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Fire Attunement.9835

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@"Zaxares.5419" said:In addition to all of the feedback already provided, can I also request that additional options for commendations be added? I'd like to have a "Split my commendations between the Dominion and Corrupted" and a "Split my commendations six ways between all the factions" as well.

Agreed! If a fractal/raid npc can go through a loop of which golems to apply, ect - then we can have which commendation to split between. and a single "reset" (or equally distribute) button.

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The problem (in my opinion) is not having to run around to collect loot from chests once Claw is defeated. It takes way too much time to complete the southern meta event chain, then wait 15 more minutes for the cache champions to be defeated (or not), then push the north meta events, go all the way through the frost citadel. It can take up to 2-2,5 hours. Many people are fed up with the grinding nature of the achievements in the latest Icebrood Saga episodes, especially those that have mastery points locked behind them. Even myself, maxed the last mastery just last night, because I was avoiding playing in the map. You did a great job back then, splitting the pre-events from the main meta events in Verdant Brink, Auric Basin and Tangled Depths. Slightly made Dragon Stand faster as well. The same can be done now, in a rather easy and non-gamebreaking manner: War Supplies! Split the southern and northern meta events and put them on fixed time schedule, bihourly I guess. But for the northern meta to even begin, have players donate X amount of War Supplies to a NPC, otherwise the event will not begin. At least we'll have a reason to use War Supplies this way.

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@Naeleen.7601 said:The problem (in my opinion) is not having to run around to collect loot from chests once Claw is defeated. It takes way too much time to complete the southern meta event chain, then wait 15 more minutes for the cache champions to be defeated (or not), then push the north meta events, go all the way through the frost citadel. It can take up to 2-2,5 hours. Many people are fed up with the grinding nature of the achievements in the latest Icebrood Saga episodes, especially those that have mastery points locked behind them. Even myself, maxed the last mastery just last night, because I was avoiding playing in the map. You did a great job back then, splitting the pre-events from the main meta events in Verdant Brink, Auric Basin and Tangled Depths. Slightly made Dragon Stand faster as well. The same can be done now, in a rather easy and non-gamebreaking manner: War Supplies! Split the southern and northern meta events and put them on fixed time schedule, bihourly I guess. But for the northern meta to even begin, have players donate X amount of War Supplies to a NPC, otherwise the event will not begin. At least we'll have a reason to use War Supplies this way.

So buying keys aint good enough?

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@Naeleen.7601 said:The problem (in my opinion) is not having to run around to collect loot from chests once Claw is defeated. It takes way too much time to complete the southern meta event chain, then wait 15 more minutes for the cache champions to be defeated (or not), then push the north meta events, go all the way through the frost citadel. It can take up to 2-2,5 hours. Many people are fed up with the grinding nature of the achievements in the latest Icebrood Saga episodes, especially those that have mastery points locked behind them. Even myself, maxed the last mastery just last night, because I was avoiding playing in the map. You did a great job back then, splitting the pre-events from the main meta events in Verdant Brink, Auric Basin and Tangled Depths. Slightly made Dragon Stand faster as well. The same can be done now, in a rather easy and non-gamebreaking manner: War Supplies! Split the southern and northern meta events and put them on fixed time schedule, bihourly I guess. But for the northern meta to even begin, have players donate X amount of War Supplies to a NPC, otherwise the event will not begin. At least we'll have a reason to use War Supplies this way.

The first map I got into yesterday had a handful of players trying to do the southern meta, struggling but doing ok with it, until we ran out of time in Leadfoot Village. After that everyone bailed.

I got into another map with a squad, but after about 15 minutes of doing the same stuff I'd just been doing and knowing how much more time I needed to invest to get to the Claw fight, I gave up.

I understand wanting to create something that feels like an epic incursion into enemy-controlled territory, but this goes overboard in my opinion. It's not just that it's so long, it's the unrelenting nature of the event over that amount of time...its really punishing on the eyes and hands/wrists.

