Elite spec ideas for 3rd Xpac

[Kodama.6453]

@"Taril.8619" said:

But even then, there's limitations.

Say you make Chakram/Throwing Knives just skins for Daggers.

But what if you idea was for Thief or Ranger to use them? Then this doesn't work because they already can use daggers (And use them as melee weapons so can't really just use the skin and pretend they're throwing actual Chakram/Knives)

Or your other example, Polearm. What if someone's idea was to have Polearm on Guardian, Revenant, Necro or Elementalist? These classes already have Staff but don't use them in a way where someone's idea of Polearm skills would (Necro and Elementalist just hold their staff and cast magic using their left hand...)

This is one aspect that often goes overlooked.

Sure, it's easy enough to give ONE class access to a new weapon and then simply release a skin (Or several) that allows them to essentially use a new weapon type. But what if someone wants to use that weapon type on multiple classes? It's much harder to implement that, unless you start releasing say a Greataxe skin that goes ontop of a Hammer, Staff, Greatsword, Longbow, Shortbow, Rifle etc just so you can add one of these to each class to create the "Greataxe" skills for that class.

In the same instance, ANet would also have to consider current users of the weapon types potentially using the skin and ensure that their skill animations function and make sense too, meaning they may end up having to do work on multiple weapon sets worth of animations if there's some weapon types that are significantly different to these skins just because of needing to use a weapon type X class couldn't already use.

THEN in order to really please people for Fashion Wars, there'd need to be a good selection of Skins available for the weapon. Especially since weapon dyeing isn't a thing, I'm sure a lot of people would be upset if their "Brand new weapon" was limited to just a single skin (Even more so if the animations and design of the skills was made around that weapon skin).

These latter 2 points make it take nearly the same amount of work as just adding in a new weapon type altogether (It just misses out on adding items to the loot pool)

Meaning that such a method really only works when utilizing weapons that function very similarly so as to avoid having to worry about already existing skill animations and skin customization, at which point you can run into the wall of certain classes already being able to use said similar weapons. I.e. The primary candidates for Greataxe, Warrior, Guardian and Revenant, all currently HAVE a Hammer weapon. Or most of the primary candidates for a Polearm weapon, Warrior, Guardian and Revenant, 2 of them already HAVE a Staff weapon (Only Warrior doesn't).

True, this approach doesn't allow these classes to have these weapons requested. A thief is using daggers in close combat and not as throwing knives (good thing that thief can partly get something similar by using utility skills, tho, like daggerstorm, impairing daggers, distracting daggers....) or guardian not being able to get polearms.

The thing is: this kind of disappointment is already happening and you simply can't satisfy everyone, that is impossible.What do I mean with "this kind of disappointment is already happening"?

Let's say that for example I wanted my engineer to use the rifle in a sniper playstyle. Nope, not gonna happen, engineer is using the rifle as a shotgun.But deadeye, the thief elite spec, gets to use rifle as a sniper rifle. Which is exactly the same what I am proposing for chakram/polearms/other weapons. You can get that specific weapon playstyle, but it can happen that it will not be on the profession you are wishing it for. I can have the sniper playstyle, but I have to accept that I have to play a thief for this, I can't get a sniper rifle on my engineer.

About having to consider weapon animations for these specific skins.... I think we already have precedence that this is not really considered.There are many staff skins which look absolutely ridiculous when wielded by a daredevil, but here we are.

And I think there is no such thing as "primary candidates" for a greataxe, for example. This weapon can also work perfectly fine for classes like ranger or necromancer, both don't have access to hammer yet.

[Raarsi.6798]

So I'm gonna take a stab at this having likely too little an understanding of the game and even less of GW1 (literally just going off the "oh, this'll be an Asian-themed expansion" vibe), so this'll just be based off of 1) what seems to be missing from the class as a whole and 2) whatever I kitten well feel like (but hopefully and mostly just the first one).

Guardian: Given the other two elite specs, Guardian--at least to me--looks like it could use something like a proper caster for a future spec. Something like Diviner or Oracle that could have access to daggers (because core sorta already has all the caster-y weapon options) and maybe come with delay trigger effects....I'm not sure how well that would work, but I'm sure it could. It is Anet's "golden child" class after all. As for damage, I'd guess it'd go both ways since it already has a spec option for either power (Dragonhunter) AND condi (Firebrand) dps.

