Looking forward to getting old, I think?

[coso.9173]

@Court.7180 said:

@DeanBB.4268 said:

@Court.7180 said:Lets put the fanboy-ism aside and really take a look at why Gw2 is failing.. and lets not start a debate as to whether or not its failing, the numbers speak for themselves.. I love the game don't get me wrong. But the development of the game is lacking severely. I don't want it to die, I want them to do better!

There have been 3 chapters released during Covid, plus the updates, festivals and ever-present gem store goodies. And this while working on the next expansion. You really think there is no development? Or do you only want tech improvements?

Seriously ur crediting festivals and current content as new developments? Its the same THING! The store takes and removes things calling them seasonal, updates are shifts in the programming that were long overdue (anyone with a legendary will tell you that ). The whole game has been the same thing in one way or another, just content lazily shifted around to convince the blind its something new and exciting. With this blind loyalty Anet definitely has a strong fan base, they can get away with anything! Sorry for wasting my time hoping some people had eyes to see or atleast the vision to see what could be done better.. Enjoy your "perfect" gw2.

@Court.7180 said:

@DeanBB.4268 said:

@Court.7180 said:Lets put the fanboy-ism aside and really take a look at why Gw2 is failing.. and lets not start a debate as to whether or not its failing, the numbers speak for themselves.. I love the game don't get me wrong. But the development of the game is lacking severely. I don't want it to die, I want them to do better!

There have been 3 chapters released during Covid, plus the updates, festivals and ever-present gem store goodies. And this while working on the next expansion. You really think there is no development? Or do you only want tech improvements?

Seriously ur crediting festivals and current content as new developments? Its the same THING! The store takes and removes things calling them seasonal, updates are shifts in the programming that were long overdue (anyone with a legendary will tell you that ). The whole game has been the same thing in one way or another, just content lazily shifted around to convince the blind its something new and exciting. With this blind loyalty Anet definitely has a strong fan base, they can get away with anything! Sorry for wasting my time hoping some people had eyes to see or atleast the vision to see what could be done better.. Enjoy your "perfect" gw2.

i get it for festivals, but how is actual new story content and new maps "same old content, just shifter around?"

[Algreg.3629]

that went from passive-aggressive complaining to "I am enlightened, sheeple!" pretty quickly. I think it is a great way to convince people.

[Tere.4759]

@coso.9173 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:

@coso.9173 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Court.7180 said:

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Court.7180 said:Lets put the fanboy-ism aside and really take a look at why Gw2 is failing.. and lets not start a debate as to whether or not its failing, the numbers speak for themselves.. I love the game don't get me wrong. But the development of the game is lacking severely. I don't want it to die, I want them to do better!

Can you give me a source for the numbers. I find it is helpful to have all the data when talking about things.

https://mmo-population.com/r/guildwars2

Has the numbers. Yes its still considered a "healthy" game by current standards. But the player base logs in to do things like dailies instead of play the game for extended sessions (self included). Just look at the subscriber to daily player ratio and those "daily players" have a good amount of pop-in players.

Lol. There's a lot of guessing and misinformation on that site. "Estimate this, due to sentiment that"; not exactly overwhelmingly trustworthy.

I mean those numbers aren't bad IMO, it's a 8 year old game and it's still in the top 7.

Bear in mind, as @Raknar.4735 pointed out that site also lists Wildstar at rank 31 with over 13,000 daily players and that game was shut down in 2018, so I don't think their numbers are entirely accurate. They've also got City of Heroes at rank 39 with almost 24,000 daily players and that's been offline since 2012.

I don't know about wildstar, but I know city of heroes has lots of private servers right now. I odn't know if they count those.Also yeah i have no idea is the site has accurate numbers or no, but it was used to supposedly demostrate it was doing poorly, and I don't think the numbers show that at all.

Unfortunately, Wildstar doesn't have private servers or else I'd be playing it. It sucks. That was a really fun game and worked well as a second RPG.

[Tere.4759]

@Court.7180 said:

@Tere.4759 said:

@Court.7180 said:

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Court.7180 said:

@Super Hayes.6890 said:Apples and Oranges. And with those stats I still choose GW2 over WoW because making payments on a video game was one of the worst things the gaming community ever accepted. I have not and will not ever play a game with a monthly payment. Anet pulled off an amazing game without forced monthly payments to keep playing.