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There are people taking advantage of Multi-loot. One person whom I know definitely did so. It needs sorting.

This change does nothing to sort out the problems the map has.

I've lost count how many maps / groups I've tried to join advertised on LFG - nope map full.

I've lost count on how many maps three or four of us have attempted the escort events to capture the mine and the overlook - failing during the capture phase due to the amount/toughness of the enemy.

It went from a map that you could join quite easily and on occasion one where the map was nearly done, to a map where you are only going to end up on a dead one. I've just spent 30 minutes trying to get onto an active map. No chance. So that has eaten into 30 minutes of my playtime. The maps I was on? Dead.

You need to loosen the restrictions on joining active maps.

You need to make the enemy scale proportionately to the number of players trying to do the events. They don't at the moment.

A lot of people have commented on the forums that they're only going to run through the story and that is it, they're never going to go there again.

You have taken something that was fun and basically killed it for a lot of players. Remember what this game is supposed to be.

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I agree with the above comments.Yes this is a bit easier than running around but few pointers still:

I agree it's too long, I also have experienced the same issues getting on an active map.The scaling also is a nightmare. If you are on a dead map, it feels you are forbidden to progress ANY of your achievements due to the extreme agro the mobs give.(Not only the snipers, but the broken siege the enemy uses that ignores things like walls, bedrock, even gravity)

The map is meta and META ALONE. Without Meta, there is ZERO desire to be there.That is maybe the biggest issue with the map.

I look forward to the day I am done with this map, because I have no desire to return there.

@Andy.5981 said:

You have taken something that was fun and basically killed it for a lot of players. Remember what this game is supposed to be.

This!

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Look in lfg find Fresh map w commander join that.If you want to try join something in lfg further along like 5/6 or north then be prepared to spam join map on someone hoping someone leaves.Don't try and go take mine with 5 on a dead map you just setting yourself up for disappointment.Complaining while just logging into the map expecting it to throw you into north or far along is pure luck and don't expect the game to hook you up and go oh this map has 83/84 let this guy in.Learn to use lfg. I have done this 36 times to get otter not multi-looting and about 10 I have snuck into further along maps watching lfg and getting in or spamming for 5 minutes and get in.Fresh start is best and most lucrative anyway. Now I just join that and do 1st half and leave because the gph dips big time 2nd half

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+1 from me on the "chests in one place is nice" praise. I like it!

I will, however, echo @Andy.5981 on the map scaling. While it might be excessive to allow us to solo every area capture on the south meta, it's still pretty much impossible to pull off with 3 pretty good players. I think I've capped the Mine and the Overlook with just 5 people total, but pretty much everyone was a 338 mastery and I could recognize raid rotations... so a very much above-average group. I think those events should scale down much more forgivingly than they do, and that might go a long way in making more maps feel like they're worth committing to.

I do not like the idea of splitting the metas though. I feel like it'll turn out very similarly to the Vigil Keep meta on Bjora's first half, where people really don't run it nearly as consistently as they used to, in favor of blitzing Drakkar. I just think, like many others have mentioned, that shaving down how long the combined meta takes would be enough to preserve the cumbersome military campaign feel to the whole thing, which I think is very, very fitting of the story being told.

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This is obviously the easiest change to make so they're making it first, even if it's not the most important change overall. I'd like to see scaling become a lot better for the south meta as well. I'm thinking the soldier readiness bar that Anet is so insistent on keeping actually represent the strength of the united legions NPCs to the point that when it is full and the rewards are gone, the NPCs will actually be able to push all the way to the north meta even without players helping and then leave the map stuck on north meta instead of dead at south.

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This DWC map is too long as a south to north meta. It needs to be cut up in manageable pieces where (A) player can join up without planning to do a amp wide meta for several hours. (B) Change how much mobs there are around - too many and worse it those leeching mobs where you can't cleanse, dodge or do anything but to kill those in time and with 6 doing leeching it is not possible to kill them fast enough.

