HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.

[battledrone.8315]

@Croc.1978 said:

@"Atomos.7593" said:Maybe they could mention the increase in difficulty in HoT expansion content and add some tips and strategies in the new player guide, so players are aware before entering. Might also be useful to mention that mounts can be unlocked account wide by doing the PoF expansion content first.

What they should have done IMO:

Create kind of a Pact "boot camp" for jungle warfare in Silverwastes that players have to pass before they are allowed to enter VB (possibly as part of the personal story):

"Commander, we have managed to capture some Mordrem and wildlife from the Maguuma jungle. We use them to familiarize our troops with the threads that await us there." Players would then get pitched into 1-on-1 fights against some typical Maguuma opponents, for instance:

• fight a Mordrem sniper without getting hit by his charged shot
• fight a rolling devil by breaking its defiance bar
• fight a smokescale where they have to move out of the smoke screen
• fight a Mordrem cavalier without getting knocked down, etc ...

But of course it's much too late for that now. I guess the best one can do now to accustom oneself to the difficulty increase is something like:-> play a bit in Orr-> play at least a couple of days in SW (non-RIBA), gives you a bit of foretaste of what to expect in HoT-> VB

if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Croc.1978 said:

@"Atomos.7593" said:Maybe they could mention the increase in difficulty in HoT expansion content and add some tips and strategies in the new player guide, so players are aware before entering. Might also be useful to mention that mounts can be unlocked account wide by doing the PoF expansion content first.

What they should have done IMO:

Create kind of a Pact "boot camp" for jungle warfare in Silverwastes that players have to pass before they are allowed to enter VB (possibly as part of the personal story):

"Commander, we have managed to capture some Mordrem and wildlife from the Maguuma jungle. We use them to familiarize our troops with the threads that await us there." Players would then get pitched into 1-on-1 fights against some typical Maguuma opponents, for instance:

• fight a Mordrem sniper without getting hit by his charged shot
• fight a rolling devil by breaking its defiance bar
• fight a smokescale where they have to move out of the smoke screen
• fight a Mordrem cavalier without getting knocked down, etc ...

But of course it's much too late for that now. I guess the best one can do now to accustom oneself to the difficulty increase is something like:-> play a bit in Orr-> play at least a couple of days in SW (non-RIBA), gives you a bit of foretaste of what to expect in HoT-> VB

if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

So issue isnt that its hard its just that you want everything to be easy and dont want to adapt. Like cc is not hard. Dodging is not hard its just in core you would rarely be put in a situation where you needed to dodge. Most casual players dont have your hardlock you want things to fit your narrative atm so you refuse to really listen on advice ppl give you. Hot is no where near dark souls in difficulty its obvius you never played it.

[battledrone.8315]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

lets see , wow did exceptionally well, as long as they stuck to the formula. when they CHANGED it, the game went south.same with CoX, villain side was just more of the same. STOs "expansions" added new features and new races, while increasing difficulty slightly.dont know about FF, since i never made i past lvl 20. SWTOR expansions did have higher difficulty, but they also have increased level cap and other newfeatures to help the casuals.

Didnt lose wow so many players because they removed basically all build variety and tried to make it extremely casual friendly?Every expansion simplified things.Gw2 lost almost all players 2months into the game. Release was riddled with bugs. Every 2nd event was stuck and there was basically no endgame.

mists of pandaria was when they removed the talent tree and gave us PET BATTLES insteadthe decline actually started with cataclysm, mostly because they never FINISHED it, still so many bugs in it todayin todays format, its hardly a game anymore, its so slow and clunky, that i am surprised, that they still have ANY players left

[battledrone.8315]

@Asum.4960 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:yep, i have uninstalled again and went back to dcuo. pof was annoying too, but at least we got mounts. wont finish that either, it simply isnt worth the time and effort

you do realize, that they have NERFED core? and i certainly wont grind metas, so i can pay farmers for the good runes .if it isnt doable, with the gear i have, then i simply wont do it. THEY promised a game without gear grind

Sounds to me like you just don't really enjoy the game and refuse to engage with it to a point where you neither want to learn how to play it well, nor work for any gear - which is far from a grind in GW2, and have already moved on, which while fine, I'm not sure why you are still here complaining about it.

sure mr internet stranger , ill just let you decide what i like. and doing content, that i have done before, to get more gold IS grinding, no matter how you try andtwist it.

I'm not deciding what you like or dislike nor am I trying to twist anything, I'm just going off by what you are saying. Fact is doing content more than once and content replayability to obtain things is a huge part of MMO's longevity. If you don't enjoy that at all and "having to" do something even just twice is already grind to you, then you are obviously not going to enjoy the vast majority of MMO's longterm, at least not any I have ever played.