Yes they did do a great job. But clearly its not enough.. when's the last time we had an expansion? or a real surge of new content. Last thing I saw was a freaking skimmer under water (seriously?). No new water mounts? Still waiting on Legendary Armory! If they had proper funding from continual income they could afford to do so much more. I'm in the same boat as you, I don't like paying for mmorpg's but I see the benefits of it when comparing it to other games strategies.

When you say they could do more, what do you want them to do exactly?

I believe in more than just voicing a complaint, so I appreciate your question.Easy answer: I want them to come out with guildwars 3!Not so easy answer: I want them to establish a different business model. The game has gotten monotonous and repetitive, even the new content is the same concept with the same pieces thrown around in a different way. I want them to embrace next gen and the amazing new tech coming out. With all the Tflops of data being chomped up by consumer hardware now a days, I want them to revolutionize the MMORPG genre just like they did back with Gw1 and Gw2 no grieving system. But this time I want them to focus more on AI development. The winner of the next MMORPG wars will have changed the game by utilizing the power of current hardware in a way never done before and for mmorpgs that focus MUST be on how NPCs interact with players.

Right, so you want most of the players not to be able to play the game. You do realize that most of the players don't have the most up to date computer hardware...right....right?

Well that's what happens with generational upgrades. With the new PS5 and Xbox Series X gaming is getting a huge boost and they are being introduced at the usual $500 mark. Compare that to last gen Xbox and Ps4. So yes players are going to have the most up to date, its just a matter of WHEN they decide to get it. Why should developers have to wait til the consumer (who by the way has been complaining about not having games utilize their hardcore systems fully) upgrades. This is a great push by console and game developers, this is the time when everything is exciting. Remember when Crysis came out and blazed everyones PC's? Thats what we are dealing with now with ray tracing and clearly the majority can play Crysis now ez-pz. Its great for us PC gamers (hardcore or not) because it will push developers and hardware makers to make more affordable and awesome tech. 3 big players in GPU this year, last year was just Nvidia.

Don't get me wrong, I will be buying either one or both of the new consoles but I am not most people. You can't tell a company that has a game that isn't even on a console, to 1) put it on a console; 2) update the game so 80% of the people can't play it. The bloody game is gorgeous already. I don't think people would complain about that. Anet needs to focus on balance, separate PvP and PvE so that they can be balanced completely separately, getting rid of bots and bugs. Upgrading graphics is not even on the agenda.

[Ashen.2907]

@Taril.8619 said:

Ehh... I still prefer the subscription model. Since that way I don't get nickle and dime'd for every. Single. Possible. Thing. With paywalls on all the coolest stuff,

With the sub model you are being asked to pay for every. single. possible. thing....including those that you do not want. And there is a paywall on all of the coolest stuff, all of the least cool stuff, and everything in between.

[Anchoku.8142]

How about native VR support?

[kharmin.7683]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

Ehh... I still prefer the subscription model. Since that way I don't get nickle and dime'd for every. Single. Possible. Thing. With paywalls on all the coolest stuff,

With the sub model you are being asked to pay for every. single. possible. thing....including those that you do not want. And there is a paywall on all of the coolest stuff, all of the least cool stuff, and everything in between.

Also, with GW2 micro-transactions being pretty much cosmetic only, you needn't spend any money at all!

[Taril.8619]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Taril.8619" said:

Ehh... I still prefer the subscription model. Since that way I don't get nickle and dime'd for every. Single. Possible. Thing. With paywalls on all the coolest stuff,

With the sub model you are being asked to pay for every. single. possible. thing....including those that you do not want. And there is a paywall on all of the coolest stuff, all of the least cool stuff, and everything in between.

No, with the sub model you're being asked to pay for access to the game. Which includes EVERYTHING in the game. Including any new stuff they release (Besides Expansions, but that's another topic).

I'm not being asked "Please pay $10 to access this cosmetic" "Oh and another $10 to equip another bag" "Please give us $10 so you can make another character" "While you're at it, give us $10 so you can equip another bag on that new character!"

