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Dragons and the Natural Way or Why Jormag is Cool

Tsakhi.8124Tsakhi.8124 Member ✭✭✭

Often, I find myself contemplating the great mysteries of the world: Is Atlantis real? What was the Bloop? Where does that other sock go? Then it kind of goes off the rails and delves into more of a fanciful sort of place, full of fast centaurs, faster humans that can outrun said swift centaurs, and dragons. There, I said it, dragons. (watch the skies, traveler.) They have permeated fantasy for as long as I can recall and are typically demonized because they go against the human imperative of complete dominance. However, dragons are beyond the concepts of good and evil, they are primal, they are beyond human comprehension. Why am I making this hopefully concise post? Jormag fascinates me: They are the embodiment of temptation, they usher in the promise of peace from the past of chaos, and for all we know, that could very well be the case. Dragons are beyond our sphere of knowledge, but we are not beyond a dragon’s. They were here before; they will remain long after,

As stated earlier: Dragons are primal defenders of the natural order, that being the spheres of death, growth, destruction, stasis, and absolution. Looking at it from that angle, it is easy to see why killing dragons is a bad idea in Tyria. We fear what we don’t understand and Jormag not only knows this but seemingly capitalizes on it. But does exploiting the human condition make them evil? Not really. Nature’s way is separate from our own, dogs don’t contemplate being raccoons any more than a cat ponders being a platypus; they just are, no existential crisis. The same can be said of dragons: they are, they don’t see destruction the way we see it, they see it as a process, not an end or beginning. I feel as though dragons are vastly misunderstood and perhaps that’s the point: you cannot pin what you don’t comprehend.

So, like, okay, insomnia. If this doesn’t make sense I am super sorry. I might add to this later. Thank you for reading.

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Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It’s a rather pointless analysis though - their methods are destructive to the geography of the World and all other life.

    Process, misunderstood, beyond comprehension - it doesn’t really matter when the end result is what it is.

    As for remaining long after, well 3 won’t be ;)

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2020

    Dragons intentionally rip the magic out of the living and destroy magic using civilizations, but I think it is because it is the only way they know to restore magical balance, and over the vast number of dragon rises, that is just what they have become accustomed to.

    I am largely basing this on what Kralkatorric said in his final instance

    I only hope that you never have to kill what you love.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Descent#Dialogue

    This makes me think of Kralkatorric's torment. Glint, when purified has a tremendous amount of empathy to mortals, and Aurene was also able to be raised to be the same. I think that lineage of dragons have shared that personality. They dragons nurtured the planet to provide magic and life, but when the life gets out of hand they have to reign it in. That process of nurturing life, then having to reigning it in, perverted their consciences. For Kralkatorric this conflict expresses as the torment that afflicted him. I think Jormag is also in some sort of perverse state of mind. Perhaps in a cat lady kind of way (don't mind the charr). Trying to herd all the helpless mortals into a home, but proving a horrendous existence in that house.

    So they might have been just maintaining the order in their world, but they also have sentience and a conscience of some sort. They may have even had a sense of accomplishment and love with nurturing life at first. But, regardless of the past, they now use very perverse methods to keep the world in one piece.

    And that is also a part of Glint's legacy according to Vlast. To do the natural order balancing, but without killing everything to do it by having mortals take on that role.

  • I love that ArenaNet is actually playing with the idea of bias right now.

    "You think they're this? You have theories that they're perhaps that thing, or some other hting, or even many things that are alien to you. Maybe these are excuses for you to smash them because you like to kill things? Maybe they're justifications for how you react to presences that are unusual and superior to you? But perhaps they're also a person too? Wouldn't that make all of this pomp and bluster irrelevant?"

    We learned with Kralkatorrik that a number of the Elder Dragons are tormented, so it isn't their fault. It's as wrong to blame Kralkatorrik for what happened as it would be no different than blaming a human under the influence of some form of mind control for what they did at the behest of said influence. Kralkatorrik clearly had no way to resist the torment. I mean, it was effectively a parasite controlling him and the writers have told us that the affliction of torment has been around for some time. Much, much longer than the events of Guild Wars 2 have gone on for.

    Jormag's position is interesting because it can be empathised with. It's not difficult to do. If you had something you needed to do but you couldn't tell those who might ally with you if they knew? That means that someone is listening and that someone, group, or entity might be able to stop you if they knew your plans ahead of time. So you want to tell them that you're up to something good, just as you want to be able to illustrate for them who the true enemy is, but first you have to make something happen. It'll be proof of your intentions and a step in the right direction.

    Jormag is doing something that's very important to them. They're trying to do something that's going to change the world in some way. I have theories about what it is but... I don't think that Jormag's intent is ill. I do think though that they know something we don't, that someone in Dragon's Watch isn't who they appear to be. Since the Commander won't let them in, as far as they know the torment might've gotten its hooks into others within Dragon's Watch too.

    Anyway, to say that the Elder Dragons have harmed with intent is just speaking from bias. The Icebrood Saga is all about playing with the concepts of bigotry and prejudice. That's really obvious. Jora killed Svanir not because he aggressed in any way but "because he looked funny." The kodan have started murdering their own if anyone starts sounding even slightly appreciative of Jormag. There's xenophobic paranoia written all over this. It's something I've had a lot of experience with as autism isn't exactly well understood by neurotypicals. I mean, I've had such a hard life that I have various forms of bodily dysphoria and dysmorphia just because of how terrible humanity can be. I don't really identify with humans much.

