Nerf Thief

mortrialus.3062 · August 20, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:for tif to die they have to overextend as kitten, and when they disengage and have to run into another person to actually finish them off.

Thief has been throughout the entire history of the game been the single hardest thing in the game to secure a kill against. Once you get to a certain skill level you just shouldn't be dying, ever. You have the tools to only take advantageous fights you'll win and the tools to escape bad fights better than literally anything else.

Shiyo.3578 · August 21, 2020

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:for tif to die they have to overextend as kitten, and when they disengage and have to run into another person to actually finish them off.

Thief has been throughout the entire history of the game been the single hardest thing in the game to secure a kill against. Once you get to a certain skill level you just shouldn't be dying, ever. You have the tools to only take advantageous fights you'll win and the tools to escape bad fights better than literally anything else.

Which would be fine if thief had 0 capability to kill anyone unless the person starts at 20% hp with zero cds. Yet, a thief has the advantage in 1v1 against tons of builds and literally farms mesmers for free.

If you're this mobile and slippery with stealth, you need to be utterly useless at 1v1. Current thief is not.

Classes/Builds you can't play due to thief existing:MesmerDPS Ele

Psycoprophet.8107 · August 22, 2020

@Shiyo.3578 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:for tif to die they have to overextend as kitten, and when they disengage and have to run into another person to actually finish them off.

Thief has been throughout the entire history of the game been the single hardest thing in the game to secure a kill against. Once you get to a certain skill level you just shouldn't be dying, ever. You have the tools to only take advantageous fights you'll win and the tools to escape bad fights better than literally anything else.

Which would be fine if thief had 0 capability to kill anyone unless the person starts at 20% hp with zero cds. Yet, a thief has the advantage in 1v1 against tons of builds and literally farms mesmers for free.

If you're this mobile and slippery with stealth, you need to be utterly useless at 1v1. Current thief is not.

Classes/Builds you can't play due to thief existing:MesmerDPS Ele

Who made u the defacto if a class has mobility it cant hit hard and needs to be useless in 1v1 bossman. Seriously u ok? Are u new to mmo's and every rpg with rogue's archetypes in them? U little whiners should consider ourselves lucky as in most mmo's rogues are the stealthy, slippery classes and guess what, they are burst classes that spike hard and run. If I run a power build in conquest zerks and divinity I'm still lucky to get 6k+ backstabs and usually its 4k and that's using all my resources to hit and ur fooling no one if u try and say that even tickles the sustain of most classes. Other then meaner and warrior no class or common run build should lose to a thief, if u do that thief was just far better than u. Guards counter thief, ranger hahaha yeah 1v1 ranger vs thief hmmm or holo vs lmao or maybe necro vs thief... nope yeah thief is a 1v1 power house all right. Wth is with these forums, now ur complaing about thee worst 1v1 spec stating that it's in fact to good lmao. I just cant lol.

Teb.6980 · August 22, 2020

no kidding it's a thing with condi thief specifically that one can die in a single 1 second disable

NotFound.7813 · August 22, 2020

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@Shiyo.3578 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:for tif to die they have to overextend as kitten, and when they disengage and have to run into another person to actually finish them off.

Thief has been throughout the entire history of the game been the single hardest thing in the game to secure a kill against. Once you get to a certain skill level you just shouldn't be dying, ever. You have the tools to only take advantageous fights you'll win and the tools to escape bad fights better than literally anything else.

Which would be fine if thief had 0 capability to kill anyone unless the person starts at 20% hp with zero cds. Yet, a thief has the advantage in 1v1 against tons of builds and literally farms mesmers for free.

If you're this mobile and slippery with stealth, you need to be utterly useless at 1v1. Current thief is not.

Classes/Builds you can't play due to thief existing:MesmerDPS Ele

Who made u the defacto if a class has mobility it cant hit hard and needs to be useless in 1v1 bossman. Seriously u ok? Are u new to mmo's and every rpg with rogue's archetypes in them? U little whiners should consider ourselves lucky as in most mmo's rogues are the stealthy, slippery classes and guess what, they are burst classes that spike hard and run. If I run a power build in conquest zerks and divinity I'm still lucky to get 6k+ backstabs and usually its 4k and that's using all my resources to hit and ur fooling no one if u try and say that even tickles the sustain of most classes. Other then meaner and warrior no class or common run build should lose to a thief, if u do that thief was just far better than u. Guards counter thief, ranger hahaha yeah 1v1 ranger vs thief hmmm or holo vs lmao or maybe necro vs thief... nope yeah thief is a 1v1 power house all right. Wth is with these forums, now ur complaing about thee worst 1v1 spec stating that it's in fact to good lmao. I just cant lol.