It's just a flat "Give us $10 a month and you get access to the entire game". No splitting off all the coolest stuff to sell separately, no shoddy baseline systems to sell it back. Just, "Here's the game in its entirety, for $10 per month"

This is before you account for when non-subscription games devolve into using Lootboxes so you can pay to "Maybe" get something which will often be uniquely obtained through said Lootboxes and also often rotated out after a period of time...

[kharmin.7683]

@Taril.8619 said:

No, with the sub model you're being asked to pay for access to the game. Which includes EVERYTHING in the game. Including any new stuff they release (Besides Expansions, but that's another topic).Yep. And many of us do not want to feel that we have to play in order to justify the monthly fee.

For GW2, however, you are more than welcome to subscribe to it. Just buy $10-$20USD in gems every months and I'm sure that you'll be able to afford any cosmetic item in the gem shop that you would want. There is nothing preventing players from subscribing on their own in this manner.

[sigur.9453]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

No, with the sub model you're being asked to pay for access to the game. Which includes EVERYTHING in the game. Including any new stuff they release (Besides Expansions, but that's another topic).

For GW2, however, you are more than welcome to subscribe to it. Just buy $10-$20USD in gems every months and I'm sure that you'll be able to afford any cosmetic item in the gem shop that you would want. There is nothing preventing players from subscribing on their own in this manner.

Paying 10 € per Month in a non sub based game does Not offer the Same experience like a sub based Game.This argument, no matter hoW often it is braught up makes no Sense. Those 2 different models have very different design philosphies. Some good, Some Bad. Not judging what model you prefer, But please consider your pov on this.

[kharmin.7683]

@sigur.9453 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

No, with the sub model you're being asked to pay for access to the game. Which includes EVERYTHING in the game. Including any new stuff they release (Besides Expansions, but that's another topic).

For GW2, however, you are more than welcome to subscribe to it. Just buy $10-$20USD in gems every months and I'm sure that you'll be able to afford any cosmetic item in the gem shop that you would want. There is nothing preventing players from subscribing on their own in this manner.

Paying 10 € per Month in a non sub based game does Not offer the Same experience like a sub based Game.This argument, no matter hoW often it is braught up makes no Sense. Those 2 different models have very different design philosphies. Some good, Some Bad. Not judging what model you prefer, But please consider your pov on this.

Really? How is it different? GW2 is free to play. You get all of the core content for free. Spending some amount each month (like a subscription) would allow players to unlock DLC (heck, log in to the already free game on content release and you even get the additional content for free). It would also allow for the purchase of items from the gem store, which incidentally aren't required to play the game.

Yes, the design philosophies, as you put it, are inherently different; however, the end result is pretty much the same. If you want content outside of core/basic content, then you'll pay for it either via subscription or voluntary monthly payment for gems. What many of us don't want is for GW2 to change to a subscription (plus microtransaction) model like practically every other MMO. Some of us don't play other MMOs specifically for this reason.

GW2 already offers a lot of content and value for next to nothing. It is up to the players to decide if they want something from the gem store badly enough to pay for it, and even then they can play the game (which, by the way, is still free) to earn gold to convert to gems. What other free to play games offer such a deal?

The gemshop is one of (if not the one) the most lucrative ways for the studio to make money so that they can continue to create content. A subscription model is not needed when there already exists a way for players to emulate a monthly sub fee should they desire to do so.

[sigur.9453]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@sigur.9453 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

No, with the sub model you're being asked to pay for access to the game. Which includes EVERYTHING in the game. Including any new stuff they release (Besides Expansions, but that's another topic).

For GW2, however, you are more than welcome to subscribe to it. Just buy $10-$20USD in gems every months and I'm sure that you'll be able to afford any cosmetic item in the gem shop that you would want. There is nothing preventing players from subscribing on their own in this manner.

Paying 10 € per Month in a non sub based game does Not offer the Same experience like a sub based Game.This argument, no matter hoW often it is braught up makes no Sense. Those 2 different models have very different design philosphies. Some good, Some Bad. Not judging what model you prefer, But please consider your pov on this.

