Dayra.7405 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @Strider Pj.2193 said:No. I play and have played NA prime all through, and I have no care if someone ‘might caps’ my stuffI don't care about night and I don't care about prime, I stopped worying about 24/7-score since years. I play in the morning, and I hate how few people are in wvw as they are distributed over 20 maps (5 tiers each 4 maps)I want an EotM back, where you have maps on demand, and you actually meat someone to fight against.@TheGrimm.5624 said:A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.This score is nonsense from a competive point of view, the skirmich score in which you play is the only one intersting.The 24/7-score is only used to fine tune balance: better off-time crew goes up, less offtime crew goes down.A game-mode where this 24/7 score isn't needed is the better game mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @TheGrimm.5624 said:@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Eotm wasn't designed to be WvW, only a map where people can go while they wait in Q, so no..it shouldn't get the same rewards as WvWWe have gone thru this circlular argument before.It's not WvW.What's WvW?A place you go to join a team and kill people on the other side. EoTM, check.A place where scoring is done on timer and based on PPK and PPT. EoTM, check.A place that you need to take down walls and kill a lord and then cap. EoTM, check.A place where you can deploy siege. EoTM, check.A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.So the only reason its not WvW is because they never stopped to figure out scoring. Then please fix that or get us the other replacement map for one of the other alpines or bring it up as a fifth map.You forgot that WvW is server based and Eotm is all green Vs all blue Vs all red that's not WvW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @Mini Crinny.6190 said:@TheGrimm.5624 said:@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Eotm wasn't designed to be WvW, only a map where people can go while they wait in Q, so no..it shouldn't get the same rewards as WvWWe have gone thru this circlular argument before.It's not WvW.What's WvW?A place you go to join a team and kill people on the other side. EoTM, check.A place where scoring is done on timer and based on PPK and PPT. EoTM, check.A place that you need to take down walls and kill a lord and then cap. EoTM, check.A place where you can deploy siege. EoTM, check.A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.So the only reason its not WvW is because they never stopped to figure out scoring. Then please fix that or get us the other replacement map for one of the other alpines or bring it up as a fifth map.You forgot that WvW is server based and Eotm is all green Vs all blue Vs all red that's not WvWNope. Didn't forget that all. Statistics accounts for answers to that issue. So again the only thing that prevents EoTM from being in WvW is the addition of it in replacement of an alpine map, an addition to the current 4 maps and/or the use of math to allow it to participate in WvW scoring since it is WvW in all other senses of the definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @Dayra.7405 said:@TheGrimm.5624 said:A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.This score is nonsense from a competive point of view, the skirmich score in which you play is the only one intersting.The 24/7-score is only used to fine tune balance: better off-time crew goes up, less offtime crew goes down.A game-mode where this 24/7 score isn't needed is the better game mode.I use this as the only example over time that people have been able to pose that EoTM is not WvW since scoring is not rolled into the week therefore should not be upgraded. Which I disagree with since its not rolled in since no one took the time to figure that out. You are arguing for the one of the positive aspects where EoTM is a place that some people did go to fight but might be looking for more even odds. Even last night in WvW there was KTrains in various spots as more than 20+ people would go after objectives that are not defended, and this was in primetime. So the excuse that KTrains only occur in EoTM is plainly false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylden Ar.3724 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @Strider Pj.2193 said:@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW. Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt. Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @Kylden Ar.3724 said:@Strider Pj.2193 said:@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW. Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt. Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless. Does WvW have people that are doing it just for GoB, yes. Did EoTM draw those people more than WvW, not sure we could prove that. Did EoTM draw more PvErs? Again not sure there is a way to measure that. Did EoTM convert people to WvW, I think we have seen forum posts on that in the past, so isn't the bigger question is how did it do that? Either way this draws more into the red herring of EoTm should not be in WvW because it might draw people away. So again...fix the exclusion part of this issue.As far as the GoB bit.....let's compromise. Give the pure PvErs a way to convert PvE currencies to GoB and give WvWers a way to convert WvW currencies into hearts. Both would be happier. And I say this as a PvXer.That said, we need more maps in WvW. It should not take this long when there are new living world season maps at the rate they come out. And no I don't buy into the argument that apline is the model, EBG is far more populated and it doesn't follow that model. The three way maps pull more people since it's better odds of better fights. And since winning means nothing, there is no reason to rotate in and try various map models. We lost a lot of people from boredom of environment over time. That's a big part of the EoTM issue. We have another three way map that is downcast for no other reason outside of the scoring and tie into WvW wasn't figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @TheGrimm.5624 said:@Kylden Ar.3724 said:@Strider Pj.2193 said:@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW. Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt. Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless. Does WvW have people that are doing it just for GoB, yes. Did EoTM draw those people more than WvW, not sure we could prove that. Did EoTM draw more PvErs? Again not sure there is a way to measure that. Did EoTM convert people to WvW, I think we have seen forum posts on that in the past, so isn't the bigger question is how did it do that? Either way this draws more into the red herring of EoTm should not be in WvW because it might draw people away. So again...fix the exclusion part of this issue.As far as the GoB bit.....let's compromise. Give the pure PvErs a way to convert PvE currencies to GoB and give WvWers a way to convert WvW currencies into hearts. Both would be happier. And I say this as a PvXer.That said, we need more maps in WvW. It should not take this long when there are new living world season maps at the rate they come out. And no I don't buy into the argument that apline is the model, EBG is far more populated and it doesn't follow that model. The three way maps pull more people since it's better odds of better fights. And since winning means nothing, there is no reason to rotate in and try various map models. We lost a lot of people from boredom of environment over time. That's a big part of the EoTM issue. We have another three way map that is downcast for no other reason outside of the scoring and tie into WvW wasn't figured out.They can get the GoB in EoTM. Please stop making it sound like they can’t. The REWARD tracks are active there.SKIRMISH tracks are the ONLY thing you can’t get in EoTM that you can get in the borderlands.The GoB isn’t the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @Strider Pj.2193 said:@TheGrimm.5624 said:@Kylden Ar.3724 said:@Strider Pj.2193 said:@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW. Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt. Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless. Does WvW have people that are doing it just for GoB, yes. Did EoTM draw those people more than WvW, not sure we could prove that. Did EoTM draw more PvErs? Again not sure there is a way to measure that. Did EoTM convert people to WvW, I think we have seen forum posts on that in the past, so isn't the bigger question is how did it do that? Either way this draws more into the red herring of EoTm should not be in WvW because it might draw people away. So again...fix the exclusion part of this issue.As far as the GoB bit.....let's compromise. Give the pure PvErs a way to convert PvE currencies to GoB and give WvWers a way to convert WvW currencies into hearts. Both would be happier. And I say this as a PvXer.That said, we need more maps in WvW. It should not take this long when there are new living world season maps at the rate they come out. And no I don't buy into the argument that apline is the model, EBG is far more populated and it doesn't follow that model. The three way maps pull more people since it's better odds of better fights. And since winning means nothing, there is no reason to rotate in and try various map models. We lost a lot of people from boredom of environment over time. That's a big part of the EoTM issue. We have another three way map that is downcast for no other reason outside of the scoring and tie into WvW wasn't figured out.They can get the GoB in EoTM. Please stop making it sound like they can’t. The REWARD tracks are active there.SKIRMISH tracks are the ONLY thing you can’t get in EoTM that you can get in the borderlands.The GoB isn’t the issue.I did not say they can't. I am actually saying GoB's issue is not an EoTM issue, it's an issue of giving people options to play their own game mode and still meet their own in game objectives. I am saying GoB isn't a point on whether EoTM should be brought fully into WvW one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @Kylden Ar.3724 said:@Strider Pj.2193 said:@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW. Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt. Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless. Oh well. They ALSO have to raid to get the raid armor.Now, if we are going to give raid rewards for strikes, and fractal rewards for dungeons, maybe we can BEGIN to have a conversation.I know of several people in my guild alone who started just doing daily’s and a reward track, but have enjoyed it and stuck around.They wouldn’t under your idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @TheGrimm.5624 said:@Strider Pj.2193 said:@TheGrimm.5624 said:@Kylden Ar.3724 said:@Strider Pj.2193 said:@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW. Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt. Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless. Does WvW have people that are doing it just for GoB, yes. Did EoTM draw those people more than WvW, not sure we could prove that. Did EoTM draw more PvErs? Again not sure there is a way to measure that. Did EoTM convert people to WvW, I think we have seen forum posts on that in the past, so isn't the bigger question is how did it do that? Either way this draws more into the red herring of EoTm should not be in WvW because it might draw people away. So again...fix the exclusion part of this issue.As far as the GoB bit.....let's compromise. Give the pure PvErs a way to convert PvE currencies to GoB and give WvWers a way to convert WvW currencies into hearts. Both would be happier. And I say this as a PvXer.That said, we need more maps in WvW. It should not take this long when there are new living world season maps at the rate they come out. And no I don't buy into the argument that apline is the model, EBG is far more populated and it doesn't follow that model. The three way maps pull more people since it's better odds of better fights. And since winning means nothing, there is no reason to rotate in and try various map models. We lost a lot of people from boredom of environment over time. That's a big part of the EoTM issue. We have another three way map that is downcast for no other reason outside of the scoring and tie into WvW wasn't figured out.They can get the GoB in EoTM. Please stop making it sound like they can’t. The REWARD tracks are active there.SKIRMISH tracks are the ONLY thing you can’t get in EoTM that you can get in the borderlands.The GoB isn’t the issue.I did not say they can't. I am actually saying GoB's issue is not an EoTM issue, it's an issue of giving people options to play their own game mode and still meet their own in game objectives. I am saying GoB isn't a point on whether EoTM should be brought fully into WvW one way or another. I can agree on that. My apologies for implying you said differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @Strider Pj.2193 said:I can agree on that. My apologies for implying you said differently.No worries, had to go back an check since I wasn't trying to imply that. This is what comes from posting without coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkpile.7439 Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 Thing about wvw is that when you learn it and play it some time how it should be played you really wanna unlearn it after that. