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[Spoiler] Is (S)he truly a bad guy?


Cronospere.8143

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I feel like they might be setting up that Jormag still isn't a villain, but I can't stand the villain that is revealed in a twist to have "actually" have been a hero all along, even though the only reason why we thought they were a villain to begin with was because they were actually doing horrible things and refused every opportunity to explain themselves until the big reveal.

The problem with that cliche is that we aren't jumping to conclusions about these characters and misunderstanding them. They are actively causing destruction and never once even attempting to give meaningful context to it. We are given only one conclusion to reasonably come to. Retroactively trying to make us feel guilty about it will always ring false when such a character never tried explaining themselves to the heroic main cast who are usually defined by being understanding. "I swear I have a plan" doesn't mean anything when we've only been reacting in self defense to begin with.

We were content to leave Jormag alone after the whole Taimi's Machine thing. We've been going after Jormag right now because of the trouble Bangar caused, that Jormag bailed Bangar out of, and because of all the dead people in Jora's Keep. Jormag didn't have to let that happen. While we're following in the wake of this destruction, Jormag could have ordered their troops to lay down their weapons. Bangar is the sort of person who would keep slaughtering his way through unarmed Dragon followers, not us. Rytlock would immediately question what's going on instead of murdering defenseless pacifists. If Jormag doesn't have such control over all their followers, and considers some to just be crazy cultists that give them a bad name, then tell us that.

The only time I've ever been able to forgive such a plot was in a setting mired in conspiracies, so the "villain" had an excuse not to trust anyone, but that isn't the case here. Not only is the Commander and our friends world-renowned heroes at this point, but through Aurene we've shown that we can also befriend a dragon. This is not obscure information. Jormag would know this. If Jormag actually had altruistic motives, they have absolutely no excuse to not just tell us what they are, especially when we're shown on multiple occasions that they can literally just whisper to us whatever they want. When all of those whispers are wasted on baseless claims or vague riddles, the onus is not on us to clear things up.

In another words, by this point, Jormag would be, at best, a villain who is retconned into being a hero in order to make you feel guilty, not a hero all along that we misunderstood. That's already not something positive to associate with either way.

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Na don't care. The dragon is the reason Almora is dead so Jormag is getting suplexed through as many tables as it takes. Even if they are a "good guy". Mostly cause anet seems to kill every character I care about... Except traherne, ooh boy did that feel good.

Also Jormag is not a she or a he. Anet changed them to be non binary and whomever is speaking to it perceives it as what ever they want it to be.

Still no excuse, dragon gotta die.

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Something important has occurred to me...

Jormag is a sincerity power fantasy.

How would you go about creating a compelling sincerity power fantasy? Well, in part it would be about having the power to compel people to listen. Not to make them obey, that isn't what it's about, but to quite literally force them to listen to reason instead of acting like destructive, immature children. The other aspect of a sincerity power fantasy lies with the one doing the convincing, they must be inherently sincere themself.

I've heard it said that neurotypicals—notably extraverts—say whatever comes to mind; But they don't, not at all. In fact, they have a filter that stops them from sharing, especially from oversharing. Yes, they speak a lot but it's to keep the conversation going since that's what fuels them. It's not saying whatever comes into their mind, it's more like a human parsable lorem ipsum generator.

Autistic people however do say what comes to mind because we have no filter. In this way we're sincere because you'll always know what we're thinking. That's how it is for us. You're absolutely sharing a space with our inner mind because there isn't much between that and what we say. A lot of autistic people are forced to be sincere because that's how their mind works.

So a sincerity power fantasy would be about understanding that. It would be about overcoming how sincerity itself is so often demonised and misunderstood by those who wouldn't listen, since as I said that's something that many don't want to do—listen. The majority of neurotypicals, extraverts especially, would prefer to hear what's convenient as opposed to what another is actually saying. This is where the concept of the straw-man argument comes from, it's inherently something about the way neurotypical minds work. Neurotypical minds don't listen good.

