HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.

[Astyrah.4015]

@AdamWarlord.6782 said:

1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

1. Jungles (AB and TD) shouldn't be bright as day under the canopies of trees unless there's a big clearing. Verdant Brink and Dragon's Stand are well~decently lit
2. Try toning down Shadows and Character Model Limit :)
3. Try not to engage more than 1 pack at a time or do 1 enemy at a time, avoid the line trails from snipers, don't attack those veteran bristlebacks if you aren't sure how to fight it etc. etc... know your class' limits and utilize your CC abilities and dodges when/if possible
4. It's very easy to level up masteries (assuming you have the mastery points) in HoT, just join META trains in AB, DS and TD (or do the story until the end of Season 3)... and even if you wont farm them, just going to them when you feel like it to earn some gold will earn you decent exp as well
5. Look out for strongboxes and try to gold every adventure (these can be solo'd and most have no mobs or enemies to deal with unless you stray off-course)
6. More than half of the hero points in HoT are group events if im not mistaken, thus you need atleast 1 or 2 other people to do them. They are solo-able btw but it requires you to be very very very good at your chosen class (there's no shame or harm in being average~decent btw).
7. Lots of people do this toxic bacon HP with a full group spamming aoe heals. It's always been like that since i started playing. Just join an HP train
8. It's ok to express your feelings =)
9. Dark Souls is fun. but GW2 HoT is fun as well, maybe it just hasn't grown into you yet.

that said, as others mentioned HoT is very much trivialised with Mounts.. a cluster of Pocket Raptors for example is nothing when you can bunch em up together and CC them with the Raptor Mount's fully mastered attack for nearly half their HP... then you just aoe them and they're dead.

and finally i think HoT is okay no need to nerf it. you can definitely go through it alone if you go really careful and avoid things you think your class can't handle but if you want to be safe, bring a friend or two along with your exploring in HoT or join a big group (HP Train) to do map completion! (it's an mmorpg after all~)

[Naxos.2503]

I had similar issues with Heart of Thorns, but at launch. That said, that didn't last long. Most of what it came down to was : Build refinement, gear refinement. Contrary to core tyria, I had to adapt my skills on the fly in order to be efficient in a variety of situation. And I -had- to choose a path stat wise for my character in order to perform correctly in Heart of Thorns. Once I did that ? Perform correctly I did.

I was an engineer btw, one of the weaker classes in the game prior to elite specs. You mentionned a reaper, but you simply said "max" reaper. That isn't a build, that is a level 80 reaper that has all it's skills -available- but doesn't mean anything if the wrong ones are equipped, or equipped with non synergetic stats/sigils/runes.

To compare Heart of Thorns with Dark Souls is I think, excessive. If you were talking about raids, then yes. But the main content of the map is simply progress on your character's journey. What others have been telling you is true : it doesn't matter whether you're "casual" or "pro". Casual players have handled HoT before (including myself), what you need to understand is that the expansions do not follow Core Tyria in difficulty curve. Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire are -both- significantly more difficult than the core map on purpose. Heart of Thorns's difficulty is based on : narrow spaces, elevation, strong elite monsters surrounded by swarms, condition states. Path of Fire's difficulty is based on : large unobstructed spaces, long range enemies with long aggro range, enemies with damage mitigation, strong damage enemies with lower hp. In both cases, someone coming fresh from the core map expecting enemies on the same level as say, Orr, is going to be thoroughly trounced. Orr enemies can be handled without thinking. Not so for Path of Fire and Heart of Thorns enemies, which require accurate positioning, timed dodging, grouping to take down specific content (yes, the Balthazar one is group mandatory in most cases).

Now, let's put that in perspective to your request : There is an inherent difficulty curve to these expansions, and that difficulty curve is the reason players flock to them in order to progress and get better at the game. Do you believe it fair to -flatten- that difficulty curve to nonexistence so that it is aligned with Core Tyria in a way that the transition from one map to another is not noticeable ? What does it bring to players ? What does it achieve ? Do they get better ? Do they get enjoyment out of killing Orr level enemies for another 10 maps, with the only distinction being the landscape ?

