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Update Coming to Drizzlewood Coast Meta


Fire Attunement.9835

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@Fire Attunement.9835I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@"DirtyDan.4759" said:Instead of making the player open 22 mini chests back to back, why not just make one chest and make the rewards scale based on how many keys have been used up to 22?

I don't understand what you mean by "make the rewards scale based on how many keys have been used up to 22".However each mini chest costs one key to open, thus using a single key to open one big chest would be too convenient for us.

They mean 1 big chest that give scaled rewards depending on if you have 1 or up to 23 keys so same as now just 1 click.Unsure if anet can even do that to be fair.

Yeah it seems complicated and there is also the case that someone, even having 23+ keys, would only prefer to open less than 23 chests. That solution above would kill this chance.

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So the real problem with this map remains. This isn't why people don't play or like the meta, it's the length (and the fact that it's a zerg/laggfest). I'm already bored by the thought alone. And then there is the problem of disconnecting, gl trying to get back in a map.

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@Raizel Silverius.6430 said:@Fire Attunement.9835I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

I really doubt that is an exploit. You can not enter the map with any character if you did not have a character present at the end of the meta. And you only have 5 minutes before the primary chest disappears so you are limited in the number of extra characters you can use. That's pretty specific programing decisions there that seems intentionally designed to allow multi-looting on a limited basis. Given loading times you can maybe get 8 toons into the map if you are only doing the main chest and skipping the others. So an account like I have with 70 characters has little advantage over an account with only a half dozen or so. I was avoiding the multi-looting too, thinking it might be an exploit, until I realized the limitations they had put on it and it became obvious that it was an intentional design choice. Of course, that may change with this change since all the chests will be right together and you will not have to choose between extra otters or extra loot from the other chests. being able to multi loot 25 chests instead of 1 would be rather over the top.

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No you should not be able to loot all 23 at once as some are trying to suggest. I mean they already hooking you up with them all in one spot. I mean why not put all SW bandit chests in 1 spot or Bitterfrost or hell dry top sandstorm chests. I mean we have traveled the map many times looting chest and I guess because of the length of the meta this is an issue now. Oh and og dragon stand before chests at each lane wp. You have limited time plus the wyverns stonescales and rolling jerk mobs to deal with too. Now that was stressful

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That's a nice start. But being honest, I like the largess of the 2nd meta, but tagging it along to very briefly after a boss rush is a but much. In a way, the Boss Rush is a bit problematic because while one might be tempted to enjoy fat loot from it... you need some downtime to square your stuff away and give hands a break, etc.

Please, don't anyone take this as me saying remove the boss rush or anything, I just think the pacing of the two metas back to back is exhausting. BUT THEY'RE STILL COOL (no pun intended).

Bah I'm conflicted... it's basically what I wanted but just a tad too much at once. Plus, finding maps can be a pain even a bit later into the night.

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@"Dondarrion.2748" said:Great change incoming!

Can you also perhaps look into shaving 15 minutes off the meta by the following:

  • If you participated in the south meta, your participation will be remembered and you will get the 36 Dominion Cache Keeper chests (9 x 4, is it?) also at the end. That way, when the final battle at Wolf's Crossing concludes, the meta can resume after 30 seconds to continue pushing north... now there's an artificial 15 minute break while some people go for the cache keepers, but more and more people just hang around on the central bridge at Wolf's Crossing waiting for the North meta.
  • Also, slightly speed up the part where the 3 cannons are shooting the Citadel gate... it's tedious and goes on a bit too long just running between spawning portals that are easily killed anyway.
  • Also... the Ruinbringer... is it working as it should? It's a dumb tank rolling around doing nothing while we have to spend ages killing the two shield generators. Surely there's a lot you can do to make this part of the fight more exciting. Defeat 2 shield generators, then slap the actual tank silly... it's like a sad tank rolling around getting beat up by a huge zerg. The Veteran Shaman mob in the area seems more threatening even...

Easily a possible 20-25 minutes shaved off with these changes.

