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Trait Ancient Seeds needs to be deleted from the game ASAP [ perma immob ranger]


anduriell.6280

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@Lazze.9870 said:

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:You're right about one thing though, you are wasting your time.

Don't even try it. You're humerous enough with your "logical conclusions".

Let me dumb this down for you. Higher damage gives the smaller group a better opportunity to punish larger groups harder, yet still survive when played well. Lower damage on the other hand, makes it easier for said large group to sustain the smaller group's bomb. The smaller group shouldn't try and sustain any of it to begin with, even when it becomes eaiser with overall less damage. If someone in the smaller group has bad positioning, that person
should
be punished by the larger group if focused properly. Not because of damage levels, but because of the share amount of people targeting him/her.

Congrats on figuring out that damage dialed way up equals more concentrated damage on the spot when you drop a bomb. First of all; there is a little bit more to WvW than that, and second of all; I'm not advocating more damage, I am arguing your suggestion to lower it even further.

Still, the opposite must also be true for your assertion to be true and, well, it isn't.

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They should remove the killable roots component and just drop a immob pulsing ground.At least with a pulsing ground AoE, it is possible to dodge out of it just before the first pulse, and avoid subsequent pulses.

Between having to target the Druid, their pet and an additional Root target immobing the player, it's just too much and works every way in the favour of the Druid.

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@Yasai.3549 said:They should remove the killable roots component and just drop a immob pulsing ground.At least with a pulsing ground AoE, it is possible to dodge out of it just before the first pulse, and avoid subsequent pulses.

Between having to target the Druid, their pet and an additional Root target immobing the player, it's just too much and works every way in the favour of the Druid.

While this is true and I do agree, how is it any different to a mesmer and its clones?

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@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

While this is true and I do agree, how is it any different to a mesmer and its clones?

Mesmer has their own set of problems still, but this problem with Druid is another thing.

Between Jarcanda's Embrace, Ancient Seeds, Vine Surge and Entangle, a target can be perma rooted for several minutes at a time if they have no access to any form of Immob removal or consistent Condi cleanse.(Not to mention all these skills have a pretty low cooldown and can be chained, and the worst of all, at least 3 of them PULSE THE IMMOB)

This is on another level compared to CI Mesmer of the past because CI Mesmer actually needed to land the interrupt portion of the daze, plus their interrupts don't last nearly as long as Druid/Ranger's

My stance : Pulsing Immobs of any kind should be removed from the competitive scene. It's the most obnoxious thing ever.

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@"anduriell.6280" said:It's difficult to find a more unfun trait to play against than that one. A passive trait which triggers from any random daze and lock you down for 5 seconds.After the nerf to power damage the kitten roots are tanky as hell. And meanwhile you soaking condi damage.

That trait has to go, a passive 10s immob every 10s in WVW is actually a perma immobilization. It is a extremely bad design and has no place in any passive trait. It's even worse than CI mirage.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ancient_Seeds

Players are complaining about entangle and other ranger skills, those aren't the issues. The issue is this trait. Even in sPvP can be problematic when you can be immob up to 7s every 20s. Passively. Add any skill with immob.

Delete Ancient seeds.

I smell a thief! who got killed and now is whining!

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@Yasai.3549 said:

While this is true and I do agree, how is it any different to a mesmer and its clones?

Mesmer has their own set of problems still, but this problem with Druid is another thing.

Between Jarcanda's Embrace, Ancient Seeds, Vine Surge and Entangle, a target can be perma rooted for several minutes at a time if they have no access to any form of Immob removal or consistent Condi cleanse.(Not to mention all these skills have a pretty low cooldown and can be chained, and the worst of all, at least 3 of them PULSE THE IMMOB)

This is on another level compared to CI Mesmer of the past because CI Mesmer actually needed to land the interrupt portion of the daze, plus their interrupts don't last nearly as long as Druid/Ranger's

My stance : Pulsing Immobs of any kind should be removed from the competitive scene. It's the most obnoxious thing ever.

Then get them! Adapt and overcome!

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@Yasai.3549 said:"...a target can be perma rooted for several minutes at a time..."

Come on mate, seriously there is no need to be totally and utterly blowing it out of all proportion like this.

Immob is countered with a condi cleanse, among other things. If your build doesn't have on demand condi cleanse, its trash.

@Yasai.3549 said:My stance : Pulsing Immobs of any kind should be removed from the competitive scene. It's the most obnoxious thing ever.

I'd posit that stealth where you cannot even see your attacker is by far more obnoxious than being forced to adapt your build to have condition cleanses. Seriously, how are you even playing the same game with no condi cleanses? You're basically hard countered by almost any condition. It's like going up against a power Rev, refusing to use dodge, armor or Protection and then coming on the forums to QQ about getting rekt and demanding the class be nerfed.