If GW2, which essentially showers it's players in gear and such compared to most other MMO's is still too grindy for you, the MMORPG genre (along with some others like ARPG's) might simply not be for you.

i can grind if they give me something USEFUL for it. a 10 min daily mission in dcuo will give a lootbox with 2 choices of gear, with good chance of an actual UPGRADEi have done metas in hot, opening or vendoring a ton of trash loot is NOT the same, it is simply annoying. and you need a ton of bagspace for it too

And a 10 minute daily in GW2 will give you 2g, for which you can buy exotic gear off the TP without any chance involved.

Nobody is saying you have to grind Metas specifically, I personally don't enjoy those either.

YOU can do it in 10 mins, i prolly cant do it at all. and i would have to it for months, since the most expensive parts are the runes and sigils.so we are talking about months of work, to play more content, that i dont like anyway.suddenly those dirty dishes look awfully tempting...yea, ill just do chores instead. the loot is better, and the fun factor is the same.

Again, it just seems like you are simply not really enjoying the game if it's just a chore for you/you would rather do actual chores. Not sure why you are saying I'm twisting anything with that statement.Once you obsess over rewards and what you

have to

do for how long to get x, it's a pretty clear sign that you are not enjoying a game for it's moment to moment gameplay and it's own sake, which is a pretty good indicator to take a break or move on.

But beyond that, not having the perfect Runes and Sigils is really not what's going to keep you from being able to complete OW (or any other) content and are overall fairly low impact beyond min maxing. So I'm not sure why their acquisition is such a sticking point.If you enjoy the game and have a good time and just keep playing it because it's fun, you will eventually be able to acquire these things.If you don't enjoy the game for it's own sake to even get there, getting certain Runes and Sigils won't fix that either anyway.

really? better gear= progression, its one the most important RPG mechanisms.putting it on the free market only ensured one thing: that goldfarmers would have something IMPORTANT to make money on

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:yep, i have uninstalled again and went back to dcuo. pof was annoying too, but at least we got mounts. wont finish that either, it simply isnt worth the time and effort

you do realize, that they have NERFED core? and i certainly wont grind metas, so i can pay farmers for the good runes .if it isnt doable, with the gear i have, then i simply wont do it. THEY promised a game without gear grind

Sounds to me like you just don't really enjoy the game and refuse to engage with it to a point where you neither want to learn how to play it well, nor work for any gear - which is far from a grind in GW2, and have already moved on, which while fine, I'm not sure why you are still here complaining about it.

sure mr internet stranger , ill just let you decide what i like. and doing content, that i have done before, to get more gold IS grinding, no matter how you try andtwist it.

I'm not deciding what you like or dislike nor am I trying to twist anything, I'm just going off by what you are saying. Fact is doing content more than once and content replayability to obtain things is a huge part of MMO's longevity. If you don't enjoy that at all and "having to" do something even just twice is already grind to you, then you are obviously not going to enjoy the vast majority of MMO's longterm, at least not any I have ever played.

If GW2, which essentially showers it's players in gear and such compared to most other MMO's is still too grindy for you, the MMORPG genre (along with some others like ARPG's) might simply not be for you.

i can grind if they give me something USEFUL for it. a 10 min daily mission in dcuo will give a lootbox with 2 choices of gear, with good chance of an actual UPGRADEi have done metas in hot, opening or vendoring a ton of trash loot is NOT the same, it is simply annoying. and you need a ton of bagspace for it too

And a 10 minute daily in GW2 will give you 2g, for which you can buy exotic gear off the TP without any chance involved.

Nobody is saying you have to grind Metas specifically, I personally don't enjoy those either.

YOU can do it in 10 mins, i prolly cant do it at all. and i would have to it for months, since the most expensive parts are the runes and sigils.so we are talking about months of work, to play more content, that i dont like anyway.suddenly those dirty dishes look awfully tempting...yea, ill just do chores instead. the loot is better, and the fun factor is the same.

Again, it just seems like you are simply not really enjoying the game if it's just a chore for you/you would rather do actual chores. Not sure why you are saying I'm twisting anything with that statement.Once you obsess over rewards and what you

have to

do for how long to get x, it's a pretty clear sign that you are not enjoying a game for it's moment to moment gameplay and it's own sake, which is a pretty good indicator to take a break or move on.

