No Downstate Week

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:No downed state is healthy for wvw and should be a permanent addition.Healthy how? Where is the health gain?

As I've mentioned before, its new and exciting now, midweek its gonna get annoying and end of the week most will realize how kitten boring it makes fights because they all end in an instant and its impossible to punish ressers/stompers. I already saw the tendancies in zerging yesterday - the overwhelming forces just roflstomps without any delay to actually finish the job.

Welcome to one push land.

This.

The event plays out exactly as I had predicted in the last thread:

1. at equal skill level, the bigger group wins
2. given point 1, the weaker or smaller group of equal skill tries to turn tides in their favor by mass siege and turtle
3. organized groups, even of smaller number are destroying publics (I was in a 2 guild combined group of 25-30 players having a grand time wiping the other sides blob, might not have been full zone but rather 45-50)
4. bigger groups that get outplayed by smaller organized groups try to turn tides in their favor by mass siege and turtle
5. players who die on first engage eventually log off even faster
6. mass snipers and high damage poke from the sides and behind trying to capitalize on slow or lacking supports

Where are the cons?

[Dawdler.8521]

@Too Frisky.9165 said:being downed inside the enemy zerg is no longer a literal advantage for your zerg.I am incredibly curious to know how being downed has ever been an advantage in a fight, as opposed to being up and running.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

so some players hate that event because they will die more often? what's WvW? a PvE map? tsss.everything that tone down bus in profite of smaller groups are a good thing.

[Shroud.2307]

Throwing an idea out there in an attempt to appease both sides- those who like no downed state and those who don't.

What if when Outnumbered is active the server that is creating the Outnumber loses their downed state?A buff appears on their bar stating that they greatly outnumber the offending servers and their downed state will be disabled until that changes.

Not as an event but as a permanent feature.

[hobotnicax.7918]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Too Frisky.9165 said:being downed inside the enemy zerg is no longer a literal advantage for your zerg.I am incredibly curious to know how being downed has ever been an

advantage

in a fight, as opposed to being up and running.

Most players do more damage from downed state than when they're up and running.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

Hate for Warclaw instant finisher. People enjoy no-downed-week.

Idea for the next event: Heaven or Hell mode. Lifting the no-downed concept to the next level, all that matters is your speed.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:Ah yes, week of sudden increase in burst rangers, permastealth deadeyes and whatever 1shot build you can use from safe distance or stealth!

no downstate week coupled with no stealth (optionally ranger ban). That would be awesome.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:No downed state is healthy for wvw and should be a permanent addition.Healthy how? Where is the health gain?

As I've mentioned before, its new and exciting now, midweek its gonna get annoying and end of the week most will realize how kitten boring it makes fights because they all end in an instant and its impossible to punish ressers/stompers. I already saw the tendancies in zerging yesterday - the overwhelming forces just roflstomps without any delay to actually finish the job.

Welcome to one push land.

This.

The event plays out exactly as I had predicted in the last thread:

1. at equal skill level, the bigger group wins
2. given point 1, the weaker or smaller group of equal skill tries to turn tides in their favor by mass siege and turtle
3. organized groups, even of smaller number are destroying publics (I was in a 2 guild combined group of 25-30 players having a grand time wiping the other sides blob, might not have been full zone but rather 45-50)
4. bigger groups that get outplayed by smaller organized groups try to turn tides in their favor by mass siege and turtle
5. players who die on first engage eventually log off even faster
6. mass snipers and high damage poke from the sides and behind trying to capitalize on slow or lacking supports

Where are the cons?

I'll get back to you when we are back to 1 full server per region. Not that this would in any way affect the non existent developer resources for the mode, but I'm sure you'll have moved on by then.

[bambi.6214]

The game is soooooo much faster with no downstate. No messing around with vapor form, no blinking thieves. Also no time wasted waiting for an enemy to finish you off, you can just wp instantly.

[suialthor.7164]

From what I saw last night (servers differ)

Good:

• Larger fights
• Less roamers

Bad:

• Struggling even more to get credit for fighting as a support
• With more defensive builds in the groups, damage is way too high

Next event: Damage reduction across the board and diminishing returns on crowd control?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:Ah yes, week of sudden increase in burst rangers, permastealth deadeyes and whatever 1shot build you can use from safe distance or stealth!

no downstate week coupled with no stealth (optionally ranger ban). That would be awesome.

I have a feeling that people would jump on some condi Trailblazer/Dire builds.But I still like your idea.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

This has been the greatest day of WvW ever for me so far. And I was roaming on s/d core thief.