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@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:"...a target can be perma rooted for several minutes at a time..."

Immob is countered with a condi cleanse, among other things. If your build doesn't have on demand condi cleanse, its trash.

I'd posit that stealth where you cannot even see your attacker is by far more obnoxious than being forced to adapt your build to have condition cleanses. Seriously, how are you even playing the same game with no condi cleanses? You're basically hard countered by almost
any
condition. It's like going up against a power Rev, refusing to use dodge, armor or Protection and then coming on the forums to QQ about getting rekt and demanding the class be nerfed.

Unless yu are playing Warrior, Rev or Weaver with specific traits, yur never gonna have enough condi cleanses to counter back to back pulsing immobs.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:"...a target can be perma rooted for several minutes at a time..."

Immob is countered with a condi cleanse, among other things. If your build doesn't have on demand condi cleanse, its trash.

I'd posit that stealth where you cannot even see your attacker is by far more obnoxious than being forced to adapt your build to have condition cleanses. Seriously, how are you even playing the same game with no condi cleanses? You're basically hard countered by almost
any
condition. It's like going up against a power Rev, refusing to use dodge, armor or Protection and then coming on the forums to QQ about getting rekt and demanding the class be nerfed.

Unless yu are playing Warrior, Rev or Weaver with specific traits, yur never gonna have enough condi cleanses to counter back to back pulsing immobs.

You only need to cleanse it once, then you can literally just walk out of the roots before they pulse again.

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@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

You only need to cleanse it once, then you can literally just walk out of the roots before they pulse again.

Not like every single Druid build doesn't use stuff like SB Concussion Shot/Spike Trap/Smokescale stun to CC people and force them to take the pulses.

Also, unless each and every of yur cleanses cleanse more than 2 conditions, yur never gonna remove Immob as priority because Cleanses prioritize recent stacking conditions over duration conditions for clear, so all they have to do is ensure yu get tagged by repeated Bleed, Poison, or other misc. condis to keep that Immob on.

Hell, these pulses also apply bleed by default.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

You only need to cleanse it once, then you can
literally
just walk out of the roots before they pulse again.

Not like every single Druid build doesn't use stuff like SB Concussion Shot/Spike Trap/Smokescale stun to CC people and force them to take the pulses.

Also, unless each and every of yur cleanses cleanse more than 2 conditions, yur never gonna remove Immob as priority because Cleanses prioritize recent stacking conditions over duration conditions for clear, so all they have to do is ensure yu get tagged by repeated Bleed, Poison, or other misc. condis to keep that Immob on.

Hell, these pulses also apply bleed by default.

Yes, that's right. It's so easy to escape that the Druid needs to coordinate 4 skills to make it work.

Mate, if it didn't pulse it would be buried by all the other condi spam and you'd have no hope of clearing it. How do you not get that? By it pulsing it always remains at the top of the list and you can clear it as soon as it pulses with 2 clears and then walk away. Say the Druid is using the rune of the Krait, if it didn't pulse you'd need to clear the Poison, Bleed and Torment before the Immob since it is applied first. Heaven forbid you go 1v2 against a Druid and anything else because that Immob is going to be covered 100% of the time and you will need 4+ clears to get down to it.

The pulsing nature and short duration is of benefit to the person being targeted.

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@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Mate, if it didn't pulse it would be buried by all the other condi spam and you'd have no hope of clearing it. How do you not get that? By it pulsing it always remains at the top of the list and you can clear it as soon as it pulses with 2 clears and then walk away. Say the Druid is using the rune of the Krait, if it didn't pulse you'd need to clear the Poison, Bleed and Torment before the Immob since it is applied first. Heaven forbid you go 1v2 against a Druid and anything else because that Immob is going to be covered 100% of the time and you will need 4+ clears to get down to it.

Pretty damn sure duration stacking condis do not get pushed up on top.

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@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Yes, that's right. It's so easy to escape that the Druid needs to coordinate 4 skills to make it work.Druid does not need to coordinate anything, the pet will autocast knockdown every 15s, the druid only needs to auto attack with the shortbow and you will end up with at least 3 different conditions on you. Add on the top any random CC from any other enemy and the skills the druid has access to which translates in perma immob.

Anybody defending this troll trait is probably abusing it. As i said this passive trait with no interaction and has the ability to immobilize permanently in a 10 seconds cooldown has to be deleted from the game.

As somebody pointed out is in the same league as CI mesmer, and it's extremely annoying and unbalanced to play against. Add that to the excessive access to stealth and mobility.

