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HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.


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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:okay, but cats dont have credit cards. core sold many million times. the expansions sold only a fraction of that. apparantly, they could do better, by designing the game for CATS instead

Core sold well due to over-hype. How much revenue did core lose after a single quarter? This shows how many players -stayed- playing the game after they tried it (hint: not many compared to overall sales)

This is an unsupported claim given the buy to play business model. You have no way to know whether the decline in Q3 2013 from the all-time high in Q4 2012 (which by the way was the quarter after the game's release quarter) was due to players leaving. A much more likely explanation is that most who were going to buy the game had already bought it by the end of 2012.

This by the way does not mean I am against what HoT brought to the game, it's just that this particular argument is flawed.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:lets see , wow did exceptionally well, as long as they stuck to the formula. when they CHANGED it, the game went south.same with CoX, villain side was just more of the same. STOs "expansions" added new features and new races, while increasing difficulty slightly.dont know about FF, since i never made i past lvl 20. SWTOR expansions did have higher difficulty, but they also have increased level cap and other newfeatures to help the casuals.As someone who has played a fair few MMOs and read your posts on and off on this forum for a while now....I do not believe that you are at all representative of the average casual gamer.Most of the ones I have played with or talked to struggle with this game a fair bit less than you claim to.

The fact that you on one hand talk about how grindy gearing in GW2 is, while consistently talking about playing DCUO, (a simple game with a very punishing end game gear grind that gates your progress behind gear score with endless dailies and rng drops) is.....odd.

dcuo is a pretty standard mmo, and they dont claim to be anything elseGW2 was SOLD with the PROMISE of a no grind policy. if you dont see the problem there...furthermore, dcuo dont let the players control the flow of important items, like runes and weapon enhancementsif i want to progress, i literally have to pay a GOLD FARMER. not gonna happen

You misinterpreted what they meant by no grind.

@battledrone.8315 said:if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

Preparing players for a future encounter is not the same thing as saying how much something sucks.

no grind can only mean one thing, unless youre politician. "preparing" doesnt mesh welll with the "jump right into the fun" policy that theytouted for YEARS before the expansion either. if i had known in advance, i would never even had BOUGHT the expansion.other mmos have copied so many things from this game, but hot wasnt one of them. doesnt take much to figure out WHY.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:lets see , wow did exceptionally well, as long as they stuck to the formula. when they CHANGED it, the game went south.same with CoX, villain side was just more of the same. STOs "expansions" added new features and new races, while increasing difficulty slightly.dont know about FF, since i never made i past lvl 20. SWTOR expansions did have higher difficulty, but they also have increased level cap and other newfeatures to help the casuals.As someone who has played a fair few MMOs and read your posts on and off on this forum for a while now....I do not believe that you are at all representative of the average casual gamer.Most of the ones I have played with or talked to struggle with this game a fair bit less than you claim to.

The fact that you on one hand talk about how grindy gearing in GW2 is, while consistently talking about playing DCUO, (a simple game with a very punishing end game gear grind that gates your progress behind gear score with endless dailies and rng drops) is.....odd.

dcuo is a pretty standard mmo, and they dont claim to be anything elseGW2 was SOLD with the PROMISE of a no grind policy. if you dont see the problem there...furthermore, dcuo dont let the players control the flow of important items, like runes and weapon enhancementsif i want to progress, i literally have to pay a GOLD FARMER. not gonna happen

You misinterpreted what they meant by no grind.

@battledrone.8315 said:if they had done that, i wouldnt even had entered maguma. they would had lost even more players and money. it sucks now, but telling playersin advance HOW much it sucks is a big mistake

Preparing players for a future encounter is not the same thing as saying how much something sucks.

no grind can only mean one thing, unless youre politician. "preparing" doesnt mesh welll with the "jump right into the fun" policy that theytouted for YEARS before the expansion either. if i had known in advance, i would never even had BOUGHT the expansion.other mmos have copied so many things from this game, but hot wasnt one of them. doesnt take much to figure out WHY.