I've had bad experiences trying to talk with neurotypicals where they just haven't listened and it's cost lives. I'm very traumatised by these experiences, it's messed me up. I don't know whehter it's egotism, arrogance, or just overly emotional obstinance in feeling that they always want to be dominant, always in control of everything but... It's a truth that neurotypicals don't listen good. It's often like talking to a brick wall. For the most part, I've given up on bothering to communicate with them as it never happens.

You say something and they'll hear something else. They don't listen.

It's the most frustrating experience to have because they can be so stubborn. It can lead to them doing foolish things that harm themselves or others. They don't seem to understand that someone can understand something that they don't. This is why you often have neurotypicals arguing with medical professionals or buying into conspiracy theories. You can beg them to listen, you can plead with them, and they just... They don't listen. I can definitely understand why having a power fantasy where one could grab their mind and force them to would be so thoroughly cathartic.

It wouldn't be evil or unethical because you're not forcing them to agree, all you're doing is ensuring that they can actually hear and parse what you're really saying.

It's a frustration a lot of autistic people I've spoken with tend to have. I'd like to have Jormag's power.

I think where this all stems from is that... On some level, neurotypicals appear to distrust and dislike real sincerity. It's too raw, too honest, it doesn't make them feel important and relevant. Now, if you were to butter them up, praise them, and preen them then it becomes easy to manipulate them and have them agree to or with things.

This is a manipulation. It might feel like the person who's doing this is being supportive but it really isn't. To really be supportive you have to be honest and to do what's in another person's best interests even if it costs you. It isn't about what you can get from them just for being "nice" and "friendly." There's telling them what they need to hear, and then there's telling them what they want to hear.

It feels that neurotypicals need to feel empowered with faux agency. You can say one thing and they'll hear another, sadly what they hear instead is often designed to boost their ego regardless of whether what you're saying is more important. Thus the trick to manipulating is synchronising with what neurotypicals want to hear. If you can do that, then they're easy to control.

This is simple to understand on a basic level—I mean, the mechanics of it are painfully visible—but autistic people tend to lack that capacity for social manipulation. It's difficult to get all of the details right, to know what they want to hear or how to synchronise with them. How manipulators will even synchronise with a victim's body language in order to manipulate is just baffling...

How they do that? Seriously.

This is why neurotypicals would rather listen to a sociopath or a charismatic tyrant—like Bangar—rather than someone who's really, genuinely trying to help them.

Therefore, to make a sincerity power fantasy truly cathartic it would involve muting the charismatic sociopath so that they cannot use their talent. It would be about understanding that a voice can be used in a multitude of ways, even as a weapon. It's understanding that words can kill.

This is exactly what Jormag did.

I mean... Wouldn't it be nice if you could just have the stroppy, obstinate people who need to be buttered up could instead listen without needing to tell them what they want to hear? Wouldn't it be nice as well if you could deal with those who can use their voice as a weapon to do others so much harm? Indeed, how much harm in the world is founded in how people believe monsters are being honest with them?

You could have them hear your begging and realise your sincerity, and consider your words on their own merit without needing this social dance. You could compel their minds to do that. You could make it clear how much they're being used, manipulated, and forced to suffer.

You could have them understand what sincerity really is and the value of it. That's what Jormag's power is.

Jormag is a sincerity power fantasy.

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It might be a case that Jormag isn't a "good guy" but also doesn't want Tyria to end. There's a very real problem with magic destabilizing and destroying the planet. It's Jormag's home and they probably do want to preserve it- just for selfish reasons. Really the only dragon we've seen try to actively destabilize things is Kralkatorric who was driven to madness. Jormag seems more calculating and might be trying to turn this into more of an enemy mine situation or leveraging the fact that we can't kill them without making things worse.

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@"Hypnowulf.7403" said:Either ArenaNet is going to give me us a kind yet misunderstood therapy dragon that's autistic as heck, or they're going to just be another autistic villain trope. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of that trope. I'm also tired of the hurr hurr smash thing stories that Guild Wars 2 has told prior. I don't know that the community has enough toxic masculinity for that to be a good sell.

What if the story was actually about confronting the abstract concept of suffering in Tyria (the torment) though? That'd be different. A cancerous force that's causing cycles of pain and death. That would be a compelling story to me.