Delete Ancient seeds as soon as possible.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

Mate, if it didn't pulse it would be buried by all the other condi spam and you'd have no hope of clearing it. How do you not get that? By it pulsing it always remains at the top of the list and you can clear it as soon as it pulses with 2 clears and then walk away. Say the Druid is using the rune of the Krait, if it didn't pulse you'd need to clear the Poison, Bleed and Torment before the Immob since it is applied first. Heaven forbid you go 1v2 against a Druid and
anything else
because that Immob is going to be covered 100% of the time and you will need 4+ clears to get down to it.

Pretty kitten sure duration stacking condis do not get pushed up on top.

You'll notice that the immob is applied first, then the Bleed from the root at the same time as the Bleeding, Poison and Torment from the Krait Runes. Using two condi clears removes the bleed and immobile, leaving the Poison and Torment. If the immobile didn't pulse, he'd have just removed the Poison and Torment, leaving the Bleeding and Immob.

So if you get condi bombed, you just need to be patient for 1s for the root to pulse, then use your clear and move away from the root. The pulsing immobile will get covered by other condis, but then it will pulse and you can remove it and walk away.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Yes, that's right. It's so easy to escape that the Druid needs to coordinate 4 skills to make it work.Druid does not need to coordinate anything, the pet will autocast knockdown every 15s, the druid only needs to auto attack with the shortbow and you will end up with at least 3 different conditions on you. Add on the top any random CC from any other enemy and the skills the druid has access to which translates in perma immob.

Anybody defending this troll trait is probably abusing it. As i said this passive trait with no interaction and has the ability to immobilize permanently in a 10 seconds cooldown has to be deleted from the game.

As somebody pointed out is in the same league as CI mesmer, and it's extremely annoying and unbalanced to play against. Add that to the excessive access to stealth and mobility.

Delete Ancient seeds as soon as possible.

What pet has a KD on a 15s CD? And seriously, if people are getting hit by pet CC, they just need to quit ignoring pets.

I don't use AS because it's next to useless, it rarely has an effect for more than 3s on anyone remotely paying attention because of how easily the roots are killed, how using a condi clear immediately after the pulse negates them completely, or how you can use a teleport or shadowstep out of them. It's a waste of a trait.

If you want to talk about troll builds, how about a perma stealth condi thief with as many sources of Immob as a Druid and also they are not pulsing with long durations, so the thief can cover the immob meaning you can NEVER remove it.

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@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:.What pet has a KD on a 15s CD? And seriously, if people are getting hit by pet CC, they just need to quit ignoring pets.

I don't use AS because it's next to useless, it rarely has an effect for more than 3s on anyone remotely paying attention because of how easily the roots are killed, how using a condi clear immediately after the pulse negates them completely, or how you can use a teleport or shadowstep out of them. It's a waste of a trait.

If you want to talk about troll builds, how about a perma stealth condi thief with as many sources of Immob as a Druid and also they are not pulsing with long durations, so the thief can cover the immob meaning you can NEVER remove it.

That’s pretty much why I dislike entangle haha

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@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:I will be quick here we are both veterans ranger mains:

  • Smockescale knockdown for 2s every 16s with BM traitline, i'm sure the gazelle can cast more often between the charge and the headbut. It has no clear animation and it looks almost like an autoattack. Very difficult to dodge it doesn't have the canines clear animations.
  • After the nerf to power damage the roots are too tanky, now you need to spend at least 2 seconds attacking that crap or waste a burst just to get free from those.

Entangle, moody terrain and SoW in my opinion those are fine. Active skills with cast time and clear animations. No excuse to ask for nerfs on those.

Ancient seeds being a passive trait which triggers every 10s for a 10s immobilise has to be deleted from the game. The trait is super unfun to play agains and brings a lot of issues if the druid uses a couple of brain cells.Any immob trait or skill has to be very careful balanced and those roots in a 10s passive trait it is not. Even in spvp with 20s ICD could become problematic.

That trait needs to be deleted from game, there is no reason to have something like that in a support focus spec.

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@Abyssisis.3971 said:If I’m understanding the skill right, it triggers on any stun, daze, knock down and launches regardless of the source, all the Druid has to do is hit them? If that is the case, wouldn’t it be better to just change the skill to only trigger on stuns, dazes, knock downs and launches that the Druid inflicts, which would mean it would trigger on lb4, gs 5/4, spike trap, shortbow 5, oh axe 4, staff swap if traited, glyph of equality and tides. Edit: and CA skill 3.

Not to mention every pet that has a launch, stun, knockdown or daze.. which is a good few of them.Plus there is always combo fields, leaps into electric fields cause daze.Lightning Wyverns can make great use of this trait now that I think about it.