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@Lamont.5973 said:

@Raizel Silverius.6430 said:@Fire Attunement.9835I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

I really doubt that is an exploit. You can not enter the map with any character if you did not have a character present at the end of the meta. And you only have 5 minutes before the primary chest disappears so you are limited in the number of extra characters you can use. That's pretty specific programing decisions there that seems intentionally designed to allow multi-looting on a limited basis. Given loading times you can maybe get 8 toons into the map if you are only doing the main chest and skipping the others. So an account like I have with 70 characters has little advantage over an account with only a half dozen or so. I was avoiding the multi-looting too, thinking it might be an exploit, until I realized the limitations they had put on it and it became obvious that it was an intentional design choice. Of course, that may change with this change since all the chests will be right together and you will not have to choose between extra otters or extra loot from the other chests. being able to multi loot 25 chests instead of 1 would be rather over the top.

Seems like a weird design choice when you could just make the amount of memories required 50 instead of 320 and not allow multi-loot.

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@Andy.5981 said:There are people taking advantage of Multi-loot. One person whom I know definitely did so. It needs sorting.

This change does nothing to sort out the problems the map has.

I've lost count how many maps / groups I've tried to join advertised on LFG - nope map full.

I've lost count on how many maps three or four of us have attempted the escort events to capture the mine and the overlook - failing during the capture phase due to the amount/toughness of the enemy.

It went from a map that you could join quite easily and on occasion one where the map was nearly done, to a map where you are only going to end up on a dead one. I've just spent 30 minutes trying to get onto an active map. No chance. So that has eaten into 30 minutes of my playtime. The maps I was on? Dead.

You need to loosen the restrictions on joining active maps.

You need to make the enemy scale proportionately to the number of players trying to do the events. They don't at the moment.

A lot of people have commented on the forums that they're only going to run through the story and that is it, they're never going to go there again.

You have taken something that was fun and basically killed it for a lot of players. Remember what this game is supposed to be.

In my opinion this is a good summary about the negative aspects and shortcomings of this map. This update alone will not solve the problems of the map. Yesterday I did this meta a third time and I was glad to log off when it was over. Rewards and loot will not solve the problem. I was only doing it again because of the mastery point for doing it 10 times but the best solution is probably to simply ignore it. Maybe I will just ignore the rest of the Icebrood Saga as well.

And the basic problem is not only this meta but the game as a whole which has lost strategy and direction. Once it was a creative and innovative game with unique selling points. Today it is a mediocre korean grinder.

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@"Acyk.9671" said:Adding an actual reward to the WvW reward track would be nice :)Add some amount of Shard of Crystallized Blood of Jormag, some Charr commendations , some ..This track can be absolutely reworked to make it actial and not for "one day".

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@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Raizel Silverius.6430 said:@Fire Attunement.9835I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

I really doubt that is an exploit. You can not enter the map with any character if you did not have a character present at the end of the meta. And you only have 5 minutes before the primary chest disappears so you are limited in the number of extra characters you can use. That's pretty specific programing decisions there that seems intentionally designed to allow multi-looting on a limited basis. Given loading times you can maybe get 8 toons into the map if you are only doing the main chest and skipping the others. So an account like I have with 70 characters has little advantage over an account with only a half dozen or so. I was avoiding the multi-looting too, thinking it might be an exploit, until I realized the limitations they had put on it and it became obvious that it was an intentional design choice. Of course, that may change with this change since all the chests will be right together and you will not have to choose between extra otters or extra loot from the other chests. being able to multi loot 25 chests instead of 1 would be rather over the top.