[Harak.8397]

HoT is the best time I've had playing this game since early release. It was the first time I was presented with a challenge from regular mobs. The Mordrem felt "intelligent" when they ambushed you. Their snipers were deadly if you didn't pay attention and they had all sorts of tricks to make your life miserable. I really enjoyed the verticallity of the maps ( yes even Tangled mess... err.. depths ). Most of all I enjoyed ( and still enjoy ) running the various meta events on each maps, something that was sorely missing from Path of Fire but I digress. Overall HoT and it's lead up ( Silverwastes) made you feel like you were part of a serious war effort as you hacked your way through vines with the Pact for every step you gained.

All that being said, I can understand the point of view where one might be there for a specific purpose and having to run a chain of events in order to, maybe get a chance at looting a specific doodad might be a chore.Especially when your time is counted. The Hot maps are anything but straightforward ( but so much fun to explore ).

[QuirkyDM.2351]

As the original OP is stating their opinion, it's only fair others do the same. Gathering everyone's voices gives as an idea of how this area is viewed by a larger audience.

I started playing in March and went necro exclusively, focusing on a defensive, healing minionmancer. I was the definition of faceroll- ignoring mobs because I healed faster than they could hurt me and just did what I pleased. I only started to realize I might not be as awesome as I thought I was when I hit Dry Top and couldn't kill an elite Leeching Thrasher because I couldn't do enough damage to keep up to the thrasher's healing. So I started experimenting with a shroud camper build and investing in some berserker gear. Then in Silverwastes and I got stun locked more then once by mobs of Teragriffs. So I realized I needed a stun break in my arsenal and added that.Then in HoT, I died. A lot. I played with the build some more and went Reaper. Then I died some more, but less often. And when I died, I could usually figure out what I screwed up and how to not do it again. And week by week, I could noticeably see the improvement in my skills and my build. Even now, my chilling power reaper isn't fully meta, but I know exactly how to use it. Where HoT was once a bloodbath, I consider the entire area my playground now. I need an extra person for a few of the hero points, but I found adding that second person made even the tougher hero points pretty easy. I'll admit, Balthazar is one of the most difficult ones- it took two of us to take him down and it was not an easy fight.Not only do I not mind the difficulty of HoT, I'm grateful for it. It was far more satisfying to improve and conquer these obstacles than to have them handed to me like earlier content. The maps were initially quite confusing, but I now think of myself as a gliding master and welcome any chance to explore in three dimensions. While I've only just started PoF, HoT is by far the best part of the game I've played so far and the difficulty is part of that. Verdant Brink in particular, with its meta event chain, is the best area I've seen in the game yet.I would love a month where HoT was rolled back to its initial difficulty to see what it's like and to have a chance to test myself again.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Some are casual but talented and don't have much problems. I liked it more or less, but I also understand that some enemies dish out ridiculous amounts of damage. But you can learn to avoid them. As someone who plays on and off this may sometimes be frustrating. You mentioned you are reaper: this is by far the easiest class to get through this content, but you still seem frustrated. I don't know...

[Hashberry.4510]

This is the best open world content Anet ever made. It requires taking your time, learning the maps, learning when to solo or when to avoid. To me it was like mountain biking, that hill I had to walk up for weeks suddenly becomes something I can routinely do. Mastery, to choose a word.

[sitarskee.5738]

@AdamWarlord.6782 said:

@sitarskee.5738 said:Calling yourself a casual ain't no excuse. If you can't do it then it's not for you. You're not good enough to make that legendary.

I just hate people who see problems everywhere but not in them. You're bad, you have to change - not the environment for you so you can be less bad.

It isn't an excuse, its a fact. Not everyone can ignore tasks in real life and sit infront of a monitor and play games for hours. And as for i'm bad, not good enough to get legendary.... idk what to say, grow up mate?

Exactly the answer I expected from you. I also have a job and am out of the house 11 hours a day. I also go to the gym 6x a week and have other stuff going on in life. The fact that you can't up your game is your problem not ANet's or anyone elses on forum. Just get better and grow up, oops.

[Dadnir.5038]

It's true that the firsts steps in HoT felt quite rough back when they released it. Yet, I think it's easy enough for players to adapt to the "roughness".

[Kumouta.4985]

Seriously just get better or mess with your build, not everything has to be starter area moa faceroll difficulty, although everything is.

[Maikimaik.1974]

There is so little challenging content in this game, please don't try to take the little we have away.

