Should rifle be reworked into a shotgun?

[Tycura.1982]

It's popped up enough that I think it deserves it's own thread. Hopefully this can gain more attention and traction.

[Blocki.4931]

I think that would be really fun. The range gimmick doesn't really work out the way it is done right now. Either one shot or nothing is boring, a shotgun could be a really dangerous close range thing that actually has some merit on top.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

There are currently three classes that can utilize a Rifle: Engineer, Thief and Warrior.

Engineer is played like a shotgun, but not really powerful.Warrior is played like a normal rifle, great damage and skills compared to the Engineer rifle.Thief is played like a sniper-rifle, it is an elite-specialization weapon, obviously more powerful than the other two.

Your rifle is fine. It is not as powerful as the Greatsword, but for a ranged weapon of a melee-class, it performs better than many others.

On the other hand, you are the guys who want Discipline become baseline, so you can pick a 4th traitline. So I guess that shotgun you ask for has to hit like the GS, 2k range and auto-attack fire rate like ranger rapid shot?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I was ambivalent before, but after the discussion in the other thread I see emmense possibilities. The damage and vuln stacks would have to stay the same though, the damage is already rather low. And you'd need a new F1.

[Kodama.6453]

That's supposed to be the thematic of engineer's rifle.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Kodama.6453 said:That's supposed to be the thematic of engineer's rifle.

To be fair engi rifle is a grab bag of w.t.f.

[Smoosh.2718]

@Kodama.6453 said:That's supposed to be the thematic of engineer's rifle.

Engi rifle is.... uhm.. its.. a thing. But it for sure is not a shotgun, it has one shot that couild be called 'shotgun like'.

Shotgun fits the theme of the warrior, you're rushing in with a shotgun aiming to cause AoE damage to targets infront of you, causing higher damage the closer the target is. (please note that range weapons will never and should be to the same damage level of melee), so I do not expect the damage to be to that of GS levels.

[Taril.8619]

Make rifle a Shotgun and have it so that Warrior has a total of 0 ranged weapons?

Nah.

If they reworked Longbow, it could be Warrior's "Shotgun", given that Fan of Fire already functions that way as its best used up close because cone of arrows...

Just rework Arcing Trash into something mechanically similar to Scorched Earth. Reduce Pin Down's CD and give it scaling effects so max duration happens up close.

Voila "Shotgun"

[Kodama.6453]

@Smoosh.2718 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:That's supposed to be the thematic of engineer's rifle.

Engi rifle is.... uhm.. its.. a thing. But it for sure is not a shotgun, it has one shot that couild be called 'shotgun like'.

Shotgun fits the theme of the warrior, you're rushing in with a shotgun aiming to cause AoE damage to targets infront of you, causing higher damage the closer the target is. (please note that range weapons will never and should be to the same damage level of melee), so I do not expect the damage to be to that of GS levels.

Blunderbuss is literally what you described here: dealing AoE damage in a cone in front of you. And it is the main damage skill for engineer's rifle, together with jump shot.

Obviously, they can't make all skills in a skillset be "deal damage in a cone". Hence why they gave other abilities to engineer, like overcharged shot, jump shot, etc. But engineer's rifle is still supposed to be the shotgun archetype in this game, deadeye's rifle is the sniper archetype and warrior fills the "assault rifle" theme.

We should stick with that. Would kinda suck for engineers if warriors get a rework that makes their rifle "a better version of the engineer rifle".They should probably improve both engineer and warrior rifle, but they should keep the shotgun theme for engineers.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Smoosh.2718 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:That's supposed to be the thematic of engineer's rifle.

Engi rifle is.... uhm.. its.. a thing. But it for sure is not a shotgun, it has one shot that couild be called 'shotgun like'.

Shotgun fits the theme of the warrior, you're rushing in with a shotgun aiming to cause AoE damage to targets infront of you, causing higher damage the closer the target is. (please note that range weapons will never and should be to the same damage level of melee), so I do not expect the damage to be to that of GS levels.