The problem with "remembering the south meta" per say would be multi-looting issues for the end chest. If it isn't character based there is an issue presented with people using up to seventy one characters at a time if the time duration is lengthy along the lines of ten to fifteen minutes. The counterpoint to this is that people won't have that many keys to open enemy supply caches.Per farming guilds, the south meta has forty (40) enemy supply caches (4 per cache keeper). There's ten (10) cache keepers so that is why I think it is better off that each one spawns after successful cap of each zone. That way there would only need to be two (Yahuk Firestrike in the middle area and Rudum Wormud) that need to be killed after the assault on the bridge (Wolf's Crossing). Castor Crushpaw would be allocated to the mine in such a scenario, as it's actually closer to the spawn zone than the mine. It would also mean that the Lighthouse (NorthEast) and Village (NorthWest) have two cache keepers when assaulted which incentivize people to progress on the map even if they don't make it to the south meta. By shaving ten (10) cache keepers down to two (2) after the south meta, the potential wait time is heavily reduced if completing both metas. The profitability of the south meta remains extremely high, even in comparison to Dragonfall, so I don't think that the south meta needs that much help. The southern Drizzlewood coast would take easily an hour to complete before the Jormag Rising patch yet was quite active.

Speeding up the cannon part before the Legions hit the main Frost Citadel gate would shave maybe five (5) minutes off the entire North meta but given the boredom during this section and the lack of added value I think it's worthwhile. The cannon part reminds me a bit of the end of the Tangled Depths Chak Gerent meta where people stare at a wall ; it also reminds me of the wait during the building defenses part of the Storms of Winter meta in Bjora Marches that nobody wants to sit for until the portals actually show up. The effort saved on the cannons should be put into the Guardian Elemental so it doesn't melt immediately. If kills advanced the charge of the cannons or something akin to that it would probably be better. The amount of time spent on the cannon part is disproportionate when looking at the north meta overall.

The Ruinbringer does attack because I've been hit by it before while in a charr car. I believe it is a fire field of some sort. The Ruinbringer part should take roughly three to four (3-4) minutes with a competent group; I don't believe it is the largest issue even if it could use a shave down or perhaps an increase in available charr cars. The amount of time is comparable to the entirety of the Blood Collector + Icebrood Construct portion (to put it in perspective).

The Claw of Jormag fight from the start of the cannon scrap collection portion to the end of the boss fight is roughly eight minutes. About two minutes is spent on cannon building. Less than two minutes is spent killing the three minibosses with a decent group. Perhaps having three drop zones would help with the cannon building part.Time allotment currently: ~ 8 minutes total (<2 minutes is spent on mini bosses , ~ 2 minutes on cannon scraps, ~4 minutes hitting the Claw of Jormag)

The biggest bottlenecks right now are cannons during the Citadel portion and portals in the north meta pre-events involving Tribunes. 3 Svanir / Aberrant portal spawns aren't exactly engaging and neither is the corrupted shard event for the most part. The Dominion heavy artillery tank , destroy Artillery, free PoW event, destroy dolyak event, destroy camps, and prison warden event at least make more sense than the portals. If the portals are changed, then maybe some special missions (involving killing 100 fallen/aberrant/svanir) might take slightly longer to do but I think that if the chain itself is shorter it is better. The destroy portals special mission only requires 15 portals. In comparison , an Iron Legion Tribune takes roughly a minute and a half to kill whereas the portals take about forty five seconds to a minute even in a fast squad. Even in a squad with poor CC the artillery tank takes less than a minute ; the mine event lasts below thirty seconds easily and so does the corrupted shard and kill dolyak event. In essence , because the tribune "luring" pre-events are intended to be run concurrently ("hit all four at once" per Kirk Williford, the Senior Game Designer) the number one bottleneck is the cannon that opens up the front gate of the Frost Citadel.

edit: it seems the 2 minute wait before the siege on the Frost Citadel assault (i.e. the portals + hitting the gate) is a grace period for the map to be "closed" to new players

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Thank you for changing the location of the final chests :)

I hope you are looking into ways to reduce the time of the meta.

I got into a map that failed, then got into a new map running with a squad, and after about 15 more minutes I just got to the point that I didn't want to keep going on, knowing how much time it takes to get to the final boss of the new meta. I left the squad and quit the game. This is unusual for me.

I feel like I have to keep trying to run it now for the mastery point and the otter, because if this meta stays the way it is (dependent on the first meta), I don't think it's going to be possible to complete after the newness wears off and people get all the achievements.

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@Fire Attunement.9835 said:Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming!

