The dagger of the necromancer is as slow as a snail

[huluobo.7036]

The speed of the warrior's dagger is very fast.Dagger design is very unfair professionallyThe rhythm of the necromancer's dagger is more like a staffI dare not use the dagger 1 skill in the face of warriorsToo stupid skills

[MementoMortis.4258]

Yeah, Necro Dagger has never been useful since launch. I'm completely stumped as to why they haven't really reworked it, EVER. I've been wanting to use my Incinerator on my Reaper since I got it but, there is just NO WAY to make it viable.

[KrHome.1920]

Buffs are hard to justify since they reworked dread. Quickness dagger has its niche and can be deadly on the right build.

[Teratus.2859]

I've mostly used it for lifestealing in PvE, I'd argue Dagger 2 is probably the best weapon healing skill in the game, rivaling that of someone of Necros other main heal skills.

But it's very, very finicky in PvP modes and unreliable as a result so it's definitely no good there, specially with it's low damage and lack of cleave.It can have some use in WvW though thanks to NPC's being around allowing you to make use of that D2 healing, allows you to turn trash mobs and enemy guards etc into your personal blood bags :)But there are still better weapons to pick over Dagger in WvW so it's more of a preference thing if you take it.PvE is where the weapon gets best use imo but even there it could use a powerup.

[Downstate.4697]

The base damage for the autos is higher than most if i remember correctly. Its very niche andBest utilized for well builds. Its immobilize is quite useful and dagger with quickness can be deadly.

[Majy.6792]

@Teratus.2859 said:I've mostly used it for lifestealing in PvE, I'd argue Dagger 2 is probably the best weapon healing skill in the game, rivaling that of someone of Necros other main heal skills.

But it's very, very finicky in PvP modes and unreliable as a result so it's definitely no good there, specially with it's low damage and lack of cleave.It can have some use in WvW though thanks to NPC's being around allowing you to make use of that D2 healing, allows you to turn trash mobs and enemy guards etc into your personal blood bags :)But there are still better weapons to pick over Dagger in WvW so it's more of a preference thing if you take it.PvE is where the weapon gets best use imo but even there it could use a powerup.

Short range makes it pretty useless though. Need to be face checking people for the drain, when necro really only survives taking advantage of range. Maybe some sort of bunker scourge but bunker is pretty dead. Support scourge does better with other main hands.

[Teratus.2859]

@Majy.6792 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:I've mostly used it for lifestealing in PvE, I'd argue Dagger 2 is probably the best weapon healing skill in the game, rivaling that of someone of Necros other main heal skills.

But it's very, very finicky in PvP modes and unreliable as a result so it's definitely no good there, specially with it's low damage and lack of cleave.It can have some use in WvW though thanks to NPC's being around allowing you to make use of that D2 healing, allows you to turn trash mobs and enemy guards etc into your personal blood bags :)But there are still better weapons to pick over Dagger in WvW so it's more of a preference thing if you take it.PvE is where the weapon gets best use imo but even there it could use a powerup.

Short range makes it pretty useless though. Need to be face checking people for the drain, when necro really only survives taking advantage of range. Maybe some sort of bunker scourge but bunker is pretty dead. Support scourge does better with other main hands.

Not quite.. the Drain has a 600 range which aint bad, same for Dark Pact which is 3sec immob and self bleed that buffs the healing of Life Siphon aswell.So it can be used effectively at range to recover quite a decent bit of health with only a 10 sec CD.

I use it as a main heal on some minion builds since it spares me from having to sacrifice the Blood Fiend and the healing/lifesteal it provides and I use it as a support heal on a few other builds too, usually paired with Warhorn because it has a great CC skill and the extra aoe damage/lifesteal on Locust Swarm can easily be taken advantage of with Daggers short range auto chain while you're waiting to swap sets again.

Though this all depends on the gamemode, being this is a pvp thread I agree the weapon is not great there for many reasons.Short range auto requires bulk to use effectively which means sacrificing offensive stats which the dagger needs to hit with any decent damage.The life siphon drain is far too easy to interupt thanks to Necros almost non-existent access to Stability while also being very easy to block or straight up evade making it very unreliable in competitive.And Dark Pact has one of the most obvious tells in the game due to it's long cast time, it's pretty much a "look at me im trying to immob you" skill so it's really hard to land.Plus the fact the weapon has no cleave.I really would go as far as to say the Necro Dagger in it's current state is more or less designed (intentionally or unintentionally) to be a PvE only weapon because of those issues.

[KrHome.1920]

@Majy.6792 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I've mostly used it for lifestealing in PvE, I'd argue Dagger 2 is probably the best weapon healing skill in the game, rivaling that of someone of Necros other main heal skills.

But it's very, very finicky in PvP modes and unreliable as a result so it's definitely no good there, specially with it's low damage and lack of cleave.It can have some use in WvW though thanks to NPC's being around allowing you to make use of that D2 healing, allows you to turn trash mobs and enemy guards etc into your personal blood bags :)But there are still better weapons to pick over Dagger in WvW so it's more of a preference thing if you take it.PvE is where the weapon gets best use imo but even there it could use a powerup.

Short range makes it pretty useless though. Need to be face checking people for the drain, when necro really only survives taking advantage of range. Maybe some sort of bunker scourge but bunker is pretty dead. Support scourge does better with other main hands.If you play a viable dagger build then you combine dagger/warhorn and axe/focus.