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappre.3897 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 They can set EOTM up as a weeklong WVW event, kinda like super golem, no down state, etc. All they have to do is figure a way to award pips in the map. They don't have to develop any other features, just pips. The pip amount doesn't even have to be as lucrative as regular wvw, just give pips.It'll probably their most popular wvw event, attended by pve casuals and FTPs with multiple instances going at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhonnika.1784 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 EOTM was a fun map with some interesting concepts.... it's a shame they are just letting it all go to waste. They COULD add pips to it, but make them move at a slower rate than real maps, and then maybe some sort of currency that's like testimonies/proofs that lets you unlock hearts. That would make it worth it for a lot of people. I'd do it just to skip a few annoying hearts, for sure. I don't really see the issue in pulling people from 'real wvw' if something like this were added, because anyone going to EOTM to participate for reduced pips/currency wouldn't be going to wvw anyway... they'd likely just be in pve. Now, get em hooked on the skirmish chests, and they might very well decide to go into wvw all on their own. Win/win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 I am surprised all the people who don't like warclaw/gliders didn't leave regular wvw and play here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 @zhonnika.1784 said:I don't really see the issue in pulling people from 'real wvw' if something like this were added, because anyone going to EOTM to participate for reduced pips/currency wouldn't be going to wvw anyway... they'd likely just be in pve. There are plenty of PvE players that do WvW for the pips because they want the ring and legendary armor. Giving these players to earn the pips in a PvE karma farm removes players from WvW. Now, get em hooked on the skirmish chests, and they might very well decide to go into wvw all on their own. Win/win.Like how strikes got more people into raids? People chase rewards in this game and will generally go with the path that’s the easiest. If they can get all of the farms through a mindless PvE karma farm, then they’ll do that. It’s debatable whether EotM got more players into WvW when it was an active PvE karma farm. It certainly didn’t prepare them nor give them an accurate portrayal of WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 @Justine.6351 said:I am surprised all the people who don't like warclaw/gliders didn't leave regular wvw and play here.:) Personally I think EoTM would be all the better with them. It would reduce the complaints of people being feared off the edges (though if you were quick you could port before hitting the invis floor before) and reduce travel time which was another complaint. Take Red keep, being able to drop down on invaders below would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 How about requesting that EoTM be removed from the selection and to replace one of the two alpine borderlands? That’ll “fix it”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 No Warclaw/Glider in 2020 definitely makes the EOTM maps feel like a tedious slog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 @TheGrimm.5624 said:@Justine.6351 said:I am surprised all the people who don't like warclaw/gliders didn't leave regular wvw and play here.:) Personally I think EoTM would be all the better with them. It would reduce the complaints of people being feared off the edges (though if you were quick you could port before hitting the invis floor before) and reduce travel time which was another complaint. Take Red keep, being able to drop down on invaders below would be awesome. Can't port if you are in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 @Justine.6351 said:@TheGrimm.5624 said:@Justine.6351 said:I am surprised all the people who don't like warclaw/gliders didn't leave regular wvw and play here.:) Personally I think EoTM would be all the better with them. It would reduce the complaints of people being feared off the edges (though if you were quick you could port before hitting the invis floor before) and reduce travel time which was another complaint. Take Red keep, being able to drop down on invaders below would be awesome. Can't port if you are in combat.Yes, but a lot of people didn't DoT their targets before fearing. :) But true statement all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 @TheGrimm.5624 said:@Justine.6351 said:@TheGrimm.5624 said:@Justine.6351 said:I am surprised all the people who don't like warclaw/gliders didn't leave regular wvw and play here.:) Personally I think EoTM would be all the better with them. It would reduce the complaints of people being feared off the edges (though if you were quick you could port before hitting the invis floor before) and reduce travel time which was another complaint. Take Red keep, being able to drop down on invaders below would be awesome. Can't port if you are in combat.Yes, but a lot of people didn't DoT their targets before fearing. :) But true statement all the same.Just having fear on you puts you in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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