Seems like a weird design choice when you could just make the amount of memories required 50 instead of 320 and not allow multi-loot.I don't disagree. But my argument was not that it was a good design choice, only that it appears intentional. The parameters are so specific it almost had to be a design choice. Otherwise, why not prevent all other characters from being able to enter? Or, conversely, allow people into maps they had not participated in? Or, as with so many end chests of events, make them only able to be opened once per account per meta. That they specifically allow multiple characters in while blocking accounts that did not participate in the meta from joining seems to say they intended to allow limited multi looting. Although, frankly, I do think the better options, would have been to put an otter in each of the chests at the end so that by participating in the full loot phase you would get about as many per meta as you can currently get from multi looting.
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@Lamont.5973 said:

@Cynder.2509 said:Does that mean multiloot will get nerfed too? Good thing I got the otter infusion right in time then as long as it was still availableThat is a good question. It is pretty obvious multilooting was intentional on this map as you could only bring new characters in if one of your characters had been there at the end of the meta and the chest is only available for 5 minutes. But if ALL the lesser chests will be in the same area that does mean and significant amount of loot available beyond just the otters for each character. Maybe they could make it so that all the chest except the main one can only be opened once per meta?

Who says that's not exactly how it's going to be? The main chest still being there for 5 minutes, for multiloot purposes, but the others only able to be opened once? Personally I assume that's exactly how it's going to be. The change is only the placement of the chests in one area. The post says nothing about changing the nature of the chests (i.e. how many times you can open them) so there's no reason to believe that will change.

@Raizel Silverius.6430 said:

I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

How is it unfair if you choose to open the chest only once? You have the option to multiloot like everyone else. The fact that you choose not to is on you and has nothing to do with fairness. Also, asking for a fix suggests multiloot was not intended and is a mistake, while it is more obvious that it was very much intended to work this way.

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@TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

@Cynder.2509 said:Does that mean multiloot will get nerfed too? Good thing I got the otter infusion right in time then as long as it was still availableThat is a good question. It is pretty obvious multilooting was intentional on this map as you could only bring new characters in if one of your characters had been there at the end of the meta and the chest is only available for 5 minutes. But if ALL the lesser chests will be in the same area that does mean and significant amount of loot available beyond just the otters for each character. Maybe they could make it so that all the chest except the main one can only be opened once per meta?

Who says that's not exactly how it's going to be? The main chest still being there for 5 minutes, for multiloot purposes, but the others only able to be opened once? Personally I assume that's exactly how it's going to be. The change is only the placement of the chests in one area. The post says nothing about changing the nature of the chests (i.e. how many times you can open them) so there's no reason to believe that will change.

I'm ok with any of the changes but please FIX THE MULTI LOOT that A LOT of people are exploiting the hell out of for Otter Blessings as well as the Gifts. I was really disappointed when people told me you can actually multi loot the giant chest after defeating the Claw of Jormag in Drizzlewood Coast North Meta.

Totally unfair for some of us who only loot said chest ONCE every meta. Basically by-passing the necessary amount of times you need to complete the meta to finish the Otter Achievement.

How is it unfair if
you choose
to open the chest only once? You have the option to multiloot like everyone else. The fact that
you choose not to
is on you and has nothing to do with fairness. Also, asking for a fix suggests multiloot was not intended and is a mistake, while it is more obvious that it was very much intended to work this way.

No, I will go with none of these chest will be multi-lootable. It's not the first time they made this possible but with the gift of otter adding to the progression of repeatable traks for clovers I think they close this one. And going hey you could have multi-looted this too so that's your fault not the multi-looters is just a poor defense to any one who didn't abuse/know or even think about it. But if you have an issue with it just be the commander and after killing Jormag kick anyone who goes offline swapping characters so they can't get back to that map otherwise nothing else you can do.

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Please make the mobs despawn after each objective is completed (take down portals, destroy the heavy armoured turrets) etc. Part of the slowdown in the maps is trying to get out of combat. You have about 2/3 of players who manage it and another 1/3 who are stuck with the remaining mobs, and who are now running on foot.

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