No. You took it out of context on what they were referring to. They even clarified the what they said year ago, which I posted above, yet you're choosing to ignore that because it doesn't fit your narrative. All MMOs have grind and none would survive long without it because you cannot generate content and rewards quick enough to satisfy all the players; especially the ones who spend 8+ hours every day.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:i know im not representative anymore, but i was, when they still HAD all those millions of happy playersNo.I'm sure most of the "millions" could manage to do dailies, didn't have some weird issue with using the TP, enjoyed a game with an open free respec system and didn't struggle with basic combat like you claim to.

i have only seen ONE mmo where millions were prepared to do dailies, and that was wow back in the happy days. when you start doing dailies, youre not casual anymore,you are HOOKED

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:yep, and when was the last time they made other content than seasonal events? i cant remember any, can you?i call BS on 8 g/hour by chopping wood, and even if its true, my point still stands: i will NOT pay for some goldfarmers "service " to progress8g an hour is on the lower end of the scale and half what it was three years ago before mounts and a season and a half of LW farms shifted the economy.It is absolutely reasonable and doable.SPECIALLY not in a game , that was promoted as "different" in that regardEVE has the same mechanic, and it makes sense there, but in a casual mmo, not so muchTo compare this game with EVE online is even more asinine than the Dark Souls link that started this thread.What's clear is you do not understand what actually drives the economy in this game, or do and are just clinging to a false argument.@battledrone.8315 You are not representative of casual players in this game.i wouldnt be surprised, if they make a vendor, so people can buy them at a fixed (and lower) pricelocking progress behind the AH barons was HUGE mistakeNo one in this game is making big bank off runes and sigils or armorcrafting. In many cases the components used to craft them are worth less crafted than they are sold separatelyThese items seldom even net the creator more than 10% over tp fees.

loool the cheapest runes are around 2-3 s, and the USEFUL ones are from 3 g and upwards...come again?i know im not representative anymore, but i was, when they still HAD all those millions of happy playersEVE is an mmo, just like this is, i have played both, and they are in the same market

Ok i can offer to buy you gear ok. Wich class do you play wich stats

thats very nice of you, but i am not playing anymore. reinstalling swtor instead, i havent played that for a long time now

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@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:okay, but cats dont have credit cards. core sold many million times. the expansions sold only a fraction of that. apparantly, they could do better, by designing the game for CATS instead

Core sold well due to over-hype. How much revenue did core lose after a single quarter? This shows how many players -stayed- playing the game after they tried it (hint: not many compared to overall sales)

This is an unsupported claim given the buy to play business model. You have no way to know whether the decline in Q3 2013 from the all-time high in Q4 2012 (which by the way
was
the quarter after the game's release quarter) was due to players leaving. A much more likely explanation is that most who were going to buy the game had already bought it by the end of 2012.

This by the way does not mean I am against what HoT brought to the game, it's just that this particular argument is flawed.

The game was released near the end of Q3 2012 so it was natural for the bulk of sales to be on Q4 2012. By the way you bring an interesting argument, the lack of revenue after a release quarter not being because players left, I wonder how it will be taken when the "revenue after HOT" is discussed again on these forums.

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@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:okay, but cats dont have credit cards. core sold many million times. the expansions sold only a fraction of that. apparantly, they could do better, by designing the game for CATS instead

Core sold well due to over-hype. How much revenue did core lose after a single quarter? This shows how many players -stayed- playing the game after they tried it (hint: not many compared to overall sales)

This is an unsupported claim given the buy to play business model. You have no way to know whether the decline in Q3 2013 from the all-time high in Q4 2012 (which by the way
was
the quarter after the game's release quarter) was due to players leaving. A much more likely explanation is that most who were going to buy the game had already bought it by the end of 2012.

This by the way does not mean I am against what HoT brought to the game, it's just that this particular argument is flawed.

