No more pocket heals

[intox.6347]

problem is group of 12 with 50/50 healers to dps ratio.... really hard to do something....

met a gang party and it looks like 7 healers 3 dps ... met them with some pugs and cant do shit... focused one... downed him .... ressed asap and continue.... neverending fight...

[lare.5129]

so skilled 5 player versus 20 non skilled.Something wrong? Don't think so.Choose proper biuld, class, and tactic is one of part of skill.

[lare.5129]

I just want to see a some heal boost. On all prev games I can up hp from 1 % to 100% by one click .. here I need spam more than 1 button

[Strider.7849]

@Phyxrgon.7305 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:I wanna know how 20 people can't out DPS one person's sustain?

I want to know that too...

Basically a press 1 and never dodge army vs 5 people that co-ordinator attacks together and build for outnumbered fights.

[LetoII.3782]

@Doug.4930 said:I think OP shot themselves in the foot by using an example that's greatly exaggerated.

But that doesn't detract from the fact that minstrel support pocket healers do provide way too much to any squad that they are apart off. Roaming/small scale/large scale. Too many heals, too many cleanses and too many boons.

No other build can so drastically affect the outcome of a fight than a pocket minstrel support build that's played with even a semblance of mediocrity.

Well, yeah.Kinda hard to go from 3 actions to 24 without some power creep, not much to be done about it now except bring your own stabobot.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I had that issue til I rolled what I co main now in WvW. Now they typically get deleted

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

if 5 ppl can sustain 20, it is the fault of the 20 for not having any plan of the game, that number relation is nearly an art to mess up. it can go easy that way, if you suicide in wave into their bombs and really them ten times from downed state.

guess at least TE will like this week? lmfao

"too big healing" is really not a problem of current Wvw, heck...

[DeceiverX.8361]

@LetoII.3782 said:19 people attacking the ground in front of their feet and one OP wondering how they're doing less damage than him.

Get shadowplay, record a fight. People doing absolutely nothing is abysmally common in this game.

Its so common that Anet made scourge so people could win by standing next to an opponent.

It's why I surf zergs and rarely get punished once breaching the commander. The small groups are almost always much deadlier because the focus fire happens instantly.

I don't think there's an issue with the healing so much as how difficult it is these days to actually kill a healer, between kits like Minstrel's and the expansion content providing what feels like an endless supply of sustain and burst resistance to builds which were originally supposed to be good at dealing with them.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Alec B.8905 said:I just want to see a change to pocket healers in WvW, I just dislike how bad it looks when 1 pocket healer can guard a 5 man party from a 20 man pug group. I just want to see reduced values so this doesn't happen.(keep it civil)

Minstrels gear should not exist. ZERO offensive stat armor, thus a completely passive character that does ZERO damage goes against the entire design philosophy of not only every class, but the entire game.

[Obtena.7952]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Alec B.8905 said:I just want to see a change to pocket healers in WvW, I just dislike how bad it looks when 1 pocket healer can guard a 5 man party from a 20 man pug group. I just want to see reduced values so this doesn't happen.(keep it civil)

Minstrels gear should not exist. ZERO offensive stat armor, thus a completely passive character that does ZERO damage goes against the entire design philosophy of not only every class, but the entire game.

Yet the fact we have it proves you wrong. The problem here isn't the pocket healers, that's for sure ... it's bad players.

[LadyHawk.5319]

Once again we have a situation where someone can't be beaten and it is automatically the healer's fault. For kitten's sake, take your blinders off and get the bigger picture. Does the healer play a role? Yes. But the class, build, skill of the other 4 players (in said OP example) plays a bigger role.

Additionally, we all have to remember that WvW provides competitive game play for three basic styles of pvp play: Solo, Havoc, Zerg. Although players can also play sPvP, WvW is the only place where we can play havoc and zerg style pvp. One is not better or worse than the other. They are different, each co-exisiting in one game mode. This is, when you think about it, rather hard to keep in balance ... if possible at all. So, if you are a Solo player, you may see zerg gear and disagree with it, e.g., Minstrels gear. It doesn't mean that Minstrels gear is wrong just because it doesn't suit your play style. If you are havoc, you may disagree with having a FB and a scrapper/tempest per party. Well, for a havoc group you don't want that, but for a zerg you sure as hell do! Just keep this in mind the next time you feel someone else's comp/class/gear is unfair. Take a moment and ask yourself if you are applying your idea of "fairness" to just your style of play.

[ASP.8093]

You know late night when EBG kinda "congeals" because every side has like 5-15 people so it's hard to push past each other's defenses, and you just end up with a constant rolling skirmish in front of a tower or by one of the sentries next to SMC or whatever? I got into a situation like that last week, and the enemy side had a support Firebrand spamming heals and reflects, as well as several players doing stealth-res thanks to thief/engie/mes abilities. That certainly made their group stronger than a collection of random roaming builds. So, like, I tried, on purpose, to "crack" them -- focus the FB just enough to get him to panic and then switch targets when he's out of position, dump poison on every down, call out the enemies' builds and capabilities in /say chat when you notice particular issues like they got two Dragonhunters trying to lure you into instant death. Nothing too clever, just enough teamwork to counter their teamwork. And, idk, it worked. The enemy team got less and less confident over the course of about 20 minutes, gave ground constantly, stopped getting free kills off our side.

You can very much outplay and outpressure a "pocket healer," especially in your example of 20-on-5.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"ASP.8093" said:You can very much outplay and outpressure a "pocket healer," especially in your example of 20-on-5.Except those 5 are rarely running against 20, they're running against 5-10 random pugs (or often just 1 or 2) or they are running away.

I see guilds have adapted well to no down state week now. Engaged a group of 5 this evening that literally had 4 firebrands run after a reaper doing nothing but healing him. Engaged a 50 man zerg as well that consisted of mostly firebrands just to heal through anything, lol.

[ASP.8093]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"ASP.8093" said:You

can

very much outplay and outpressure a "pocket healer," especially in your example of 20-on-5.Except those 5 are rarely running against 20, they're running against 5-10 random pugs (or often just 1 or 2) or they are running away.

I see guilds have adapted well to no down state week now. Engaged a group of 5 this evening that literally had 4 firebrands run after a reaper doing nothing but healing him. Engaged a 50 man zerg as well that consisted of mostly firebrands just to heal through anything, lol.

I agree that there's definitely a threshold where it gets stupid. And, unfortunately, a lot of nerfs you can apply to support classes would just lead to players fielding even more supports. I'd like to see more abilities that specifically counter support/mitigation builds, though I fear actually implementing that will be a mess because there's no clear separation between personal and group-oriented defensive mechanics.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

As someone who exclusivly plays support with focus on healing.

I want that build! Gimme!