Warrior: Maybe a Warlord elite spec that brought more of a military theme with empowered banners and some sort of group buffs or indirect damage as "marching orders" for adrenaline spenders. I have no idea what kind of weapon it'd use because the class has nearly all of them and damage type almost seems moot because at the end of the day, it always seems like the most damage a Warrior does is to their keyboard. Monk does seem possible too though since the Asian theme is there, the weapon is there (staff), the lore is there since I think it was a GW1 class, it fits a possible support/psuedo-healer role found lacking in Warrior, and Adrenaline could be used for speed boosts or something along those lines.

Revenant: This is one of the more annoying classes for me to pin an elite spec on since not only does the stance system allow for far more potential options, but the fact that it has a habit of taking initial ideas of weapons and flipping them on their heads (i.e. melee staff, ranged hammer) makes it even worse, especially with having almost no knowledge of GW1. Looking at the other two elite specs though (a power/support/psuedo-healer and a condi/support), Revenant could make use of a more selfish spec option and maybe something caster-esque. Maybe a Mystic, and I did like that idea of "overcharging" stances, but the circumstances of them make it sound more like "possession" as a mechanic.

Ranger: Necromancer can bring a whole army (I don't know if anyone else refers to it as the "Meme-ionmancer" spec), so why not Ranger? Yes, it has a lovely array of spirits that sit there and look pretty, but how about an army of real pets? Have an elite spec that allows access to have both your main and secondary pets active simultaneously or have spirits replaced by proper pets, give it a rifle, and call it either Huntmaster or Packleader.

Engineer: Between a support (Scrapper) and a power dps (Holosmith), that means maybe a condi dps? That means likely something involving fire, which means a Torch for a weapon and something inspired by those flaming arrow launchers and early cannons, so something heavier on indirect combat. I guess Cannoneer or Pyrotech for the name since that's all I can think of right now.

Thief: At least Warrior gets banners. Pretty sure if Thief got another dps elite spec, they should just delete the whole class and start over. Support and maybe condi spec, maybe axes for weapons, and call it either Barber or Sawbones. Problem solved.

Elementalist: Well we have an elite spec that doubles down on one element (Tempest) and another elite spec that is always cycling through elements (Weaver), so maybe a spec that can become the element. Something like after a set duration or some other qualifier, the spec can become an elemental of whatever it's attuned to and gain enhanced stats based on the element with an assortment of new attacks. I'm thinking Primalist, but there could be a better name out there for it.

Mesmer: With the Cantha theme, a class built around illusions looks like a perfect fit for something close to the supernatural side of the ninja. Condi dps, MH dagger for a weapon, put more focus on illusory weapons, and call it Shadow. I'd suggest something on shatters, but after seeing Mesmers and having them explained to me multiple times, I still have no idea how the class in general works (and likely never will).

Necromancer: Honestly, after just having leveled mine, I kinda want an elite spec with a giant pet and allow it to deal damage while the caster brings various sorts of damage and support goodies, maybe a sword for a weapon, and replaces Soul Shroud with abilities to empower the pet (and maybe allies too), like a Summoner. I know it does risk sounding like an easy-mode spec and pet mechanics can be a bit too gimmicky at times, but to be fair, Necromancer is an easy-mode class regardless of spec and the other two specs work well enough for those still satisfied by them.

Apologies for the length of the post, but I felt like getting in as much as I could.

[Kodama.6453]

Speculating is fun, so I will also provide a list of possible elite specs for the next expansion.I seperate e-specs in 3 roles (dps, bruiser, support) and the third elite spec will fill the missing role.

GuardianExisting e-specs: dragonhunter (dps), firebrand (support)New e-spec: inquisitor (bruiser)

Inquisitors are fighters in the frontline trying to punish the villains in direct combat and locking them down for their allies.They are wielding swords in the offhand and their punishment skills will help them interrupting their foes by using the fear condition, making enemies flee from their holy wrath.

RevenantExisting e-specs: herald (support), renegade (dps)New e-spec: ritualist (bruiser)

Studying the ancient knowledge of the Canthan ritualists, revenants were able to use and improve some of their old techniques as true masters of the mists.They will hold enemies in place with chains crafted from the mists with their powerful scepters, envelop themselves in an armor made of the souls of the lost and also forge weapons with spiritual powers for their allies (conjured weapons).