It could also be that players aren't buying gems in the same quantities now because gold farming has become so much easier and lucrative.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:i know im not representative anymore, but i was, when they still HAD all those millions of happy playersNo.I'm sure most of the "millions" could manage to do dailies, didn't have some weird issue with using the TP, enjoyed a game with an open free respec system and didn't struggle with basic combat like you claim to.

i have only seen ONE mmo where millions were prepared to do dailies, and that was wow back in the happy days. when you start doing dailies, youre not casual anymore,you are HOOKEDThe crowd of people nuking down mobs in starter zones on "event completer" nights proves you very wrong.
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@maddoctor.2738 said:

Core sold well due to over-hype. How much revenue did core lose after a single quarter? This shows how many players -stayed- playing the game after they tried it (hint: not many compared to overall sales)

This is an unsupported claim given the buy to play business model. You have no way to know whether the decline in Q3 2013 from the all-time high in Q4 2012 (which by the way
was
the quarter after the game's release quarter) was due to players leaving. A much more likely explanation is that most who were going to buy the game had already bought it by the end of 2012.

This by the way does not mean I am against what HoT brought to the game, it's just that this particular argument is flawed.

The game was released near the end of Q3 2012 so it was natural for the bulk of sales to be on Q4 2012. By the way you bring an interesting argument, the lack of revenue after a release quarter not being because players left, I wonder how it will be taken when the "revenue after HOT" is discussed again on these forums.

Just like every legitimate point that has been made on these boards that did not mesh with someone's narrative. FWIW, my belief about whether players left the game due to HoT was that if they did it was more about the "slighted veteran player" perception and the "lack of content for the price" perception than it was about the "difficulty" perception.

@"kharmin.7683" said:

It could also be that players aren't buying gems in the same quantities now because gold farming has become so much easier and lucrative.

I was talking about 2013, and I don't remember it being anywhere near as easy back then, before Ascended crafting created a materials demand.

It's an interesting point, though, worth further comment as far as now goes. We know the current rate and past rates. For instance, the exchange rate in January, 20013 for 100 gems was about 1.77 gold. At the end of July, 2020, it was over 35 gold per 100. We have also been told that every gem obtained by gold was bought by someone else who paid cash. Also, we know that if more gold is put into the exchange, the ratio goes up in favor of gems, and vice versa.

We can see that the ratios reach points of relative stability during periods when neither the gem store nor the game offer highly desirable items that cost either gems or gold. Then one or the other spikes when such an item is added. The biggest spike in the gems to gold ratio in the last five years was when PoF dropped and it cost 250 gold to get the griffon mount.

What we don't know is the volume of exchange use. That said, the common perception on the forums is that more players are pumping gold into the exchange now because it's easier to get gold. It also seems to be a common perception that this costs ANet money. However, if more players are buying gems with gold, that could mean more revenue for ANet in gem sales, especially if the higher gold-to-gems ratio entices players to buy gems to get gold.

The real question, though, is how many of the players who get the gems they want via gold would spend cash if the exchange did not exist? Color me cynical if you will, but I look at the percentage who buy in F2P game stores and think a lot of them (maybe most) would not. After all, while GW2 is B2P for the XPac's, once you've bought them, playing is free.

ANet revenue side issue to HoT discussion

Interestingly enough, I see that GW2 revenue produced in Q2 2020 increased by over 3 billion Korean Won over G1 2020. That's a spike of over $2.5m.

https://kr.ncsoft.com/en/ir/irArchive/earningsRelease.do

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@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:What we don't know is the volume of exchange use. That said, the common perception on the forums is that more players are pumping gold into the exchange now because it's easier to get gold. It also seems to be a common perception that this costs ANet money. However, if more players are buying gems with gold, that could mean more revenue for ANet in gem sales, especially if the higher gold-to-gems ratio entices players to buy gems to get gold.

Indeed. And about the idea of buying gems with gold costing Anet money, there is another reason why that's false:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/bltc/So-much-for-the-bag-bank-slot-sale/page/2#post1491917

This means, no matter what happens to the exchange, getting lower or higher, it doesn't mean much about buying items with cash, instead it means players don't buy gems and then exchange them for gold as much as they buy gems with their gold.

