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Make A Raid Matchmaking System For Solo Players


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After reading this thread again, it seems that the OP just created a fictitious issue in order to justify their own suggestion. It also seems fairly obvious that they have zero raiding experience nor have tried to gain any through the suggestions that have been given in this thread and the plethora of others like it. They're just falling the same rhetoric that all of the anti-raiders give when they want dumbed down raids or go on a "toxic raiders" rant. What exactly is the difference between having a LFG that lists the roles needed, including that all skill levels are welcome, versus the OP's matchmaking thing? If players are not lining up in droves for the LFG version, why would they for the OP's?

My opinion is that this isn't an issue with forming groups at all but instead a lack of having a large pool of players that want to do challenging content and willing to adapt to said content. Strikes have been stated to be the new stepping stone to raids. How many players even try to perform their roles well? How many actually try to do the mechanics? I see DPS players that get out-DPS'd by support players. I also see players that just stand there on the boss and face tank damage; they don't even try to avoid it. The OP's suggestions won't resolve this and any groups created using this matchmaking system will quickly run into this and fall apart. This is one of the primary reasons that you see many LFG with requirements.

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@"Ayrilana.1396" said:After reading this thread again, it seems that the OP just created a fictitious issue in order to justify their own suggestion. It also seems fairly obvious that they have zero raiding experience nor have tried to gain any through the suggestions that have been given in this thread and the plethora of others like it. They're just falling the same rhetoric that all of the anti-raiders give when they want dumbed down raids or go on a "toxic raiders" rant. What exactly is the difference between having a LFG that lists the roles needed, including that all skill levels are welcome, versus the OP's matchmaking thing? If players are not lining up in droves for the LFG version, why would they for the OP's?

My opinion is that this isn't an issue with forming groups at all but instead a lack of having a large pool of players that want to do challenging content and willing to adapt to said content. Strikes have been stated to be the new stepping stone to raids. How many players even try to perform their roles well? How many actually try to do the mechanics? I see DPS players that get out-DPS'd by support players. I also see players that just stand there on the boss and face tank damage; they don't even try to avoid it. The OP's suggestions won't resolve this and any groups created using this matchmaking system will quickly run into this and fall apart. This is one of the primary reasons that you see many LFG with requirements.

it's not fictitious, it's the sad truth about the raider community, anyone that play know that, also there's no reason to fight so hard against a matchmaking to put new players on raids, that they are not even going to use because they have a pre-made, the only logical reason are because they are toxic and want to be a minority.lfg put away new players because they saw the toxic on titles of the groups and never look back simple as that.

if someone sell raids you already know the low mindset of those people.

2ra2qxorpgd51.png

does not matter if pug will fail, some will succeed, it's a raid, it's supposed to be harder, new players will be willing to try and join without to have to deal with the toxic commanders, like i said before it's a matchmaking not a 100% win rate raid maker, also if they put minimion check on power or condi to dps and enter, it will be harder to see dps with lower dps than a support.

just because you will not use it because you prefer a lfg, does not mean everyone else won't, you can still do your lfg and let other players choose to use it.

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@"SeikeNz.3526" said:it's not fictitious, it's the sad truth about the raider community, anyone that play know that, also there's no reason to fight so hard against a matchmaking to put new players on raids, that they are not even going to use because they have a pre-made, the only logical reason are because they are toxic and want to be a minority.lfg put away new players because they saw the toxic on titles of the groups and never look back simple as that.

There are toxic raiders just as there are toxic casuals. Toxicity isn't exclusive to any particular type of content. The matchmaking system you suggested won't resolve anything and would just end up being a waste of resources.

if someone sell raids you already know the low mindset of those people.

That's a toxic thing to say.

2ra2qxorpgd51.png

What's your point? Anet has made it clear that posting raid sell ads on LFG is acceptable. They're offering a service just like those who port people to the end of a JP, assist with achievements using squad markers, and do HP runs.

does not matter if pug will fail, some will succeed, it's a raid, it's supposed to be harder, new players will be willing to try and join without to have to deal with the toxic commanders, like i said before it's a matchmaking not a 100% win rate raid maker, also if they put minimion check on power or condi to dps and enter, it will be harder to see dps with lower dps than a support.

What will happen is that you'll get players of various degrees of skill levels who will put in varying degrees of effort. After several fails with little progression, the majority of these groups will fall apart. You already see it in strikes. You'll then have toxic players who will yell at each other.

just because you will not use it because you prefer a lfg, does not mean everyone else won't, you can still do your lfg and let other players choose to use it.

Do a poll then and see how many people would actually use your matchmaking system.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"SeikeNz.3526" said:it's not fictitious, it's the sad truth about the raider community, anyone that play know that, also there's no reason to fight so hard against a matchmaking to put new players on raids, that they are not even going to use because they have a pre-made, the only logical reason are because they are toxic and want to be a minority.lfg put away new players because they saw the toxic on titles of the groups and never look back simple as that.

There are toxic raiders just as there are toxic casuals. Toxicity isn't exclusive to any particular type of content. The matchmaking system you suggested won't resolve anything and would just end up being a waste of resources.

if someone sell raids you already know the low mindset of those people.

That's a toxic thing to say.this is the truth even if it hurts

2ra2qxorpgd51.png

What's your point? Anet has made it clear that posting raid sell ads on LFG is acceptable. They're offering a service just like those who port people to the end of a JP, assist with achievements using squad markers, and do HP runs.so if you pay them u can go afk because they will solo it for you? no they will need you to do right and finish with him, they are just leechers/scammers and should be ignored by everyone.

does not matter if pug will fail, some will succeed, it's a raid, it's supposed to be harder, new players will be willing to try and join without to have to deal with the toxic commanders, like i said before it's a matchmaking not a 100% win rate raid maker, also if they put minimion check on power or condi to dps and enter, it will be harder to see dps with lower dps than a support.

What will happen is that you'll get players of various degrees of skill levels who will put in varying degrees of effort. After several fails with little progression, the majority of these groups will fall apart. You already see it in strikes. You'll then have toxic players who will yell at each other.that's what happens when you join pugs, people with various degrees of skill levels, does not mean they can't finish it, if people leave because they can't accept a fail, the match making can search for others.

just because you will not use it because you prefer a lfg, does not mean everyone else won't, you can still do your lfg and let other players choose to use it.

Do a poll then and see how many people would actually use your matchmaking system.

forums players are not all the players in game, sorry, if anet did an official pool inside the game you would get a real statistic

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:it's not fictitious, it's the sad truth about the raider community, anyone that play know that, also there's no reason to fight so hard against a matchmaking to put new players on raids, that they are not even going to use because they have a pre-made, the only logical reason are because they are toxic and want to be a minority.lfg put away new players because they saw the toxic on titles of the groups and never look back simple as that.

There are toxic raiders just as there are toxic casuals. Toxicity isn't exclusive to any particular type of content. The matchmaking system you suggested won't resolve anything and would just end up being a waste of resources.

if someone sell raids you already know the low mindset of those people.

That's a toxic thing to say.this is the truth even if it hurts

This is you being hypocritical.

2ra2qxorpgd51.png

What's your point? Anet has made it clear that posting raid sell ads on LFG is acceptable. They're offering a service just like those who port people to the end of a JP, assist with achievements using squad markers, and do HP runs.so if you pay them u can go afk because they will solo it for you? no they will need you to do right and finish with him, they are just leechers and should be ignored by everyone.

I don't even know what this response is about...

does not matter if pug will fail, some will succeed, it's a raid, it's supposed to be harder, new players will be willing to try and join without to have to deal with the toxic commanders, like i said before it's a matchmaking not a 100% win rate raid maker, also if they put minimion check on power or condi to dps and enter, it will be harder to see dps with lower dps than a support.

What will happen is that you'll get players of various degrees of skill levels who will put in varying degrees of effort. After several fails with little progression, the majority of these groups will fall apart. You already see it in strikes. You'll then have toxic players who will yell at each other.that's what happens when you join pugs, people with various degrees of skill levels, does not mean they can't finish it, if people leave because they can't accept a fail, the match making can search for others.

It was never said that some would not be able to complete a raid encounter. I suggest you form a group of random players and see what it would actually be like.

just because you will not use it because you prefer a lfg, does not mean everyone else won't, you can still do your lfg and let other players choose to use it.

Do a poll then and see how many people would actually use your matchmaking system.

forums players are not all the players in game, sorry, if anet did an official pool inside the game you would get a real statistic

Sounds like an excuse.

You're constantly ignoring and not addressing any faults given about your system. Not that it matters as your system will never be implemented. While it's interesting to argue about it, there's really no point.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:After reading this thread again, it seems that the OP just created a fictitious issue in order to justify their own suggestion. It also seems fairly obvious that they have zero raiding experience nor have tried to gain any through the suggestions that have been given in this thread and the plethora of others like it. They're just falling the same rhetoric that all of the anti-raiders give when they want dumbed down raids or go on a "toxic raiders" rant. What exactly is the difference between having a LFG that lists the roles needed, including that all skill levels are welcome, versus the OP's matchmaking thing? If players are not lining up in droves for the LFG version, why would they for the OP's?

My opinion is that this isn't an issue with forming groups at all but instead a lack of having a large pool of players that want to do challenging content and willing to adapt to said content. Strikes have been stated to be the new stepping stone to raids. How many players even try to perform their roles well? How many actually try to do the mechanics? I see DPS players that get out-DPS'd by support players. I also see players that just stand there on the boss and face tank damage; they don't even try to avoid it. The OP's suggestions won't resolve this and any groups created using this matchmaking system will quickly run into this and fall apart. This is one of the primary reasons that you see many LFG with requirements.

it's not fictitious, it's the sad truth about the raider community, anyone that play know that, also there's no reason to fight so hard against a matchmaking to put new players on raids, that they are not even going to use because they have a pre-made, the only logical reason are because they are toxic and want to be a minority.lfg put away new players because they saw the toxic on titles of the groups and never look back simple as that.

if someone sell raids you already know the low mindset of those people.

2ra2qxorpgd51.png

does not matter if pug will fail, some will succeed, it's a raid, it's supposed to be harder, new players will be willing to try and join without to have to deal with the toxic commanders, like i said before it's a matchmaking not a 100% win rate raid maker, also if they put minimion check on power or condi to dps and enter, it will be harder to see dps with lower dps than a support.

just because you will not use it because you prefer a lfg, does not mean everyone else won't, you can still do your lfg and let other players choose to use it.

Sorry but your inexperience and lack of knowledge shows up quite strongly even from this post (not to mention earlier posts).

  1. Some of the reasons why people fight against matchmaking is that it'd simply be waste of already scarce dev resources (which were reduced greatly 'cause a thing happened) and it'd just scatter and drive people even further away from trying.
  2. The image you posted just happens to have LFG for 2 infamous noob killer bosses. Both of them quickly become really really difficult to beat if you don't have boons and Boneskinner wipes squads without adequate support in a minute, usually less. And let Kitty just tell you, healing thru 7 minute Boneskinner isn't fun thing to do. Kitty's done lots of crazy stuff (she's pretty infamous for doing that in raids) and healing through that is among the most stressful things Kitty's done this far and she's a damn goddess of heal scourge pretty much.
  3. Kitty's never had a pre-made static, she's not known as super-toxic (though Kitty is quite ill-tempered due to some people trying to prevent her from playing off-meta at times) and she's been fighting to make raids look less frightening for years by providing newbie-friendly builds (for ex. condi pistol deadeye, kitless holosmith/scrapper, healscourge, you name it...) yet she finds the idea of matchmaker bad for the same reason as the pro static toxic players. Is it because we're all exp and thus know nothing and people who don't know even the very basics and refuse to play with others with even the most minimal organization know better? Kitty sincerely doubts that.
  4. While writing this post, Kitty again went to Cold War daily public and in 25 minutes, only 1 other person joined and this time Kitty was there closer to primetime. Meanwhile there's 3 Cold War squad with those oh-so-toxic class requirements on LFG...oh wait, they already filled up before Kitty even finished writing this one sentence. So, do you actually have any evidence to back up your "matchmaking is faster and gets noobs in 'cause LFG is scary"? In strike missions, Kitty has pretty good evidence now that LFG with its restrictions is vastly more popular than random 10-person. Wonder why?
  5. "if they put minimion check on power or condi to dps and enter, it will be harder to see dps with lower dps than a support." That's not how dps works, yo. Condi damage is pretty useless without expertise/relevant condi duration. Power is useless without precision and ferocity and as matter of fact, most healers currently have over 3000 power with might due to harrier's gears. They only do bad damage 'cause no prec+fero. With your suggestion boost-geared rabid and soldier's dpsers would also get into raids and they have just as much power as healers and rabid actually has higher condi damage stat than viper's. Result: we'd still have dpsers who do less dps than healers for the exact same reasons as they currently do. And if you start setting prec/fero/expertise limits, you block out newbies who are circumventing those with flat % boosts that don't show up in stats due to inoptimal gears.
  6. In Kitty's experience, anyone truly interested in raiding has at least tried to put in the effort to have the very basic requirements done before raiding and newbies she's talked with usually mention getting scared of raiding due to extremely struggling on their first time which has made them feel like they're not good enough for raiding. People who got scared away by toxic first experience have been a small minority. True, there is a toxic part in raid community but that's mostly within the speedrunner tier and majority of raiders aren't very toxic (unless they have a really bad day) unless you do something really stupid like join as dps when they were looking for ANY healer. Kitty's had to kick people way too often for that reason and lately that problem has actually been quite significant leading to kicks that wouldn't have happened with the most minimal reading comprehension. Though if you're one of those people who've got kicked for that reason...well, that explain the "toxic, toxic, toxic..." whinging.

E: And Kitty already bets that Seike won't read even half of this post before responding.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:it's not fictitious, it's the sad truth about the raider community, anyone that play know that, also there's no reason to fight so hard against a matchmaking to put new players on raids, that they are not even going to use because they have a pre-made, the only logical reason are because they are toxic and want to be a minority.lfg put away new players because they saw the toxic on titles of the groups and never look back simple as that.

There are toxic raiders just as there are toxic casuals. Toxicity isn't exclusive to any particular type of content. The matchmaking system you suggested won't resolve anything and would just end up being a waste of resources.

if someone sell raids you already know the low mindset of those people.

That's a toxic thing to say.this is the truth even if it hurts

This is you being hypocritical.

2ra2qxorpgd51.png

What's your point? Anet has made it clear that posting raid sell ads on LFG is acceptable. They're offering a service just like those who port people to the end of a JP, assist with achievements using squad markers, and do HP runs.so if you pay them u can go afk because they will solo it for you? no they will need you to do right and finish with him, they are just leechers and should be ignored by everyone.

I don't even know what this response is about...

they put alway new players from the lfg

does not matter if pug will fail, some will succeed, it's a raid, it's supposed to be harder, new players will be willing to try and join without to have to deal with the toxic commanders, like i said before it's a matchmaking not a 100% win rate raid maker, also if they put minimion check on power or condi to dps and enter, it will be harder to see dps with lower dps than a support.

What will happen is that you'll get players of various degrees of skill levels who will put in varying degrees of effort. After several fails with little progression, the majority of these groups will fall apart. You already see it in strikes. You'll then have toxic players who will yell at each other.that's what happens when you join pugs, people with various degrees of skill levels, does not mean they can't finish it, if people leave because they can't accept a fail, the match making can search for others.

It was never said that some would not be able to complete a raid encounter. I suggest you form a group of random players and see what it would actually be like.that's the problem!! you don't find players on the lfg can't you understand that? the new players was put away because of those old players, if you try to find/make a raid there no one will join because they don't look there anymore!!

and the old players will not join your raid because they are too good for you.

t4 100 cm, you can join with pugs, you find players of all skills, they fail alot, some leave then you search for another until you finish it.

the problem here is that you can't find players on lfg raids unless you are playing at EU because they are less toxic.

just because you will not use it because you prefer a lfg, does not mean everyone else won't, you can still do your lfg and let other players choose to use it.

Do a poll then and see how many people would actually use your matchmaking system.

forums players are not all the players in game, sorry, if anet did an official pool inside the game you would get a real statistic

Sounds like an excuse.

You're constantly ignoring and not addressing any faults given about your system. Not that it matters as your system will never be implemented. While it's interesting to argue about it, there's really no point.

how at max 50 votes of forum players, will define something, lmao?

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:forums players are not all the players in game, sorry, if anet did an official pool inside the game you would get a real statistic

The players are already voting in-game by showing a clear preference for how they are grouping. They do it every single day, for weeks and months by now. Initially for the first 1-2 weeks, players tried to use the auto group feature, especially while the first strike was out (the one which good players can solo). By now, no one is using the auto group feature.

There you have your statistic. You not wanting to accept this harsh reality is your problem.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"SeikeNz.3526" said:forums players are not all the players in game, sorry, if anet did an official pool inside the game you would get a real statistic

The players are already voting in-game by showing a clear preference for how they are grouping. They do it every single day, for weeks and months by now. Initially for the first 1-2 weeks, players tried to use the auto group feature, especially while the first strike was out (the one which good players can solo). By now, no one is using the auto group feature.

There you have your statistic. You not wanting to accept this harsh reality is your problem.

you want to compare a matchmaking with checks with a auto grouping feature without even a role definition where everyone can be a "dps", OK

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:forums players are not all the players in game, sorry, if anet did an official pool inside the game you would get a real statistic

The players are already voting in-game by showing a clear preference for how they are grouping. They do it every single day, for weeks and months by now. Initially for the first 1-2 weeks, players tried to use the auto group feature, especially while the first strike was out (the one which good players can solo). By now, no one is using the auto group feature.

There you have your statistic. You not wanting to accept this harsh reality is your problem.

you want to compare a matchmaking with checks with a auto grouping feature without even a role definition where everyone can be a "dps", OK

Not needed for the easiest strike. Again, the easiest strike mission has literally no requirements in terms of healers, tanks, dps or anything. It can be soloed.

Yet even here, no one uses the auto grouping option.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:it's not fictitious, it's the sad truth about the raider community, anyone that play know that, also there's no reason to fight so hard against a matchmaking to put new players on raids, that they are not even going to use because they have a pre-made, the only logical reason are because they are toxic and want to be a minority.lfg put away new players because they saw the toxic on titles of the groups and never look back simple as that.

There are toxic raiders just as there are toxic casuals. Toxicity isn't exclusive to any particular type of content. The matchmaking system you suggested won't resolve anything and would just end up being a waste of resources.

if someone sell raids you already know the low mindset of those people.

That's a toxic thing to say.this is the truth even if it hurts

This is you being hypocritical.

2ra2qxorpgd51.png

What's your point? Anet has made it clear that posting raid sell ads on LFG is acceptable. They're offering a service just like those who port people to the end of a JP, assist with achievements using squad markers, and do HP runs.so if you pay them u can go afk because they will solo it for you? no they will need you to do right and finish with him, they are just leechers and should be ignored by everyone.

I don't even know what this response is about...

they put alway new players from the lfg

They kick people who do not read their LFG description or intentional misrepresent themselves as meeting any requirements.

does not matter if pug will fail, some will succeed, it's a raid, it's supposed to be harder, new players will be willing to try and join without to have to deal with the toxic commanders, like i said before it's a matchmaking not a 100% win rate raid maker, also if they put minimion check on power or condi to dps and enter, it will be harder to see dps with lower dps than a support.

What will happen is that you'll get players of various degrees of skill levels who will put in varying degrees of effort. After several fails with little progression, the majority of these groups will fall apart. You already see it in strikes. You'll then have toxic players who will yell at each other.that's what happens when you join pugs, people with various degrees of skill levels, does not mean they can't finish it, if people leave because they can't accept a fail, the match making can search for others.

It was never said that some would not be able to complete a raid encounter. I suggest you form a group of random players and see what it would actually be like.that's the problem!! you don't find players on the lfg can't you understand that? the new players was put away because of those old players, if you try to find/make a raid there no one will join because they don't look there anymore!!

You don't find new players often because typically they go to the training guilds as it's more efficient to have someone experienced lead a group rather than a full group of inexperienced players trying to attempt it. You also have provided zero evidence that things would be any different with your matchmaking system. You have no evidence that players would actually use it.

and the old players will not join your raid because they are too good for you.

t4 100 cm, you can join with pugs, you find players of all skills, they fail alot, some leave then you search for another until you finish it.

the problem here is that you can't find players on lfg raids unless you are playing at EU because they are less toxic.

just because you will not use it because you prefer a lfg, does not mean everyone else won't, you can still do your lfg and let other players choose to use it.

Do a poll then and see how many people would actually use your matchmaking system.

forums players are not all the players in game, sorry, if anet did an official pool inside the game you would get a real statistic

Sounds like an excuse.

You're constantly ignoring and not addressing any faults given about your system. Not that it matters as your system will never be implemented. While it's interesting to argue about it, there's really no point.

how at max 50 votes of forum players, will define something, lmao?

The votes can give you a general idea on how things may turn out in a player wide survey. It wouldn't be 100% reliable but more relevant than you going off on your own opinion.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:he is showing that you don't need the perfect party to finish something, a mm will not make a perfect party, it's about making a base party, will take longer to finish a raid than a perfect premade, for sure, but at least players will have the chance to play it.

I understand the purpose of the post that I quoted. It presented a single specific example to prove that a full raidsquad following definite builds is not necessary to defeat raid bosses. What I still consider unreasonable, is the extrapolation that this means a matchmaking system as suggested in the OP will be a success in gw2. The kind of person that would sit down to solo a raidboss for 4 consecutive hours is, at least according to my observation, representative of a tiny fraction of the total playerbase. Furthermore, players with an attitude similiar to that of someone who would clear a raidboss solo, are playing the content already. While an automatic grouping system for raids promises to be of benefit specifically to people who currently are not playing the content.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:[...} it's better trying and failing than never even enter a raid in their game life, because of the toxic players premade raids, show proof, dps meters, all that show how current raiders are toxic and because of that raid content is dead, because noone want to join and play with those guys, there's nothing to do with raid being harder. [...]

We sure must be really toxic to invite new players to join our Raid static if we are missing a member - we could also just dont care and do the bosses with 9 man. I never encountered any toxic behavior there, even if the new guy messed up several times in a row or someone of us did.

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Not sure what part of NA people are playing on. I frequently full clear from the lfg with little problems during the week. I just tag up , post an lfg: w5 fc lf tanks , druid g2 kite, cdps gods . Ping role and kp. Ezpz

Yeh if you post some weird stuff on the lfg people might not join. Like vg semi exp lf ranged dps ( I've seen this before and have no idea what it does ).

Yeh sometimes it takes longer to fill certain wings but that's fine. I also use my guild , RA , and other discords to find players.

Mmr for raids sounds interesting , but the target audience cannot effectively use the product. You would need a gear check to que up as a healer and tank to start and by that point a I can just discriminate between tank and dps on my own. The test bed was already made in strikes and the matchmaking there is a meme. I tried every once in a while, but leading my own instances content has the best results.

Long time ago I was the boon herald looking to get into raids. I got my own tag and got to work. Years later I don't regret that decision and wished I made it earlier. From my perspective back then ,a matching system would have gotten me into more instances and possible kills , but there are no guarantees the squad will make any progress. For example a bad kiter on qadim will nuke the raid in under a minute so 8 other people get nothing out of the run.

Lots of things to consider , but dev time being finite and the barrier to entry being hitting the p button already I would say matchmake is not worth the man hours. In a world where time was free then yes more options sounds good.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:forums players are not all the players in game, sorry, if anet did an official pool inside the game you would get a real statistic

The players are already voting in-game by showing a clear preference for how they are grouping. They do it every single day, for weeks and months by now. Initially for the first 1-2 weeks, players tried to use the auto group feature, especially while the first strike was out (the one which good players can solo). By now, no one is using the auto group feature.

There you have your statistic. You not wanting to accept this harsh reality is your problem.

you want to compare a matchmaking with checks with a auto grouping feature without even a role definition where everyone can be a "dps", OK

so have you ever done a raid the thing is there is nothing preventing you from making an lfg and get random ppl . thinkl of if the matchmaking system would drop some bearbows(core rangers only uses longbow and soldier gear and bear ) and minion mancher necros you never reach the thing is many mechs can be outhealed the timer is preventing this other wise you could jsut have 10 mm necros afk soloing it. like i did an fight with keep construct noticed our daredevil had way to low dps for a thief like like lower than if he just used auto turned out he had no exotic gear but white gear he started with with some blue and green acc . in this case you have 1 person whos essentially leeching before arc this was common as how could ppl know you did anything . you are a toxic casual who wants your way but you forget something this system would be unused pretty fast as many who drop in would have no idea what to do and that could be solved by banning static that you must use matchmaking but that would end up in ppl just stop raiding. its why training guilds exists someone experianced gets to choose to teach rather than it being something they have to do and alot of ppl will also ignore it becuse they have this thinking ( i myself had it and i am bit new to raiding like 94li and low confidence had that i am super strong open world this will be easy mentallity) wich leads them to ignore that mechanics exists for open world hasnt really done much in that area . so they would easly get overwhelmed and then frustrated and then just give up on the mode for its to hard

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@"SeikeNz.3526" said:you want to compare a matchmaking with checks with a auto grouping feature without even a role definition where everyone can be a "dps", OKThere can't be a role check in the matchmaking, because the roles needed are purely player-defined. A game doesn't know what a "hands kiter" for Deimos is. A game doesn't differentiate between tempest healer, druid or healscourge, even though each of those "roles" aren't exactly exchangeable.A game would have no idea that the meta has changed from dual chrono to quickbrand/alaren, and couldn't adjust the matchmaker accordingly. A good matchmaker simply cannot exist in a game that does not have a veryt limited and clearly defined (and easily recognizable) set of roles. In games like GW2, you will always end up with a system that simply doesn't see that the group of players that it has thrown together has no required synergy, and may even lack key roles to even finish the encounter.

TL/DR:In GW2 you cannot create a matchmaker with checks, because the game has nothing to check for. That's because the things that need to be checked are defined outside game.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

TL/DR:In GW2 you cannot create a matchmaker with checks, because the game has nothing to check for. That's because the things that need to be checked are defined outside game.

I actually agree with you (and everyone else) who thinks the matchmaking tool will be an utter failure, but to play devil's advocate on behalf of the OP: sure, these things are currently defined outside of the game, but the devs could simply co-opt this information and put it into the build checker OP proposes.

The hilarious thing is, OP's suggestion would require ANet to literally hard code the build and gear meta into the game, this same meta that OP claims is so stupid and toxic. He keeps accusing doubters of being meta elitists, but it's OP's own idea that would bring the player-created meta officially into the game's code. The low logical power of this idea is astounding.

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@voltaicbore.8012 said:

TL/DR:In GW2 you cannot create a matchmaker with checks, because the game has nothing to check for. That's because the things that need to be checked are defined
outside
game.