I think hes talking abut condi thief but anyway cthief shouldnt be able to win a 1v1 with full cds

NotFound.7813 · August 22, 2020

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:for tif to die they have to overextend as kitten, and when they disengage and have to run into another person to actually finish them off.

Thief has been throughout the entire history of the game been the single hardest thing in the game to secure a kill against. Once you get to a certain skill level you just shouldn't be dying, ever. You have the tools to only take advantageous fights you'll win and the tools to escape bad fights better than literally anything else.

I dont think thats a problem when it comes to especifically thief role , also disengaging a fight means u lost it so .

NotFound.7813 · August 22, 2020

@KrHome.1920 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:For most thieves such a build is not an option because only a thief build with unlimited escapes at any time of the fight is a good thief build to them. And if such a build lacks damage (which is 100% balanced and how it should be!), then the whole class is trash.

I think it's less this and more "If a thief does this and is hit by almost any skill half of its HP bar will magically disappear." Having limited escapes is fine, but all the damage in the world means very little if someone can sneeze on you and knock you over. Building to give up some of that omegadamage for sustain often results in wet noodling, however. Neither extreme is enjoyable. Another look needs to be taken at what duelist should look like for thief, if devs actually want that option on the table.

This^ on top of thiefs Lower hp it's not designed like other classes to be able to use their defensive weapon skills and utilities to stay in a fight for long periods, add that other classes burst as hard as teef and can't stay in the fight longer due to their design to add more damage and the thief is at a huge disadvantage.When u start hearing some of the top thieves saying their having trouble even doing enough damage when +1'ing for their teamates what hope would they have in a 1v1 lol.Every single thief weapon has

an evasion skill or
a leap or
a teleport or
a self-stealth or
even several of the named at once

You can get away with offensive traits and offensive utility skills.

I think you are confusing

"can stand in aoe for some time" (difficult for thief) with
"fight presence" (not so difficult, just no meta build uses the tools the class definitely has).

I've played thief for 3000 hours. You can build for any purpose. My personal problem with the class is that it's either weak in damage but unkillable (boring) or one-dimensional (also boring as you are basically using 4 or 5 skills during the whole fight). That's why my thief playtime dropped hard. It feels always dumb and misplaced in the general fight mechanic. Both elite specs did even make it worse.

Cuz thief skill is about rupting big cds like blocks glyphs etc doing great rotations or stealthing teammates

If thief is boring and nearly unkillable is cuz anet nerfed deadly arts making shadow arts not a big dmg drop, without deadly arts nerf i pretty much think only bad thieves would run shadow arts

Psycoprophet.8107 · August 22, 2020

@wevh.2903 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@Shiyo.3578 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:for tif to die they have to overextend as kitten, and when they disengage and have to run into another person to actually finish them off.

Thief has been throughout the entire history of the game been the single hardest thing in the game to secure a kill against. Once you get to a certain skill level you just shouldn't be dying, ever. You have the tools to only take advantageous fights you'll win and the tools to escape bad fights better than literally anything else.

Which would be fine if thief had 0 capability to kill anyone unless the person starts at 20% hp with zero cds. Yet, a thief has the advantage in 1v1 against tons of builds and literally farms mesmers for free.

If you're this mobile and slippery with stealth, you need to be utterly useless at 1v1. Current thief is not.

Classes/Builds you can't play due to thief existing:MesmerDPS Ele

Who made u the defacto if a class has mobility it cant hit hard and needs to be useless in 1v1 bossman. Seriously u ok? Are u new to mmo's and every rpg with rogue's archetypes in them? U little whiners should consider ourselves lucky as in most mmo's rogues are the stealthy, slippery classes and guess what, they are burst classes that spike hard and run. If I run a power build in conquest zerks and divinity I'm still lucky to get 6k+ backstabs and usually its 4k and that's using all my resources to hit and ur fooling no one if u try and say that even tickles the sustain of most classes. Other then meaner and warrior no class or common run build should lose to a thief, if u do that thief was just far better than u. Guards counter thief, ranger hahaha yeah 1v1 ranger vs thief hmmm or holo vs lmao or maybe necro vs thief... nope yeah thief is a 1v1 power house all right. Wth is with these forums, now ur complaing about thee worst 1v1 spec stating that it's in fact to good lmao. I just cant lol.

