Why bother designing something nobody will craft? Can anyone explain it to me?

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:If it was meant to be achievable by a decent percentage of the players, they could have just made the recipe for the forge 1 x Shard, 1x ecto, 1 x sand, 1 x thermo and that's it. Make that 500 times. Which would have been fine. And hundreds of people could have made it by now.

But no, they put 25,000 shards, 10,000 ectos + other stuff. If it's only meant for the whales, then RNG is perfectly acceptable. There is no guarantee that you will get the item. If people are going to work towards this over time, years, then the meta will need to be completed hundreds of thousands of times and the rate of which is only going to go down over time. For every infusion made, you need around 500 metas completed and for those people to sell the Shards. There will be a ton of people who start this, then never complete it.

Come on, you're not seriously comparing an infusion to a Legendary? Legendary gear offers the greatest QoL improvement in the game for those that like to change builds frequently, this is their real inherent value. Unlike an infusion or a skin which provides nothing.

Well, those numbers are those from GW2 Efficiency and they are the best metrics we have. If anything, I'd say that the number is even greater because gw2efficiency is more skewed to the hardcore players. My point though was not that people only have ever had 100g in the entirity of their play time, but those who only have such levels would

never

undertake the process of crafting this infusion regardless of the long term goal aspect, its just

too

far away.

Yes, I

would

compare the aura infusions to legendaries. Because like legendaries, the only thing they add compared to other top stat items of that type (in this case 9/5 infusions) is special cosmetics. And whether they are RNG or crafted, their expenses are as great as legendaries.

Aura infusions are the legendaries of infusions.

One

could

argue that they're more of ascended infusions, but until we get infusions that freely stat change, I'll hold my argument here. And I wouldn't be surprised that certain aura infusions like the Frost Legion Infusion is given a Mystic Forge recipe to gain stat-changing abilities like the WvW and PvP legendary armor.

They're not meant to be achievable by a decent percentage of players, they're meant to be achievable by those who put time and effort into getting it.

I guess I must be the only one who makes legendary weapons and armor for the stat swap ability then because I've made like 28 legendary items and none of them have the legendary skins. Except Nevermore. It's... Nevermore. The expense of an item does not make it comparable to a BiS item that has stat swapping ability. The rarity of the RNG ones is what gives them value (for some) its got nothing to do with the look of the item itself. This is the opposite of legendary weapons. Look at the least popular legendary weapons on the TP, their look determines their value. With infusions, its the rarity and only within that rarity group are they then ranked by price.

Aura infusions are not the legendaries of infusions, what nonsense. There are dozens of them under 500g. The vast majority of aura infusions are achieveable by most players if they want one. There's only a handful above 1000g.

So, what's wrong with making an infusion that isn't inherently rare? Nothing, there are tons of different ones out there. So why make THIS one very expensive to craft and therefore rare, particularly when it was one of the selling points of your new chapter?

[Liston.9708]

For those saying how tough this is.. I am at 99 tonics. I bought most of the sand and 8ish stacks of blood b4 the chest change as a hedge against a jump in price. Only thing I will continue to buy is the sand. I am not super rich. It can be done if you want to do it..., This was a. Great addition to GW2. If you want a cheap mini grind, do the otter enrichment....

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Liston.9708 said:For those saying how tough this is.. I am at 99 tonics. I bought most of the sand and 8ish stacks of blood b4 the chest change as a hedge against a jump in price. Only thing I will continue to buy is the sand. I am not super rich. It can be done if you want to do it..., This was a. Great addition to GW2. If you want a cheap mini grind, do the otter enrichment....

Mate, you had 2000 ectos, a lot of people would consider that super rich.

You're only a fifth of the way through, you've still got 8000 ectos to farm which if you play enough to put 25 a day, every day, towards this is still a year away. Don't count your chickens before they've hatched.

Yes, it can be done if people want to, but that's not what we are discussing. We are discussing the reasons for making it very expensive to craft and why none of them make any actual sense.

[Game of Bones.8975]

There was a time when people said Legendaries cost too much in mats, time, and effort. Now it seems that every time you turn around everyone is wielding a Legendary or two.

If you have the mats you'll find a way to use them.

[Tazer.2157]

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:The Frost Legion Infusion.

Ok, so yes some people will, and have, crafted it.But this is just totally out of reach to the vast majority of the player base. Now, I get why rarity is fine for drops like the Chak Infusion and I'm fine with that. But for a crafted item? Seriously, 25,000 shards, 10,250 ecto, 12,500 Thermocatalytic Reagents and 37,500 Sand?

Now, if it's a material sink it still makes no sense to me. If it were 1/10th of the materials, then more than 10x the people would craft it at some point because it's within reach if you actually want it. But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this?

It might be like a few legendary in classic WoW. It’s group content. You and your guild are supposed to craft it together. At least that’s what I think they were going for.

