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Dear PvE Skill design Team : Stop Buffing Necromancer please..please

Arheundel.6451

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misterman.1530

misterman.1530

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:GW2 was promoted as a multi gamemode triple A MMO , but right now PvE balance takes absolute precedence above everything else , this is more a general assumption then condemnation but watching how the balance has been shaping up lately...one can only wonder where the priorities lies here. Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

The addition of traits like this :https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Onslaughthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Martyr

May look like a good idea for PvE but.....far less so for PvP/WvW; Necromancer is currently overperforming in PvP/WvW, I am sure the Devs must have taken notice of the sheer amount of necro players in the competitive environment atm, the community certainly has :

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111480/75-of-2v2-players-are-necros#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111490/please-consider-toning-down-reaper#latesthttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/110668/why-is-lich-still-aaing-for-6k#latest

In WvW the situation with necros is far worse than PvP , the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly Broken and no other class compares atm in terms of sustain/damage ratio. The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

The class simply has been buffed above any reasonable threshold and this is now even more apparent after the Feb 2020 Patch, now I pray the future balance patches will bring this overabused and overstacked monster finally under control.

Lol. It seems you know very little about Necros. In WvW I can easily solo a reaper on a core necro. They are far, far, far from overpowered. Invincible Engis are overpowered. Perma Stealth Thieves are overpowered. But not reapers.

Permaspeed! Lol. Oh, the irony of complaining about superspeed in quite possibly the least mobile class in the game. If a Longbow ranger gets killed by a Necro of any type, the ranger needs to get some practice. It can happen, and I've done it, but it shouldn't. The necro should never get within 1200 range of the Ranger.

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@"LucianDK.8615" said:Op clearly have no idea what they are talking about. In pve its one of the lowest performing classes.

If people fail at Necro...I dunno what to say, the class is made specifically with "no effort" in mind...I don't think those complaining about Necro ever played another MMO or just another class in this game

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@misterman.1530 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:GW2 was promoted as a multi gamemode triple A MMO , but right now
PvE balance takes absolute precedence above everything else
, this is more a general assumption then condemnation but watching how the balance has been shaping up lately...one can only wonder where the priorities lies here. Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

The addition of traits like this :

May look like a good idea for PvE but.....far less so for PvP/WvW;
Necromancer is currently overperforming
in PvP/WvW, I am sure the Devs must have taken notice of the sheer amount of necro players in the competitive environment atm, the community certainly has :

In WvW the situation with necros is
far worse than PvP
, the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly
Broken
and no other class compares atm in terms of sustain/damage ratio. The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

The class simply has been buffed above any reasonable threshold and this is now even more apparent after the Feb 2020 Patch, now I pray the future balance patches will bring this overabused and overstacked monster finally under control.

Lol. It seems you know very little about Necros. In WvW I can easily solo a reaper on a core necro. They are far, far, far from overpowered. Invincible Engis are overpowered. Perma Stealth Thieves are overpowered. But not reapers.

Permaspeed! Lol. Oh, the irony of complaining about superspeed in quite possibly the least mobile class in the game. If a Longbow ranger gets killed by a Necro of any type, the ranger needs to get some practice. It can happen, and I've done it, but it shouldn't. The necro should never get within 1200 range of the Ranger.

Necromancer is a low effort profession with a disproportionated reward output

There is nothing the necro community can say atm , players statics are for everyone to see...the nerfs I know will come, it's not a matter of whether they're coming...it's when they're coming

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Taril.8619

Taril.8619

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:the nerfs I know will come, it's not a matter of whether they're coming...it's when they're coming

Of course they will. It's Necro. They're not allowed nice things.

Them and Mesmer are the punching bag of the balance team... "Oh they can do something, nerf them!" "Oh something they have isn't performing up to par? Nerf it!" "I'm hungry... Nerf them!" "Hey, people are having fun with the class... Delete something!"