Really? How is it different? GW2 is free to play. You get all of the core content for free. Spending some amount each month (like a subscription) would allow players to unlock DLC (heck, log in to the already free game on content release and you even get the additional content for free). It would also allow for the purchase of items from the gem store, which incidentally aren't required to play the game.

Yes, the design philosophies, as you put it, are inherently different; however, the end result is pretty much the same. If you want content outside of core/basic content, then you'll pay for it either via subscription or voluntary monthly payment for gems. What many of us don't want is for GW2 to change to a subscription (plus microtransaction) model like practically every other MMO. Some of us don't play other MMOs specifically for this reason.

GW2 already offers a lot of content and value for next to nothing. It is up to the players to decide if they want something from the gem store badly enough to pay for it, and even then they can play the game (which, by the way, is still free) to earn gold to convert to gems. What other free to play games offer such a deal?

The gemshop is one of (if not the one) the most lucrative ways for the studio to make money so that they can continue to create content. A subscription model is not needed when there already exists a way for players to emulate a monthly sub fee should they desire to do so.

The whole reward system is different. Excluding gold grind, beeing a part of every Game. The feeling getting a reward in Most sub based games is very different to f2p Games imo. The endresult may be the Same, But the „emotional connection“ to said reward is very different.I understand you point, But i don‘t just seE the product (content) i See the fun/Not Fun i have With it.

Argee, gw2 gemshop isnt as bad as others, But still designed with impulse purchases, lootboxes, qol features (=make base game more umpleasent) in mind.The shop dictates the Game the Same was a sub (make Things take a Long time) dictates a Game.Gold2gem is a winwin for players and the company (double tax) and nothing new. Runes of Magic had a similar design, as some Other Hard pay to win Games Aswell. (Im Not saying gw is in any form p2w)

Never Said that gemshop makes them less money than a possible sub. I Said That you Cant say „just pay 10€ each month and Boom you are Playing a sub Fee Game.“Ist works for eso, since it was designed as a sub Fee Game but would be a horrible idea for gw2 since the game is designed around the gemshop.To put it harshly:Sub Games try to hold back your progress with Hugh timewastes to extend your time till you reach your goal (longer subbed) wouldn’t be suprised if alghorithms dictated when a new expansion should launch.Gemstore games try to make you as unconfortabe as possible, hide the shienies in the shop, and are trying to release as much short bits of content as possible to expose the shop as much as possible.

So If someone says that s/he Would prefer gw2 to be a sub game, doesnt mean s/he wants to simply pay xx€/month for the same content plus some extra shop items.

TLDR: paying a monthly amount doesnt make A game a (good )sub fee game. Would be horrible for gw2, yet I would have enjoyed gw2 more if it would have been designed as one. (This is no attack on people That think otherwise and are clearly the majority in this game,)Sry for errors, cant figure out how to turn of autocorrect to another language.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Taril.8619 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

Ehh... I still prefer the subscription model. Since that way I don't get nickle and dime'd for every. Single. Possible. Thing. With paywalls on all the coolest stuff,

With the sub model you are being asked to pay for every. single. possible. thing....including those that you do not want. And there is a paywall on all of the coolest stuff, all of the least cool stuff, and everything in between.

No, with the sub model you're being asked to pay for access to the game. Which includes EVERYTHING in the game. Including any new stuff they release (Besides Expansions, but that's another topic).

I'm not being asked "Please pay $10 to access this cosmetic" "Oh and another $10 to equip another bag" "Please give us $10 so you can make another character" "While you're at it, give us $10 so you can equip another bag on that new character!"

It's just a flat "Give us $10 a month and you get access to the entire game". No splitting off all the coolest stuff to sell separately, no shoddy baseline systems to sell it back. Just, "Here's the game in its entirety, for $10 per month"

This is before you account for when non-subscription games devolve into using Lootboxes so you can pay to "Maybe" get something which will often be uniquely obtained through said Lootboxes and also often rotated out after a period of time...

In FFXIV, you don't get all available things by paying a sub fee. They have a shop which is mostly cosmetics i think (i haven't cheked). So it isn't a guarantee it would all be available for you. And they use more time and effort in making the cosmetics you buy with real money, at least if you believe people on the FFXIV forum.