WarriorExisting e-specs: berserker (dps), spellbreaker (bruiser)New e-spec: commander (support)

Commanders are inspiring their allies with battlefury while controlling the battlefield perfectly. Wielding staves with their banner and preparation skills, which allow them to prepare the battlefield for the perfect strategy. They are experts at sharing boons and barriers with their allies, giving them all the commands they need to survive.

EngineerExisting e-specs: scrapper (bruiser), holosmith (dps)New e-spec: plaguedoctor (support)

In the rows of the Am Fah, there have been researchers trying to improve the plague and weaponize it for their goals. They collected alot of secret knowledge about diseases and chemicals and kept using their powerful mixtures even after Shiro's defeat. Wielding maces in both hands, which are holding dangerous chemicals in their heads, and using powerful corruption skills, they will grant their allies great strength and regeneration effects. But it all comes with a cost.

RangerExisting e-specs: druid (support), soulbeast (dps)New e-spec: stampede (bruiser)

Instead of deepening their bond with one companion, stampedes are training in the woods and befriend as many animals as they can to help them in battle. And so they have perfected fighting strategies using all their animal allies at the same time to strike their foes from multiple directions at once. Their traditions are old and they are using the hammers of their ancestors in battle, fighting alongside 2 animals companions (reduced stats) and use physical skills to pin down their target so their beastly friend can dig their teeth in them.

ThiefExisting e-specs: daredevil (bruiser), deadeye (dps)New e-spec: oyabun (support)

Criminal organisations are still blooming in the underground of Kaineng and the oyabuns, leaders of powerful gangs, are holding the city in their grip.Torches to navigate in the dark alleys of the big city and giving signals. They get access to gangster skills (minions), summoning different members of their own gang specialised in different tasks like healing the wounded, scouting out enemies to increase damage and precision of their allies, or even stealing stuff (F1) for their leader.

ElementalistExisting e-specs: tempest (support), weaver (bruiser)New e-spec: purist (dps)

Instead of mastering all elements at once, purists are limiting themselves to 2 elements to achieve greater mastery and unleash even greater powers than their elementalist colleagues. To increase their concentration, patience, and precision they are training in secret monasteries with powerful mantras and archery, which made the longbow the weapon of their choice.

NecromancerExisting e-specs: reaper (dps), scourge (support)New e-spec: undertaker (bruiser)

Cantha worships their ancient heroes and therefore their tombs need to get protected. This is the task of the undertakers, necromancers which will use every method to protect the graveyards of the great heroes of the past, even if that means using the bodies and bones of less important individuals on the graveyard.They use shields as a symbol for their duty to protect, raise walls made out of bones or even impale enemies with their traps.

MesmerExisting e-specs: chronomancer (support), mirage (dps)New e-spec: siren (bruiser)

Sirens are using music and sound as a powerful weapon to manipulate their enemies. With steady feet (stability), they are dancing over the battlefield, while using beautiful melodies with their harps (shortbows) and songs (shouts) to leave the opposition stunned.Maybe they can also apply a dancing animation on stunned enemies?

That's my take for elite specs, I hope you enjoy some of them!

[Mediahead.3542]

@Kodama.6453 said:GuardianExisting e-specs: dragonhunter (dps), firebrand (support)New e-spec: inquisitor (bruiser)

Inquisitors are fighters in the frontline trying to punish the villains in direct combat and locking them down for their allies.They are wielding swords in the offhand and their punishment skills will help them interrupting their foes by using the fear condition, making enemies flee from their holy wrath.

The Inquisitor sounds like a better version of what I was going for with my Avenger idea. I've also been thinking, along with the weapon skill 3 combo attack, of giving them an Overload mechanic, similar to Tempest, where they would focus on one active virtue at a time and once fully charged, releases an aoe field based on which virtue they're using, either burning/damage (Justice), healing/cleanse (Resolve), or stability/resistance (Courage)

[Kodama.6453]

@Headcase.4618 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:

Guardian

Existing e-specs: dragonhunter (dps), firebrand (support)New e-spec: inquisitor (bruiser)

Inquisitors are fighters in the frontline trying to punish the villains in direct combat and locking them down for their allies.They are wielding swords in the offhand and their punishment skills will help them interrupting their foes by using the fear condition, making enemies flee from their holy wrath.