They're not a blessed class like Guardian who never gets nerfed or when they do it's a light tap on the wrist (While Necro and Mesmer can get hit by a 1000 ton nerf hammer for no reason)

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Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:GW2 was promoted as a multi gamemode triple A MMO , but right now
PvE balance takes absolute precedence above everything else
, this is more a general assumption then condemnation but watching how the balance has been shaping up lately...one can only wonder where the priorities lies here. Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

The addition of traits like this :

May look like a good idea for PvE but.....far less so for PvP/WvW;
Necromancer is currently overperforming
in PvP/WvW, I am sure the Devs must have taken notice of the sheer amount of necro players in the competitive environment atm, the community certainly has :

In WvW the situation with necros is
far worse than PvP
, the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly
Broken
and no other class compares atm in terms of sustain/damage ratio. The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

The class simply has been buffed above any reasonable threshold and this is now even more apparent after the Feb 2020 Patch, now I pray the future balance patches will bring this overabused and overstacked monster finally under control.

Lol. It seems you know very little about Necros. In WvW I can easily solo a reaper on a core necro. They are far, far, far from overpowered. Invincible Engis are overpowered. Perma Stealth Thieves are overpowered. But not reapers.

Permaspeed! Lol. Oh, the irony of complaining about superspeed in quite possibly the least mobile class in the game. If a Longbow ranger gets killed by a Necro of any type, the ranger needs to get some practice. It can happen, and I've done it, but it shouldn't. The necro should never get within 1200 range of the Ranger.

Necromancer is a low effort profession with a disproportionated reward output

There is nothing the necro community can say atm , players statics are for everyone to see...the nerfs I know will come, it's not a matter of whether they're coming...it's when they're coming

You do know montages are terrible to use as any sort of argument right?

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Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

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  • One is about a sub game mode format where the key downfalls of necromancer don't apply and in fact it plays directly into its strengths, its not even the main game mode of the subsection and its not, and never will be ,balanced for it. In the thread people also admit it may slightly be a) opinionated , b) embellished, and c) anecdotal.
  • One of the threads is made by a known complainer to the point where someone has made a template of their "please nerf X" threads thats historically and hysterically accurate.
  • The last has its merits..but its also filled with people acknowledging they can counter it..but choosing not to not accepting they got outplayed. Some of these people would still die even if lich lost 33% of its damage.

Reaper was designed to be slow in the first place, slow and hard hitting!This one always bothers me. Reaper is slow. Its just on the meta builds in PvP almost every build choice is about making reaper faster.The same can be said about "necro also has 100% lf" exaggerated complaints. Again look at the builds..most choices are about building lf quickly.

There is a reason the utility bar is mostly spectral skills, stun breaks or abilities that involve being able to move around.

Also necromancer hasn't really been buffed at all since February . In fact in PvP its routinely been nerfed.

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Agrippa.1693

Agrippa.1693

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@Taril.8619 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:the nerfs I know will come, it's not a matter of whether they're coming...it's when they're coming

Of course they will. It's Necro. They're not allowed nice things.

Them and Mesmer are the punching bag of the balance team... "Oh they can do something, nerf them!" "Oh something they have isn't performing up to par? Nerf it!" "I'm hungry... Nerf them!" "Hey, people are having fun with the class... Delete something!"

They're not a blessed class like Guardian who never gets nerfed or when they do it's a light tap on the wrist (While Necro and Mesmer can get hit by a 1000 ton nerf hammer for no reason)

Don't comment on this guy, he's clearly trolling, he either knows full well that Necro is in a bad state atm ... OR this guy has never played with Necro and is really bad at the game and doesnt know how to counter a Necro ... (Hint: STUN)!

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Mini Crinny.6190

Mini Crinny.6190

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:And yet here we are again, Benchmarks don't really mean anything just a golem standing still with all the boons permanently on you, why do people think it means something?

Ele (Weaver) being a perfect example of why benchmarks are pretty bad to go on, while Power BttH being the highest Damage, it's not used in any raid, this doesn't mean though that Weaver is useless and the same goes for NecroDo some 1 minute research and watch the snowcrows recommenadations for endgame content. Reaper is insufficient to mediocre for ever single raid instance, while the other posted builds are rated a lot higher. So your golem argument is untenable.