(It's only fair that I admit my own biases as well. I have a vested interest in therapy and hypnotherapy, and I have a deep love for dragons. So seeing an autistic dragon who's interested in easing pain and suffering... That would be a very cathartic, meaningful experience for me. It's just as easy that Jormag could be an evil autist trope though who's just going to die at the end and I'll end up very depressed.)

Thank you for your answer, I like what you said in your post. One question: Why do you refer to Jormag as "They"?

I liked to be surprised. A straight forward vilain story isn't what I like to see. Just like you said. I'm convinced ANet will give a good twist or surprise to the story.For some reason I can't shake the feeling Jormag is a good one. And honestly it scares me. Because what if (s)he is an hardcore bad one? What does it say about me?

@"Khandarus.2738" said:Na don't care. The dragon is the reason Almora is dead so Jormag is getting suplexed through as many tables as it takes. Even if they are a "good guy". Mostly cause anet seems to kill every character I care about... Except traherne, ooh boy did that feel good.

Did Jormag kill her? No Bangar killed her.. > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

It might be a case that Jormag isn't a "good guy" but also doesn't want Tyria to end. There's a very real problem with magic destabilizing and destroying the planet. It's Jormag's home and they probably do want to preserve it- just for selfish reasons. Really the only dragon we've seen try to actively destabilize things is Kralkatorric who was driven to madness. Jormag seems more calculating and might be trying to turn this into more of an enemy mine situation or leveraging the fact that we can't kill them without making things worse.

Mordremoth did the same. He Destabilized the entire maguuma forest.

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@Cronospere.8143 said:

@"Khandarus.2738" said:Na don't care. The dragon is the reason Almora is dead so Jormag is getting suplexed through as many tables as it takes. Even if they are a "good guy". Mostly cause anet seems to kill every character I care about... Except traherne, ooh boy did that feel good.

Did Jormag kill her? No Bangar killed her.. >

Jormag was manipulating Bangar.It boils down to, do you blame the sword or the person wielding it. Without Jormag influence Bangar wouldn't of killed her.

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I don't think Jormag will be a "good guy" but it's entirely possible that they are worried about some other threat and are hoping to utilize us to their advantage against. Here's hoping for the deput of Bubbles.

But I also personally wouldn't trust the voice that psycologically manipulates everyone around us.

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@"Ototo.3214" said:I don't think Jormag will be a "good guy" but it's entirely possible that they are worried about some other threat and are hoping to utilize us to their advantage against. Here's hoping for the deput of Bubbles.If Jormag wants us to utilize us to their advantage against something else, I suspect it would be Primordus, given that they are each other's weaknesses, and, given all the blood around Drizzlewood, Jormag doesn't seem to have done too well in the last fight.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Ototo.3214" said:I don't think Jormag will be a "good guy" but it's entirely possible that they are worried about some other threat and are hoping to utilize us to their advantage against. Here's hoping for the deput of Bubbles.If Jormag wants us to utilize us to their advantage against something else, I suspect it would be Primordus, given that they are each other's weaknesses, and, given all the blood around Drizzlewood, Jormag doesn't seem to have done too well in the last fight.

Yeah but we know we're ending up in Cantha somehow and that doesn't seem like a Primordus tie in, to me at least.

Also, that one section of the Icebrood Saga trailer with the sinking ship feels...very out of place for both Jormag and Primordus.

I personally thinking they're saving Primordus for last and it'll be more Asura focusedI've been wrong before though so who knows

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@"Ototo.3214" said:Yeah but we know we're ending up in Cantha somehow and that doesn't seem like a Primordus tie in, to me at least.

Also, that one section of the Icebrood Saga trailer with the sinking ship feels...very out of place for both Jormag and Primordus.