Blunderbuss is literally what you described here: dealing AoE damage in a cone in front of you. And it is the main damage skill for engineer's rifle, together with jump shot.1 of 5 a shotgun it does not make.Obviously, they can't make all skills in a skillset be "deal damage in a cone". Hence why they gave other abilities to engineer, like overcharged shot, jump shot, etc. But engineer's rifle is still supposed to be the shotgun archetype in this game, deadeye's rifle is the sniper archetype and warrior fills the "assault rifle" theme.Obviously they can make all the skills of a weapon do one gimmick, just look at Necro Staff.We should stick with that. Would kinda suck for engineers if warriors get a rework that makes their rifle "a better version of the engineer rifle".They should probably improve both engineer and warrior rifle, but they should keep the shotgun theme for engineers.

Or you can go to the Engineer forums and ask the hive mind there come up with ideas to make core Engi weapons not suck and let the warrior hive mind do the same here. Lord knows that both pistol/pistol and rifle on Engi could use some love.

[KIIIL.1860]

The warrior is pretty boring and I say YES to any change in him

[Kodama.6453]

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Obviously they can make all the skills of a weapon do one gimmick, just look at Necro Staff.

They are all marks, but they do very different stuff.What different effects would you put on cone attacks themed for shotguns? Damage, maybe a knockback.... and what else?

I don't see a class like warrior having so much variation with different cone attacks as long as it should stay coherent with warriors thematics.

Or you can go to the Engineer forums and ask the hive mind there come up with ideas to make core Engi weapons not suck and let the warrior hive mind do the same here. Lord knows that both pistol/pistol and rifle on Engi could use some love.

I didn't forbid anyone to discuss the topic here, did I? I am just voicing my own opinion that warriors shouldn't get a shotgun rifle, since that is supposed to be engineers thematical niche. If "the engineer hive mind" would suggest to change their rifle to a sniper rifle to improve it, I would also disagree with that, since the sniper thematic is given to deadeye and in my opinion it should stay that way.

I prefer having different types of rifles represented in this game fitting for the class wielding it. Sniper rifle makes alot of sense on thief and in my opinion so does an assault rifle or warrior.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Obviously they can make all the skills of a weapon do one gimmick, just look at Necro Staff.

They are all marks, but they do very different stuff.What different effects would you put on cone attacks themed for shotguns? Damage, maybe a knockback.... and what else?I don't see a class like warrior having so much variation with different cone attacks as long as it should stay coherent with warriors thematics.What was discuss in the other thread was just to change the current skills from 1200 range projectiles to 600 range cones, so same effects just on more targets. This would specialize the weapon into an aoe vulnerability, cripple, and immobilize weapon with a main dps skill. Several new F1s were floated ranging from a pulsing torment field to a cone based daze. Less of a damage weapon and more of a harassment weapon for helping in a 1vX or XvX fight.

Or you can go to the Engineer forums and ask the hive mind there come up with ideas to make core Engi weapons not suck and let the warrior hive mind do the same here. Lord knows that both pistol/pistol and rifle on Engi could use some love.

I didn't forbid anyone to discuss the topic here, did I? I am just voicing my own opinion that warriors shouldn't get a shotgun rifle, since that is supposed to be engineers thematical niche. If "the engineer hive mind" would suggest to change their rifle to a sniper rifle to improve it, I would also disagree with that, since the sniper thematic is given to deadeye and in my opinion it should stay that way.You are free to your own opinion Kodama. I have no qualms or sticking points on whether each class has a claim to a unique theme on any said weapon or skill type. If the engis come together and wanted a real ranged MH weapon for core that wasn't a kit and came up with a thematic long range rifle for the class then all the power to them.I prefer having different types of rifles represented in this game fitting for the class wielding it. Sniper rifle makes alot of sense on thief and in my opinion so does an assault rifle or warrior.I prefer warrior rifle to actually be viable. Its either give it a dps boost across the board for it to really be an assault rifle like you claim, at which point it would hardly be different to Ranger LB, or realize that the current damage stinks on it, and it would be better served as an aoe offensive support weapon, by which I mean aoe cripple, aoe immob, and aoe vuln.

For what it is worth, I hate how they did Engi rifle, it certainly does not feel like a shotgun to me, but more of a mad scientist's contraption full of weird abilities that somehow beyond imagination seem to work in concert.