The Inquisitor sounds like a better version of what I was going for with my Avenger idea. I've also been thinking, along with the weapon skill 3 combo attack, of giving them an Overload mechanic, similar to Tempest, where they would focus on one active virtue at a time and once fully charged, releases an aoe field based on which virtue they're using, either burning/damage (Justice), healing/cleanse (Resolve), or stability/resistance (Courage)

I like the idea to overload virtues, might potentially fit really well with the inquisitor theme.Not entirely sure about the dual attack stuff, tho. Yeah, it is a pretty cool feature, but I don't really see it working well with the inquisitor thematic.

If I had to pick one of my specialisations to have the dual attack feature, I would personally pick the plaguedoctor.Reasoning:

1. It works well with their thematic. Plaguedoctors will become all about chemical and biological warfare. Chemical reactions are one important theme here and it just meshes really well with the idea of dual attacks, making the plaguedoctor "combine" the effects of 2 of his weapons for new, great effects.
2. Least balance disturbance. Adding dual attacks artificially creates more skills in the arsenal of the class. You will have to consider all possible weapon combinations for the profession in this feature and balance accordingly. Engineer has the smallest core weapon arsenal of all classes. Giving guardian the feature with a new offhand weapon gives them 12 new dual skills. Engineer, even with both mainhand and offhand mace, will just create 6 dual skills. Which will be easier to balance and also reduces the workload for Anet.

[Mediahead.3542]

@"Kodama.6453" said:I like the idea to overload virtues, might potentially fit really well with the inquisitor theme.Not entirely sure about the dual attack stuff, tho. Yeah, it is a pretty cool feature, but I don't really see it working well with the inquisitor thematic.

If I had to pick one of my specialisations to have the dual attack feature, I would personally pick the plaguedoctor.Reasoning:

1. It works well with their thematic. Plaguedoctors will become all about chemical and biological warfare. Chemical reactions are one important theme here and it just meshes really well with the idea of dual attacks, making the plaguedoctor "combine" the effects of 2 of his weapons for new, great effects.
2. Least balance disturbance. Adding dual attacks artificially creates more skills in the arsenal of the class. You will have to consider all possible weapon combinations for the profession in this feature and balance accordingly. Engineer has the smallest core weapon arsenal of all classes. Giving guardian the feature with a new offhand weapon gives them 12 new dual skills. Engineer, even with both mainhand and offhand mace, will just create 6 dual skills. Which will be easier to balance and also reduces the workload for Anet.

When you put it that way, I suppose it makes more sense for your plaguedoctor to have the dual attack. Although, if I may add, I feel the torch would be better suited for them for more combustible chemicals that could cause some knockback plus condi damage

[Kodama.6453]

@Headcase.4618 said:

When you put it that way, I suppose it makes more sense for your plaguedoctor to have the dual attack. Although, if I may add, I feel the torch would be better suited for them for more combustible chemicals that could cause some knockback plus condi damage

Yeah, I get where you are coming from, looking at it thematically.

I just decided for mace because of gameplay reasons.As I said, engineer is fairly limited in their weapon choices.

One thing I didn't like about holosmith was that it just gave 1 mainhand power weapon with sword.With engineer's arsenal, you just have the choice to either combine sword with a pistol in the offhand or a shield.Which is.... really limited in the end.

The next elite spec for engineer should, besides being a support spec, focus on conditions. Basically something similar like scourge, which also adds both, conditions and support to the necromancer.Which can open up some good weapon combinations, since pistol offhand and shield can both work with it, but pistol mainhand as well.

Limiting the spec to an offhand only weapon would again feel pretty bad, because that new torch would literally have just 1 weapon set combination: pistol/torch.That's why I wanted a weapon that can get used in both hands, to give us more combinations with the new weapon.With both, offhand and mainhand mace, we get the following combinations:mace/mace; mace/pistol; mace/shield; pistol/mace

Axe would also have been a possible candidate, but I decided for mace because to this point, mace isn't used by any elite spec. And mace also can just get used by the 3 heavy armor classes, I wanted to give that weapon to either a medium or light armor class. Also I thought that mace might fit thematically for plaguedoctors, considering that you could possibly make the head of the mace a flask that contains chemicals.

And using torch would also not work well with the dual skill mechanic.We would just create 3 dual skills with that weapon, just 1 of these dual skills utilises the torch. I know, I said that we should limit the balance disturbance and workload for Anet, but 3 dual skills with just 1 single dual skill for the newly unlocked weapon.... seems so underwhelming that we should completely cut the dual skill mechanic for plaguedoctor at that point.

[Mediahead.3542]

Made some changes to guardain, warrior, and engineer specs