Need serious help against reapers

[Tycura.1982]

When the necro isn't a big scythe guy you gotta beat him up. When he is you gotta skedaddle.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

Sounds to me like it has nothing to do with reaper itself and more to do with PvP runes and the fact that necros never ran their mobility skills before because they incorrectly used to think they weren't worth taking. Mobility creep is a real problem game-wide.

The only real mobility advantage the reaper brings is RS2 just in terms of disengage, which is admittedly strong, but that's a far cry from the class being nearly as mobile as the rest.

The whole permanent quickness and glass cannon damage at the expense of the SR trait line and life force bruiser build path the class used to have makes the spec a lot more binary than it used to be and takes a lot less skill to just destroy weaker players while making it more difficult to beat more skilled ones.

If you decap against the reaper or immediately reset when it enters shroud, it'll have to deshroud or leave point because the RShroud degen rate is 4x that of core necro.Dodge GS3, strafe from GS5 (only good reapers will combo this skill to reliably have it land), don't attack it during Spectral Armor, and it usually dies without much trouble when you can deny its LF gen.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

Sounds to me like it has nothing to do with reaper itself and more to do with PvP runes and the fact that necros never ran their mobility skills before because they incorrectly used to think they weren't worth taking. Mobility creep is a real problem game-wide.

The only real mobility advantage the reaper brings is RS2 just in terms of disengage, which is admittedly strong, but that's a far cry from the class being nearly as mobile as the rest.

The whole permanent quickness and glass cannon damage at the expense of the SR trait line and life force bruiser build path the class used to have makes the spec a lot more binary than it used to be and takes a lot less skill to just destroy weaker players while making it more difficult to beat more skilled ones.

If you decap against the reaper or immediately reset when it enters shroud, it'll have to deshroud or leave point because the RShroud degen rate is 4x that of core necro.Dodge GS3, strafe from GS5 (only good reapers will combo this skill to reliably have it land), don't attack it during Spectral Armor, and it usually dies without much trouble when you can deny its LF gen.

And what do you do in Halls of the Mists which is only as wide as the Reapers Scythe? Dealing with Reaper in normal maps is not hard because you can range and kite easily. The 2v2 arenas are what I'm talking about.

[KrHome.1920]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

Sounds to me like it has nothing to do with reaper itself and more to do with PvP runes and the fact that necros never ran their mobility skills before because they incorrectly used to think they weren't worth taking. Mobility creep is a real problem game-wide.

The only real mobility advantage the reaper brings is RS2 just in terms of disengage, which is admittedly strong, but that's a far cry from the class being nearly as mobile as the rest.

The whole permanent quickness and glass cannon damage at the expense of the SR trait line and life force bruiser build path the class used to have makes the spec a lot more binary than it used to be and takes a lot less skill to just destroy weaker players while making it more difficult to beat more skilled ones.

If you decap against the reaper or immediately reset when it enters shroud, it'll have to deshroud or leave point because the RShroud degen rate is 4x that of core necro.Dodge GS3, strafe from GS5 (only good reapers will combo this skill to reliably have it land), don't attack it during Spectral Armor, and it usually dies without much trouble when you can deny its LF gen.

And what do you do in Halls of the Mists which is only as wide as the Reapers Scythe? Dealing with Reaper in normal maps is not hard because you can range and kite easily. The 2v2 arenas are what I'm talking about.So they should nerf a spec because one map sucks? How about reworking the map?

Can we balance ranger and deadeye for open field and high ground maps then please? Because this is where reaper suffers the most.

[Aktium.9506]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The 2v2 arenas are what I'm talking about.Here's where I gotta point out that 2v2 and 3v3 balance is largely irrelevant and shouldn't get any developer attention unless something blatantly breaks the mode completely. Even then it must not be anything that can have repercussions in 5v5. It's just for funsies to mess around between seasons and ATs.

The answer to your question though is to use the stairs and to jump between the two platforms up top. I specifically dislike playing Reaper on that map because its so easy to get kited on it.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

Sounds to me like it has nothing to do with reaper itself and more to do with PvP runes and the fact that necros never ran their mobility skills before because they incorrectly used to think they weren't worth taking. Mobility creep is a real problem game-wide.

The only real mobility advantage the reaper brings is RS2 just in terms of disengage, which is admittedly strong, but that's a far cry from the class being nearly as mobile as the rest.

The whole permanent quickness and glass cannon damage at the expense of the SR trait line and life force bruiser build path the class used to have makes the spec a lot more binary than it used to be and takes a lot less skill to just destroy weaker players while making it more difficult to beat more skilled ones.