Please look into the boneskinner vial drop rate issue too no drops after making an empowered weapon while players with no empowered weapons have near perfect 100% drop rate on silver and gold runs. 25+ runs in after making an empowered weapon an 0 drops does not sound like rng to me when you have people who can get 96 in 5 runs back to back.The only hope for this is that its noted by developers directly and fixed by them i cant ask for help anywhere else apparently and no one from anet has acknowledged the bug despite multiple people having it with the same connecting factor and making no progress is driving me mad.

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Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:

  1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
  2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
  3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
  4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:*Bosses:

  1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
  2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.*Champions:
  3. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.*Moral:
  4. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
  5. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.*Capture:
  6. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.*Spawning Tribunes:
  7. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
  8. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.*Dominion Catch Keepers:
  9. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
  10. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.
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@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:

  1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
  2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
  3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
  4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:*Bosses:

  1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
  2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.*Champions:
  3. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.*Moral:
  4. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
  5. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.*Capture:
  6. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.*Spawning Tribunes:
  7. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
  8. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.*Dominion Catch Keepers:
  9. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
  10. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

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@Tempest.8479 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
  1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
  2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
  3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
  4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:*Bosses:
  1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
  2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.*Champions:
  3. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.*Moral:
  4. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
  5. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.*Capture:
  6. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.*Spawning Tribunes:
  7. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
  8. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.*Dominion Catch Keepers:
  9. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
  10. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

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@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
  1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
  2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
  3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
  4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:*Bosses:
  1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
  2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.*Champions:
  3. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.*Moral:
  4. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
  5. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.*Capture:
  6. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.*Spawning Tribunes:
  7. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
  8. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.*Dominion Catch Keepers:
  9. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
  10. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

Yeah I completely understand that the list of changes wasn't necessarily meant as a suggestion to implement everything, and even if only some of those would be added I think it would be an overall positive for the health of the meta. I guess my only objection to your proposed changes was just that reducing the number of events down to 1 wouldn't make those encounters feel as meaningful, especially as these territories should theoretically be more heavily fortified given their proximity to the citadel. I 100% agree with you that numbers don't equal difficulty. I just feel like claiming those territories after 1 event would feel a bit too easy, especially coming from the southern half where capturing objectives was made to be such a big ordeal.

Thanks for the clarification on the timer change. Now that you say it like that, I could definitely see its merits. The only problem I could foresee would be some people not realizing the new meta has already started, but I think it could be solved with the proper telegraphing and wording on the timer itself.

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@Tempest.8479 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
  1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
  2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
  3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
  4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:*Bosses:
  1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
  2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.*Champions:
  3. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.*Moral:
  4. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
  5. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.*Capture:
  6. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.*Spawning Tribunes:
  7. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
  8. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.*Dominion Catch Keepers:
  9. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
  10. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

Yeah I completely understand that the list of changes wasn't necessarily meant as a suggestion to implement everything, and even if only some of those would be added I think it would be an overall positive for the health of the meta. I guess my only objection to your proposed changes was just that reducing the number of events down to 1 wouldn't make those encounters feel as meaningful, especially as these territories should theoretically be more heavily fortified given their proximity to the citadel. I 100% agree with you that numbers don't equal difficulty. I just feel like claiming those territories after 1 event would feel a bit too easy, especially coming from the southern half where capturing objectives was made to be such a big ordeal.

Thanks for the clarification on the timer change. Now that you say it like that, I could definitely see its merits. The only problem I could foresee would be some people not realizing the new meta has already started, but I think it could be solved with the proper telegraphing and wording on the timer itself.

I agree those areas should feel fortified, but oddly enough, half of them aren't, there isn't so much as a campsite, much less walls and cannons, which makes me question why we cap them in the first place. I suppose one could argue that the terrain itself holds some kind of strategic value, but honestly it feels like the only reason they put caps there is to give us a reason to fight tribunes. I think they could do without it, and just spawn those tribunes(the ones not actually guarding a camp) in the fortress.

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@"Fire Attunement.9835" said:As we mentioned on last week's Guild Chat, we've been listening to your feedback about the meta and taking it into account. With that in mind, we want to let you know about an update coming to the game next Tuesday, August 11. After the update is released, the chests that spawn throughout the map at the end of the meta will all be relocated to Claw's Roost. Now you can reap all the same rewards in one convenient location rather than searching the map!

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming!

kljr9ahie4bt.jpg

How about 1 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Memory_of_Otter in each of those smaller chests?