Really it only highlights a problem that some have complained about for years.There not being an effective immunity phase after breaking out of a hard CC or cleansing conditions like Immob.It is far! far! far!!! to easy to get stunlocked to death in this game due to the lack of counterplay to CC.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:If I’m understanding the skill right, it triggers on any stun, daze, knock down and launches regardless of the source, all the Druid has to do is hit them? If that is the case, wouldn’t it be better to just change the skill to only trigger on stuns, dazes, knock downs and launches that the Druid inflicts, which would mean it would trigger on lb4, gs 5/4, spike trap, shortbow 5, oh axe 4, staff swap if traited, glyph of equality and tides. Edit: and CA skill 3.

Not to mention every pet that has a launch, stun, knockdown or daze.. which is a good few of them.Plus there is always combo fields, leaps into electric fields cause daze.Lightning Wyverns can make great use of this trait now that I think about it.

Really it only highlights a problem that some have complained about for years.There not being an effective immunity phase after breaking out of a hard CC or cleansing conditions like Immob.It is far! far! far!!! to easy to get stunlocked to death in this game due to the lack of counterplay to CC.

Yeah, some pets do have cc skills, but if AS was changed to trigger only on cc the Druid inflicts, then you take pet cc out of the problem, along with all the cc inflicted by everyone and everything.

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@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:If I’m understanding the skill right, it triggers on any stun, daze, knock down and launches regardless of the source, all the Druid has to do is hit them? If that is the case, wouldn’t it be better to just change the skill to only trigger on stuns, dazes, knock downs and launches that the Druid inflicts, which would mean it would trigger on lb4, gs 5/4, spike trap, shortbow 5, oh axe 4, staff swap if traited, glyph of equality and tides. Edit: and CA skill 3.

Not to mention every pet that has a launch, stun, knockdown or daze.. which is a good few of them.Plus there is always combo fields, leaps into electric fields cause daze.Lightning Wyverns can make great use of this trait now that I think about it.

Really it only highlights a problem that some have complained about for years.There not being an effective immunity phase after breaking out of a hard CC or cleansing conditions like Immob.It is far! far! far!!! to easy to get stunlocked to death in this game due to the lack of counterplay to CC.

Yeah, some pets do have cc skills, but if AS was changed to trigger only on cc the Druid inflicts, then you take pet cc out of the problem, along with all the cc inflicted by everyone and everything.

I don't think they could justify cutting the pets CC out as well, other players CC sure.But pets are a big part of the Ranger class so it would make sense that AS also counts the pets CC too.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:If I’m understanding the skill right, it triggers on any stun, daze, knock down and launches regardless of the source, all the Druid has to do is hit them? If that is the case, wouldn’t it be better to just change the skill to only trigger on stuns, dazes, knock downs and launches that the Druid inflicts, which would mean it would trigger on lb4, gs 5/4, spike trap, shortbow 5, oh axe 4, staff swap if traited, glyph of equality and tides. Edit: and CA skill 3.

Not to mention every pet that has a launch, stun, knockdown or daze.. which is a good few of them.Plus there is always combo fields, leaps into electric fields cause daze.Lightning Wyverns can make great use of this trait now that I think about it.

Really it only highlights a problem that some have complained about for years.There not being an effective immunity phase after breaking out of a hard CC or cleansing conditions like Immob.It is far! far! far!!! to easy to get stunlocked to death in this game due to the lack of counterplay to CC.

Yeah, some pets do have cc skills, but if AS was changed to trigger only on cc the Druid inflicts, then you take pet cc out of the problem, along with all the cc inflicted by everyone and everything.

I don't think they could justify cutting the pets CC out as well, other players CC sure.But pets are a big part of the Ranger class so it would make sense that AS also counts the pets CC too.

Either way, that’s how AS should function.

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@anduriell.6280 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Yes, that's right. It's so easy to escape that the Druid needs to coordinate 4 skills to make it work.Druid does not need to coordinate anything, the pet will autocast knockdown every 15s, the druid only needs to auto attack with the shortbow and you will end up with at least 3 different conditions on you. Add on the top any random CC from any other enemy and the skills the druid has access to which translates in perma immob.

Anybody defending this troll trait is probably abusing it. As i said this passive trait with no interaction and has the ability to immobilize permanently in a 10 seconds cooldown has to be deleted from the game.

As somebody pointed out is in the same league as CI mesmer, and it's extremely annoying and unbalanced to play against. Add that to the excessive access to stealth and mobility.

Delete Ancient seeds as soon as possible.

Who uses ranger in wvw its probly most useless thing there as is seriusly easy to predict you do know you can destroy roots rather easly, you want druid dead in wvw but ranger is already barly good in wvw. Like i could say remove perma stealth deadeyes or scourges shades and boon rip traits becuse they are powerfull or for example eles fire staff 5 but issue is mostly the other traits are so bad that this one is ok but it does have a prediction if you see a druid you know it uses druid for this alone

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