I think lootboxes suck, but the bigger question is, how and why do people keep falling for it?

[kharmin.7683]

@sigur.9453 said:TLDR: paying a monthly amount doesnt make A game a (good )sub fee game. Would be horrible for gw2, yet I would have enjoyed gw2 more if it would have been designed as one. (This is no attack on people That think otherwise and are clearly the majority in this game,)

Thanks for the considerate and well thought-out post. ;)

[Taril.8619]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

Ehh... I still prefer the subscription model. Since that way I don't get nickle and dime'd for every. Single. Possible. Thing. With paywalls on all the coolest stuff,

With the sub model you are being asked to pay for every. single. possible. thing....including those that you do not want. And there is a paywall on all of the coolest stuff, all of the least cool stuff, and everything in between.

No, with the sub model you're being asked to pay for access to the game. Which includes EVERYTHING in the game. Including any new stuff they release (Besides Expansions, but that's another topic).

I'm not being asked "Please pay $10 to access this cosmetic" "Oh and another $10 to equip another bag" "Please give us $10 so you can make another character" "While you're at it, give us $10 so you can equip another bag on that new character!"

It's just a flat "Give us $10 a month and you get access to the entire game". No splitting off all the coolest stuff to sell separately, no shoddy baseline systems to sell it back. Just, "Here's the game in its entirety, for $10 per month"

This is before you account for when non-subscription games devolve into using Lootboxes so you can pay to "Maybe" get something which will often be uniquely obtained through said Lootboxes and also often rotated out after a period of time...

In FFXIV, you don't get all available things by paying a sub fee. They have a shop which is mostly cosmetics i think (i haven't cheked). So it isn't a guarantee it would all be available for you. And they use more time and effort in making the cosmetics you buy with real money, at least if you believe people on the FFXIV forum.

I think lootboxes suck, but the bigger question is, how and why do people keep falling for it?

FFXIV and somewhat recently, WoW are exceptions in the way that they are both subscription games that also have a cash shop selling cosmetics, that is true. But they're just that, exceptions.

As far as "Time and effort" goes, FFXIV's cash shop has less effort put into it than items in the game, as noted by anyone who's ever bought cosmetics from it and noticed that unlike everything available in game, none of it can be dyed. Even the allure of having the cosmetics which are copies of actual NPC's outfits isn't something unique to the cash shop as FFXIV also does events in-game where you can get notable NPC's outfits for free.

Though, FFXIV is an odd case. Since, most of the money that's made from the game's sub fees and box purchases is used by the higher ups in SE to fund other projects and the actual team working on the game gets a mere pittance (Which doesn't seem to have increased despite the surge in popularity the game saw with people flocking to it when WoW's BfA expansion pushed people away, as well as with the sucess that Shadowbringers expansion had). Meanwhile, all the money that is made in their cash shop is untouched by SE and remains with the FFXIV team and put back into the game.

As far as lootboxes are concerned, it's typically the way they're marketed that draws people in. The hidden chances for items to drop so people don't realise how much of a waste of time it is to purchase them, the conversion from real money into a secondary currency to divorce people from realizing the actual price of them, the sunk cost fallacy where people spend enough where they think they may as well keep going until they get the item they want.

Not to mention Whales and Gambling Addicts whom either don't care about how much money they waste on that garbage, or have a psychological need to put money towards them to sate their addiction...

[Ashantara.8731]

@Court.7180 said:I don't want it to die, I want them to do better!

With a significantly smaller developer team than Blizzard's? Surrre.

P.S. Complaining about something that's connected to Covid-19 is pretty low, by the way.

[Ashen.2907]

@Taril.8619 said:

No, with the sub model you're being asked to pay for access to the game. Which includes EVERYTHING in the game. Including any new stuff they release (Besides Expansions, but that's another topic).

Yep, access to every. single. thing. in the game. No option to pay for only what you want or will use. Every single thing in the game is locked behind a paywall.

Exactly as I said in the post you quoted.

[Teb.6980]

Wantin to get that cheeky 8 years amulet to flex in chat?