[Smoosh.2718]

I'll just copy my post from the other topic to this one.

@Smoosh.2718 said:My take on a Rifle > Shotgun rework.

Skills should function like different ammo types

[ Skill 1] Buck shot Cone AOE 600 range causes physical damage.[ Skill 2 ] Pirana round Cone AOE 600 range causing tacks to stay on the ground for 3 seconds causing cripple.[ Skill 3 ] Dragons breath Cone AOE 600 range causing blind and high damage, revealing any target caught in the AOE.[ Skill 4 ] Evasive Slug Dodge backwards 300 and then fire a 1000 range slug shot causing high single target damage.[ Skill 5 ] Point Buck Shot Cone AOE 450 range causes the targets to be knocked back.

[ BURST] Full unload Cone AOE 600 range, unload a variety of 7 shells causing cripple, vulnerability and weakness .T1 Medium damage, 2s cripple, 5 vulnerability, 2s weakness.T2 Medium damage, 3s cripple, 10 vulnerability, 3s weakness.T3 high damage, 4s cripple, 15 vulnerability, 4s weakness.

[Kodama.6453]

@Smoosh.2718 said:I'll just copy my post from the other topic to this one.

@Smoosh.2718 said:My take on a Rifle > Shotgun rework.

Skills should function like different ammo types

[ Skill 1] Buck shot Cone AOE 600 range causes physical damage.[ Skill 2 ] Pirana round Cone AOE 600 range causing tacks to stay on the ground for 3 seconds causing cripple.[ Skill 3 ] Dragons breath Cone AOE 600 range causing blind and high damage, revealing any target caught in the AOE.[ Skill 4 ] Evasive Slug Dodge backwards 300 and then fire a 1000 range slug shot causing high single target damage.[ Skill 5 ] Point Buck Shot Cone AOE 450 range causes the targets to be knocked back.

[ BURST] Full unload Cone AOE 600 range, unload a variety of 7 shells causing cripple, vulnerability and weakness .T1 Medium damage, 2s cripple, 5 vulnerability, 2s weakness.T2 Medium damage, 3s cripple, 10 vulnerability, 3s weakness.T3 high damage, 4s cripple, 15 vulnerability, 4s weakness.

These names sound more like a rifle for ranger than for warrior.

[Smoosh.2718]

@Kodama.6453 said:These names sound more like a rifle for ranger than for warrior.

Those names are actual shotgun shell names.

[Kodama.6453]

@Smoosh.2718 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:These names sound more like a rifle for ranger than for warrior.

Those names are actual shotgun shell names.

All fine and dandy, but having so many animal references in skill names still makes it sound more fitting for ranger.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Smoosh.2718 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:These names sound more like a rifle for ranger than for warrior.

Those names are actual shotgun shell names.

All fine and dandy, but having so many animal references in skill names still makes it sound more fitting for ranger.

Not wrong. And honestly I'm surprised that ranger HASN'T gotten a rifle yet.

[Smoosh.2718]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Not wrong. And honestly I'm surprised that ranger HASN'T gotten a rifle yet.

But doesnt that mean... the Ranger will just give people tickets and say they cant camp here?!

[Kodama.6453]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Smoosh.2718 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:These names sound more like a rifle for ranger than for warrior.

Those names are actual shotgun shell names.

All fine and dandy, but having so many animal references in skill names still makes it sound more fitting for ranger.

Not wrong. And honestly I'm surprised that ranger HASN'T gotten a rifle yet.

Probably because of thematical reasons.

Modern firearms like pistols and rifles are oftenly associated with industrial revolution, which is also oftenly associated with being destructive towards nature. Rangers are supposed to be one with nature, so Anet most likely wanted to avoid giving them "technological" weapons.

[Lighter.5631]

if you ask me, longbow is already a shotgun, that's why gs/lb hambow was a thing both power build...longbow play most effective in melee range...literally all skills except 5 is most effective in melee range and f1 encourages you to play on it's AoE

what rifle need is cast time removed from 4 and maybe an AoE skill, maybe remove 2 and move vulneralbility to 3 and make 2 an AoE cripple with throw nade like animation.