If you decap against the reaper or immediately reset when it enters shroud, it'll have to deshroud or leave point because the RShroud degen rate is 4x that of core necro.Dodge GS3, strafe from GS5 (only good reapers will combo this skill to reliably have it land), don't attack it during Spectral Armor, and it usually dies without much trouble when you can deny its LF gen.

And what do you do in Halls of the Mists which is only as wide as the Reapers Scythe? Dealing with Reaper in normal maps is not hard because you can range and kite easily. The 2v2 arenas are what I'm talking about.

Then it's wholly a map problem.If they made the 2v2 arena as large and open as the guild hall arena, you'd only ever see soulbeasts winning fights and people would be just as justified in demanding them being nerfed, and arguably moreso since they're harder to outplay without a lot of LoS objects than reaper is, since you can forward dodge RS2 and it won't track, allowing you to corner the reaper into a small subsection of the area and disengage. Either way, I'm not seeing justification here that's really at all pertinent to the reaper, and more about the environment of sPvP and your teams.

It's a combination of the map is designed to favor reaper innately, you probably not playing against it properly (which exacerbates any advantages the class has), and that your teammate can also fail to play against it properly, allowing it to leverage its gains because it's strong when AoE'ing and that there's another teammate.

So yeah, /thread? The problem isn't anything about necro or reaper in particular, considering it's not at all the only class which leverages the confined space as well as it does.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

Sounds to me like it has nothing to do with reaper itself and more to do with PvP runes and the fact that necros never ran their mobility skills before because they incorrectly used to think they weren't worth taking. Mobility creep is a real problem game-wide.

The only real mobility advantage the reaper brings is RS2 just in terms of disengage, which is admittedly strong, but that's a far cry from the class being nearly as mobile as the rest.

The whole permanent quickness and glass cannon damage at the expense of the SR trait line and life force bruiser build path the class used to have makes the spec a lot more binary than it used to be and takes a lot less skill to just destroy weaker players while making it more difficult to beat more skilled ones.

If you decap against the reaper or immediately reset when it enters shroud, it'll have to deshroud or leave point because the RShroud degen rate is 4x that of core necro.Dodge GS3, strafe from GS5 (only good reapers will combo this skill to reliably have it land), don't attack it during Spectral Armor, and it usually dies without much trouble when you can deny its LF gen.

And what do you do in Halls of the Mists which is only as wide as the Reapers Scythe? Dealing with Reaper in normal maps is not hard because you can range and kite easily. The 2v2 arenas are what I'm talking about.So they should nerf a spec because one map sucks? How about reworking the map?

Can we balance ranger and deadeye for open field and high ground maps then please? Because this is where reaper suffers the most.

Please point out where I asked for anything to be nerfed. Hint: I didn't. I merely stated that Reaper is a problem for people in small arenas, it's strong because a small area suits it.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Aktium.9506 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The 2v2 arenas are what I'm talking about.Here's where I gotta point out that 2v2 and 3v3 balance is largely irrelevant and shouldn't get any developer attention unless something blatantly breaks the mode completely. Even then it must not be anything that can have repercussions in 5v5. It's just for funsies to mess around between seasons and ATs.

The answer to your question though is to use the stairs and to jump between the two platforms up top. I specifically dislike playing Reaper on that map because its so easy to get kited on it.

I'm not asking for anything to be balanced or changed or nerfed. Like I already stated, Reaper is not hard to deal with when you can kite it, but in a small area, ala a couple of the 2v2 maps, it can be hard(er).

And the question was rhetorical. It's just not much fun doing a jumping puzzle every 20s.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

Sounds to me like it has nothing to do with reaper itself and more to do with PvP runes and the fact that necros never ran their mobility skills before because they incorrectly used to think they weren't worth taking. Mobility creep is a real problem game-wide.

The only real mobility advantage the reaper brings is RS2 just in terms of disengage, which is admittedly strong, but that's a far cry from the class being nearly as mobile as the rest.

The whole permanent quickness and glass cannon damage at the expense of the SR trait line and life force bruiser build path the class used to have makes the spec a lot more binary than it used to be and takes a lot less skill to just destroy weaker players while making it more difficult to beat more skilled ones.

If you decap against the reaper or immediately reset when it enters shroud, it'll have to deshroud or leave point because the RShroud degen rate is 4x that of core necro.Dodge GS3, strafe from GS5 (only good reapers will combo this skill to reliably have it land), don't attack it during Spectral Armor, and it usually dies without much trouble when you can deny its LF gen.