I personally thinking they're saving Primordus for last and it'll be more Asura focusedI've been wrong before though so who knowsWe are going to Cantha... in the next expansion. IBS is, as far as we know, staying in Tyria. IBS really doesn't need to do anything to bring up Cantha, and the Canthan problem could just start out of nowhere. I mean, look at IBS itself. What in LWS4 propped up Jormag as the next big bad? Nothing, we just got a prologue episode "Bound by Blood" and that is what started the Jormag plot. Anet could also make a smaller prologue episode for the Canthan expansion, have them open up the Dominion of Winds for the Tengu celebrating the defeat of the 4th dragon, and then have that set up the return to Cantha.

We know IBS has like 4 more episodes left, and that they are likely split maps like Bjora/Drizzlewood are, which means two more maps in total, one of which is almost certainly the Jormag fight map ala Dragon's Stand/Dragonfall. So like, I don't see the next map being water/Bubbles/Cantha based when we still have to deal with Ryland and the Spirits of the Wild stuff.

I do agree that the Primordus story will be tied to Asura stuff, but I think that will happen after the Cantha expansion, which will likely focus on the tyrannical Canthan Empire/Ministry of Purity, and the Canthan LW season/saga, which will be the Bubbles plot.

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@Cronospere.8143 said:

@"Hypnowulf.7403" said:Either ArenaNet is going to give me us a kind yet misunderstood therapy dragon that's autistic as heck, or they're going to just be another autistic villain trope. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of that trope. I'm also tired of the hurr hurr smash thing stories that Guild Wars 2 has told prior. I don't know that the community has enough toxic masculinity for that to be a good sell.

What if the story was actually about confronting the abstract concept of suffering in Tyria (the torment) though? That'd be different. A cancerous force that's causing cycles of pain and death.
That
would be a compelling story to me.

(It's only fair that I admit my own biases as well. I have a vested interest in therapy and hypnotherapy, and I have a deep love for dragons. So seeing an autistic dragon who's interested in easing pain and suffering... That would be a very cathartic, meaningful experience for me. It's just as easy that Jormag could be an evil autist trope though who's just going to die at the end and I'll end up very depressed.)

Thank you for your answer, I like what you said in your post. One question: Why do you refer to Jormag as "They"?

I liked to be surprised. A straight forward vilain story isn't what I like to see. Just like you said. I'm convinced ANet will give a good twist or surprise to the story.For some reason I can't shake the feeling Jormag is a good one. And honestly it scares me. Because what if (s)he is an hardcore bad one? What does it say about me?

@"Khandarus.2738" said:Na don't care. The dragon is the reason Almora is dead so Jormag is getting suplexed through as many tables as it takes. Even if they are a "good guy". Mostly cause anet seems to kill every character I care about... Except traherne, ooh boy did that feel good.

Did Jormag kill her? No Bangar killed her.. > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

It might be a case that Jormag isn't a "good guy" but also doesn't want Tyria to end. There's a very real problem with magic destabilizing and destroying the planet. It's Jormag's home and they probably do want to preserve it- just for selfish reasons. Really the only dragon we've seen try to actively destabilize things is Kralkatorric who was driven to madness. Jormag seems more calculating and might be trying to turn this into more of an enemy mine situation or leveraging the fact that we can't kill them without making things worse.

Mordremoth did the same. He Destabilized the entire maguuma forest.

Not quite what I meant, mordremoth didn't contribute more to the destabilizing of the all/magic on Tyria, their death did but Kralk was actively speeding it up by eating the mists. Jormag seems to be more cautious and probably aware of the whole situation with us being unable to kill dragons without a replacement.

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@Khandarus.2738 said:

@Khandarus.2738 said:Na don't care. The dragon is the reason Almora is dead so Jormag is getting suplexed through as many tables as it takes. Even if they are a "good guy". Mostly cause anet seems to kill every character I care about... Except traherne, ooh boy did that feel good.

Did Jormag kill her? No Bangar killed her.. >

Jormag was manipulating Bangar.It boils down to, do you blame the sword or the person wielding it. Without Jormag influence Bangar wouldn't of killed her.

Jormag may of been manipulating Bangar to do other things, but Almorra's death is squarely on his shoulders. There are no voices or atmospheric effects to indicate he was being influenced, nor did Ryland seem to be hindered by the voices despite being Ruinbringers opponent in that moment. Ruinbringers reasons for killing Almorra were deeply personal, and he shows little regret for her execution.

