They nerf stability/dmg on most...but engis get permastab and grenades..why?

[Bazsi.2734]

There are multiple threads about juggernaut now. People are complaining about a useless meme build with such conviction, this is hilarious to me. It's even becoming prevalent in PvP. I had half of my wins today because the enemy had one or more of these scrappers. All you need to do is focus them for 4-5 seconds and they go splat.

Are you one of the players who think Juggernaut is good? I envy you. You are yet to learn how to play this game. That is the most fun part.

[Shiyo.3578]

Same reason reaper kept perma quickess in shroud and spinal shivers was nerfed by 0%.

[Shiyo.3578]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Ah yes. Grenades. Such a huge problem that the recent Monthly AT had 2 Engineers in the finals and ... 0 grenades. Huh.

Because scrapper hard counters holo, scrapper + tempest makes holo unable to do dps, and res utils are broken and scrapper gets one for FREE.

Death magic minion scourge is just as stupid as flamethrower scrapper btw. Death magic needs to stop being a tank trait line.

Builds such as the two mentioned above are what hold this game back and stopS new players from continuing to play. Bunker builds also do this.

Thus this creates a stagnant game mode where the player base never grows and eventually shrinks to the point where the mode is dead.

IF ANET CARES ABOUT THE HEALTH AND LIFE OF PVP THEY WILL CRACK DOWN AND DESTROY LOW EFFORT:HIGH REWARD BUILDS ASAP.

[Yasai.3549]

Yo just bring Necro like every other player and corrupt.

Stab = Fear = Free damage when corrupted.

[Kodama.6453]

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:I am not saying that FT is overperforming. I m just saying that juggernauts design is toxic. It s the same toxicity that the actual nade holo have with his 20+might. You can corrupt/remove the might but the thing is their might regeneration is way higher than your ability to corrupt/remove.It's also the same toxicity conid rev had with resistance. You could corrupt/remove it, but the frequency of reapplication just kicked that solution out.

Are you seriously comparing juggernaut with perma resistance?

Perma resistance makes you absolutely immune to one of two damage types (conditions). Any condition build that doesn't have tons of corrupt (so basically everyone except necromancers) is auto losing against them, since perma resistance makes all your conditions worthless.That is not the same like getting 1 stack of stability every 3 seconds.

Against a juggernaut scrapper, you can still chain 2 CC skills. The first will remove the stability, the second will CC your enemy. Even if the stability is reapplied right after, your CC went through and will last (and ft scrapper doesn't use a stunbreak, so they can't get out of that CC that went through either).You negate 1 CC, not every CC thrown at you.

Perma resistance on the other hand doesn't care how many conditions you are throwing at it. You can't "break" resistance by loading more conditions on them. As long as they have resistance, they are immune to conditions, period.

And then there is still the requirement to use flamethrower the whole time with juggernaut to get the stability and that kit has major weaknesses by itself. Retaliation makes it that a flamethrower user deals basically the same damage to themselves that they are dealing to you, giving you the advantage. Using terrain correctly basically shuts flamethrower's damage down completely.

I can't believe that someone really claims that juggernaut is as much a toxic design as having permanent resistance.

[Kuma.1503]

Flamethrower Engi is a low effort build. All it has to do is walk at you and press 1.

Countering it is a low effort process You have:

Z Axis abuseRetalCorruptChain CCPower or Condi burstMobility/KitingOutrange it

Safe to say, every class has a way to easily deal with Flamethrower engi. Does it punish new players? Yes. Is it the worst build to fight as a new player to the game? Absolutely not. If anything it helps teach new players how to utilize the many tools this game has to offer. Proper usage of any of those tools will allow you to survive against the engi.

"Because no other class has 'perma' stab" Is not a good reason. Homogeneity for homogeneity's sake is not good game design.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Ah yes. Grenades. Such a huge problem that the recent Monthly AT had 2 Engineers in the finals and ... 0 grenades. Huh.

Because scrapper hard counters holo, scrapper + tempest makes holo unable to do dps, and res utils are broken and scrapper gets one for FREE.

Death magic minion scourge is just as stupid as flamethrower scrapper btw. Death magic needs to stop being a tank trait line.