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@Croc.1978 said:

@"Atomos.7593" said:Maybe they could mention the increase in difficulty in HoT expansion content and add some tips and strategies in the new player guide, so players are aware before entering. Might also be useful to mention that mounts can be unlocked account wide by doing the PoF expansion content first.

What they should have done IMO:

Create kind of a Pact "boot camp" for jungle warfare in Silverwastes that players have to pass before they are allowed to enter VB (possibly as part of the personal story):

"Commander, we have managed to capture some Mordrem and wildlife from the Maguuma jungle. We use them to familiarize our troops with the threads that await us there." Players would then get pitched into 1-on-1 fights against some typical Maguuma opponents, for instance:
  • fight a Mordrem sniper without getting hit by his charged shot
  • fight a rolling devil by breaking its defiance bar
  • fight a smokescale where they have to move out of the smoke screen
  • fight a Mordrem cavalier without getting knocked down, etc ...

This is an awesome idea. I'm not one of the players that ever needed this, but just knowing these things would help so many folks. Every time I take someone new through HoT on one of my one-man HP trains, I end up lecturing folks on precisely these sorts of things.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:You're triggered. Tons of players love HoT. Sorry you hate it with such passion, but the fact is you are not representative of the average player and the core game was never remotely as popular as you seem to think it was.

if the core game was that bad, it wouldnt had sold roughly a mio times every year. hot only sold around 1.5 mio times TOTAL.if TONS of players loved it, you can bet that they would had made MORE like it. a good mmo is like a house, if the foundation is flawed, its never gonnawork out.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:i know im not representative anymore, but i was, when they still HAD all those millions of happy playersNo.I'm sure most of the "millions" could manage to do dailies, didn't have some weird issue with using the TP, enjoyed a game with an open free respec system and didn't struggle with basic combat like you claim to.

i have only seen ONE mmo where millions were prepared to do dailies, and that was wow back in the happy days. when you start doing dailies, youre not casual anymore,you are HOOKEDThe crowd of people nuking down mobs in starter zones on "event completer" nights proves you very wrong.

lool, so they have MILLIONS of players there? okay, have fun with that then. if that was true, i doubt thay have had to lay all those people of

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@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@"Atomos.7593" said:Maybe they could mention the increase in difficulty in HoT expansion content and add some tips and strategies in the new player guide, so players are aware before entering. Might also be useful to mention that mounts can be unlocked account wide by doing the PoF expansion content first.

What they should have done IMO:

Create kind of a Pact "boot camp" for jungle warfare in Silverwastes that players have to pass before they are allowed to enter VB (possibly as part of the personal story):

"Commander, we have managed to capture some Mordrem and wildlife from the Maguuma jungle. We use them to familiarize our troops with the threads that await us there." Players would then get pitched into 1-on-1 fights against some typical Maguuma opponents, for instance:
  • fight a Mordrem sniper without getting hit by his charged shot
  • fight a rolling devil by breaking its defiance bar
  • fight a smokescale where they have to move out of the smoke screen
  • fight a Mordrem cavalier without getting knocked down, etc ...

This is an awesome idea. I'm not one of the players that ever needed this, but just
knowing
these things would help so many folks. Every time I take someone new through HoT on one of my one-man HP trains, I end up lecturing folks on precisely these sorts of things.

"commander, our soldiers are deserting, because we rearm the prisoners, they had just risked their lifes to capture"from a gaming perspective it would make sense, but it wouldnt make any sense at all from a logical perspectivewhen enemies are so dangerous, there usually ARE no prisoners. and any soldier would KILL anyone, who is trying to help the enemies

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:

GW2 was SOLD with the PROMISE of a no grind policy. if you dont see the problem there...

Read this as you misinterpreted the meaning behind their statement of "no grind" and continue to do so

Hey folks,

I just want to take a second to address this topic, because it’s something we state as one of our key philosophies – but don’t often clarify exactly what we mean we say it. And because everyone and their mother has their own unique interpretation of what grind can mean, it’s very simple for this to feel like we’re not following our own guidelines when we build and implement content.