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It is interesting that a lot of the bad stuff in this season has been Bangar's fault (even the Frost Legion are created by machines powered by Jormag's blood, not Jormag, as far as I can tell from the meta), and there's a consequence for that, but I never doubted that we might get a reveal that Jormag isn't the real bad guy. My problem is that this totally doesn't absolve Jormag.

It's tragic that a reputation may have built up around Jormag that is untrue, but it did not get built up arbitrarily. This isn't just humanoids jumping to conclusions either. The Spirits of the Wild made a sacrifice to protect the Norn. If you already have a bad reputation, and then a cult forms that starts killing people in your name, and you say nothing about it, you can't blame everyone else for severely distrusting you (and unless that was one monumental coincidence, Jormag bailed out Bangar with a blizzard, otherwise Bangar's treachery would have been dealt with right away).

The problem isn't that many of Jormag's whispers haven't been positive. A lot of them are. The problem is that, of course we're not going to trust these whispers that tell us they're totally going to help us and save us, when everyone who claims they're working for them is a murdering jerk. Of course we're going to assume that the people killing in their name are doing so with their blessing if they never deny it when they have every opportunity and every reason to want to do so.

I guess I also want to clarify that the reason this bothers me is because it would be a writing problem, not a character thing (I don't blame Jormag as a character). If this happens, the way I see it is that Jormag is failing to clear up the misconception so that it's a twist when it's revealed that they're actually good, not because it actually makes sense for a good person to let a blatant misconception fester. Otherwise this whole season could have just started with a whisper from Jormag that they need to meet us. We'd be suspicious, but we'd have had no reason to fight our way there. Bangar would be the wrench in the works instead of the apparent representative.

Edit:

@"Hypnowulf.7403" said:You say something and they'll hear something else. They don't listen.I know all too well what you mean, though I can't narrow down where it's coming from. It's not the best thread to elaborate so I'll try to make this quick, but it's something that has been getting to me somewhat existentially in the last few years. It's bad enough when you say something that just gets skipped over, or misunderstood, but I started noticing too many direct responses that... weren't direct responses at all. Like, someone would quote me on a website, say "I disagree" and proceed to say exactly what I said, or they'd quote me and just say something so completely unrelated that it made me wonder what they thought I said.

I definitely don't have the knowledge of specifics or words to really articulate this, just my experiences. Even within family I have people that I can more or less discuss things with, and people who, just, no matter what I say, their responses or reactions prove that they did not actually hear anything I said. It's really scary once you start realizing it.

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@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Ototo.3214" said:Yeah but we know we're ending up in Cantha somehow and that doesn't seem like a Primordus tie in, to me at least.

Also, that one section of the Icebrood Saga trailer with the sinking ship feels...very out of place for both Jormag and Primordus.

I personally thinking they're saving Primordus for last and it'll be more Asura focusedI've been wrong before though so who knowsWe are going to Cantha... in the next expansion. IBS is, as far as we know, staying in Tyria. IBS really doesn't need to do anything to bring up Cantha, and the Canthan problem could just start out of nowhere. I mean, look at IBS itself. What in LWS4 propped up Jormag as the next big bad? Nothing, we just got a prologue episode "Bound by Blood" and that is what started the Jormag plot. Anet could also make a smaller prologue episode for the Canthan expansion, have them open up the Dominion of Winds for the Tengu celebrating the defeat of the 4th dragon, and then have that set up the return to Cantha.

We know IBS has like 4 more episodes left, and that they are likely split maps like Bjora/Drizzlewood are, which means two more maps in total, one of which is almost certainly the Jormag fight map ala Dragon's Stand/Dragonfall. So like, I don't see the next map being water/Bubbles/Cantha based when we still have to deal with Ryland and the Spirits of the Wild stuff.

I do agree that the Primordus story will be tied to Asura stuff, but I think that will happen after the Cantha expansion, which will likely focus on the tyrannical Canthan Empire/Ministry of Purity, and the Canthan LW season/saga, which will be the Bubbles plot.