But beyond that, not having the perfect Runes and Sigils is really not what's going to keep you from being able to complete OW (or any other) content and are overall fairly low impact beyond min maxing. So I'm not sure why their acquisition is such a sticking point.If you enjoy the game and have a good time and just keep playing it because it's fun, you will eventually be able to acquire these things.If you don't enjoy the game for it's own sake to even get there, getting certain Runes and Sigils won't fix that either anyway.

really? better gear= progression, its one the most important RPG mechanisms.putting it on the free market only ensured one thing: that goldfarmers would have something IMPORTANT to make money on

So you want a easy game with no gear progression just skins no difficulty or engaging goal ?. Gear is hardly farm able crafted gear cost more than its sold for to make . There is gears wich already has stats and runes on them. But you probly ignore reading this for you dont want advice( alot of ppl here gave you advice you just shout them down for they dont agree with you, you complain its hard but its obvius you barly try and second anything is slightly challenging you get angry just try to listen you dont need meta for hot or open world you just need to understand how your class works and interact with your gear the core game was so low engaging it only required you to auto attack so alot of ppl got bored as it was harder to actually get downed than killing enemies. Anet had to up difficulty for game was declining due to no end game goals. But as you dont want a game wich requires some slight effort.)

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Well my look on this is is this even possible ?In theory yes if you farm ectos for a year maybe I have 1,2k of them I think I made every 4-6 weeks 1 k if I farm on a daily basis the new map then properly faster.But there is a big problem at least for now . The numbers of shards in the trading post are only enough for 40 people building one xD I'm actually more surprised finding so many in it because1.) The amount is flimsy so selling it doesn't bring much2.) The new map meta takes some time because of this you usually find more hardcore players on it which in return should be all after the infusion.

In theory the amount will increase over time and the demand will shrink.

Direct buying it is for most players not an option.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:Well my look on this is is this even possible ?In theory yes if you farm ectos for a year maybe I have 1,2k of them I think I made every 4-6 weeks 1 k if I farm on a daily basis the new map then properly faster.But there is a big problem at least for now . The numbers of shards in the trading post are only enough for 40 people building one xD I'm actually more surprised finding so many in it because1.) The amount is flimsy so selling it doesn't bring much2.) The new map meta takes some time because of this you usually find more hardcore players on it which in return should be all after the infusion.

In theory the amount will increase over time and the demand will shrink.

Direct buying it is for most players not an option.

Eh i think this wrong thread

[Raknar.4735]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

lets see , wow did exceptionally well, as long as they stuck to the formula. when they CHANGED it, the game went south.same with CoX, villain side was just more of the same. STOs "expansions" added new features and new races, while increasing difficulty slightly.dont know about FF, since i never made i past lvl 20. SWTOR expansions did have higher difficulty, but they also have increased level cap and other newfeatures to help the casuals.

Didnt lose wow so many players because they removed basically all build variety and tried to make it extremely casual friendly?Every expansion simplified things.Gw2 lost almost all players 2months into the game. Release was riddled with bugs. Every 2nd event was stuck and there was basically no endgame.

It can't get more casual than WoW Vanilla/Classic.You are able to kill Onyxia with a completely naked Raidgroup using a hunter pet as tank.

WoW actually peaked with WotLK. There wasn't really build variety, since meta builds didn't really allow for it.

Required massive attunement processes to even enter that. 40man raids meant organizing those many people required a set schedule and everything, Dungeons could take 3h+ to complete. Wouldnt call that casual friendly. Raids were easy compared to todays standards but guide websites werent that common back then and time investment required was still huge.

Most of those factors are not created by the game, but by the players.The vanilla raids are so easy that you don't even need the organization of 40man groups.Anything can take 3h+ to complete if players are bad, take a look at Arah during release, when players didn't skip and didn't get the game mechanics. I wouldn't call that casual friendly, either.

I'd call the Classic raids/dungeons way more casual friendly than anything that has been released in the last 10 years in terms of MMORPGs ¯\

(ツ)

/¯End game raiding (referring to mythic) in WoW nowadays is the least casual friendly it has ever been.

How is massive attunement process created by the players and not by the game? Or requireing 40people. Casual and easy have nothing in common. Something can be hard and casual friendly. Casual != bad player. This gets mixed up a lot. Just because someone cant spend 2h+ uninterrupted doesnt mean such a player is unable to learn or use a braindead open world build. There is however a crowd that identifies themselves as casuals but in reality just hate learning or thinking as a whole. There are people playing with whatever dropped for their characters while they have 1k+ h spend ingame. Thats just not a matter of casual or hardcore, they are just bad. Other mmos solved this issue with just not having bad drops. System in gw2 allows for the most useless combinations. Could potentially be solved with a gearcheck so you could at least try to give tips but there are still some players against it for some reason.

