Necromancer Ideas

[YellowJacket.7249]

I've been playing for quite some time. My first class to 80 was a thief so I relate almost every other class I play to it. Unfortunately for me, (imho) every other class pales in comparison to what you can do with a thief class. The honest-to-god best part about the class is that one of it's elite specializations (daredevil) is quintessentially just a direct upgrade to it's core playstyle something that I haven't seen with any other elite specs as most the other elite specs tend to be focused around diversifying a role rather than solidifying that role they already have. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I feel that other classes deserve the same.

Right now, it feels like Necromancer (my second favorite class just from how the theme of life/death on a sylvari necro in terms of nature and ahem "Golgari Colors") is in a very...very confusing spot. Primarily with something that has been around since the start: Shroud. It's awesome in every way but at the same time the best way to utilize shroud is by being a power necro. There really still isn't an option that -sticks- for making shroud more accessible to condition builds. If you're a condi necro, shroud is basically just a "last chance" sort of life bar is how it feels. Dhuumfire is basically the only option unless you spec'd into unholy martyr and plague signet combined with an enemy that is carelessly applying conditions to you for you to send to them. In short, shroud VASTLY prefers a power/crit build and gameplay that revolves around it which is fairly evident with Reaper elite spec that turns Shroud into a dominating melee build that is about as fair as a WOTLK Death Knight.

The solution in my opinion is quite simple. Lich Form. Lich Form honestly doesn't see that much play over flesh golem and plaguelands due to their ease of use. It would be pretty simple approach. In the Death Magic tree, it could be a training option to change "Death Nova" (the offense-centered last trait) into a trait that replaces "Shroud" with "Lich Form". In response to the loss of an elite skill, an easy option would be to turn Signet of Undeath into a more "fitting" elite skill where you gain passive life force and can revive more than just one downed ally. (sort of like a group battle res). Lich Form's abilities would also need a bit of tweaking to fit this condition theme; Deathly Claws should inflict poison or bleeding, Summon Madness would essentially be the trait "death nova" where you passively summon jagged horrors per enemy killed or activate it to summon six of them over time (each creating a small poison field when dead), and lastly Grim Specter should focus on weakness or immobilization or chilled effects (or considering shroud skills maybe just a boon > condi conversion). It would definitely give some options to condi necros as they enter shroud.

The other curious thought I have is when a necromancer enters water, the flesh golem turns into an undead shark. I love it. That's so cool.Why don't the other minions change into like carnivorous small fish or other aquatic life then? I just seems half-done.

Hopefully this doesn't seem like the ramblings of a madman right now.

[Dadnir.5038]

Objectively, the shroud isn't in a bad spot for conditions build. The thing is that you should not consider dhuumfire as what will allow you to use it like that. What is important to take into consideration is that the condition that pack the necromancer's damages is mostly Bleed and it will be this condition that you will favor in most of the builds you'll make as a necromancer. You'll favor fear for fight against relatively low health point like in PvP or WvW (small scale).For condibuild DS is used on CD to cast dark path and tainted shackle then you usually return to your scepter. For RS, dhuumfire can be seen as an asset but you'll mostly try to spin into your ice field to build bleed.

I'll be honest, I'd rather have them remove lich form than have a trait that replace the shroud by lich form. Also the trait would be weird with the scourge's e-spec.

@YellowJacket.7249 said:The other curious thought I have is when a necromancer enters water, the flesh golem turns into an undead shark. I love it. That's so cool.

Glad you love it granted the time it took us to convince ANet to allow the golem to be used underwater.

[Lily.1935]

If you're talking PvE than yes, Death shroud doesn't offer much in terms of Damage. The unique trait of Core necromancer being able to run more core specs which do have some pretty great advantages is undermined by the rather lacking Death shroud itself. However, Death shroud is extremely strong in PvP and WvW where its good at tracking targets with life blast and hitting hard. Although Its not the best at condi damage, it still gets the job done.

Lich Form is also very strong in Competitive modes being extremely threatening with its high burst damage. I personally don't care for Lich's design, much like Dadnir. My prefered fix for it would be to have a weaker Lich's shroud that can be used to replace your life force mechanic with a new shroud mechanic that focuses its design a bit more. Giving Us access to Unstable horrors more frequently to get a more Minion bomber and unique supportive or offensive skills that could give more incentive to use core necromancer for their access to more core traits.

I'm of the opinion that Necromancer has some of the most unique traits in the game and their design leave a lot of room for some absolutely unique ways to play, but I also recognize the limitations of some of these designs.

As a side Note, MTG fan represent! Golgari is one of my favorite guilds. In terms of Lore I'm a Simic girl and personality wise I'm Dimir or Izzet. But my two favorite color combinations are Grixis and Sultai! Graveyard strategies are super awesome!.

[Taril.8619]

Shroud is pretty lame for Condi builds.

Would be nice if Shroud skill 1 would have innate condi application besides the Dhuumfire trait. Bleed would be ideal.

P.s. Unholy Martyr is still not good for Condi builds because it consumes the condi's when you leave Shroud which means you'd likely eat the damaging condi's you planned to send to the enemy (Not to mention the whole notion of sending condi's to enemies is rendered moot in PvE because Guardians fart out Light fields which means tons of condi cleanse gets spammed out everywhere removing all your condi's before you can send them to the enemy)

Lich Form is used in PvP/WvW because Flesh Golem and Plaguelands are literally worthless there and because it provides stability and can destroy noobs.

Also, an interesting fact is that one of the human racial elite skills, Avatar of Grenth, gives you the appearance of being in Shroud (Black and smokey effects) but provides the effect of pulsing Chill and Poison to surrounding enemies. Which sounds like a mechanic that could be cool to add to Necro's shroud in some way (As well as a nod back to the old Plague skill which used to be a Transformation into a cloud of condi's before being reworked into Plaguelands. Plague can still actually be accessed, albeit by Engineers, when using their Elixir X skill underwater)

@YellowJacket.7249 said:The other curious thought I have is when a necromancer enters water, the flesh golem turns into an undead shark. I love it. That's so cool.Why don't the other minions change into like carnivorous small fish or other aquatic life then? I just seems half-done.

The shark was their way of bypassing the need to create swimming animations for the Flesh Golem by copy/pasting an existing asset, when enough people asked ANet to allow the skill to be used underwater.

Other minions were given underwater animations for the game's release and as such never were in need of a copy/pasted existing asset in lieu of actually working on them.

[Coeruleum.9164]

If you want to make a condi build, play scourge or reaper. Scourge shade skill 1 can do tons of condi damage, especially if you use the right traits. Condi reaper is niche but there are definitely good builds for it if you want to be a melee-oriented necro and apply conditions. Would you try to make a core ranger a healer when there's druid? I'm sure you can make a core ranger a healer if you're under level 80 and you have to, and the same with condi builds for core necro, but I wouldn't try to force a level 80 character with elite specs to do the same thing.