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You should not be able to drop out of your current ranking bracket no matter what

Shiyo.3578

By Shiyo.3578
in Player vs. Player

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DanAlcedo.3281

DanAlcedo.3281

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Tayga.3192" said:Guild Wars 2 matchmaking is balanced around 50% winrate.

When I was nearing Plat2 it put me against the #1 on the leaderboard with another legendary duo he queued with. I was with all golds and lost 0-500. I lost 29 pointsNext match I win and gain 12 points.You think this made me want to keep playing? Nope, I stopped.

At 50% win rate, if I keep playing, I'll eventually drop down to gold. For most people, playing will make them drop down to gold. 50% win rate ensures nearly everyone is stuck in gold.That means the matchmaker does not function with the current ranking/division system.

So you are saying that the system thinks you are gold level an tries to get you there. And thats wrong?

Also. Having the majority of the playerbase in gold (the middle) makes perfect sense.

My win/losses;+16-25+16-23+13+12+11+12-29

50% win rate would mean I'd do nothing but tank my rating despite playing vs equally skilled(plat) players. It's an anomaly of game design.

Ok. Lets see.

+80 and - 77.

Looks perfectly balanced for me.

I believe whats wrong here is that you think you are a Plat player but the Matchmaker thinks you are Gold.

The reason you play alot of plats is simply low player numbers at the time you are playing and you (maybe) being like Gold 3.

What time and timezone are you playing at?

Also here is my experience with the matchmaker.

https://imgur.com/a/NVpQnSe

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Avatar.3568

Avatar.3568

Posted
Posted

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Tayga.3192" said:Guild Wars 2 matchmaking is balanced around 50% winrate.

When I was nearing Plat2 it put me against the #1 on the leaderboard with another legendary duo he queued with. I was with all golds and lost 0-500. I lost 29 pointsNext match I win and gain 12 points.You think this made me want to keep playing? Nope, I stopped.

At 50% win rate, if I keep playing, I'll eventually drop down to gold. For most people, playing will make them drop down to gold. 50% win rate ensures nearly everyone is stuck in gold.That means the matchmaker does not function with the current ranking/division system.

So you are saying that the system thinks you are gold level an tries to get you there. And thats wrong?

Also. Having the majority of the playerbase in gold (the middle) makes perfect sense.

My win/losses;+16-25+16-23+13+12+11+12-29

50% win rate would mean I'd do nothing but tank my rating despite playing vs equally skilled(plat) players. It's an anomaly of game design.

Maybe you play with bronze duo?

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Khalisto.5780

Khalisto.5780

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I agree you should stay with the highest badget you earned, for the show offs, cuz i've seen ppl get plat and never play again, or play just enough to not get decay.

That would keep ppl playing and make matchmaking better

You'd still lose rating, but let's say you peak plat, even if you now have 1390 you still have the plat badge

I think that's what he meant with not drpping from your bracket, dota always shows the highest you been that season, even if you actually lower than that atm

Matchmaking of course uses your real rating

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Dantheman.3589

Dantheman.3589

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@"Tayga.3192" said:Guild Wars 2 matchmaking is balanced around 50% winrate.

When I was nearing Plat2 it put me against the #1 on the leaderboard with another legendary duo he queued with. I was with all golds and lost 0-500. I lost 29 pointsNext match I win and gain 12 points.You think this made me want to keep playing? Nope, I stopped.

At 50% win rate, if I keep playing, I'll eventually drop down to gold. For most people, playing will make them drop down to gold. 50% win rate ensures nearly everyone is stuck in gold.That means the matchmaker does not function with the current ranking/division system.

So you are saying that the system thinks you are gold level an tries to get you there. And thats wrong?

Also. Having the majority of the playerbase in gold (the middle) makes perfect sense.

My win/losses;+16-25+16-23+13+12+11+12-29

50% win rate would mean I'd do nothing but tank my rating despite playing vs equally skilled(plat) players. It's an anomaly of game design.

Ok. Lets see.

+80 and - 77.

Looks perfectly balanced for me.

I believe whats wrong here is that you think you are a Plat player but the Matchmaker thinks you are Gold.

The reason you play alot of plats is simply low player numbers at the time you are playing and you (maybe) being like Gold 3.

What time and timezone are you playing at?

Also here is my experience with the matchmaker.

The problem with this is that the match maker starts everyone from gold and in your own words assumes they are gold. Having some on who’s brand new do their placements and land gold is ok but then to ask them to do 120 games, or more maybe they do 1000 , and have a 60% win rate only to end as gold seems insane to most and extremely demoralizing to everyone.In contest look at a league game like lol, where ppl start in iron- someone may have been playing for 3 years and climb every season, highest they ever landed was gold, at least they feel a since of accomplishment being in gold with a 60% win rate(actually very good against other gold players) and can brag to all their friends in silver/bronze. Meanwhile the gw2 player spends all their time in rng matches against rank 1 players or silver players learns nothing and isn’t on the leaderboard any ways so has nothing to brag about for doing 1k games a season.

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Hot Boy.7138

Hot Boy.7138

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You should fight for your rank. The fight shouldn't stop until the season ends. If you can't maintain that rank then it's fair you fall to a lower bracket. Maybe it could be an achievement that says you made it to a certain bracket at least once that season, so you can showcase your achieve that you did do it at least once, even if you didn't hold onto it.