Almost nobody saw the last raid tier in classic. Thats why it was the first raid of wotlk. Wasted assets if below 1% even entered it. Way fewer actually killed bosses in there. Was crazy expensive to open it or it required a massive reputation grind. The dungeon i have in mind is just super long. 16bosses... people spend 4h+ in there without really wiping. it wasnt even a maxlevel dungeon. Mythic+ raiding is not the same as classic raiding. classic had just one difficulty and getting 40 players together was hard when a mistake made by a single person could wipe the entire raid.

I never said casual players are bad, just that there were a lot of bad players during vanilla due to lack of knowledge on how to play.You could see keyboard turners everywhere, and many used useless equipment, since they didn‘t know better.

You never actually required 40 people to raid, that was just the maximum Groupsize that could enter Raids back then. With good players, no matter if „casuals“ or „hardcores“ or „regulars“ you could easily clear raids. I mean, even Onyxia was cleared by a full naked raidgroup with a pet tank.

Almost nobody saw Naxx in vanilla because BC was releasing close to Naxx release, so most didn‘t bother with it, since their stats would be invalidated.Yeah, Mythic raiding isn‘t the same as classic, it is less casual, since WoW actually became less casual in endgame raiding, not more casual. That‘s my point. You can‘t get more casual than classic/vanilla.

Attunements were only a problem due to lack of knowledge, as you can see nowadays during classic.

I still stand by the point that classic is way more casual friendly than anything that has released in the last 10 years. I bet Naxx will also just be PuG‘d to death.

[kharmin.7683]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Croc.1978 said:

@"Atomos.7593" said:Maybe they could mention the increase in difficulty in HoT expansion content and add some tips and strategies in the new player guide, so players are aware before entering. Might also be useful to mention that mounts can be unlocked account wide by doing the PoF expansion content first.

What they should have done IMO:

Create kind of a Pact "boot camp" for jungle warfare in Silverwastes that players have to pass before they are allowed to enter VB (possibly as part of the personal story):

"Commander, we have managed to capture some Mordrem and wildlife from the Maguuma jungle. We use them to familiarize our troops with the threads that await us there." Players would then get pitched into 1-on-1 fights against some typical Maguuma opponents, for instance:

• fight a Mordrem sniper without getting hit by his charged shot
• fight a rolling devil by breaking its defiance bar
• fight a smokescale where they have to move out of the smoke screen
• fight a Mordrem cavalier without getting knocked down, etc ...

But of course it's much too late for that now. I guess the best one can do now to accustom oneself to the difficulty increase is something like:-> play a bit in Orr-> play at least a couple of days in SW (non-RIBA), gives you a bit of foretaste of what to expect in HoT-> VB

if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

Yeah, this type of gating would not have been a good idea IMO.

I think that most of the complaints have come from new players boosting to 80 and then getting wiped in HoT because they don't know anything about the game's mechanics or their character's skills/abilities/gear/build. Does the core game properly prepare players for HoT? Arguably no, but gating access to an expansion in the manner suggested isn't the answer. At least, I don't believe so.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:lets see , wow did exceptionally well, as long as they stuck to the formula. when they CHANGED it, the game went south.same with CoX, villain side was just more of the same. STOs "expansions" added new features and new races, while increasing difficulty slightly.dont know about FF, since i never made i past lvl 20. SWTOR expansions did have higher difficulty, but they also have increased level cap and other newfeatures to help the casuals.As someone who has played a fair few MMOs and read your posts on and off on this forum for a while now....I do not believe that you are at all representative of the average casual gamer.Most of the ones I have played with or talked to struggle with this game a fair bit less than you claim to.

The fact that you on one hand talk about how grindy gearing in GW2 is, while consistently talking about playing DCUO, (a simple game with a very punishing end game gear grind that gates your progress behind gear score with endless dailies and rng drops) is.....odd.

dcuo is a pretty standard mmo, and they dont claim to be anything elseGW2 was SOLD with the PROMISE of a no grind policy. if you dont see the problem there...furthermore, dcuo dont let the players control the flow of important items, like runes and weapon enhancementsif i want to progress, i literally have to pay a GOLD FARMER. not gonna happen

You misinterpreted what they meant by no grind.

@battledrone.8315 said:if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

Preparing players for a future encounter is not the same thing as saying how much something sucks.

[Croc.1978]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Croc.1978 said:

@"Atomos.7593" said:Maybe they could mention the increase in difficulty in HoT expansion content and add some tips and strategies in the new player guide, so players are aware before entering. Might also be useful to mention that mounts can be unlocked account wide by doing the PoF expansion content first.

What they should have done IMO:

Create kind of a Pact "boot camp" for jungle warfare in Silverwastes that players have to pass before they are allowed to enter VB (possibly as part of the personal story):

"Commander, we have managed to capture some Mordrem and wildlife from the Maguuma jungle. We use them to familiarize our troops with the threads that await us there." Players would then get pitched into 1-on-1 fights against some typical Maguuma opponents, for instance:

• fight a Mordrem sniper without getting hit by his charged shot
• fight a rolling devil by breaking its defiance bar
• fight a smokescale where they have to move out of the smoke screen
• fight a Mordrem cavalier without getting knocked down, etc ...