When our company president said we have an anti-grind philosophy way back before Gw2 shipped, and when it has been repeatedly reinforced since then, our statement is simply: “We don’t think you should need to grind to get the best gear and stats in Guild Wars 2”.

So what exactly does that mean:
  • The best gear/stats: This means to have statistically the best abilities in the game, you shouldn’t need to, by our definition of the word, grind. This goes for leveling and getting top gear (by our definition that’s ascended gear, legendary being an optional extra thing you can do, but don’t need to do.)
  • Grind: To us, grind means being required to do the same boring activity over and over again. In particular, the biggest reference we’re talking about here in traditional MMO’s is having to kill the same creatures over and over again to farm for levels or gear. In Gw2, you can gain exp and levels from a massive variety of game play, game modes, and content types. Same goes for the ability to acquire the gear to build up your characters. Similarly, ascended mats can be acquired from a wide variety of content types and game modes to allow you choice and options so you don’t need to grind to complete those goals. Our new mastery system continues to this promise as well, which we’ll go into more detail on soon.

There are certainly optional activities in the game players can embark on that I think we’d openly accept fall into the category of our definition of more “grindy”. Earning certain unique skins, and in particular some titles absolutely qualify as things we’d put on this list. Legendary weapons have components to them that fall into this category, though we’ll be doing work in HOT to make this much less the case. We feel these are optional choices players don’t need to do, but can if they want, and because they are optional are acceptable within our statement that “Gw2 doesn’t make you grind to have the best gear/stats”. That doesn’t mean we can’t make those activities more fun as well, but when we say “no grind philosophy” we’re not including optional things you can do, but don’t need to do, in our definition.

Hope that helps a bit, that’s our philosophy and definition we’re going by when we make those statements. They may not align to your definition of grind, and that’s ok – we’re fine with that! It’s just important you know what we mean when we make that statement so you can make decisions about how you view Gw2 and judge us by our actions/words.

Thanks again for being so passionate about this topic and the game which ever side of the discussion you fall on. It’s something incredibly important to modern MMO’s and gamers in general, and we truly appreciate the dialogue you all are having on topics like this. It’s what makes better games for all of us.

what is your point? are you trying to imply, that runes and sigils arent gear? or, that they dont improve my stats?or that i dont have to GRIND to get them?

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@battledrone.8315 said:

GW2 was SOLD with the PROMISE of a no grind policy. if you dont see the problem there...

Read this as you misinterpreted the meaning behind their statement of "no grind" and continue to do so

Hey folks,

I just want to take a second to address this topic, because it’s something we state as one of our key philosophies – but don’t often clarify exactly what we mean we say it. And because everyone and their mother has their own unique interpretation of what grind can mean, it’s very simple for this to feel like we’re not following our own guidelines when we build and implement content.

When our company president said we have an anti-grind philosophy way back before Gw2 shipped, and when it has been repeatedly reinforced since then, our statement is simply: “We don’t think you should need to grind to get the best gear and stats in Guild Wars 2”.

So what exactly does that mean:
  • The best gear/stats: This means to have statistically the best abilities in the game, you shouldn’t need to, by our definition of the word, grind. This goes for leveling and getting top gear (by our definition that’s ascended gear, legendary being an optional extra thing you can do, but don’t need to do.)
  • Grind: To us, grind means being required to do the same boring activity over and over again. In particular, the biggest reference we’re talking about here in traditional MMO’s is having to kill the same creatures over and over again to farm for levels or gear. In Gw2, you can gain exp and levels from a massive variety of game play, game modes, and content types. Same goes for the ability to acquire the gear to build up your characters. Similarly, ascended mats can be acquired from a wide variety of content types and game modes to allow you choice and options so you don’t need to grind to complete those goals. Our new mastery system continues to this promise as well, which we’ll go into more detail on soon.