[Ryou.2398]

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:The Frost Legion Infusion.

Ok, so yes some people will, and have, crafted it.But this is just totally out of reach to the vast majority of the player base. Now, I get why rarity is fine for drops like the Chak Infusion and I'm fine with that. But for a crafted item? Seriously, 25,000 shards, 10,250 ecto, 12,500 Thermocatalytic Reagents and 37,500 Sand?

Now, if it's a material sink it still makes no sense to me. If it were 1/10th of the materials, then more than 10x the people would craft it at some point because it's within reach if you actually want it. But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this?

To keep people playing of course.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:There was a time when people said Legendaries cost too much in mats, time, and effort. Now it seems that every time you turn around everyone is wielding a Legendary or two.

If you have the mats you'll find a way to use them.

Again, not the point. A legendary provides a massive QoL improvement, the capacity to save you many hundreds of gold in other stat weapons as well as a skin. This costs twice as much as a legendary weapon to craft and provides nothing.

@Ryou.2398 said:

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:The Frost Legion Infusion.

Ok, so yes some people will, and have, crafted it.But this is just totally out of reach to the vast majority of the player base. Now, I get why rarity is fine for drops like the Chak Infusion and I'm fine with that. But for a crafted item?

Seriously, 25,000 shards, 10,250 ecto, 12,500 Thermocatalytic Reagents and 37,500 Sand?

Now, if it's a material sink it still makes no sense to me. If it were 1/10th of the materials, then more than 10x the people would craft it at some point because it's within reach if you actually want it. But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this?

To keep people playing of course.

We have been over this if you bothered to read the thread before posting. A tiny fraction of people will ever craft this, if the requirements were lower, a lot more people could craft it, therefore a lot more people would keep playing.

[naiasonod.9265]

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:The Frost Legion Infusion.

Ok, so yes some people will, and have, crafted it.But this is just totally out of reach to the vast majority of the player base. Now, I get why rarity is fine for drops like the Chak Infusion and I'm fine with that. But for a crafted item? Seriously, 25,000 shards, 10,250 ecto, 12,500 Thermocatalytic Reagents and 37,500 Sand?

Now, if it's a material sink it still makes no sense to me. If it were 1/10th of the materials, then more than 10x the people would craft it at some point because it's within reach if you actually want it. But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this?

From where I see things, it's kinda like why people climb Mount Everest. Some might even say that it's an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Some people will look at that infusion and need to climb that mountain just to prove something, say they did it, feel like they did something few others would ever do; whatever turns their crank.

It's something to chase for those that want to chase it. More options, more better, even if I'm right there with ya in the camp of 'Well that's insane' and will never, ever do that myself. It neither deprives me nor spites me in any way for it to be there for someone else to get a kick out of it if that's their pleasure.

[Shiyo.3578]

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:The Frost Legion Infusion.

Ok, so yes some people will, and have, crafted it.But this is just totally out of reach to the vast majority of the player base. Now, I get why rarity is fine for drops like the Chak Infusion and I'm fine with that. But for a crafted item? Seriously, 25,000 shards, 10,250 ecto, 12,500 Thermocatalytic Reagents and 37,500 Sand?

Now, if it's a material sink it still makes no sense to me. If it were 1/10th of the materials, then more than 10x the people would craft it at some point because it's within reach if you actually want it. But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this?

Strongly disagree. Deterministic rewards are fantastic and EXACTLY what people wanted. People did not like 0.00000000000000001% drop rate infusions - this is perfect design and ectos needed a a use since they were rapidly dropping. Hopefully they continue to add great mat sinks like this to the game.

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@Solanum.6983 said:Material/Gold Sink while also being a long term goal. Personally I think it's a huge waste to design something for a very small percentage of the population that will actually try to get it but I get why.

The worst part is that they use said infusion in their video to promote their oh so cool new saga episode... selling people something they will never get.Infusions apart, what did this episode give us exactly?! 10 minutes of story and a long and boring meta extension.

It's the best meta in the entire game and a really good farm.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:The Frost Legion Infusion.

Ok, so yes some people will, and have, crafted it.But this is just totally out of reach to the vast majority of the player base. Now, I get why rarity is fine for drops like the Chak Infusion and I'm fine with that. But for a crafted item?

Seriously, 25,000 shards, 10,250 ecto, 12,500 Thermocatalytic Reagents and 37,500 Sand?

Now, if it's a material sink it still makes no sense to me. If it were 1/10th of the materials, then more than 10x the people would craft it at some point because it's within reach if you actually want it. But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this?

Strongly disagree. Deterministic rewards are fantastic and EXACTLY what people wanted. People did not like 0.00000000000000001% drop rate infusions - this is perfect design and ectos needed a a use since they were rapidly dropping. Hopefully they continue to add great mat sinks like this to the game.