But of course it's much too late for that now. I guess the best one can do now to accustom oneself to the difficulty increase is something like:-> play a bit in Orr-> play at least a couple of days in SW (non-RIBA), gives you a bit of foretaste of what to expect in HoT-> VB

if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

Yeah, this type of gating would not have been a good idea IMO.

I think that most of the complaints have come from new players boosting to 80 and then getting wiped in HoT because they don't know anything about the game's mechanics or their character's skills/abilities/gear/build. Does the core game properly prepare players for HoT? Arguably no, but gating access to an expansion in the manner suggested isn't the answer. At least, I don't believe so.

Well, it is gated already. You have to do the story mission "Rally to Maguuma" once to get access to Verdant Brink. Basically I would just switch the content of that mission to what I suggested. Only one time per account ofc, like it is now. And if people decide to circumvent it via Teleport to Friend, guild halls and whatnot - sure, it's their choice.

[kharmin.7683]

@Croc.1978 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Croc.1978 said:

@"Atomos.7593" said:Maybe they could mention the increase in difficulty in HoT expansion content and add some tips and strategies in the new player guide, so players are aware before entering. Might also be useful to mention that mounts can be unlocked account wide by doing the PoF expansion content first.

What they should have done IMO:

Create kind of a Pact "boot camp" for jungle warfare in Silverwastes that players have to pass before they are allowed to enter VB (possibly as part of the personal story):

"Commander, we have managed to capture some Mordrem and wildlife from the Maguuma jungle. We use them to familiarize our troops with the threads that await us there." Players would then get pitched into 1-on-1 fights against some typical Maguuma opponents, for instance:

• fight a Mordrem sniper without getting hit by his charged shot
• fight a rolling devil by breaking its defiance bar
• fight a smokescale where they have to move out of the smoke screen
• fight a Mordrem cavalier without getting knocked down, etc ...

But of course it's much too late for that now. I guess the best one can do now to accustom oneself to the difficulty increase is something like:-> play a bit in Orr-> play at least a couple of days in SW (non-RIBA), gives you a bit of foretaste of what to expect in HoT-> VB

if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

Yeah, this type of gating would not have been a good idea IMO.

I think that most of the complaints have come from new players boosting to 80 and then getting wiped in HoT because they don't know anything about the game's mechanics or their character's skills/abilities/gear/build. Does the core game properly prepare players for HoT? Arguably no, but gating access to an expansion in the manner suggested isn't the answer. At least, I don't believe so.

Well, it

is

gated already. You have to do the story mission "Rally to Maguuma" once to get access to Verdant Brink. Basically I would just switch the content of that mission to what I suggested. Only one time per account ofc, like it is now. And if people decide to circumvent it via Teleport to Friend, guild halls and whatnot - sure, it's their choice.

Didn't say that it wasn't gated; only that the type of gating suggested would not have been a good idea. IMO

[Atomos.7593]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Croc.1978 said:

@"Atomos.7593" said:Maybe they could mention the increase in difficulty in HoT expansion content and add some tips and strategies in the new player guide, so players are aware before entering. Might also be useful to mention that mounts can be unlocked account wide by doing the PoF expansion content first.

What they should have done IMO:

Create kind of a Pact "boot camp" for jungle warfare in Silverwastes that players have to pass before they are allowed to enter VB (possibly as part of the personal story):

"Commander, we have managed to capture some Mordrem and wildlife from the Maguuma jungle. We use them to familiarize our troops with the threads that await us there." Players would then get pitched into 1-on-1 fights against some typical Maguuma opponents, for instance:

• fight a Mordrem sniper without getting hit by his charged shot
• fight a rolling devil by breaking its defiance bar
• fight a smokescale where they have to move out of the smoke screen
• fight a Mordrem cavalier without getting knocked down, etc ...

But of course it's much too late for that now. I guess the best one can do now to accustom oneself to the difficulty increase is something like:-> play a bit in Orr-> play at least a couple of days in SW (non-RIBA), gives you a bit of foretaste of what to expect in HoT-> VB

if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

Like cc is not hard. Dodging is not hard its just in core you would rarely be put in a situation where you needed to dodge.

This is true. Dodging is very important in HoT maps against enemies and makes a huge difference. For example, against the champion mushroom king, in my opinion the important things that I've seen are to kite as much as possible to avoid getting hit by the charge and saving your endurance to dodge back quickly when it pulls you in close, as it does a flip soon after the pull that does large AoE damage.