Speaking about open world: try to solo some champs on the 33.5k reaper build. I'd like to see how far you get. You will notice this build is squishy as hell and every other class in the game offers a lot more sustain on a 33.5k dps build.

Today is a weird day. Bronze divisions players start pvp threads about how broken reaper is in pvp because they can't handle a few chills of a build that can't even cover these with other conditions. And here we can find players that draw performance conclusions from killing trashmobs in the cursed shore map or in a level 1 fractal.

When did I say necro was strong in open world? You can play any class you like in Open world it don't matter

Again, when did I say necro being strong on T1 fractals or cursed shore map?

And again you fail to read what I put, you don't have to be top DPS to be meta in raids, I just mentioned Weaver being a good example for it of being top DPS on a Golem but according to snowcrows, isn't meta on any raid boss.

So before you jump in all guns blazing, try to atleast read what I put.

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misterman.1530

misterman.1530

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:GW2 was promoted as a multi gamemode triple A MMO , but right now
PvE balance takes absolute precedence above everything else
, this is more a general assumption then condemnation but watching how the balance has been shaping up lately...one can only wonder where the priorities lies here. Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

The addition of traits like this :

May look like a good idea for PvE but.....far less so for PvP/WvW;
Necromancer is currently overperforming
in PvP/WvW, I am sure the Devs must have taken notice of the sheer amount of necro players in the competitive environment atm, the community certainly has :

In WvW the situation with necros is
far worse than PvP
, the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly
Broken
and no other class compares atm in terms of sustain/damage ratio. The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

The class simply has been buffed above any reasonable threshold and this is now even more apparent after the Feb 2020 Patch, now I pray the future balance patches will bring this overabused and overstacked monster finally under control.

Lol. It seems you know very little about Necros. In WvW I can easily solo a reaper on a core necro. They are far, far, far from overpowered. Invincible Engis are overpowered. Perma Stealth Thieves are overpowered. But not reapers.

Permaspeed! Lol. Oh, the irony of complaining about superspeed in quite possibly the least mobile class in the game. If a Longbow ranger gets killed by a Necro of any type, the ranger needs to get some practice. It can happen, and I've done it, but it shouldn't. The necro should never get within 1200 range of the Ranger.

Necromancer is a low effort profession with a disproportionated reward output

There is nothing the necro community can say atm , players statics are for everyone to see...the nerfs I know will come, it's not a matter of whether they're coming...it's when they're coming

Lol. So you show a montage of a reaper...moving very, very slowly...facing a string of players of questionable skill. I, too, could make a video of any class and tell my ranger friend to walk up to me, not hit any major skill, and cooperatively up and die. Montages are meaningless without context.

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jpsssss.7530

jpsssss.7530

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Here's the thing about Reaper: If they nerf its damage output anymore (not to mention quickness on reaper's onslaught over straight atk speed was a huge nerf because boon strips and corrupts) They may have to give it defensive skills to compensate. Reaper shroud has almost double the decay rate of death shroud and is melee range which is a double whammy. On top of that, while reaper has access to 3 possible gap closers (GS 5, spectral yoink, and reaper shroud 2) only one can be used in shroud and the other 2 have pretty high cooldowns for what they do. Reaper is also the least mobile class. It has to have high damage to compensate for low mobility and essentially non-existent damage negation, which EVERY other class has in the forms of stealth, block, evade, or invulnerability, based on class.

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ZDragon.3046

ZDragon.3046

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:GW2 was promoted as a multi gamemode triple A MMO , but right now
PvE balance takes absolute precedence above everything else
, this is more a general assumption then condemnation but watching how the balance has been shaping up lately...one can only wonder where the priorities lies here. Maybe somebody may want to correct me on this but buffing a class repeatedly so that it may occupy a better spot in PvE end content, while having a complete disregard for the competitive aspect of the game...doesn't look like a great plan to me.

