasing after the tag? Players who get one pushed, ruin stealth bombs, squirrel after roamers and die, and whose major contribution to the game mode is rallying enemy players, all largely in order to get their dailies done or for a Gift of Battle......those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

And that to you is a problem? Fascinating.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:Please don’t post disingenuous comments.

My question was serious; just because you disagree with it doesn't make what I asked disingenuous.

I never said I ‘disagreed‘ with The question. You knew the answer before you asked it. Clearly demonstrated by the following:

pull some off WvW for EoTM that actually don’t like ‘fighting’.

You mean the people who log in with their PvE builds? Who won't join a squad or get on discord, but insist on chasing after the tag? Players who get one pushed, ruin stealth bombs, squirrel after roamers and die, and whose major contribution to the game mode is rallying enemy players,

Thus your last point:

all largely in order to get their dailies done or for a Gift of Battle......

FYI: those things can all be done in EoTM now.

those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW.

And that to you is a problem? Fascinating.

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@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Eotm wasn't designed to be WvW, only a map where people can go while they wait in Q, so no..it shouldn't get the same rewards as WvW

We have gone thru this circlular argument before.

It's not WvW.

What's WvW?A place you go to join a team and kill people on the other side. EoTM, check.A place where scoring is done on timer and based on PPK and PPT. EoTM, check.A place that you need to take down walls and kill a lord and then cap. EoTM, check.A place where you can deploy siege. EoTM, check.A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.

So the only reason its not WvW is because they never stopped to figure out scoring. Then please fix that or get us the other replacement map for one of the other alpines or bring it up as a fifth map.

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