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DoLoR.7568

DoLoR.7568

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I think that even if you lost a game, maybe you shouldn’t lose a lot of points if you really put effort to the game but lost cuz of otherss. Why losing points because you played with a bot or you had an afker. Its not fair. At least make it based on your contribution!

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Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

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@DoLoR.7568 said:I think that even if you lost a game, maybe you shouldn’t lose a lot of points if you really put effort to the game but lost cuz of otherss. Why losing points because you played with a bot or you had an afker. Its not fair. At least make it based on your contribution!

It's very difficult to measure meaningful contribution to victory.

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DoLoR.7568

DoLoR.7568

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@DoLoR.7568 said:I think that even if you lost a game, maybe you shouldn’t lose a lot of points if you really put effort to the game but lost cuz of otherss. Why losing points because you played with a bot or you had an afker. Its not fair. At least make it based on your contribution!

It's very difficult to measure meaningful contribution to victory.

I know, but your end stats, like your kills, if you capped points, your damage and heal points at the end should matter when it comes to rank. If you worked hard you should lose less points depending on your work

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Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

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@DoLoR.7568 said:

@DoLoR.7568 said:I think that even if you lost a game, maybe you shouldn’t lose a lot of points if you really put effort to the game but lost cuz of otherss. Why losing points because you played with a bot or you had an afker. Its not fair. At least make it based on your contribution!

It's very difficult to measure meaningful contribution to victory.

I know, but your end stats, like your kills, if you capped points, your damage and heal points at the end should matter when it comes to rank. If you worked hard you should lose less points depending on your work

That's the point. None of those things really indicate if you worked hard or actually helped in winning the game.

You can get few or no top stats yet be the reason why you're team won the game.

Also making them important will cause people to chase them and perform otherwise useless actions in an attempt to prevent their score from going down.

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Dantheman.3589

Dantheman.3589

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@DoLoR.7568 said:

@DoLoR.7568 said:I think that even if you lost a game, maybe you shouldn’t lose a lot of points if you really put effort to the game but lost cuz of otherss. Why losing points because you played with a bot or you had an afker. Its not fair. At least make it based on your contribution!

It's very difficult to measure meaningful contribution to victory.

I know, but your end stats, like your kills, if you capped points, your damage and heal points at the end should matter when it comes to rank. If you worked hard you should lose less points depending on your work

I think the whole point of this thread is the complete opposite. You are talking personal skill rating where the current system isn’t like nor would a league suggestion like this be. In fact a league suggestion is the complete opposite of personal skill rating, so you’d be better off with the current system than the one the op is suggesting

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  • 1 month later...
Robban.1256

Robban.1256

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:What I mean is, if you're bronze/silver/gold/plat/legendary, you should absolutely not be able to drop out of that. If you earned legendary/plat/etc, you should always beLoL/DotA(I think for DOTA?) doesn't let you drop out of your bracket, why does GW2?"Average skill rating difference between teams: 11.866Average standard deviation difference between teams: 11.643Average rating difference in a match: 98.203 (min rating vs max rating across all players in the match).''One thing to keep in mind that end score difference never means that the match didn't start off even. Scores tend to snowball in our game for a number of factors. Some due to map layout/mechanic design. Some due to human nature, as people tend to tilt or give up after getting behind by a certain number. Sometimes people play above or below their potential. That's just part of human performance.''- Quote from benp.

And you cant compare 2 different matchmaking systems. While Elo’s system is a greatimprovement over earlier systems, it too has its problems. The problem with the Elo system that the Glicko system addresses has to do with thereliability of a player’s rating. Suppose two players, both rated 1700, played a tournamentgame with the first player defeating the second. Under the US Chess Federation’s versionof the Elo system, the first player would gain 16 rating points and the second player wouldlose 16 points. But suppose that the first player had just returned to tournament play aftermany years, while the second player plays every weekend. In this situation, the first player’srating of 1700 is not a very reliable measure of his strength, while the second player’s ratingof 1700 is much more trustworthy.

@""Psycoprophet.8107"<Yet a third innovation in the Glicko system is that the equations to recompute your rating depend not only upon your own rating and rating deviation, but they also depend upon your opponents’ ratings and deviations. For this reason, when you gain 31 points, your opponent may lose either more or fewer than 31 points, depending upon your respective ratings and rating deviations.

Both Glicko and Glicko-2 rating systems are under public domain and found implemented on game servers online (like Pokémon Showdown, Lichess, Free Internet Chess Server, Chess.com, Online Go Server (OGS), Counter Strike: Global Offensive, Team Fortress 2, Dota Underlords, Guild Wars 2, Splatoon 2, and Dominion Online), and competitive programming competitions.

https://www.chess.com/blog/kurtgodden/elo-to-glicko-your-rating-explainedhttp://www.glicko.net/glicko/glicko.pdfhttp://msinilo.pl/blog2/post/p1396/glicko1 & 2: http://www.glicko.net/glicko.html

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setdog.1592

setdog.1592

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bronze/silver/gold/plat/legendary. these are skill ratings, and if you lose games your skill rating should reflect that. If you are in Legendary Tier, with say half a dozen others, and you are the only one of those in that tier that lost a game(s) today, or this week, then the risk of getting kicked down to Plat makes sense. The only safe play here for you to remain in legendary (or any) tier is to win. If u dont win, meaning you lose, you get booted from the tier. Skill Rating decay encourages people to play. So ones skill rating does (and should) have to be maintained over the course of the season.

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