How about all the complainers just stop letting your HP hit 0? People trying to argue that it is "healthy for the game" for larger groups to be able to put their downs back on the training wheels are just delusional. Smaller groups almost NEVER have rez spam advantage compared to larger groups, learn to think.

Last night was all about harassing and sending slow tanky zergers home 1 by 1 and it was great. No 50k downed health, no worrying about random aoe counter cleave, you just die when your HP hits 0 how crazy is that? I can't go back to 'normal' WvW.

[LetoII.3782]

@Heibi.4251 said:

@Dagger.2035 said:Tier 4 NA may be a mess due to a certain server tanking...

We've made plans for that. They won't be happy

Is it to send wave after wave until the whole server reaches it's preset kill limit?

[frareanselm.1925]

@hobotnicax.7918 said:F.ing finally. WvW will be enjoyable again for 1 week. gg Anet, keep it permanent please.

Yes, for a pewew ranger is enjoyable. For others classes is the worst decision anet has taken ever.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:Maybe not 100-0 in that sense but I guarantee you will see the most toxic builds come out.

Maybe. Truth is, roamers who like easy kills will have fun ganking down the flood of GoB farmers. It will be those who enjoy actual fights, small scale or large, that will be the ones suffering during that week, as people resort more to PPT for double WXP (large scale) or for roamers, the people you will keep coming across will likely be less experienced in WvW and won't give you much of a challenge.

I just had to Google your name, ?

[urd.8306]

Make no Downstate apply to PvE, sPvP and Raids too, so all have to suffer through this stupidity equally.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

First of, when you win 3v1 in this type of week, you probably got your burst off faster or were fighting way weaker players.

Your mileage will vary.

There are two ways to roam/havoc. More offensive builds need to hit and run, balanced or defensive ones plan to hit and move thru. I go the later. Zergs gear more like PvErs. And downstate supports that. But no-downstate weeks show that more defense pays more since once they are down they are out, but during normal weeks when you attack the larger force the mechanic further supports them to allow the larger side to get their people back up. Again other changes to downstate might better balance that difference in numbers versus the no downstate and allow for more counterplay. Examples of this might be the reduction of downed health and the 1 to 1 rezing options. If you lose 10 peeps you will need to have 10 peeps out of the fight to help them back up. Having defeated have to respawn might do the samething.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Samug.6512 said:The game is soooooo much faster with no downstate. No messing around with vapor form, no blinking thieves. Also no time wasted waiting for an enemy to finish you off, you can just wp instantly.I agree.

It is faster. And thats what makes any fight so... hollow. No soul. I fought this morning and its like running in zombie mode. Switch off the brain, kill and move on. Sometimes I just moved on before they even died, just condi burst when running past lol. Since the enemy is equally running like a pack of rabid dogs, its not like you can stop anyway. There is no satisfaction to actually killing players. Its like killing NPCs.

Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down with downstate:

• Whats my HP, am I good enough to perform a stomp?
• What class is he, what do I need to consider him being able to do?
• Is there enemy reinforcements incoming?
• Do I need stealth?
• Do I need stab?
• Do I need invouln?
• Should I cleave him?
• Do I need to CC ressers?
• Is it too risky position to do anything, should I withdraw?
• Do I need to tell my squadmates to suppress him while I stomp?
• Do I need to tell my squadmates they have to stomp/cleave because I cant?Etc

Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down without downstate:

• He ded

[urd.8306]

It feels like being in a club with lots of horny 13year old gangsta rapper kiddies trying to hit on you.

[Heibi.4251]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Heibi.4251 said:

@Dagger.2035 said:Tier 4 NA may be a mess due to a certain server tanking...

We've made plans for that. They won't be happy

Is it to send wave after wave until the whole server reaches it's preset kill limit?

That would make them happy. What would make them most unhappy? You might want to think a little harder on what is implied here.

[Sobx.1758]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:No downed state is healthy for wvw and should be a permanent addition.Healthy how? Where is the health gain?

As I've mentioned before, its new and exciting now, midweek its gonna get annoying and end of the week most will realize how kitten boring it makes fights because they all end in an instant and its impossible to punish ressers/stompers. I already saw the tendancies in zerging yesterday - the overwhelming forces just roflstomps without any delay to actually finish the job.

Welcome to one push land.

1. at equal skill level, the bigger group wins

Also true when downstate is in the game. Possibly even more than it is now.