There are certainly optional activities in the game players can embark on that I think we’d openly accept fall into the category of our definition of more “grindy”. Earning certain unique skins, and in particular some titles absolutely qualify as things we’d put on this list. Legendary weapons have components to them that fall into this category, though we’ll be doing work in HOT to make this much less the case. We feel these are optional choices players don’t need to do, but can if they want, and because they are optional are acceptable within our statement that “Gw2 doesn’t make you grind to have the best gear/stats”. That doesn’t mean we can’t make those activities more fun as well, but when we say “no grind philosophy” we’re not including optional things you can do, but don’t need to do, in our definition.

Hope that helps a bit, that’s our philosophy and definition we’re going by when we make those statements. They may not align to your definition of grind, and that’s ok – we’re fine with that! It’s just important you know what we mean when we make that statement so you can make decisions about how you view Gw2 and judge us by our actions/words.

Thanks again for being so passionate about this topic and the game which ever side of the discussion you fall on. It’s something incredibly important to modern MMO’s and gamers in general, and we truly appreciate the dialogue you all are having on topics like this. It’s what makes better games for all of us.

what is your point? are you trying to imply, that runes and sigils arent gear? or, that they dont improve my stats?or that i dont have to GRIND to get them?

There is gear with runes on them and those are cheaper than crafted i think medium is nika, devona for heavy and light was maybe zheds i think

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My best memories were venturing into HoT for the first time. The expansion after was ok, but with mounts, nerfed mobs it didn't have that epic punch - plus the maps were more linear in levels. Only having gliding, trying to find the mastery points, it felt dangerous and epic. Now I just soar through the skies on my mounts lol.

Just make sure you're using a decent build, it doesn't have to be EXACTLY the same as a meta, but it needs to have some sensible synergy with armor, weapons, runes/sigils and talents.

You definitely want to invest some part of your gear/build into sustain, glass cannon can work but you would have to play perfectly.

That's really all there is to it, most profs can nearly solo every champion point as well. But if you're struggling there are always groups, HP trains in the LFG.

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@battledrone.8315 said:if the core game was that bad, it wouldnt had sold roughly a mio times every year. hot only sold around 1.5 mio times TOTAL.

If the core game wasn't bad they wouldn't need expansions. But it wasn't doing very well.Also, you are still missing the fact that the game went free to play shortly before the launch of HOT. If core was such a good deal then more players would buy the expansions, but apparently it wasn't good enough to force conversions as it send players away before they even passed the tutorial.

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@"battledrone.8315" said:lool, so they have MILLIONS of players there? okay, have fun with that then. if that was true, i doubt thay have had to lay all those people of

Another uninformed comment, I guess should be expected. The layoffs didn't happen because of Guild Wars 2 performance, but because the "unreleased" projects weren't deemed profitable by NCSoft. It was an issue with Arenanet as a company and projects we'll never get to see, and not about the game. As for your million comment I need to remind you that the game never had millions of players.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:You're triggered. Tons of players love HoT. Sorry you hate it with such passion, but the fact is you are not representative of the average player and the core game was never remotely as popular as you seem to think it was.

if the core game was that bad, it wouldnt had sold roughly a mio times every year. hot only sold around 1.5 mio times TOTAL.if TONS of players loved it, you can bet that they would had made MORE like it. a good mmo is like a house, if the foundation is flawed, its never gonnawork out.

Exactly. The core game was flawed, so they made it better. And here we are. If only they hadn't made the mistake of making those boring PoF maps by listening to people like you who hated HoT, we'd have a great game! Oh well. At least the other features from PoF were good.

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@"Rokeb.3815" said:I am also a 'casual' player, I've recently returned to GW2. I did buy it shortly after launched, but my first character was an engineer and I didn't every figure out what I was doing so ending up giving up.

A lot of the veteran players commenting have completely forgotten what it like for newer players.

Yes, HoT is MUCH harder than the core game that you've likely just come from. Core Tyria is no where near as punishing for small mistakes. HoT forces you to become much more of a 'twitch' player - as positioning and dodging are suddenly much more important (I'm looking at you Mordrem Snipers! )

The farcical complaint that 'HoT isn't even hard with mounts!' is equally naive - so you have to skip the first expansion - start the second expansion and come back and THEN play the fist expansion? What kind of game play design is that?