I think hes talking abut condi thief but anyway cthief shouldnt be able to win a 1v1 with full cds

Sure it should to classes that are running builds that aren't great vs condo, no class should ever be designed to never win 1v1 under any circumstances, that's just stupid.These post are literally biased complaining from players that simply don't like teef, plain and simple, always been this way vs rogue archetype and always will. U useless version of teef will never happen so accept it. That said u are right it shouldn't be able to 1v1 and have all its cd's or ini left at fights end cuz that would mean its god mode broken but I've never won a fight without denying my ini or resources even on cteef. I do think cteef is a bit to strong but that's cuz poison and burns are to strong. Both those need shaves as any builds that can quickly stack and reapply those 2 condi's end up bursting far more then they should.

Sheltia.7253 · August 22, 2020

dont know about thief but those reapers so cheat that dont wanna play pvp anymore ,they heal all time have alot dots and so high damage==> all time lose so here so broken balance omg

Sheltia.7253 · August 22, 2020

@dsfgdfghfg.4527 said:dont know about thief but those reapers so cheat that dont wanna play pvp anymore ,they heal all time have alot dots and so high damage==> all time lose so here so broken balance omg

so i just quit so broken pvp rip here ,pve alot better

NotFound.7813 · August 22, 2020

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@Shiyo.3578 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:for tif to die they have to overextend as kitten, and when they disengage and have to run into another person to actually finish them off.

Thief has been throughout the entire history of the game been the single hardest thing in the game to secure a kill against. Once you get to a certain skill level you just shouldn't be dying, ever. You have the tools to only take advantageous fights you'll win and the tools to escape bad fights better than literally anything else.

Which would be fine if thief had 0 capability to kill anyone unless the person starts at 20% hp with zero cds. Yet, a thief has the advantage in 1v1 against tons of builds and literally farms mesmers for free.

If you're this mobile and slippery with stealth, you need to be utterly useless at 1v1. Current thief is not.

Classes/Builds you can't play due to thief existing:MesmerDPS Ele

Who made u the defacto if a class has mobility it cant hit hard and needs to be useless in 1v1 bossman. Seriously u ok? Are u new to mmo's and every rpg with rogue's archetypes in them? U little whiners should consider ourselves lucky as in most mmo's rogues are the stealthy, slippery classes and guess what, they are burst classes that spike hard and run. If I run a power build in conquest zerks and divinity I'm still lucky to get 6k+ backstabs and usually its 4k and that's using all my resources to hit and ur fooling no one if u try and say that even tickles the sustain of most classes. Other then meaner and warrior no class or common run build should lose to a thief, if u do that thief was just far better than u. Guards counter thief, ranger hahaha yeah 1v1 ranger vs thief hmmm or holo vs lmao or maybe necro vs thief... nope yeah thief is a 1v1 power house all right. Wth is with these forums, now ur complaing about thee worst 1v1 spec stating that it's in fact to good lmao. I just cant lol.

I think hes talking abut condi thief but anyway cthief shouldnt be able to win a 1v1 with full cds

Sure it should to classes that are running builds that aren't great vs condo, no class should ever be designed to never win 1v1 under any circumstances, that's just stupid.These post are literally biased complaining from players that simply don't like teef, plain and simple, always been this way vs rogue archetype and always will. U useless version of teef will never happen so accept it. That said u are right it shouldn't be able to 1v1 and have all its cd's or ini left at fights end cuz that would mean its god mode broken but I've never won a fight without denying my ini or resources even on cteef. I do think cteef is a bit to strong but that's cuz poison and burns are to strong. Both those need shaves as any builds that can quickly stack and reapply those 2 condi's end up bursting far more then they should.

Dont get my wrong , im saying cthief cant right now 1v1 meta sidenoders , also there r situations where a very good thief can win a 1v1 but right now the normal thing is thief cant 1v1 . Before february thief spikes was way to high with core dp build but right now i think thief is perfectly balanced , idk maybe cthief makes lot of ppl cry so nerf it idc at all

Psycoprophet.8107 · August 22, 2020

@wevh.2903 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@wevh.2903 said:
@Psycoprophet.8107 said:
@Shiyo.3578 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:for tif to die they have to overextend as kitten, and when they disengage and have to run into another person to actually finish them off.