The addition of traits like this :

May look like a good idea for PvE but.....far less so for PvP/WvW;
Necromancer is currently overperforming
in PvP/WvW, I am sure the Devs must have taken notice of the sheer amount of necro players in the competitive environment atm, the community certainly has :

In WvW the situation with necros is
far worse than PvP
, the slaps on the wrists for scourge barely touched the surface ...the class is utterly
Broken
and no other class compares atm in terms of sustain/damage ratio. The combination of : perma quickness - perma superspeed in combat and spammable ranged chill makes Necro far too oppressive to fight even for "rangers" which supposedly were to counter necros

The class simply has been buffed above any reasonable threshold and this is now even more apparent after the Feb 2020 Patch, now I pray the future balance patches will bring this overabused and overstacked monster finally under control.

Lol. It seems you know very little about Necros. In WvW I can easily solo a reaper on a core necro. They are far, far, far from overpowered. Invincible Engis are overpowered. Perma Stealth Thieves are overpowered. But not reapers.

Permaspeed! Lol. Oh, the irony of complaining about superspeed in quite possibly the least mobile class in the game. If a Longbow ranger gets killed by a Necro of any type, the ranger needs to get some practice. It can happen, and I've done it, but it shouldn't. The necro should never get within 1200 range of the Ranger.

Necromancer is a low effort profession with a disproportionated reward output

There is nothing the necro community can say atm , players statics are for everyone to see...the nerfs I know will come, it's not a matter of whether they're coming...it's when they're coming

Scourge requires high effort but still has poor reward output would you then say scourge needs bigger more massive buffs to make up for that. No you wouldnt.

In terms of neco o reaper dps its still at the bottom of the pool when you put it up against most other profession options.Its also at the bottom of the pool in term of active defenses when you put it up against other profession options.

Reaper does good in pve when a group is "meh" on boons or simply cannot properly do mechanics because its very self suffesant at providing 2 main boons that define gw2 end game.Might and QuicknessReaper can easily self supply these 2 key boons to maximize its damage at least during the shroud parts of its rotation for maximized damage where as other professions cannot. Thus reaper will look really good in solo play or bad groups. The down side of this is that reaper is locked to mainly only might as a boon and quickness is locked to reaper shroud only.There is no regen, protection is minimal, superspeed is not a thing, swiftness is minimal, no agies, no vigor, very limited stability, and on top of this reaper cannot provide any boon share or support to other professions it has one thing its some what self good at doing and that is doing damage. Where you think you have a good idea in saying it needs nerfs in pve thus it also needs nerfs in pvp is beyond me considering they dont perform anywhere near the same in those two modes.

Other professions like Guardian, Ranger, Ele, Mesmer, Warrior, can all multi role and have much better dps test numbers than Reaper does and Necro at best can do only 2 roles. DPS and Heal Scourge. People mainly only ever want heal scourge for the power res and down state tp insurance as their raw healing numbers are not that great in comparison to something like tempest, heal brand, or druid.

Honestly it sounds like you just thought necro was gonna be free an got out played because you may have turned your brain off. You accuse a profession of being so low effort that you possibly turned your own brain off when attempting to go up against it then are surprised when the necro player out smarts you and gets a kill. Thus it needs anerf.Do you even read the patch notes? The changes that came to pve basically got undone in pvp and wvw the next day. The wells were and out right nerf in pvp and wvw.

There are lots of low effort builds in this game that are not that hard to play and can easily be effective in doing just as much damage as reaper or more in pve or pvp.For this reason no one is really going to agree with your post regardless of if they are necro mains or not.

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KrHome.1920

KrHome.1920

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I can show a montage of a core warrior destroying 3 noobs in wvw with whirling axe. (Seriously: I have seen that happen!)

And the skill has even the potential to destroy 5 noobs until it reaches its target cap.

That skill needs a serious nerf, I can tell you!

Non-ironic side-note:Staff/axe reaper is the weakest reaper solo roaming build you can run (even staff/gs or a mh-dagger build is better). That's a 100% team fighter and is only used in tournaments (and not even there to a large extent). I destroy staff power reapers every day in wvw 1v1 encounters. If that guy in the video encounters 3 players of my game experience and skill, he is dead before he can land one single hit and that scene will never make its way into any youtube video.

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Apokriphos.7042

Apokriphos.7042

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@Arheundel.6451 said:Once again I will be vindicated when the nerfs will drop...until then do have fun with your new toys

You say new toys but.. they were nerfed and even weakened below the change the same day they went in. Anet gave back the scourge shade corrupts and took away the target cap to the point they are far less common in wvw then ever before.