You can't disagree because I didn't present an opinion. I asked a question on why bother devoting their obviously limited resources to creating something that very few people will craft.

If this is EXACTLY what people wanted, why only make it available to very few people? If it is supposed to be a material sink, why not make the requirements such that a lot of people can craft it, therefore use up more materials?

A perfect design would make the infusion part of the story, a small collection and then a tiered infusion with an actual crafting recipe so literally everyone who wants to complete the story has to craft it. Start with a small number of ectos and jormag blood to make the first tier which is used as a disguise to complete some recon part of the story. Then you can add more ectos and materials to upgrade it to tier 2 for more effects, T3, T4 etc etc. So you can complete it at your leisure and decide to stop at whatever point you like without wasting all the materials you put into it.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The Frost Legion Infusion.

Ok, so yes some people will, and have, crafted it.But this is just totally out of reach to the vast majority of the player base. Now, I get why rarity is fine for drops like the Chak Infusion and I'm fine with that. But for a crafted item?

Seriously, 25,000 shards, 10,250 ecto, 12,500 Thermocatalytic Reagents and 37,500 Sand?

Now, if it's a material sink it still makes no sense to me. If it were 1/10th of the materials, then more than 10x the people would craft it at some point because it's within reach if you actually want it. But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this?

Strongly disagree. Deterministic rewards are fantastic and EXACTLY what people wanted. People did not like 0.00000000000000001% drop rate infusions - this is perfect design and ectos needed a a use since they were rapidly dropping. Hopefully they continue to add great mat sinks like this to the game.

You can't disagree because I didn't present an opinion. I asked a question on why bother devoting their obviously limited resources to creating something that very few people will craft.

If this is EXACTLY what people wanted, why only make it available to very few people? If it is supposed to be a material sink, why not make the requirements such that a lot of people can craft it, therefore use up more materials?

A perfect design would make the infusion part of the story, a small collection and then a tiered infusion with an actual crafting recipe so literally everyone who wants to complete the story has to craft it. Start with a small number of ectos and jormag blood to make the first tier which is used as a disguise to complete some recon part of the story. Then you can add more ectos and materials to upgrade it to tier 2 for more effects, T3, T4 etc etc. So you can complete it at your leisure and decide to stop at whatever point you like without wasting all the materials you put into it.

"MMO player bases are never happen" meme right here. They do something people want, and they still complain.Is it an improvement? YesIs it perfect? No.Can it be improved? Yes, your ideas improve it, maybe, but might lower the integrity of the prestige if its too easily accessible.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The Frost Legion Infusion.

Ok, so yes some people will, and have, crafted it.But this is just totally out of reach to the vast majority of the player base. Now, I get why rarity is fine for drops like the Chak Infusion and I'm fine with that. But for a crafted item?

Seriously, 25,000 shards, 10,250 ecto, 12,500 Thermocatalytic Reagents and 37,500 Sand?

Now, if it's a material sink it still makes no sense to me. If it were 1/10th of the materials, then more than 10x the people would craft it at some point because it's within reach if you actually want it. But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this?

Strongly disagree. Deterministic rewards are fantastic and EXACTLY what people wanted. People did not like 0.00000000000000001% drop rate infusions - this is perfect design and ectos needed a a use since they were rapidly dropping. Hopefully they continue to add great mat sinks like this to the game.

You can't disagree because I didn't present an opinion. I asked a question on why bother devoting their obviously limited resources to creating something that very few people will craft.

If this is EXACTLY what people wanted, why only make it available to very few people? If it is supposed to be a material sink, why not make the requirements such that a lot of people can craft it, therefore use up more materials?

A perfect design would make the infusion part of the story, a small collection and then a tiered infusion with an actual crafting recipe so literally everyone who wants to complete the story has to craft it. Start with a small number of ectos and jormag blood to make the first tier which is used as a disguise to complete some recon part of the story. Then you can add more ectos and materials to upgrade it to tier 2 for more effects, T3, T4 etc etc. So you can complete it at your leisure and decide to stop at whatever point you like without wasting all the materials you put into it.

"MMO player bases are never happen" meme right here. They do something people want, and they still complain.Is it an improvement? YesIs it perfect? No.Can it be improved? Yes, your ideas improve it, maybe, but might lower the integrity of the prestige if its too easily accessible.

People want player housing too, but if they implemented it so only the top 1000 players in the game will ever have it, would you call it an improvement? I mean, it exists so sure, its an improvement...

Just so you understand, I'm not complaining about the infusion being too hard to get because I don't use anything with auras. I find them obnoxious. But when I see them use it as an advertising point, then realise only a few people will ever make it, it seems like a giant waste of resources that could be better put to use doing something that at least 10% of players will get something out of. Again, I ask the same question I asked in the OP, what's the point?

There is no such thing as prestige.