[Ashen.2907]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"LucianDK.8615" said:Theres nothing wrong with HoT. Its pretty easy now, and mounts trivialize the content.

this thread wouldnt exist if everything was "fine".

This is not a particularly valid point. This thread's existence has no bearing on whether or not everything, or even anything, is fine overall.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"battledrone.8315" said:GW2 was SOLD with the PROMISE of a no grind policy. if you dont see the problem there...furthermore, dcuo dont let the players control the flow of important items, like runes and weapon enhancementsif i want to progress, i literally have to pay a GOLD FARMER. not gonna happenIn DCUO, once I reach the level cap, my new measurement of progress becomes my Gear Score. Increasing my Gear score is done via drops and the usual currency grind. If my Gear score is not high enough, I am quite simply barred from accessing further content (other than seasonal events) than what is available until I get better gear to unlock the level tier of content.Once I am there, I have a limited range of content I can participate in until once again my gear score goes up via drops and currencies..... only for this to happen again...and again.

And when a new content drop happens?.... it's a new tier of gear.

Older content does not drop the gear or correct currencies. What's worse is that many of the next tier's missions? Are the exact same as the previous tier's only with more hitpoints and damage on the mobs.

This is a gear grind.

This is something Guild Wars 2 does not have.

Once I have myself in full exotics there is zero content that is out of my reach other than t2-4 fractals. Meanwhile the game is constantly showering me with exotic weapons and armor...second best in slot in some cases. .. sometimes just for logging in.An 8g sigil can be had for an hour of chopping wood and mining rocks in Mt Maelstrom if that's all I find myself able to do. If I don't want to "pay a gold farmer" for it on the TP I can craft any of it myself usually for a 10-20% savings off the tp price.Barring that? The game kicks me down with around 60 gold worth of rewards a month just from logging in.

As someone who professes to have played as many MMOs as you have, I am very surprised you don't understand this.

[battledrone.8315]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Croc.1978 said:

@"Atomos.7593" said:Maybe they could mention the increase in difficulty in HoT expansion content and add some tips and strategies in the new player guide, so players are aware before entering. Might also be useful to mention that mounts can be unlocked account wide by doing the PoF expansion content first.

What they should have done IMO:

Create kind of a Pact "boot camp" for jungle warfare in Silverwastes that players have to pass before they are allowed to enter VB (possibly as part of the personal story):

"Commander, we have managed to capture some Mordrem and wildlife from the Maguuma jungle. We use them to familiarize our troops with the threads that await us there." Players would then get pitched into 1-on-1 fights against some typical Maguuma opponents, for instance:

• fight a Mordrem sniper without getting hit by his charged shot
• fight a rolling devil by breaking its defiance bar
• fight a smokescale where they have to move out of the smoke screen
• fight a Mordrem cavalier without getting knocked down, etc ...

But of course it's much too late for that now. I guess the best one can do now to accustom oneself to the difficulty increase is something like:-> play a bit in Orr-> play at least a couple of days in SW (non-RIBA), gives you a bit of foretaste of what to expect in HoT-> VB

if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

So issue isnt that its hard its just that you want everything to be easy and dont want to adapt. Like cc is not hard. Dodging is not hard its just in core you would rarely be put in a situation where you needed to dodge. Most casual players dont have your hardlock you want things to fit your narrative atm so you refuse to really listen on advice ppl give you. Hot is no where near dark souls in difficulty its obvius you never played it.

like i said, i know enough about dark souls to avoid it, it has everything i DONT want in a game.dodging isnt hard, but it isnt FUN either,it is only content padding, forcing players to stay with the same mob for longer timeconsidering the number of raids i have paid for in wow, i am not even against all hard content, i just dont want to PLAY itthey can make some super hardcore raids, if they make some content for ME tooone size does NOT fit all

[battledrone.8315]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:GW2 was SOLD with the PROMISE of a no grind policy. if you dont see the problem there...furthermore, dcuo dont let the players control the flow of important items, like runes and weapon enhancementsif i want to progress, i literally have to pay a GOLD FARMER. not gonna happenIn DCUO, once I reach the level cap, my new measurement of progress becomes my Gear Score. Increasing my Gear score is done via drops and the usual currency grind. If my Gear score is not high enough, I am quite simply barred from accessing further content (other than seasonal events) than what is available until I get better gear to unlock the level tier of content.Once I am there, I have a limited range of content I can participate in until once again my gear score goes up via drops and currencies..... only for this to happen again...and again.

And when a new content drop happens?.... it's a new tier of gear.