Anet also nerfed signet trait to be functionally worse then before &! only work in shroud. We got a useless 'blood bank' trait that functionality might as well not exist, since its an option for basically no builds in gw2.

Lastly, they nerfed the healing on the locust signet to be 1/3rd as good as before. All the while no other profession got such harsh treatment post the latest 'balance' patch.

I think you might be suffering from an extreme lack of perspective, along with all the criticisms levied by previous posters.

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ASP.8093

ASP.8093

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:Necromancer is a low effort profession with a disproportionated reward output

There is nothing the necro community can say atm , players statics are for everyone to see...the nerfs I know will come, it's not a matter of whether they're coming...it's when they're coming

Watching this, I'm mostly struck by how slow it is. Big telegraphed movements, having to spin-to-win on a corpse because your safe stomp options suck, just generally trying to attrition you way through fights despite being wrapped in full Marauders'.

I don't think I'm watching a weak build or a weak player, but this just doesn't seem oppressive to me in any substantive way.

And you'll note he sacrifices a good bit of the "necro OP!!!" stuff listed at the top of the thread -- Speed runes, movement condi clears, Shroud skill cooldowns, the big damage buffs you get from Death Perception -- to achieve his particular lifeforce-tank playstyle that happens to be well-suited to fighting one-shot burst builds with poor sustain or condi-spam builds that mostly hope you die from activating 100 skills under the effects of Confusion.

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KrHome.1920

KrHome.1920

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The pacing is always a good indicator of the skill which is involved in a fight. And this is the absolute bottom.

Even necro fights look extremely dynamic if combos, pre-casts and skill cancels are involved. None of that is the case here. A fight at SM against the 5 doorguards would have been more difficult for the reaper player than what we have to witness here.

If this is average NA skill level... well, that's just great! I really hope it itsn't. I guess I would have stopped playing out of boredom, when this was my average encounter. In EU even the french and spain national servers are not THAT bad in terms of individual skill (they can only win by numbers). So if I run into such a situation, I feel sorry for that poor players, but I absolutely won't post this on youtube, because it is obvious that these guys are just terrible and why would anyone want to expose them in the internet?

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Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

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@Apokriphos.7042 said:Lastly, they nerfed the healing on the locust signet to be 1/3rd as good as before. All the while no other profession got such harsh treatment post the latest 'balance' patch.

Just want to point out that technically the skill is still better than before they buffed it. Its just slightly more inline rather than them essentially doubling, the healing on the skill.

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Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:Once again I will be vindicated when the nerfs will drop...until then do have fun with your new toys

You're going to have to explain what you mean by new toys? Doubt you will though..

You say things like:

But are you wilfully failing to realise that RO has been this was since August 2018 and UM has been in its current style since November 2017Literally nothing much about the build being run on reaper has changed in approx 2years. Soul Eater is the most recent complete change only being introduced just over a year ago.

The only thing that is different is that you now just cant press W and run over any necro with relative ease.

At the start of the game people actually had tactics for fighting necromancers..but after the power creep you didnt really need all that many, literally "just focus necro". You're entire team could be on 10% hp but as soon as you enter a fight everyone would latch onto you. People seem to have completely forgotten and cant shift mindsets from just throw everything it will eventually die and quickly.

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@"Mini Crinny.6190" said:I am afraid to post videos of me playing Reaper, It's potentially game breaking material

Oh look...an ele refugee , look how happy you are now with something "else" to play...so you are a necro main XD, ready to join the necro police ..how sad. You changed balance view quite easily once you jumped ship

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Mini Crinny.6190

Mini Crinny.6190

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Mini Crinny.6190" said:I am afraid to post videos of me playing Reaper, It's potentially game breaking material

Oh look...
an ele refugee
, look how happy you are now with something "else" to play...so you are a necro main XD, ready to join the
necro police
..how sad. You changed balance view quite easily once you jumped ship

Lol no, I just play multiple classes so have some sort of understanding of the classes I play. is there anything wrong with that?

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