HoT is totally playable - even enjoyable eventually. However, in terms of game design - the leap from core Tyria to HoT is a huge one - and often needlessly frustrating.Invisible 'gating' of areas - ie you need to have masteries to get to a certain point, making the hero points group content (sure vets can solo them with ease - but a potential new player??) If I didn't find a nice hero point train early on in HoT, I probably would have quit the game again.

Don't even get me started on the last chapter of the story.. still trying to complete that. Casual players (like me) don't have HOURS to time to do one mission.From the wiki "The final fight with Mordremoth features mechanics that can lead to instant death and a reset of the long boss fight if you make an error"

Spending hours on the same mission over and over with no progress isn't challenging or rewarding - IT's TEDIOUS. I swear if I get a server disconnect AGAIN during that fight I'm going to rage quit for sure.

Casual players that solo are different from casual players who are in a guild, or at least thsoe that play with other people. Two people make hot a lot easier and three make it a whole lot easier. This is an MMO and even casual players can solo and learn.

I do agree that the core open world didn't prepare people for HoT. But core also had dungeons and fractals were around for years, and some casual players did learn that content, and if you did, well the jump wasn't that much.

In fact, if you'd done both Season 2 and Season 2 achievements, some of that stuff was really hard as well. Saying I didn't really play a portion of the content and only played in open world so the expansion is too hard is sort of misdirection.

I would agree with the complain that there should have been an open world ramp up to HoT and the Silverwastes and Dry Top were supposed to be that ramp. They are hard...if you try to solo everything. But if you learn to use the LFG tool and look for an active map, particularly in the Silverwastes, they're much much easier. HoT is definiteliy hard solo. Soloing is a choice.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:You're triggered. Tons of players love HoT. Sorry you hate it with such passion, but the fact is you are not representative of the average player and the core game was never remotely as popular as you seem to think it was.

if the core game was that bad, it wouldnt had sold roughly a mio times every year. hot only sold around 1.5 mio times TOTAL.if TONS of players loved it, you can bet that they would had made MORE like it. a good mmo is like a house, if the foundation is flawed, its never gonnawork out.

Exactly. The core game was flawed, so they made it better. And here we are. If only they hadn't made the mistake of making those boring PoF maps by listening to people like you who hated HoT, we'd have a great game! Oh well. At least the other features from PoF were good.

I don't see that as a mistake. I see it as Anet listening to their customers and analyzing their data.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:lool, so they have MILLIONS of players there? okay, have fun with that then. if that was true, i doubt thay have had to lay all those people of

Another uninformed comment, I guess should be expected. The layoffs didn't happen because of Guild Wars 2 performance, but because the "unreleased" projects weren't deemed profitable by NCSoft. It was an issue with Arenanet as a company and projects we'll never get to see, and not about the game. As for your million comment I need to remind you that the game never had millions of players.

On top of that the layoffs happened after pof was released, an expac which was closer to core in difficulty

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@"battledrone.8315" said:

"commander, our soldiers are deserting, because we rearm the prisoners, they had just risked their lifes to capture"from a gaming perspective it would make sense, but it wouldnt make any sense at all from a logical perspectivewhen enemies are so dangerous, there usually ARE no prisoners. and any soldier would KILL anyone, who is trying to help the enemies

Eh, it would be super easy to circumvent this. The cheap and easy way out would be to have an asura work up some cop-out magitech simulator to cover all the combat types.

The other explanation would be that the prisoners are held securely and nobody has access to them in their armed state aside from the Commander. The rank and file soldiers would not be thrown against them, and security would be sensible (i.e. there wouldn't be armed Moredrem Snipers inside a flimsy cage that they can just fire at people from).

Also, why are you even here? Go play SWTOR already. I might reinstall it myself, it's been a while. I'm personally a huge fan of GSF there, it's one of the single most skill-balanced forms of pvp I've seen in any game.

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