Please consider toning down Reaper

[Shiyo.3578]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@snoow.1694 said:Couldn‘t have described it better, Reaper needs a huge damage modifier, sustain and chill duration nerf. It is tearing everything down at the moment. Also fighting against 2 Reapers is pretty much a gg for the enemies

no, dont nerf everything. the last thing we need is more dead specs. nerf damage, OR shroud, OR soft cc. Not all.and not even much, reaper is too strong but not by much, and most importantly reaper is keeping some of the kitten in line with their damage, who else can kill a bunker guard of not reaper?

Yes, don't gut specs. Trim reaper a bit because it's overperforming but don't destroy it, it's a cool class.

@Tharan.9085 said:Dodging is hard I get

Dodge what, the focus 5 with zero animation, the axe2 with quickness, the staff marks with nearly no animation or the shroud 3 with zero animation that fears you into shroud 5 into shroud 4?

There's also only so many dodges, and you need to dodge too much vs reaper. Same issue power rev and holo have - you have to dodge everything as any attack instantly chunks you, but you can only dodge twice.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yes, don't gut specs. Trim reaper a bit because it's overperforming but don't destroy it, it's a cool class.Haha nerf hammer go brrrrr. -Anet for years.

[Bast.7253]

Reaper absolutely needs a damage reduction.

For a class that has two health bars to hit harder than backstab thief, have cover conditions, high damaged range abilities, constant access to quickness, stability, and aoe cc's, it's damage is way too high.

It also needs a drastic reduction in mobility.

[Bast.7253]

In general though, necro just doesn't need to be the defacto class for this game mode. I'm so sick of seeing them and it's often 4 per match.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:It just get's annoying when you drop necro's health to low numbers then it pop up 20k shroud and last 10 ++ seconds more.Wait ... nerf the WHOLE concept of a class because it annoys players in PVP? Is that serious?

You underestimate these forums. I am almost sure that this is the largest motivating force for most nerf requests that happen here. The only thing keeping it in check is that eventually, when people succeed in whining every other class besides the one(s) they main down, they themselves become annoying and are placed on the chopping block afterward.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Shiyo.3578 said:Dodge what, the focus 5 with zero animation-

I take issue with this and some quotes below specifically. A lot of these arguments are in bad faith.

Dodging spinal shivers isn't hard. It's about as demanding as dodging true shot. If you're running into lots of asura or something and finding it difficult to watch for a very quick, circular hand wave that looks like something out of a Dr. Strange comic, then set standard models. It takes a whole second to cast.

Dodge what, the... shroud 3 with zero animation that fears you into shroud 5 into shroud 4?

Infusing Terror has an animation. Reaper 3 causes a green icon to appear on their skill bar along with stability. this is a cue that they have a fear primed, and you should be ready to dodge when you see their fear symbol. They have 6 seconds to use it once they prime it, and usually they use it before or -as- stability is expiring to keep pressure on you.

There's also only so many dodges, and you need to dodge too much vs reaper. Same issue power rev and holo have - you have to dodge everything as any attack instantly chunks you, but you can only dodge twice.

This isn't the case for reaper. Once infusing terror is used and that 3 second stability window is over, you can CC them as much as you want. they will have to drop out of shroud to access stunbreaks. If they do not drop out of shroud, burn it with attacks.

@Bast.7253 said:In general though, necro just doesn't need to be the defacto class for this game mode. I'm so sick of seeing them and it's often 4 per match.

Is your problem with reaper, or necro in general?Are you sure your 4 necro loadout isn't because necro has a lich nuke button?

@Bast.7253 said:Reaper absolutely needs a damage reduction.It also needs a drastic reduction in mobility.

Pick one of those. You cannot have both. Either reaper is slow, but punishes you with death for getting in range of it, or reaper can catch you but won't kill you immediately.

[Shiyo.3578]

Alright, it's time for reaper mains to stop telling me that focus 5 has an animation.

An animation is glint ult. An animation is full counter. An animation is dragon's tooth. These are actual animations a human being can see.

Focus 5 is obscured and nearly impossible to see, has NO ANIMATION, just a tiny little arm cast that no one playing GW2 will ever see. Stop saying it has an animation.

[Tayga.3192]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Pick one of those. You cannot have both. Either reaper is slow, but punishes you with death for getting in range of it, or reaper can catch you but won't kill you immediately.

Why not both, but watered down?

Low-medium mobility with medium-high damage is fine imo, current reaper is medium mobility high damage.

Or nvm I want 0 mobility omega damage because I only play reaper in pve :p

[Asum.4960]

@kybraga.7103 said:The issue with Necromancer in general right now is the lack of management and more just an overabundance of life force generation. Numbers need slapped the same way that other classes got their own numbers slapped. Similar to how Tactics/Strength/Disc Warrior is somewhat starved from Adrenaline due to lack of certain traits/utilities... Necromancer needs its own management reconsidered.

I don't think LF generation needs any nerfs, Necro's just need worthwhile alternatives to those Traits and Utilities.

If you want to know how a LF nerfed Necro would play like without any other changes, try some ranked matches on Reaper without Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk and maybe even Soul Marks and Unholy Martyr as well. It's going to be completely dead weight which never gets to go/stay into Shroud to either do damage or survive.Rn Reapers just pick up every bit of LF gen they can because that's the only way for Necro to do damage as well as to sustain.Without that LF gen they are free kills which don't do anything.