[Jukhy.2431]

@"Harak.8397" said:HoT is the best time I've had playing this game since early release. It was the first time I was presented with a challenge from regular mobs. The Mordrem felt "intelligent" when they ambushed you. Their snipers were deadly if you didn't pay attention and they had all sorts of tricks to make your life miserable. I really enjoyed the verticallity of the maps ( yes even Tangled mess... err.. depths ). Most of all I enjoyed ( and still enjoy ) running the various meta events on each maps, something that was sorely missing from Path of Fire but I digress. Overall HoT and it's lead up ( Silverwastes) made you feel like you were part of a serious war effort as you hacked your way through vines with the Pact for every step you gained.

Had very similar experience.

Was it frustrating? Yes, very much so but I did learn a lot about to my character and the combat mechanics because I had to adapt my playstyle to fight the harder mobs. I'd say for the 1st time since launch the combat felt truly challenging and the victories satisfying. Went thru the whole expansion with power GS warrior and was nicknamed Whirlwind by my pals, because of the constant rapid movement skills and dodging I had to perform to stay alive.

In contrast PoF mobs were easier to handle, but some story parts were quite challenging. HoT was the opposite.

[Cyndercat.7615]

Comparing HOT to dark souls is ridiculous. HOT is about normal difficult for your average single player game. You only need to understand how active combat works, and play your classes advantages to have little issue with standard adds. Unfortunately, most people in this game dont have a clue how to actually play and just run around in random builds, never dodging then we get posts like this.

Hero points are a different issue, and making them require groups was controversial. Personally I dont mind it but I do understand the complaints, one which was addressed in POF, which are soloable. Luckily, to max out your character, you never need to complete a single champion hero point in the game so just stick to the ones you can do.

[Ayrilana.1396]

For the OP and others trying to do hero points in HoT solo:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3td33y/a_soloable_hp_guide_for_getting_all_your_specs/

There are at least three others they left off their list that any class can technically solo.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

I liked hot, as for first time it made more sens to group up, all best stories i got are actualy from hot when i invited other ppl trying to push/explore touch hordes of minions, Rhat added alot social thinks thx to that content was harder

Despend how ppl look on it, it gona be positive or negative

Map push you to find better build/gear/statsMap push you to find help/socialize with othersMap push you to break your limits, and get ful solving problems or developing strategy to kill boss :DMap teach you better doding/blocking or kait

Thats for what i loved that map and wished ther was more for it

Most problems with that map gona have casuals or ppl that can't solve problems by themself or are used to low lv skill playFor rest it was best multiple lv maps that got ever created and wher you culd eazly lost yourself xd

[Algreg.3629]

so that got to "everyone who does better than me is either a useless no-lifer or a kid" pretty fast, huh?

Well, I can only speak for myself, though I have a feeling many players are in my position, but anyway, HERE IS MY VERY IMPORTANT OPINION. I have a full-time job plus commuting and visit the gymn/dojo at least every other day. Yet I did not struggle remarkably in HOT. So maybe this really is more about you than the expansion.

And here is the kicker: Apparently, you even are a student. So here is ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT OPINION, though I am pretty sure this one is shared by almost every working person that went through U or other forms of higher education: You do not have the slightest idea what busy even means... like, not at all :)

[maddoctor.2738]

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:

2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.

Maybe that's why your experience is so much different than that of many other players, including those posting in this thread. Having horrible fps drops does make content a lot more challenging, but I'm not sure if it's something Anet can fix, the game's requirements are already so low (especially core/hot) that I don't know how much lower they can get them. Maybe lower graphics settings? Are you playing with everything on lowest already?

Also, since you talked about expansions, Path of Fire has quite higher system requirements so if your laptop lags in Hot, you are gonna have a rather bad time in Pof. And of course the upcoming next expansion should increase the graphics quality even further. Maybe it's not a matter of difficulty/challenge but rather it's time to upgrade the machine you play on.

[Westenev.5289]

Your experience is different from mine. For Necromancer, I just summoned a bunch of minions, randomly clicked traits that seemed tanky and button mashed to glory behind my meat shields. I was still in level up gear after map completion. The only HP's I didn't get solo was the mushroom queen in TD and Balthazar and Tengu in AB - the rest can be cheesed.

My advice is to learn to play another class, then return to Necromancer. Necromancer teaches a very lazy play style that I think disconnects them from actually improving at the game.

[Fueki.4753]

If people could stop bringing up Dark Souls, merely because it gets a tiny wee bit more difficult in a fundamentally different game, that'd be great.

Dark Souls is not about difficulty and it never has been.