Older content does not drop the gear or correct currencies. What's worse is that many of the next tier's missions? Are the exact same as the previous tier's only with more hitpoints and damage on the mobs.

This is a gear grind.

This is something Guild Wars 2 does not have.

Once I have myself in full exotics there is zero content that is out of my reach other than t2-4 fractals. Meanwhile the game is constantly showering me with exotic weapons and armor...

second best in slot in some cases.

.. sometimes just for logging in.An 8g sigil can be had for an hour of chopping wood and mining rocks in Mt Maelstrom if that's all I find myself able to do. If I don't want to "pay a gold farmer" for it on the TP I can craft any of it myself usually for a 10-20% savings off the tp price.Barring that? The game kicks me down with around 60 gold worth of rewards a month just from logging in.

As someone who professes to have played as many MMOs as you have, I am very surprised you don't understand this.

yep, and when was the last time they made other content than seasonal events? i cant remember any, can you?i call BS on 8 g/hour by chopping wood, and even if its true, my point still stands: i will NOT pay for some goldfarmers "service " to progressSPECIALLY not in a game , that was promoted as "different" in that regardEVE has the same mechanic, and it makes sense there, but in a casual mmo, not so muchi wouldnt be surprised, if they make a vendor, so people can buy them at a fixed (and lower) pricelocking progress behind the AH barons was HUGE mistake

[battledrone.8315]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"LucianDK.8615" said:Theres nothing wrong with HoT. Its pretty easy now, and mounts trivialize the content.

this thread wouldnt exist if everything was "fine".

This is not a particularly valid point. This thread's existence has no bearing on whether or not everything, or even anything, is fine overall.

when things are fine, people just play the game instead. do you know anyone, who will stop something they are enjoying, so they can write some words on the net?this is a hot hate thread, and i was a part of of it. same as always. we should nuke maguma from orbit. a 50 MT hydrogen device at 10000 ft should be adequate.

[mindcircus.1506]

@battledrone.8315 said:yep, and when was the last time they made other content than seasonal events? i cant remember any, can you?i call BS on 8 g/hour by chopping wood, and even if its true, my point still stands: i will NOT pay for some goldfarmers "service " to progress8g an hour is on the lower end of the scale and half what it was three years ago before mounts and a season and a half of LW farms shifted the economy.It is absolutely reasonable and doable.SPECIALLY not in a game , that was promoted as "different" in that regardEVE has the same mechanic, and it makes sense there, but in a casual mmo, not so muchTo compare this game with EVE online is even more asinine than the Dark Souls link that started this thread.What's clear is you do not understand what actually drives the economy in this game, or do and are just clinging to a false argument.@battledrone.8315 You are not representative of casual players in this game.i wouldnt be surprised, if they make a vendor, so people can buy them at a fixed (and lower) pricelocking progress behind the AH barons was HUGE mistakeNo one in this game is making big bank off runes and sigils or armorcrafting. In many cases the components used to craft them are worth less crafted than they are sold separatelyThese items seldom even net the creator more than 10% over tp fees.

[battledrone.8315]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:yep, and when was the last time they made other content than seasonal events? i cant remember any, can you?i call BS on 8 g/hour by chopping wood, and even if its true, my point still stands: i will NOT pay for some goldfarmers "service " to progress8g an hour is on the lower end of the scale and half what it was three years ago before mounts and a season and a half of LW farms shifted the economy.It is absolutely reasonable and doable.SPECIALLY not in a game , that was promoted as "different" in that regardEVE has the same mechanic, and it makes sense there, but in a casual mmo, not so muchTo compare this game with EVE online is even more asinine than the Dark Souls link that started this thread.What's clear is you do not understand what actually drives the economy in this game, or do and are just clinging to a false argument.@battledrone.8315 You are not representative of casual players in this game.i wouldnt be surprised, if they make a vendor, so people can buy them at a fixed (and lower) pricelocking progress behind the AH barons was HUGE mistakeNo one in this game is making big bank off runes and sigils or armorcrafting. In many cases the components used to craft them are worth less crafted than they are sold separatelyThese items seldom even net the creator more than 10% over tp fees.

loool the cheapest runes are around 2-3 s, and the USEFUL ones are from 3 g and upwards...come again?i know im not representative anymore, but i was, when they still HAD all those millions of happy playersEVE is an mmo, just like this is, i have played both, and they are in the same market