That is true, but I will say that we got LWS2 bringing up Mordy to lead into HoT, Balzathar introduced at the end of LWS3 which led into PoF, then the end of PoF bringing up Kralk as an issue to lead into LWS4. Yes, it's not always done like that, LWS4 just ended with the finale of Kralk falling and wishing he had Life Alert, so IBS kinda had to introduce something new. Also want to clarify, I don't actually think we're like...physically going to Cantha until the expansion, I agree that IBS will more than likely all be within Tyria.

But there are just...idk, a few weird things that stick out to make me think Bubbles. I don't trust Jormag, but the trailer for IBS has Jormag talking like there's some threat that needs to be rallied against and Jormag is offering aid "in the trials to come." Who the heck knows what that means, but the part I mentioned earlier with the ship in that trailer just seems...out of place. That on top of the fact that if we're to go to Cantha, that's way south on the map, with a huge ocean between where we can go currently and it. Will that just be empty space or is it going to be used for...something? Potentially related to an unnamed water dragon? Who knows.

But that's just me and my tin foil hat. The ship thing, as well as the random centaur slavers bit in the trailer, could just be throwaway things for Jormag to try and make a point. I think part of why I'm suspecting at least something to come up besides Jormag is because of the datamined text for the Confer with Bangar achievement. I suspect, since we can't currently progress that chieve, that they're going to occasionally just throw out there the ability to progress on it, kinda like the current events they've occasionally done. And the very last thing we get off of that chieve will be something to do with "Jormag's Enemy." So I don't necessarily think Jormag will just be gone and dead by the end of IBS unless we kill em then find out there's some other thing Jormag was worried about but still. Doesn't mean it's Bubbles, but between that and the ocean separating us for Cantha I somewhat suspect Bubbles.

Though, like I said, I've been wrong before. The end of season 3 threw me for a loop and they could do it again here XD(but if we get a ton of underwater crap, Anet, you better revamp underwater combat, I swear)

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@Ototo.3214 said:But that's just me and my tin foil hat. The ship thing, as well as the random centaur slavers bit in the trailer, could just be throwaway things for Jormag to try and make a point.I think that's taking the trailer too literally.

Like, the first image we see is part of the Charr homelands on fire, with a burnt charr holding its burnt child, yet that never happened in bound By Blood. Likewise, we see the Kodan doing a funeral on the water, but that never happened with the Kodan in episode 2.

The thing with the Centaur's may imply centaur involvement, which makes sense. the Woodland Cascades are Centaur lands. but the ship sinking thing is probably a reference to the Drizzlewood battle, which involved several sunk submarines and stuff.

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According to the studio, Jormag is beyond physical gender. Which is fitting for an Elder Dragon and cosmic scaled being.

The only evidence being offered to support Jormag being good can be paraphrased as 'let go and let me' or 'only I can save you'. That is the logic offered by every genuine or would be tyrant. There is no compelling evidence that they are good. Jormag may truly love Tyria but everything they have done and said shows that they express love using ice and manipulation. Joramg's logic sounds like descriptions of freezing to death, where victims struggle until a deep sense of calm and acceptance overwhelms them.

The studio is likely trying to give Jormag similar dimensions the MCU gave Thanos. They love something and believe they are doing the right thing even though their logic is deeply flawed. We will try to convince Jormag to give up their plan, maybe even offer a better plan but Jormag will refuse to cooperate because it isn't their plan. Hopefully, the studio confronts the fact that Jormag is a vessel for magic spheres and may not be able to think in ways that don't rely on ice and and manipulation. Jormag isn't good, but they may be tragic.

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I think she's a villain...who's honestly wanting to work with the Commander. She knows we've already taken down a couple of dragons, and she also knows that if we take her down, the world ends. She's probably aware that we know that too.So, how does a bad guy operate? Trickery, manipulation, and outright violence. She's an elemental force; I don't think she can operate in any other way. This is what she knows, what she's good at, and so those are the tools that she's using. It wouldn't surprise me if she outright never considered a straightforward approach, and even if she did, she'd be unlikely to assume we'd even listen. Heck, I wouldn't assume we'd hear her out.