And what do you do in Halls of the Mists which is only as wide as the Reapers Scythe? Dealing with Reaper in normal maps is not hard because you can range and kite easily. The 2v2 arenas are what I'm talking about.

Then it's wholly a map problem.If they made the 2v2 arena as large and open as the guild hall arena, you'd only ever see soulbeasts winning fights and people would be just as justified in demanding them being nerfed, and arguably moreso since they're harder to outplay without a lot of LoS objects than reaper is, since you can forward dodge RS2 and it won't track, allowing you to corner the reaper into a small subsection of the area and disengage. Either way, I'm not seeing justification here that's really at all pertinent to the reaper, and more about the environment of sPvP and your teams.

It's a combination of the map is designed to favor reaper innately, you probably not playing against it properly (which exacerbates any advantages the class has), and that your teammate can also fail to play against it properly, allowing it to leverage its gains because it's strong when AoE'ing and that there's another teammate.

So yeah, /thread? The problem isn't anything about necro or reaper in particular, considering it's not at all the only class which leverages the confined space as well as it does.

Ahhh, yeah. This is exactly my point, which everyone seems to be missing, likely my own fault.

Reaper is only FoTM because of the small 2v2 maps. Nothing needs to be changed. Nothing needs to be nerfed. It's just that the mode favors it due to smaller areas. It's not impossible to beat, even on the smallest of maps, it just isn't fun.

Reaper is probably one of the easiest classes to put down because I play inherently mobile and kiting oriented builds. I have been making points on the OPs side.

I have just been stating the obvious, not making a complaint.

[Aktium.9506]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:It's just not much fun doing a jumping puzzle every 20s.Man you'd have absolutely hated playing Necro prior to the Feb patch.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

Sounds to me like it has nothing to do with reaper itself and more to do with PvP runes and the fact that necros never ran their mobility skills before because they incorrectly used to think they weren't worth taking. Mobility creep is a real problem game-wide.

The only real mobility advantage the reaper brings is RS2 just in terms of disengage, which is admittedly strong, but that's a far cry from the class being nearly as mobile as the rest.

The whole permanent quickness and glass cannon damage at the expense of the SR trait line and life force bruiser build path the class used to have makes the spec a lot more binary than it used to be and takes a lot less skill to just destroy weaker players while making it more difficult to beat more skilled ones.

If you decap against the reaper or immediately reset when it enters shroud, it'll have to deshroud or leave point because the RShroud degen rate is 4x that of core necro.Dodge GS3, strafe from GS5 (only good reapers will combo this skill to reliably have it land), don't attack it during Spectral Armor, and it usually dies without much trouble when you can deny its LF gen.

And what do you do in Halls of the Mists which is only as wide as the Reapers Scythe? Dealing with Reaper in normal maps is not hard because you can range and kite easily. The 2v2 arenas are what I'm talking about.

Then it's wholly a map problem.If they made the 2v2 arena as large and open as the guild hall arena, you'd only ever see soulbeasts winning fights and people would be just as justified in demanding them being nerfed, and arguably moreso since they're harder to outplay without a lot of LoS objects than reaper is, since you can forward dodge RS2 and it won't track, allowing you to corner the reaper into a small subsection of the area and disengage. Either way, I'm not seeing justification here that's really at all pertinent to the reaper, and more about the environment of sPvP and your teams.

It's a combination of the map is designed to favor reaper innately, you probably not playing against it properly (which exacerbates any advantages the class has), and that your teammate can also fail to play against it properly, allowing it to leverage its gains because it's strong when AoE'ing and that there's another teammate.

So yeah, /thread? The problem isn't anything about necro or reaper in particular, considering it's not at all the only class which leverages the confined space as well as it does.

Ahhh, yeah. This is exactly my point, which everyone seems to be missing, likely my own fault.

Reaper is only FoTM because of the small 2v2 maps. Nothing needs to be changed. Nothing needs to be nerfed. It's just that the mode favors it due to smaller areas. It's not impossible to beat, even on the smallest of maps, it just isn't fun.

Reaper is probably one of the easiest classes to put down because I play inherently mobile and kiting oriented builds. I have been making points on the OPs side.

I have just been stating the obvious, not making a complaint.

I mistook you for the OP due to the comment you originally made about "ever-increasing mobility" contrasting the slow design you quoted as if it's failing that design goal since the mobility claim is not really true (the reaper was arguably more mobile in the past metas compared to other classes), so my bad. Doesn't sound like you have an issue playing against it personally, and based on the last sentence of your first post, you already knew what was going on.