2. given point 1, the weaker or smaller group of equal skill tries to turn tides in their favor by mass siege and turtle

Except this time smaller groups have the possibility to chip some targets from larger groups, otherwise those targets just go into downstate and get picked up by friendly zerg.

3. organized groups, even of smaller number are destroying publics (I was in a 2 guild combined group of 25-30 players having a grand time wiping the other sides blob, might not have been full zone but rather 45-50)

And this isn't how it should be? How is this a valid complaint?

4. bigger groups that get outplayed by smaller organized groups try to turn tides in their favor by mass siege and turtle

Also true when downstate is present :sleeping:Also I'm not sure why this is separated form point 2, maybe you just wanted more points on the list. It's basically "people that lose, try to turtle up to even up the fight". Nothing about this behavior is abnormal.

5. players who die on first engage eventually log off even faster

This is as much of the fact as it is during downstate mechanic present in the game. "We get rolled over? Not fun, bye". Somehow you're trying to make it no-downstate-specific just to push your opinion on the matter.

6. mass snipers and high damage poke from the sides and behind trying to capitalize on slow or lacking supports

It's time you start taking care about your supports once in a while. "I can't just blindly run in as fast as possible or my support might get picked off from the back", how is this a valid complaint?

In short, a great event for organized and/or experienced players, and the occasional roamer/sniper, casual players will soon get bored or tilted and leave the mode for the week.

Casual players are getting kittened on regularly with downstate or not. They still camp behind the walls, they still try to sit in the middle of zergs, they still don't like losing, they still log out when they get tired, they still lose against organized groups. If it's a great event for organized/experienced players then that's more than enough to want it in the game.

I personally love the fact this event comes around occasionally. Shuts up all the people on the forums who think this would be a great idea for the game mode without extensive re-balance and redesign.

Shuts up who exactly? People still like it and vouch for it, what are you talking about?

Also great practice for players to realize who actually gets carried by the downstate mechanic.

Yeah, bad players and zerg huggers and that's exactly why it shouldn't be in the game. ACTUALLY good point.

---

@Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:No downed state is healthy for wvw and should be a permanent addition.Healthy how? Where is the health gain?

As I've mentioned before, its new and exciting now, midweek its gonna get annoying and end of the week most will realize how kitten boring it makes fights because they all end in an instant and its impossible to punish ressers/stompers. I already saw the tendancies in zerging yesterday - the overwhelming forces just roflstomps without any delay to actually finish the job.

Welcome to one push land.

This.

The event plays out exactly as I had predicted in the last thread:

1. at equal skill level, the bigger group wins
2. given point 1, the weaker or smaller group of equal skill tries to turn tides in their favor by mass siege and turtle
3. organized groups, even of smaller number are destroying publics (I was in a 2 guild combined group of 25-30 players having a grand time wiping the other sides blob, might not have been full zone but rather 45-50)
4. bigger groups that get outplayed by smaller organized groups try to turn tides in their favor by mass siege and turtle
5. players who die on first engage eventually log off even faster
6. mass snipers and high damage poke from the sides and behind trying to capitalize on slow or lacking supports

Where are the cons?

Seriously, lmao.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

If you're a skilled player you know how to properly use downstate, those who don't aren't effective regardless but i find no joy in losing a skill i am adept at using. It has been a staple in the game since the onset and it needs to stay, enough with this gimmicky crap thanks!

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Samug.6512 said:The game is soooooo much faster with no downstate. No messing around with vapor form, no blinking thieves. Also no time wasted waiting for an enemy to finish you off, you can just wp instantly.I agree.

It

is

faster. And thats what makes any fight so...

hollow

.

No soul

. I fought this morning and its like running in zombie mode. Switch off the brain, kill and move on. Sometimes I just moved on before they even died, just condi burst when running past lol. Since the enemy is equally running like a pack of rabid dogs, its not like you can stop anyway. There is no satisfaction to actually killing players. Its like killing NPCs.

Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down with downstate:

• Whats my HP, am I good enough to perform a stomp?
• What class is he, what do I need to consider him being able to do?
• Is there enemy reinforcements incoming?
• Do I need stealth?
• Do I need stab?
• Do I need invouln?
• Should I cleave him?
• Do I need to CC ressers?
• Is it too risky position to do anything, should I withdraw?
• Do I need to tell my squadmates to suppress him while I stomp?
• Do I need to tell my squadmates they have to stomp/cleave because I cant?
  Etc

Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down without downstate:

• He ded

you don't realise how stupid it is to have a fight were the players you downed just go back up. downstate is a PvE mechanic that helps bus or larger groups being even more stronger which isn't healthy at all.now fights are tense, the hunt is enjoyable, some even fear the death becasue they know they wont be rez. when you go in, you put everytihng you can on the table, you stick better than ever because you MUST survive.zerg fights are not that quicker. downed dies very quickly when zerg decide to clash.the only real downside of this event is the death of duels. (and less bags since you can't spam 1 on every downed, but meh)

[zinkz.7045]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Samug.6512" said:The game is soooooo much faster with no downstate. No messing around with vapor form, no blinking thieves. Also no time wasted waiting for an enemy to finish you off, you can just wp instantly.I agree.

It

is

faster. And thats what makes any fight so...

hollow

.

No soul

. I fought this morning and its like running in zombie mode. Switch off the brain, kill and move on. Sometimes I just moved on before they even died, just condi burst when running past lol. Since the enemy is equally running like a pack of rabid dogs, its not like you can stop anyway. There is no satisfaction to actually killing players. Its like killing NPCs.

Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down with downstate:

• Whats my HP, am I good enough to perform a stomp?
• What class is he, what do I need to consider him being able to do?
• Is there enemy reinforcements incoming?
• Do I need stealth?
• Do I need stab?
• Do I need invouln?
• Should I cleave him?
• Do I need to CC ressers?
• Is it too risky position to do anything, should I withdraw?
• Do I need to tell my squadmates to suppress him while I stomp?
• Do I need to tell my squadmates they have to stomp/cleave because I cant?
  Etc

Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down without downstate:

• He ded

downstate is a PvE mechanic...

Not really, it was a feature for an MMORPG that did not have actual healers and with obnoxious low skill damage application (this game carries its players by aiming for them in a supposed "action" combat game).

In PvP (which is what the combat in this game was designed around) it actually raised the relatively mediocre skill cap of the combat in this game by adding extra teamwork, decision making, awareness, etc, which is why the handful of PvP teams that were actually good in this game tended to manage downstate better than the other PvP teams, it favours better players.

Beyond that for PvP it was there for their "e-sports" as it created moments of excitement / drama when someone was downed in a teamfight, though on the other hand it was normally a dull mechanic when it came to a 1v1 on a side node. In fact it became something of a meme, in that the GW2 combat was such a dull spammy mess to watch / commentate on that at times it seemed the only drama in a match or real calls the casters made were in relation to downstate.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Samug.6512" said:The game is soooooo much faster with no downstate. No messing around with vapor form, no blinking thieves. Also no time wasted waiting for an enemy to finish you off, you can just wp instantly.I agree.

It

is

faster. And thats what makes any fight so...

hollow

.

No soul

. I fought this morning and its like running in zombie mode. Switch off the brain, kill and move on. Sometimes I just moved on before they even died, just condi burst when running past lol. Since the enemy is equally running like a pack of rabid dogs, its not like you can stop anyway. There is no satisfaction to actually killing players. Its like killing NPCs.

Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down with downstate:

• Whats my HP, am I good enough to perform a stomp?
• What class is he, what do I need to consider him being able to do?
• Is there enemy reinforcements incoming?
• Do I need stealth?
• Do I need stab?
• Do I need invouln?
• Should I cleave him?
• Do I need to CC ressers?
• Is it too risky position to do anything, should I withdraw?
• Do I need to tell my squadmates to suppress him while I stomp?
• Do I need to tell my squadmates they have to stomp/cleave because I cant?
  Etc

Heres the typical scenario after getting someone down without downstate:

• He ded

downstate is a PvE mechanic...

Not really, it was a feature for an MMORPG that did not have actual healers and with obnoxious low skill damage application (this game carries its players by aiming for them in a supposed "action" combat game).

In PvP (which is what the combat in this game was designed around) it actually raised the relatively mediocre skill cap of the combat in this game by adding extra teamwork, decision making, awareness, etc, which is why the handful of PvP teams that were actually good in this game tended to manage downstate better than the other PvP teams, it favours better players.

Beyond that for PvP it was there for their "e-sports" as it created moments of excitement / drama when someone was downed in a teamfight, though on the other hand it was normally a dull mechanic when it came to a 1v1 on a side node. In fact it became something of a meme, in that the GW2 combat was such a dull spammy mess to watch / commentate on that at times it seemed the only drama in a match or real calls the casters made were in relation to downstate.

i do think ths downstate mechanic give a unique feel to sPvP. and it does add some depth. but for WvW it is a pain when playing outside of a bus.