Instant revive skills still not addressed. Herald not addressed.

[Ovark.2514]

@Avatar.3568 said:And do not forgett, revive skills take an utility slot, that could be an stunbreak or condi cleanse or something else

That makes sense until you imagine the incredibly likely and common scenario in which BOTH players on the same team have an instant revive skill. Suddenly the value of such a skills skyrockets. It now no longer matters who is targeted first since both have a get-out-of-jail-free-card for the cheap cost of 1 utility slot. 1 Utility slot might seem expensive until you remember that having 2 defensive utilities is always enough, so you only need to sacrifice your offensive utility. This is not a big deal since this game is designed so that even auto-attacking can't be endured for more than a second or 2 before you are losing the battle of attrition. The most prominent example of this being the case is Warrior. The meta for Warrior has been shield off-hand since time immemorial, but why? What if you wanna do some more damage and take Axe off-hand or something? Because diminishing returns. The damage increase from Axe Off-hand is negligible next to the benefit from blocking ALL attacks for 3 seconds and being able to stun a foe. To relate this to the current conversation: The benefit from gaining a bit more offense or a bit more defense is INSIGNIFICANT next to the ability to have an entire other character worth of support and/or damage controlled by another player fighting by your side. It's not as noticeable in 5v5 because people are spread out to cap points, but 2v2 maps are very small and so you are almost always in range of a revive not to mention having less enemies to focus on. The main other reason these skills don't have a place in the game is that it feels incredibly unrewarding when you take 5-10min to outplay and down a guy just to see him pop back up (and probably then kill you as icing on the cake).

[Shiyo.3578]

Whoever wanted revive skills back in the game is wrong. They do not belong in PvP.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:Safe stomps are equally as

unfun

as fast revives (whether it's skills, traits or just rubbing the dirt).Remove Safe-stomping first, then we can think of nerfing revives.

I personally thought both fast revives and safe stomping was fun.

Back in the day, the two lived in consort. The game had more meaning back then...even if there was more damage.

tbh i can see both sides of this mainly because i play a profession most of the time that has no safe stomp or elite execute

I think if utility or elite revives were removed from the game anet would equally need to undo every viable way to currently safe stomp so you are literally forced to stand there knowing you wont be able to get the channeled stomp the first time without something like stealth.

Both sides are frustrating depending on what you play.

I would vote for more elite instant execute options before nerfing safestomps or revives. Thats more creativity and way for them to add buffs to few elite skills that are not just "omgea damage" or "omega suppression"

I would like to use chill to the bone on a down body and promptly and thematically send someone to an icey grave lol

I'm fine with this. I'm against downstate being removed entirely, but I'm definitely up for skills that immediately finish/ the reduction of cds on skills that immediately finish.If the skill has significant windup and otherwise does little damage (like executioner's scythe). I think making these skills finish one downed enemy on hit could also be worth a look.

That would be so cool for reaper 5 if they dont want to give the damage back tbh... stun option or instant execute option i like the way you think

[ollbirtan.2915]

@Shiyo.3578 said:Whoever wanted revive skills back in the game is wrong. They do not belong in PvP.

And why is that? They have been part of game mechanics since launch and have already received huge nerfs in competitive mods. Remember when MI used to revive for 25%? When Signet of Mercy was actually useful and picked by FBs? Or Geyser? Or the deleted herald res skill? The list goes on.

[White Kitsunee.4620]

@"Fueki.4753" said:If they nerf Revive skills that already waste one of your three utility slots, safe stomps are going to outperform revives.Thus, safe stomps need to be brought "down in line" afterwards.

2 things about this:

1. I'd agree it was a 'wasted' slot if it the effect wasen't so absurdly powerful and also give you benefits alongside it, signet of undeath specifically. The only time taking a revive skill is a 'wasted' utility is when you've won without either of your teammates being downed.
2. With the nerfs I proposed revive skills still beat stomp. Revive skills channel faster then stomp does and warriors you can even pre-cast. So I don't really know what you're talking about here. (Neither do I think revives need to be the same power level with stomps but w/e, lets not get into that.)