You are switching from axe2 to dagger2 to shroud to dagger2 to axe2 and so on ... all on 600 to 900 range and you can add some immobs and spinal shivers to slow your target. Don't underestimate that constant medium ranged channeled pressure esp. when quickness is active!

I run a spite blood reaper dagger/wh + axe/f build from time to time and it's viable and will also beat the meta reaper build in a 1v1.

@Teratus.2859 said:I really would go as far as to say the Necro Dagger in it's current state is more or less designed (intentionally or unintentionally) to be a PvE only weapon because of those issues.Quite the opposite. It only works if you spam dagger2, axe2, shroud, axe2, dagger2, shroud... That's still super low dps in pve but works well enough in pvp. Just don't try to pressure your target with the autoattack - that's pointless. This attack should only be used as a filler if your target is at melee range and holds back.

[Teratus.2859]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Majy.6792 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:I've mostly used it for lifestealing in PvE, I'd argue Dagger 2 is probably the best weapon healing skill in the game, rivaling that of someone of Necros other main heal skills.

But it's very, very finicky in PvP modes and unreliable as a result so it's definitely no good there, specially with it's low damage and lack of cleave.It can have some use in WvW though thanks to NPC's being around allowing you to make use of that D2 healing, allows you to turn trash mobs and enemy guards etc into your personal blood bags :)But there are still better weapons to pick over Dagger in WvW so it's more of a preference thing if you take it.PvE is where the weapon gets best use imo but even there it could use a powerup.

Short range makes it pretty useless though. Need to be face checking people for the drain, when necro really only survives taking advantage of range. Maybe some sort of bunker scourge but bunker is pretty dead. Support scourge does better with other main hands.If you play a viable dagger build then you combine dagger/warhorn and axe/focus.

You are switching from axe2 to dagger2 to shroud to dagger2 to axe2 and so on ... all on 600 to 900 range and you can add some immobs and spinal shivers to slow your target. Don't underestimate that constant medium ranged channeled pressure esp. when quickness is active!

I run a spite blood reaper dagger/wh + axe/f build from time to time and it's viable and will also beat the meta reaper build in a 1v1.

@Teratus.2859 said:I really would go as far as to say the Necro Dagger in it's current state is more or less designed (intentionally or unintentionally) to be a PvE only weapon because of those issues.Quite the opposite. It only works if you spam dagger2, axe2, shroud, axe2, dagger2, shroud... That's still super low dps in pve but works well enough in pvp. Just don't try to pressure your target with the autoattack - that's pointless. This attack should only be used as a filler if your target is at melee range and holds back.

I guess I could see the pressure you're talking about there for PvP though i've never used that combo myself.Dagger does have low DPS in PvE which is where I mostly use it, even with a glass canon build it's damage is pretty garbage.That's more or less why I think of it more as a support weapon for the heal factor rather than a viable DPS weapon.Mostly I run D/WH along side a Greatsword since I mostly play Reapers in PvE, not a big fan of scourge tbh.. Anet dun stole my Shroud!! lol

[Sneakers.8462]

Necromancer Dagger has some really interesting combinations which I believe can be extremely viable. I think it is most useful on Scourge.

Lets look at Dagger 3, Dark Pact. It immobilizes your target, corrupts 1 boon and causes self bleeding. This can combo with all your shades, wells and Ghastly Breach to apply significant node pressure during a teamfight. You could also combo this pre game with Signet of Undeath as you would be able to generate life force due to the self bleeding effect. The corrupt could also help with the Scourge trait, Feed from Corruption.

Dagger 2 is an excellent secondary heal. Combine this with Dark Pact's self bleed for 20% extra heal and a further 10% if you are running Vital Persistence from the Soul Reaping trait line. Combine this with the Signet of the Locust and you have a lot of self sustain at your disposal!

Dagger auto attacks aren't great I agree, but I think that is acceptable due to the utility of the other 2 skills. That's my thoughts on Necromancer Dagger skills anyway :)

[Dantheman.3589]

It might be useful if the dagger trait wasn’t completely useless. But I don’t think anything else is wrong with the weapon. Ppl don’t play it on scourge becuz axe is just better for condition corrupt and dpsing, which it can do from a range. Only advantage might be that u get life force from dagger autos, but they won’t be usable on scourge because you don’t wanna get in ppls face and the dagger 2 u wanna keep off cd for the heal so you cannot use that either. Weapons fine just not useful in pvp atm- bad damage, not enough boon corrupt and not enough sustain to warrant tanking ppl in melee range.

[Zephoid.4263]

imo, make dagger's role lifeforce stacking. Increase the auto's lifeforce gain and you give it a role. Not every weapon needs to burst damage.

[Flumek.9043]

@"huluobo.7036" said:The speed of the warrior's dagger is very fast.Dagger design is very unfair professionallyThe rhythm of the necromancer's dagger is more like a staffI dare not use the dagger 1 skill in the face of warriorsToo stupid skills

A bit after HOT, they buffed thief dagger to deal with broken OP revenant.

Its about a 20% slower animation, and ofc when they copypasted warrior to get dagger - they used the smoother thief one :)

Given that necro didnt get the animation update in last dagger "soft rework" , and reaper quickness is a bandaid so less poeple cry about, it probably wont ever happen.