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:yep, and when was the last time they made other content than seasonal events? i cant remember any, can you?i call BS on 8 g/hour by chopping wood, and even if its true, my point still stands: i will NOT pay for some goldfarmers "service " to progress8g an hour is on the lower end of the scale and half what it was three years ago before mounts and a season and a half of LW farms shifted the economy.It is absolutely reasonable and doable.SPECIALLY not in a game , that was promoted as "different" in that regardEVE has the same mechanic, and it makes sense there, but in a casual mmo, not so muchTo compare this game with EVE online is even more asinine than the Dark Souls link that started this thread.What's clear is you do not understand what actually drives the economy in this game, or do and are just clinging to a false argument.@battledrone.8315 You are not representative of casual players in this game.i wouldnt be surprised, if they make a vendor, so people can buy them at a fixed (and lower) pricelocking progress behind the AH barons was HUGE mistakeNo one in this game is making big bank off runes and sigils or armorcrafting. In many cases the components used to craft them are worth less crafted than they are sold separatelyThese items seldom even net the creator more than 10% over tp fees.

loool the cheapest runes are around 2-3 s, and the USEFUL ones are from 3 g and upwards...come again?i know im not representative anymore, but i was, when they still HAD all those millions of happy playersEVE is an mmo, just like this is, i have played both, and they are in the same market

Ok i can offer to buy you gear ok. Wich class do you play wich stats

[maddoctor.2738]

@"battledrone.8315" said:i know im not representative anymore, but i was, when they still HAD all those millions of happy players

The game never had "millions of happy players". The best it reached was 400k happy players on release day, after that it's debatable how many players were active. You seem to mistake sales with happy players, for a buy to play game those are not equal, as you need to buy it before trying it.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"battledrone.8315" said:i know im not representative anymore, but i was, when they still HAD all those millions of happy playersNo.I'm sure most of the "millions" could manage to do dailies, didn't have some weird issue with using the TP, enjoyed a game with an open free respec system and didn't struggle with basic combat like you claim to.

[Black Storm.6974]

I can easily compete things in HoT maps with an alt account, without mounts and with a badly equipped character of a profession I know nothing about.

It just require some attention (and the ability to dodge and use the auto attack), enough to feel like we are in the dangerous place that Heart of Maguuma is supposed to be.

For the Hero Points that require to kill a champion I was always able to find someone to help me (even without having to ask).

[Ayrilana.1396]

@"battledrone.8315" said:

GW2 was SOLD with the PROMISE of a no grind policy. if you dont see the problem there...

Read this as you misinterpreted the meaning behind their statement of "no grind" and continue to do so

Hey folks,

I just want to take a second to address this topic, because it’s something we state as one of our key philosophies – but don’t often clarify exactly what we mean we say it. And because everyone and their mother has their own unique interpretation of what grind can mean, it’s very simple for this to feel like we’re not following our own guidelines when we build and implement content.

When our company president said we have an anti-grind philosophy way back before Gw2 shipped, and when it has been repeatedly reinforced since then, our statement is simply: “We don’t think you should need to grind to get the best gear and stats in Guild Wars 2”.

So what exactly does that mean:

• The best gear/stats: This means to have statistically the best abilities in the game, you shouldn’t need to, by our definition of the word, grind. This goes for leveling and getting top gear (by our definition that’s ascended gear, legendary being an optional extra thing you can do, but don’t need to do.)

• Grind: To us, grind means being required to do the same boring activity over and over again. In particular, the biggest reference we’re talking about here in traditional MMO’s is having to kill the same creatures over and over again to farm for levels or gear. In Gw2, you can gain exp and levels from a massive variety of game play, game modes, and content types. Same goes for the ability to acquire the gear to build up your characters. Similarly, ascended mats can be acquired from a wide variety of content types and game modes to allow you choice and options so you don’t need to grind to complete those goals. Our new mastery system continues to this promise as well, which we’ll go into more detail on soon.

There are certainly optional activities in the game players can embark on that I think we’d openly accept fall into the category of our definition of more “grindy”. Earning certain unique skins, and in particular some titles absolutely qualify as things we’d put on this list. Legendary weapons have components to them that fall into this category, though we’ll be doing work in HOT to make this much less the case. We feel these are optional choices players don’t need to do, but can if they want, and because they are optional are acceptable within our statement that “Gw2 doesn’t make you grind to have the best gear/stats”. That doesn’t mean we can’t make those activities more fun as well, but when we say “no grind philosophy” we’re not including optional things you can do, but don’t need to do, in our definition.

Hope that helps a bit, that’s our philosophy and definition we’re going by when we make those statements. They may not align to your definition of grind, and that’s ok – we’re fine with that! It’s just important you know what we mean when we make that statement so you can make decisions about how you view Gw2 and judge us by our actions/words.

Thanks again for being so passionate about this topic and the game which ever side of the discussion you fall on. It’s something incredibly important to modern MMO’s and gamers in general, and we truly appreciate the dialogue you all are having on topics like this. It’s what makes better games for all of us.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-grind-philosophy/page/4#post4733273