Builds such as the two mentioned above are what hold this game back and stopS new players from continuing to play. Bunker builds also do this.

Thus this creates a stagnant game mode where the player base never grows and eventually shrinks to the point where the mode is dead.

IF ANET CARES ABOUT THE HEALTH AND LIFE OF PVP THEY WILL CRACK DOWN AND DESTROY LOW EFFORT:HIGH REWARD BUILDS ASAP.

And Scrapper did not run Grenades either.

[Teb.6980]

@Chaith.8256 said:@"Supreme.3164" said:

in the sense they lack

integrity

.

Obviously we will see nerfs queued up to Explosives and Holosmith traits

Juggernaut probably goes untouched, why?

• To the masses, the only fact worth considering is: "spam #1, perma stability & many might stacks!". Rarely do people consider that you can ONLY spam flamethrower skills to maintain this, and you gotta dedicate two mediocre traitlines to do so. Trapped behind an enormous paywall of opportunity cost compared to the best builds. However if you are a new player who plays at a slower pace, spamming FT #1 might not seem like the lackluster way to apply pressure to competent enemies that it is, and stability lowers risk. It's a low risk low reward build, if you nerf it, you won't affect any of the engineers who are actually smacking kids right now, just the learners. Will ArenaNet nerf firearms and FT? Press X to doubt

X, but pls look at the way bleeding & crits stack with might, which is the reason pistol took the nerf hammer a while ago too

On a side notes Grenades are kittin strong. Stahp them. By lowering the count from 3 to 2 and multiplying the damage x150% at least, for starters, for a soft nerf... that would help a lot.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Kuma.1503" said:Flamethrower Engi is a low effort build. All it has to do is walk at you and press 1.

Countering it is a low effort process You have:

Z Axis abuseRetalCorruptChain CCPower or Condi burstMobility/KitingOutrange it

Safe to say, every class has a way to easily deal with Flamethrower engi. Does it punish new players? Yes. Is it the worst build to fight as a new player to the game? Absolutely not. If anything it helps teach new players how to utilize the many tools this game has to offer. Proper usage of any of those tools will allow you to survive against the engi.

"Because no other class has 'perma' stab" Is not a good reason. Homogeneity for homogeneity's sake is not good game design.

When it's not your class....those tools to counter suddenly disappear am I right? , most of the people here are far too eager to jump on "nerf train" when it's not their class.

None of you could kite, Chain CC, Outrange a Lighting rod ele who was using 3 dps lines just like poor poor sad engi player right?None of you could kite, Chain CC and outrange ranger pets am I right?

None of you in this thread could find these "special counter tools" when other professions were under the spotlight! ....Nothing but a bunch of hypocrites using L2P BS arguments when it's convenient to them AKA when they play the class in question

[Kuma.1503]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:Flamethrower Engi is a low effort build. All it has to do is walk at you and press 1.

Countering it is a low effort process You have:

Z Axis abuseRetalCorruptChain CCPower or Condi burstMobility/KitingOutrange it

Safe to say, every class has a way to easily deal with Flamethrower engi. Does it punish new players? Yes. Is it the worst build to fight as a new player to the game? Absolutely not. If anything it helps teach new players how to utilize the many tools this game has to offer. Proper usage of any of those tools will allow you to survive against the engi.

"Because no other class has 'perma' stab" Is not a good reason. Homogeneity for homogeneity's sake is not good game design.

When it's not your class....

those tools to counter suddenly disappear am I right?

, most of the people here are

far too eager

to jump on "nerf train" when it's not their class.

None of you could kite, Chain CC, Outrange a Lighting rod ele who

was using 3 dps lines just like poor poor sad engi player

right?None of you could kite, Chain CC and outrange ranger pets am I right?

None of you in this thread could find these "special counter tools" when other professions were under the spotlight! ....Nothing but a bunch of hypocrites using L2P BS arguments when it's convenient to them AKA when they play the class in question

Ah the classic "You're just defending your main". Wouldn't be a nerf thread if it didn't pop up at least once. :PI was there for both of those nerf threads, and I got told the same thing.

Got told the same thing when I defended Rev, Mesmer, and Guardian too.

I mean, I'm flattered. I wish I as good enough to main every class in the game, but you guys give me too much credit :sweat_smile: