Chilling Darkness ; Removal the ICD

[killfil.3472]

Would it not be acceptable?

[Dadnir.5038]

Too much PvP potential into this trait unfortunately. So, no, it probably wouldn't be acceptable.Reducing the ICD in PvE wouldn't make it OP thought. But ANet could careless about necromancer's PvE dps (This or they think that the necromancer is in the right place in this gamemode).

[KrHome.1920]

Too much of a buff for well of darkness and nightfall.

The trait has excatly the amount of cooldown that both skills can trigger it 2 times. Anet does not want to trigger that trait 4 (nightfall) or 5 (well of darkness) times from one skill.

I did the math in some other thread before: 1 blind = 1 chill = 1/2 bleed(s) + 3 vulnerability ... on up to 5 targets with 2 skills on relatively low cooldowns that have multiple hits ... that's too much for one adept trait.

Nightfall and well of darkness would be the ultimate aoe cc skills. 5 or 6 seconds of perma chill and either blind or cripple + boon corrupt at the same time.

[killfil.3472]

DAMN THAT TRAIT BASICALLY USELESS NOW AIN'T IT!?

[Taril.8619]

@"killfil.3472" said:kitten THAT TRAIT BASICALLY USELESS NOW AIN'T IT!?

It's devalued significantly due to new Well of Darkness, yeah.

But it isn't "Useless" as it can still provide some benefit in PvP by applying Chill with Dagger 4, Reaper Shroud 2 and when boon corrupting Fury.

Especially compared to an actually useless trait like the one on the same tier, Insidious Disruption which is just lultier what with a paltry 3s Torment on CC with all of Necro's almost 0 hard CC skills...

[Dadnir.5038]

@Taril.8619 said:

@"killfil.3472" said:kitten THAT TRAIT BASICALLY USELESS NOW AIN'T IT!?

It's devalued significantly due to new Well of Darkness, yeah.

But it isn't "Useless" as it can still provide some benefit in PvP by applying Chill with Dagger 4, Reaper Shroud 2 and when boon corrupting Fury.

Especially compared to an actually useless trait like the one on the same tier, Insidious Disruption which is just lultier what with a paltry 3s Torment on CC with all of Necro's almost 0 hard CC skills...

Insidious disruption work with fear and necromancer do have quite a good access to fear (especially in PvP/WvW thanks to corrupted stability).

[Taril.8619]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@"killfil.3472" said:kitten THAT TRAIT BASICALLY USELESS NOW AIN'T IT!?

It's devalued significantly due to new Well of Darkness, yeah.

But it isn't "Useless" as it can still provide some benefit in PvP by applying Chill with Dagger 4, Reaper Shroud 2 and when boon corrupting Fury.

Especially compared to an actually useless trait like the one on the same tier, Insidious Disruption which is just lultier what with a paltry 3s Torment on CC with all of Necro's almost 0 hard CC skills...

Insidious disruption

work with fear and necromancer do have quite a good access to fear (especially in PvP/WvW thanks to corrupted stability).

Yeah, but it still sucks. Especially when you consider Terror which is essentially the same thing but way, way, way better.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Taril.8619 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:

Insidious disruption

work with fear and necromancer do have quite a good access to fear (especially in PvP/WvW thanks to corrupted stability).

Yeah, but it still sucks. Especially when you consider Terror which is essentially the same thing but way, way, way better.

Good grief, they do not compete against each other so you can benefit from both in a terror build. I believe it's an "ok" option for some builds given that fear make your foes run and torment have increased damage on moving foes.

[Taril.8619]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

Insidious disruption

work with fear and necromancer do have quite a good access to fear (especially in PvP/WvW thanks to corrupted stability).

Yeah, but it still sucks. Especially when you consider Terror which is essentially the same thing but way, way, way better.

Good grief, they do not compete against each other so you can benefit from both in a terror build. I believe it's an "ok" option for some builds given that fear make your foes run and torment have increased damage on moving foes.

And I still think it sucks. 3 seconds of 1 stack of torment is not particularly good.

Even in PvP if you're running a mass boon corrupt build so have more instances of Fear occuring to make it proc.

Literally, you'd get far more mileage out of the boon transfer on shroud that IS competing with this trait (Before even accounting for the defensive benefits it provides) or even the chill on blind trait that this thread is talking about.

When you're running a Terror build, you'll rarely even notice the damage it does compared to the main source of your damage which is the Terror trait itself.

[Lahmia.2193]

This trait is a fine example of Power Creep in gw2. It was nerfed originally (of which I'm still bitter about) because it was deemed too powerful when combined with Bitter Chill and Well of Darkness, back in Pre HoT. Now they just straight up added Chill to Well of Darkness.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

The trait have been nerfed years ago because of well of darkness, the almost spammable death's charge etc and of course doubled with the nerf of Deathly Chill.Then, 4 years after : new well of darkness with new chill on pulse and dmg :/

I think the icd is right, the chill is like >2sec in PvP if I remember, potentielly every 3sec ... it doesn't need more. It's really strong if you know how to space out skills/traits and should not reward with an almost instant 20sec chill people who overlap all theirs skills with blindness in the seconde.

If you're talking about Pve. Cold shoulder could give a condition damage modifier or Deathly chill could get back its 3 stacks of bleeding for 6sec as it would also reward all the whirl combos etc than just put the WoD+ nightfall for 32*(16sec) bleedings minimum without icd on Chilling darkness.Chilling darkness buff is not the centerpièce in my opinion to make condi reaper viable (pve or pvp), and not brainded.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:The trait have been nerfed years ago because of well of darkness, the almost spammable death's charge etc and of course doubled with the nerf of Deathly Chill.Then, 4 years after : new well of darkness with new chill on pulse and dmg :/

It was nerfed for PvP purpose because players whined about chill at that moment (it wasn't especially due to death charge and other things, it was just to tone done chill output in sPvP/WvW. Chill output that have been tuned down furthermore when they reduced the number of whirl finisher and incread the power damage of soul spiral.

I think the icd is right, the chill is like >2sec in PvP if I remember, potentielly every 3sec ... it doesn't need more. It's really strong if you know how to space out skills/traits and should not reward with an almost instant 20sec chill people who overlap all theirs skills with blindness in the seconde.

I do agree that The 3 second ICD is right in sPvP and even in WvW. I also do think that the chill added on well of darkness might be an issue in these 2 gamemode.However, I think that the ICD could have been reduced to 1 second in PvE instead of the addition of chill on well of darkness, this should have been enough to revive the reaper's condi builds (and the trait) while preserving sPvP from some excess of chill.

If you're talking about Pve. Cold shoulder could give a condition damage modifier or Deathly chill could get back its 3 stacks of bleeding for 6sec as it would also reward all the whirl combos etc than just put the WoD+ nightfall for 32*(16sec) bleedings minimum without icd on Chilling darkness.Chilling darkness buff is not the centerpièce in my opinion to make condi reaper viable (pve or pvp), and not brainded.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Dadnir.5038 said:It was nerfed for PvP purpose because players whined about chill at that moment (it wasn't especially due to death charge and other things, it was just to tone done chill output in sPvP/WvW. Chill output that have been tuned down furthermore when they reduced the number of whirl finisher and incread the power damage of soul spiral.

Death's Charge didn't exist when the 3 second ICD was introduced. That was done before the Specialization update pre-Heart of Thorns.

We have literally never gotten to use no-ICD Chilling Darkness and Reaper together.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:It was nerfed for PvP purpose because players whined about chill at that moment (it wasn't especially due to death charge and other things, it was just to tone done chill output in sPvP/WvW. Chill output that have been tuned down furthermore when they reduced the number of whirl finisher and incread the power damage of soul spiral.

Death's Charge didn't exist when the 3 second ICD was introduced. That was done before the Specialization update pre-Heart of Thorns.

We have literally never gotten to use no-ICD Chilling Darkness and Reaper together.

You*Obviously. They have nerfed the trait because of the beta.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:It was nerfed for PvP purpose because players whined about chill at that moment (it wasn't especially due to death charge and other things, it was just to tone done chill output in sPvP/WvW. Chill output that have been tuned down furthermore when they reduced the number of whirl finisher and incread the power damage of soul spiral.

Death's Charge didn't exist when the 3 second ICD was introduced. That was done before the Specialization update pre-Heart of Thorns.

We have literally never gotten to use no-ICD Chilling Darkness and Reaper together.

You*Obviously. They have nerfed the trait because of the beta.

Pretty sure they nerfed it before the first HoT beta.

There's no question they nerfed it due to Reaper, but it was purely on internals. No player got to try no-ICD Chilling Darkness Reaper.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:It was nerfed for PvP purpose because players whined about chill at that moment (it wasn't especially due to death charge and other things, it was just to tone done chill output in sPvP/WvW. Chill output that have been tuned down furthermore when they reduced the number of whirl finisher and incread the power damage of soul spiral.

Death's Charge didn't exist when the 3 second ICD was introduced. That was done before the Specialization update pre-Heart of Thorns.

We have literally never gotten to use no-ICD Chilling Darkness and Reaper together.

You*Obviously. They have nerfed the trait because of the beta.

It was nerfed because of the interaction between the newly introduced Bitter Chill and Well of Darkness, meaning each pulse granted unblockable Chill, Vuln (3) and blind. But yes it's very likely it was also a preemptive nerf because of Reaper.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:It was nerfed for PvP purpose because players whined about chill at that moment (it wasn't especially due to death charge and other things, it was just to tone done chill output in sPvP/WvW. Chill output that have been tuned down furthermore when they reduced the number of whirl finisher and incread the power damage of soul spiral.

Death's Charge didn't exist when the 3 second ICD was introduced. That was done before the Specialization update pre-Heart of Thorns.

We have literally never gotten to use no-ICD Chilling Darkness and Reaper together.

You*Obviously. They have nerfed the trait because of the beta.

It was nerfed because of the interaction between the newly introduced Bitter Chill and Well of Darkness, meaning each pulse granted unblockable Chill, Vuln (3) and blind. But yes it's very likely it was also a preemptive nerf because of Reaper.

^That

It was nerfed well before specializations and the power creep they brought. Back in the days of dungeon balance vs PvP balance the lack of a cool down on the trait made Well of Darkness strong in PvP. Conditions like chill and boons like swiftness also affected mobility skills making chill stronger than it is today. Professions also had less condition management skills so pumping out chill in pulses, reducing distance travelled by mobility skills and slowing cool down timers on opponents was a big deal. (Boss mobs in PvE, as usual, were unaffected.)