[Cuks.8241]

2-3 hours per day (if you meant per day?) is not even close to casual. Crafting legendary is not casual. Casual in my book is a few hours per weekend. Most working people in a relationship let alone with family can't afford even close to that much time.I'm a working guy with family that plays a few hours per week and many many others also. At least from my play group no one has issues with Hot (or any OW content). Hot being difficult or any content being difficult has nothing with casual. Yeah I don't really raid but not because it is hard it's just I can't really get so much time in one piece to clear it. Casual has nothing to do with something being hard. Also this game is super casual friendly that is why so many family people play it.

[mindcircus.1506]

From the title alone I can tell you have never actually played Dark Souls.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Fueki.4753 said:If people could stop bringing up Dark Souls, merely because it gets a tiny wee bit more difficult in a fundamentally different game, that'd be great.

Dark Souls is not about difficulty and it never has been.

It got popular, propably because of some streamers and the very nature of the internet, so no suprise that people just keep repeating it. It's propably just a meme now.

[whoeverxwins.1279]

I may play more than you, but I'm disabled and have rheumatoid arthritis in my hands. But I've completed HoT, even on the original difficulty. I can solo most of it easily now. Hero point trains still run through frequently, so look for those on LFG. Otherwise, call out an HP on map chat, and people will come. Just not during a meta.

You do need to know your class. Necromancer can solo almost anything. Check your gear and traits. I run besrker minion master, though mine is now a Reaper (minions plus Rise! is almost unkillable). GS plus d/d gives me extra healing.

[Teratus.2859]

HoT was designed to punish faceroll glass canon melee builds when it came out and it still does that even despite being nerfed.But it's not hard content at all.. unless you're playing a faceroll glass canon melee build.. >.<

Darksouls aint even hard either tbh.. I get why people think so at first when they're new to the game but that all vanishes as you play and learn how to adapt to each enemy etc.It's pretty funny in the Souls game how you can go from "OMG this game is impossible!!" to "I remember this game being a lot harder.." just from getting familiar with enemy attack patterns.

GW2 aint that different, Personally I never found HoT all that hard but then I never played glass melee meta's when it came out.Even now I don't really like that playstyle, when I go full melee I either invest at least some stats into my defenses to up my survivability or I invest in some method of sustain to counter all the incoming damage.

You said you played a Reaper so I would advise getting sustain from minions, specially now that lifesteal/protect wells are no longer and option.Blood Magic (focus lifesteal traits and Transfusion GM) + Death magic (focus Minion traits all top in the line) along side Reaper and use Blood fiend, Bone Fiend, Bone Horrors, the Reapers Rise! shout and Flesh Golem.Can also get Jagged Horrors from a death magic trait as well as a AoE every time a minon dies.Get about 10-14 minions around you which is pretty easy to do and you'll have 10-14 little fleshy slaves feeding you health constantly in battle.It makes a big difference to survivability, specially since each minion you have will give you an additional +20 toughness thanks to carapace.Default minions up, Blood + Bone Fiend + Golem and the two Horrors will give you an easy 100 toughness, Hit 5 targets with rise to gain 6 shambling horrors and that goes upto 220.. kill 1 foe to get a jagged horror and that's another 20 and you'ge got almost 250 free toughness there just by your 12 minions existing.And of course each of those 12 minions will heal you by a small amount every single time they attack.

HoT shouldn't be a problem for pretty much any minion build, glassy or tank.Hell more Tanky Minion Masters can solo most things in HoT with little trouble.

[Raknar.4735]

GW2 is harder than Soulsborne games. There, I said it!

[T G.7496]

HoT was, finally, a place that demanded I learn how to actually play the game properly for the first time; build, gear, mechanics, awareness.At first I hated it. Then I decided to get better and make some changes to my relationship with the game. Slowly I moved through a love/hate period, and I did improve.Now, I love those maps;Tangled Depths is genius. I still think HoT is way more engaging than PoF, and core maps are just a nostalgic park to relax in now.There is nothing wrong with the overall game design of HoT. They wanted to create an environment for challenge, exploration and jeopardy. They nailed it.HoT fundamentally changed my relationship with, and enjoyment of this game for the better.It has nothing to do with being casual or not, it has to do with being competent or not. It really is a git gud situation, or at least a get better one. I did, bit by bit, and I'm forever grateful for that challenge; it was a really rewarding, fun experience.