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@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
  1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
  2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
  3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
  4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:*Bosses:
  1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
  2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.*Champions:
  3. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.*Moral:
  4. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
  5. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.*Capture:
  6. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.*Spawning Tribunes:
  7. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
  8. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.*Dominion Catch Keepers:
  9. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
  10. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

Yeah I completely understand that the list of changes wasn't necessarily meant as a suggestion to implement everything, and even if only some of those would be added I think it would be an overall positive for the health of the meta. I guess my only objection to your proposed changes was just that reducing the number of events down to 1 wouldn't make those encounters feel as meaningful, especially as these territories should theoretically be more heavily fortified given their proximity to the citadel. I 100% agree with you that numbers don't equal difficulty. I just feel like claiming those territories after 1 event would feel a bit too easy, especially coming from the southern half where capturing objectives was made to be such a big ordeal.

Thanks for the clarification on the timer change. Now that you say it like that, I could definitely see its merits. The only problem I could foresee would be some people not realizing the new meta has already started, but I think it could be solved with the proper telegraphing and wording on the timer itself.

I agree those areas should feel fortified, but oddly enough, half of them aren't, there isn't so much as a campsite, much less walls and cannons, which makes me question why we cap them in the first place. I suppose one could argue that the terrain itself holds some kind of strategic value, but honestly it feels like the only reason they put caps there is to give us a reason to fight tribunes. I think they could do without it, and just spawn those tribunes(the ones not actually guarding a camp) in the fortress.

That's actually a really good point. What if there was a lesser version of the storm that helps push people off the northern half present the whole time? It could work similar to the frostbite aura on the Whisper of Jormag strike. That way it could be explained that the Dominion/Frost Legion didn't feel the need to fortify the citadel's immediate surroundings as much because they were using the storm itself as cover.

This could create an added layer of difficulty to the area, making it feel more oppressive to traverse on your own while also creating more of a need for support builds/the medizooka. Then they could reduce the number of events to capture the territories or move the tribunes like you suggested without it feeling like they were making things too easy for players.

I would imagine that it would also dissipate after the final assault finished, giving people time to explore without the need to rush chests only to return with a vengeance to push people off the map.

Edit: now that I think about it, it could also just work like the blizzard in Bjora. Just add a few raven shrines to the northern half and it would work imo.

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@Tempest.8479 said:

@OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:Im against splitting the meta for 4 reasons:
  1. In this map takes place the entire charr civil war from start to end, which would take weeks/months of fighting, and a long meta is a good way of representing that, giving the feel of the long drawn out conflict.
  2. In battle logic, it wouldnt make sense to advance in the north half of the map before capturing the south half, as it would cut us off from supplies and reinforcements, and place enemies on both sides, allowing them to route us.
  3. Two metas divides the map population, making each event within the meta, and thus the overall meta take longer to complete, and increases the risk of meta failure.
  4. This meta is a unique and organic set of events, that shouldnt be replicated in other maps, but definitely deserves its place in the game as it gives this epic feeling of being in a prolonged battle, having to capture, hold, and advance, and fight your way acrost the entire map.

That said however, 2.5hrs IS definitely too long. Some people only have that much time to play, and dont want to spend it all in just one map. Other people dont even have that much time and cant finish the meta. And many of the achievements require rng drops, which each time you fail to get, require another 2.5hrs just to try again. This can be extremely irritating, especially on a limited play schedule. So the event DOES NEED to be shortened.

Here's a few minor cuts that individually dont seem to effect each event that much, but overall can make a big difference how long it takes to complete the entire meta:*Bosses:
  1. Cut the Health Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.
  2. Cut the Break Bar by 5~15% depending on how important the boss is.*Champions:
  3. During meta events deactivate champion loot from all random champion spawns that are not nessisary to progress the meta, this will discourage champion farming when players should be attacking the boss.*Moral:
  4. Cut down on the amount of moral needed to start the next event.
  5. Cut down on the amount of demoralization needed to spawn the boss.*Capture:
  6. Cut down on the time you need to stand in the capture circle.*Spawning Tribunes:
  7. Instead of 3 events required to spawn the next Tribune, make it only 1, randonly selected of the possible options.
  8. Instead of 3 portals or 3 cannons needed to be destroyed to complete an event, make it 1.*Dominion Catch Keepers:
  9. Have Kasmeer follow you to each dominion Catch Keeper, and place a portal to the next. Or have a Char Chopper arrive after you defeat a catch keeper, taking you to the next.
  10. After all Catch Keepers are destroyed, start the north half of the meta immediately. The timer can still remain giving people a chance to collect loot, but dont keep the meta waiting.