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@Felipe.1807 said:

@"Spanex.1950" said:What would Jormag be needing that army for, then?

Here is what I expect to see happen, and I'll put it in spoiler tags just in case.

! Jormag wants to get rid of Primordus and is going to use their new army to do so. Why? Not sure yet, but a possible motivation could be because they are each others' weakness as we discovered in season 3. We all know if one more dragon bites the dust, the world ends, so that isn't an option for
us
to take. But perhaps Jormag seeks to take their rival's magic for themselves. Is there a risk that the excess magic will drive them to madness like it did with Kralkatorrik? So many questions... Whichever happens will surely spell doom for us.

I'd like to believe that Jormag isn't the villain this time, and they really do want to help us. It would be a cool twist, but they've tricked before. Surely they will trick again.

As someone who plays mainly Norns, this would be the stupid twist that I ever seen...and I wouldnt even be surprised if Anet pulled this one...like they did with Koda, were countless of Kodan tells you about how Dragons are agents of corruption and destruction, and is their duty to fight them to keep the balance in the world...and years later is revealed that Dragons actually keep the balance in the world, AKA, Kodan and the teachings of Koda are full of kitten lol

Kodan are full of kitten no matter what. They believe themselves to be above all the other species as "the chosen specie".

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@galen ubal.2807 said:I think she's a villain...who's honestly wanting to work with the Commander. She knows we've already taken down a couple of dragons, and she also knows that if we take her down, the world ends. She's probably aware that we know that too.So, how does a bad guy operate? Trickery, manipulation, and outright violence. She's an elemental force; I don't think she can operate in any other way. This is what she knows, what she's good at, and so those are the tools that she's using. It wouldn't surprise me if she outright never considered a straightforward approach, and even if she did, she'd be unlikely to assume we'd even listen. Heck, I wouldn't assume we'd hear her out.

The All balance and Elder dragon balance may be less of a problem. Aurene's nature may allow us to move that consideration to the back burner, at least temporarily. We do need to hear the Commandeer and other NPCs talk about it about it though. Rational people can't talk about Braham's destiny to kill Jormag without talking about the Elder dragon balance. The studio can no longer ignore the issue without making the Commander and every other NPC look like idiots.

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Not sure yet jormag see. Aurene could absorb the essences of other dragons due to it was part of he growth, kralk was driven insane by the torment the magic from mordrrmoth, and zhaitan and balth, jormag is sane it can be jormag is not the real antagonist and its ryland as jormag is known to fufill wishes but in a twisted way even if its not benifiting as notice we constantly gotten diffrent info like sons didnt want almorra and jhavi to call us but jormag did. Also jormags corruption is mostly like aurenes crystal blooms. You dont get corrupted directly by jormag, the sons uses magic and artifacts to force it on some but cases its more of a choice this is how i see it anet might want to keep it open. For killing jormag would honestly feel like we are only killing dragons or other powerfull magical beings

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  • 2 months later...

Okay, So new trailer just went out..

@Cronospere.8143 said:Now with all this information, it feels to me that Jormag is preparing for something far worse than him and us.There seems to be not a single moment in the season of which he truly speaks evil. It's always about trying to help and trying to convince us he isn't the bad guy.We as a main character presume the worst thinking he is trying to convert us. But what if he is speaking the truth?

Soo it looks to me that we indeed are going to fight something worse, together..

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For now.

Jormag's past behaviour will always show it's true nature.It's threatened.. that's why it wants our help, but it is no friend.Once Primordus is out of the picture Jormag will go back to it's old ways, that's why we'll probably end up trying to find away to kill and replace them both.

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@aspirine.6852 said:Killing our friends and making icebrood doesnt sound friendly to me.

Killing 3 of the 6 elder dragons also doesnt sound too friendly to me either.

The dragons do what they have done for thousands of years, they continue the cycle, when the magic is out of balance they rise, consume and release the magic back into the world. If they did not do this the world would end. So I wouldnt say they are evil, but just going about their nature.You could go as far to say that they are an endangered species.

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