Stomping was already heavily nerfed in the gigapatch making it harder to take stomping skills like elixer s because you need to actually be able down people before stomping them.Because fighting 8 seconds instead of the 6 before is such a hard nerf. /sIn my experience, yea. I've played the first 2v2 and 3v3 season heavily on holosmith and scrapper. And In my experience yea, the nerfs made a difference. I have to use everything I have to get someone downed. All my CC and all my movement a lot of the time. Meaning I have less if not no answers to a revive skill. It's really frustrating when I work hard to get a down on someone only for the my stomp attempt to be sniped by a revive, and now the person that got revived he is on better footing then me since he got his resources and CDs back.

And yea this is a personal experience I have had on a specific class. And while yea I'm not top player, I have my 2v2 Elite title for a reason.

In addition to 3 out of 5 game format making stomping more important, stomping is harder to do then in any other gametype.Popping the shrink elixir, stealthing and even teleporting back and forth

while channeling the stomp

are not even close to be considerable as something hard.

The more important stomp is the more counters players will take to it. That is what I'm referring to here. Because stomping is a more important mechanic in 2v2 death-match, the enemy team will be playing around it more compared to other game modes.

[Shiyo.3578]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Whoever wanted revive skills back in the game is wrong. They do not belong in PvP.

And why is that? They have been part of game mechanics since launch and have already received huge nerfs in competitive mods. Remember when MI used to revive for 25%? When Signet of Mercy was actually useful and picked by FBs? Or Geyser? Or the deleted herald res skill? The list goes on.

They are too powerful and downright unfun. Downed state is already powerful enough, there's no reason for revive traits and utilities to exist on top of it. The only class that can interact with res utilities reliably is x/p thief. Them existing screams "esports moments" and not "fun gameplay" to me.

[ollbirtan.2915]

How is something like a whopping 3% revive on Protective Reviver (24-20sec cooldown) or 1% per pulse - max 5% on Arcane Resurrection (~20 sec cooldown) overpowered? No one even takes these traits any more because they have been degraded to the level of the "300 sec cooldown" "placeholders".
For active skills like sigils / glyphs - guardian doesn't use it anymore, necro loses half HP just by starting the cast, and ele (the only semi viable) has a hard time casting it amidst kitten CCs flying around?

[Shiyo.3578]

You can already res faster than a stomp doing them both at the same time with only 1 resser. You can BAELY outdps 1 person ressing in 2v2 with 2 people sometimes. Ressing is already strong in small fights, with those traits you can outres people cleaving easily very often. Those traits and utils are obscenely broken.

[ollbirtan.2915]

It's clearly pointless to continue this discussion. Agree to disagree.

[lovemghool.7613]

we should ask Arenanet to bring the no downstate event to pvp with their special event for wvw.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

It's not so much instant revive as it is downstate itself has not been updated to reflect the "damage calculation overhaul" megapatch. This means downstate is significantly harder to outcleave, and still receives the same healing that it did before the overhaul. Any build that is even slightly tanky can very easily press F to insta-rez. Any build that is both tanky and has rez traits to boot can exploit this oversight to the Oort cloud and back.

Anet really should have nerfed downstate HP and incoming healing by at least 25% on the day of the overhaul patch, but alas they didn't and still have not addressed this issue. And as more and more people realize how exploitable it is we inch closer to full bunker meta with each passing week.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Kuma.1503 said:Idk when Anet will deal with Herald. It would be nice if Anet had reduced Crev's sustain, damage reduction, torment application, resistance uptime, and energy pool, but alas.

They’ve literally done all of those things over the past 3 balance updates for Rev

[Kuma.1503]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Idk when Anet will deal with Herald. It would be nice if Anet had reduced Crev's sustain, damage reduction, torment application, resistance uptime, and energy pool, but alas.

They’ve literally done all of those things over the past 3 balance updates for Rev

(That's the joke)