I completely agree with you on keeping the meta together and I agree with you on a lot of mechanical changes, except for certain things like the reduction of boss health and breakbars. I feel that by shortening the length of the event somewhat, the actual encounters should become more meaningful and difficult to compensate. I also think that maybe reducing the events needed to spawn tribunes to 1 might be going too much in the other direction, unless the one event that was left would take as long as at least 1.5 events currently. I'd probably reduce it to 2 events before tribune spawn and see how that affects the meta length before going down to 1. I'm also unclear what you mean by keeping the timer but stating the northern half immediately. Wouldn't the timer serve no purpose if the meta has already progressed?

Hey, so I was just listing every possible shortening method I could think of. They dont have to do all of this, but any combo of it could help trim things down and the more they trim the shorter it becomes.

Imo the tribune spawning events were never difficult, they were only time consuming, so trimming them to 1 removes no difficulty, it only speeds things up. If they want to make the events themselves more difficult, by all means, but I in no way believe numbers create difficulty.

As for the timer bit, currently when it hits zero, all the loot chest dissapear and the next event begins. What I was proposing is that as soon as the last keeper dies, the next event starts immediatly, regardless of how much time is left. But the timer remains, not as an event fail timer, but a hurry up and get your chest while they are still available timer. Because if the chest dissapeared immediately as soon as the last catch keeper died, a lot of people wouldnt get them.

Yeah I completely understand that the list of changes wasn't necessarily meant as a suggestion to implement everything, and even if only some of those would be added I think it would be an overall positive for the health of the meta. I guess my only objection to your proposed changes was just that reducing the number of events down to 1 wouldn't make those encounters feel as meaningful, especially as these territories should theoretically be more heavily fortified given their proximity to the citadel. I 100% agree with you that numbers don't equal difficulty. I just feel like claiming those territories after 1 event would feel a bit too easy, especially coming from the southern half where capturing objectives was made to be such a big ordeal.

Thanks for the clarification on the timer change. Now that you say it like that, I could definitely see its merits. The only problem I could foresee would be some people not realizing the new meta has already started, but I think it could be solved with the proper telegraphing and wording on the timer itself.

I agree those areas should feel fortified, but oddly enough, half of them aren't, there isn't so much as a campsite, much less walls and cannons, which makes me question why we cap them in the first place. I suppose one could argue that the terrain itself holds some kind of strategic value, but honestly it feels like the only reason they put caps there is to give us a reason to fight tribunes. I think they could do without it, and just spawn those tribunes(the ones not actually guarding a camp) in the fortress.

That's actually a really good point. What if there was a lesser version of the storm that helps push people off the northern half present the whole time? It could work similar to the frostbite aura on the Whisper of Jormag strike. That way it could be explained that the Dominion/Frost Legion didn't feel the need to fortify the citadel's immediate surroundings as much because they were using the storm itself as cover.

This could create an added layer of difficulty to the area, making it feel more oppressive to traverse on your own while also creating more of a need for support builds/the medizooka. Then they could reduce the number of events to capture the territories or move the tribunes like you suggested without it feeling like they were making things too easy for players.

I would imagine that it would also dissipate after the final assault finished, giving people time to explore without the need to rush chests only to return with a vengeance to push people off the map.

Edit: now that I think about it, it could also just work like the blizzard in Bjora. Just add a few raven shrines to the northern half and it would work imo.

I LOVE that because it gives more value to the raven's masteries, which currently only help with one map, and thus make the grind for them feel worthless.

Conversely, instead of placing the extra Tribunes in the Citadel they could make them also spawn in the fortified camps, so you'd have to fight two or three tribunes at once, that would also give added dificulty.

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multiloot is problem? not for me, I am not use it and not panic. And I don't scare if is will be disabled.BUT I am scare if it will be disable as in DragonStand, when you can join on half way, or after router restart you can be sure that this map also not for you, no matter have mirror to much players or not. Continued reward from any start point is more solid and chill way for me and I hope for others too.

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In addition to all of the feedback already provided, can I also request that additional options for commendations be added? I'd like to have a "Split my commendations between the Dominion and Corrupted" and a "Split my commendations six ways between all the factions" as well.

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