I actually agree with you (and everyone else) who thinks the matchmaking tool will be an utter failure, but to play devil's advocate on behalf of the OP: sure, these things are currently defined outside of the game, but the devs could simply co-opt this information and put it into the build checker OP proposes.Not without completely redoing the whole class system from scratch. And without redoing the encounters as well, because in a lot of cases the roles needed depend on strategy used - so you'd basically need to hardcode the
strategies
as well.

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OP complaining about LFG is laughable. I got into a group 30 mins before reset, we got a full squad in 10 mins and were in on the dot after reset and cleared W1, 2 and 4 (w/o Deimos) and i had to drop after KC in W3 because i was falling asleep at my desk. Before I was doing this, I joined RA and was getting myself into training and practice runs to get experience.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

TL/DR:In GW2 you cannot create a matchmaker with checks, because the game has nothing to check for. That's because the things that need to be checked are defined
outside
game.

I actually agree with you (and everyone else) who thinks the matchmaking tool will be an utter failure, but to play devil's advocate on behalf of the OP: sure, these things are currently defined outside of the game, but the devs could simply co-opt this information and put it into the build checker OP proposes.Not without completely redoing the whole class system from scratch. And without redoing the encounters as well, because in a lot of cases the roles needed depend on strategy used - so you'd basically need to hardcode the
strategies
as well.

Exactly. The spec/gear meta is merely an extension of the overall strategy meta. It's kinda sad that OP doesn't see how instituting gear checks and build checks would literally hard code the 'toxic' meta into the game. It would, as you mentioned, essentially cement a certain strategy meta into the newer folks LFR would be designed for, which spells certain disaster (in addition to horrendous queue times) for the vast majority of such folk.

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@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:

TL/DR:In GW2 you cannot create a matchmaker with checks, because the game has nothing to check for. That's because the things that need to be checked are defined
outside
game.

I actually agree with you (and everyone else) who thinks the matchmaking tool will be an utter failure, but to play devil's advocate on behalf of the OP: sure, these things are currently defined outside of the game, but the devs could simply co-opt this information and put it into the build checker OP proposes.

The hilarious thing is, OP's suggestion would require ANet to literally
hard code the build and gear meta
into the game, this same meta that OP claims is so stupid and toxic. He keeps accusing doubters of being meta elitists, but it's OP's own idea that would bring the player-created meta officially into the game's code. The low logical power of this idea is astounding.

It's even more than the irony of the OP being against the meta. Let's say for a second that Anet does listen to the OP and hard code a build/gear meta into the matchmaking system. Then a few months later they release a patch that makes a specific build invalid or a build too good for a role than another build that was hard-coded for that role. What happens then? Madness. And let's not take into account new elite specs added to the game in the next expansion. A system like that would make balancing a nightmare, not that it already isn't. Furthermore, imagine going to Deimos for the FIRST time and seeing the "hand kite role" already there... it's not like the community knows the builds needed for specific content before they try the content.

So yeah I agree with everyone saying an automatic matchmaking system would never work in this game. Unless they kill variety and diversity in the game to make sure all the "tank" builds are interchangeable, all the "heal" builds are interchangeable, and so on. That way a player would use the matchmaker to join as "healer" and they will be accepted regardless of which healer build they used. But that would mean changing the fundamental mechanic of the game.

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@"SeikeNz.3526" said:it's too much to ask? everyone should enjoy raids / end game content.

not everyone want to join a guild or have 10 friends to raid.

also will kill the "raid sellers" on the lobby.kill the show proof players

random raids - MATCHMAKINGspecific raids - MATCHMAKING

if someone leaves just re-queue his slot to replace him

guild players don't need to use it.

Sure let's do it. At least it will filter all the people that cannot play the game, so that they all end up together and die together for hours without even knowing why.

Experienced players won't use this because nobody wants to queue with rands outside a training. It's literally as if sPvP queued top 10 players against silver or gold players (It does sometimes). So you'll have ten noobs, 3/4 of them not running the right builds and the 9/10 of those running the right build not knowing rotation/how to use it. Have fun doing the boss, I personally don't care since I won't use it.

Or alternatively you actually invest efforts into learning to raid and you will easely raid.

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