    The Icebrood Saga feels like a story that's going to make a certain kind of mindset feel very silly for being so ready to judge a book by its cover. The charr are evil! The dragons are evil! The sky is falling!

    I'm glad they're doing this because it's a far more boring story where an entire species can be defined as being a particular way. Even Dungeons & Dragons has begun to move away from this and it would be to ArenaNet's shame if they remained stuck in the past when even an organisation as traditionalist as Wizards of the Coast was moving on. That's why they're doing this, in part. The world of Tyria needs to change to be relevant, they're attracting some very profitable underserved demographics with this content and they know that.

    I mean, they really know that. There's an easter egg with a hidden whisper if you weren't so quick to smash all of the idols of Jormag without really having a reason to. The Icebrood Saga has been rewarding the curious with titbits of information that has gone missed by others.

    "X is truly evil because of how X looks, because X is alien to me, because X may be more intelligent and clever than I am, and because I have some preconceived notions about an entire species all being exactly the same."

    That point of view is... it's so tiresome. It leaves me feeling very weary and I feel like it needs to go away. We don't need that in Guild Wars 2, nor do we need anyone who can't stop thinking that way. This is a new direction for the game that will result in the better world that Glint speaks of and Jormag dreams of, at the expense of the toxic one that is.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:

    Jormag is doing something that's very important to them. They're trying to do something that's going to change the world in some way. I have theories about what it is but... I don't think that Jormag's intent is ill. I do think though that they know something we don't, that someone in Dragon's Watch isn't who they appear to be. Since the Commander won't let them in, as far as they know the torment might've gotten its hooks into others within Dragon's Watch too.

    Alternatively, Jormag genuinely thinks that they're doing something good, but they're wrong. And even if they're right, that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong in Dragon's Watch, just that Jormag is being cautious... just as the Commander is.

    And let's be real here - the Commander has good reason to be cautious. Actions speak louder than words, and thus far (at least from the Commander's perspective) Jormag has enslaved four Spirits of the Wild, driven the norn out of their homelands, empowered a splinter sect of the norn that has become a destructive force across most of the Shiverpeaks, and instigated a civil war among the charr in order to enslave themself yet another army. Meanwhile, Zhaitan and Mordremoth both behaved as if they believed they were in the right as well - only with Kralkatorrik did we see any awareness that what they were doing was wrong, and that was a fairly clear-cut case of split personality. Just because Jormag genuinely believes they're acting for the good of Tyria doesn't mean that they're any better than the others.

    I think the Commander isn't entirely closed to the possibility, but there's a lot of reason to be suspicious. Jormag might claim altruistic motives, but most their actions thus far have been consistent with megalomaniac power-gathering while making lip service towards higher ideals to cause those who might be able to take them down to hesitate. Of course, their actions are also consistent with someone who genuinely wants to hold to those ideals but needs to achieve a position of strength and isn't afraid to do some dodgy things in order to make sure the survive to achieve their goals.

    Anyway, to say that the Elder Dragons have harmed with intent is just speaking from bias. The Icebrood Saga is all about playing with the concepts of bigotry and prejudice. That's really obvious. Jora killed Svanir not because he aggressed in any way but "because he looked funny." The kodan have started murdering their own if anyone starts sounding even slightly appreciative of Jormag. There's xenophobic paranoia written all over this. It's something I've had a lot of experience with as autism isn't exactly well understood by neurotypicals. I mean, I've had such a hard life that I have various forms of bodily dysphoria and dysmorphia just because of how terrible humanity can be. I don't really identify with humans much.

    This... isn't really accurate. The minions of Jormag have been doing some real damage. Svanir was attacking norn settlements before anyone but Jora knew him as anything but "the Nornbear". The Icebrood Saga started out with half of a fortress wiping out they other half because they listened to whispers. Kodan who have Fallen to Jormag become just as hostile to everyone else as any other regular dragon minion, and Jormag has taken to corrupting kodan burial grounds and enslaving the dead as well. At this stage, we're not looking at an an irrational fear of someone who looks different, or of someone who is better than most at retaining information while being poor at picking up on social cues. We're looking at a very rational fear where creatures that look like servants of Jormag have a clear track record of attacking anyone who isn't a minion of Jormag and not being able to be negotiated with.

    Now, it's possible that there's some practical reason why Jormag feels they have to have their minions operate this way, and if they're opening a line of negotiations, it's worth finding out what they say... but that doesn't necessarily mean they're trustworthy. Jormag's modus operandi is making you want what it wants. And from what we've seen, what most minions seem to want is to destroy or convert any who aren't already minions. The commander of a force is not necessarily responsible for everything that force does, but when the majority of a force acts in a particular way, one has to assume that the commander is at least permissive, if not actively approving, of that behaviour.

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm genuinely starting to worry Hypnowulf is losing his/her/their grip on reality.

  • @Loesh.4697 said:
    I'm genuinely starting to worry Hypnowulf is losing his/her/their grip on reality.

    I'm actually starting to think that Hypnowulf is a Poe.

    Hate Is Fuel.

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