The design mentality of Necro and Shroud has always been problematic in that it's both the only way for Necro to do damage as well as the only survival tool.Too much Shroud/LF and Necro becomes oppressive and unfun to fight, too little and it becomes utterly useless, and there is an extremely fine line between the two.

The solution is not to go back and forth and back and forth between buffing and nerfing Shroud and LF generation, but to finally make Necromancer a proper profession aside from it's profession mechanic, by a) offering it viable out of Shroud/non Shroud interactive Traits and Utilities (offensive as well as finally proper defenses) as alternatives to Shroud buffs and LF generation and b) nerfing Shroud in general while buffing the core kit of Necromancer to compensate, from weapons to Utilities to Traits, and finally striking a proper balance between out and in Shroud, so that it is still a power mode but not all that Necro is.

Otherwise Necro, and especially Reaper, is always going to be 10 seconds of frantically kiting, trying to survive while taking all the LF gen possible, to then go back into spin to win and AA, rinse and repeat. That's neither engaging to fight nor to play and sheer impossible to balance, as when both all the damage and surviveability on a profession comes from one source, every slight buff or nerf to that mode or what fuels it will completely throw things in one direction or the other in terms of power level.

It's time Anet learns that Necro needs to be more than it's profession mechanic, instead of continuously using it as bandaid for a poorly designed core kit, and then going back and forth between overbearing and useless every 6-12 months with slight adjustments to it.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

IMHO the only real problem with reaper is the MASSIVE chill generation. It made sense back in the days 'cause reapers back then didn't really move a lot and needed a way to root their target in place. Since then the game changed; reapers in PvP now move around with shroud 2, spectral walk, wurm, speed runes. They became more mobile than a mesmer while still retaining the ability to root the target in place for quite a long time, this is quite obnoxious. Tone down the chilled generation a little bit and I think it's fine.

[Tycura.1982]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:It just get's annoying when you drop necro's health to low numbers then it pop up 20k shroud and last 10 ++ seconds more.

Wait ... nerf the WHOLE concept of a class because it annoys players in PVP? Is that serious?

That's called mesmer

[Vancho.8750]

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:It just get's annoying when you drop necro's health to low numbers then it pop up 20k shroud and last 10 ++ seconds more.

Wait ... nerf the WHOLE concept of a class because it annoys players in PVP? Is that serious?

That's called mesmerPretty sure that one has never worked with its concept, like the idea is that the mesmer is deceiving people in attacking its clones instead of it , but the most of the time you are attacking clones not because you dont know which is the real mesmer but because the clutter does damage. The only time it uses deception is when it uses portal and that is not even the main mechanic. It is kinda weird to me that Warrior uses more deception with faints, movement fake casts and what not then the supposed deception class. Mesmer is hated cause it does't actually work with its concept and usually relies on all sorts of different broken gimmicks.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Shiyo.3578 said:Alright, it's time for reaper mains to stop telling me that focus 5 has an animation.

An animation is glint ult. An animation is full counter. An animation is dragon's tooth. These are actual animations a human being can see.

Focus 5 is obscured and nearly impossible to see, has NO ANIMATION, just a tiny little arm cast that no one playing GW2 will ever see. Stop saying it has an animation.

Have you tried not dripping in boons in which it wont do any where over 1.2k damage with moderate might application?But i guess you refuse to give up your boons right?your class shouldn't have its boons nerfed right?

You may nerfe all the things you said about necro as soon as you give up everything that bothers people about your profession of choice :'DYou must give up your wide range of boons and mobility.If you have stealth or blocks you must give those up too.If you have burst condition you must give that up too.If you have anything remotely close animation wise to spinal shivers it must be nerfed too.You can remove speed rune as soon as they remove trapper rune too.

You really dont look good saying you only have so many dodges when reapers only have 2 dodges with no traits to recover endurance and no raw vigor access either.Its kind of a bad look that you complain about having to dodge attacks from necros when necros have the lowest number of dodges roughly of any build in the game.

But seriously if you think spinal shivers is doing too much considering it only scales up based main on the number of boons on a target perhaps the real issue is that your class has too much boon uptime and boon application. Perhaps that should be nerfed and then spinal shivers wont hit you hard anymore.

k thanks bye.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Pick one of those. You cannot have both. Either reaper is slow, but punishes you with death for getting in range of it, or reaper can catch you but won't kill you immediately.

Why not both, but watered down?

Low-medium mobility with medium-high damage is fine imo, current reaper is medium mobility high damage.

Any nerf to reaper's mobility as it stands now would qualify it as slow/low mobility, and warrant it doing more damage for the people it does catch.If you want it to do less damage, you will similarly need to increase its mobility, because every class has a meta viable build right now that can kite reaper.

Even watered down, you cannot have both. whatever nerf you lean into will need to be balanced somewhere else.

Or nvm I want 0 mobility omega damage because I only play reaper in pve ::pensive::

explain.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Alright, it's time for reaper mains to stop telling me that focus 5 has an animation.

An animation is glint ult. An animation is full counter. An animation is dragon's tooth. These are actual animations a human being can see.

Focus 5 is obscured and nearly impossible to see, has NO ANIMATION, just a tiny little arm cast that no one playing GW2 will ever see. Stop saying it has an animation.

You saying "stop saying it has an animation" doesn't magically mean it has no animation. As long you know that reaper has focus, you should be able to dodge Spinal Shivers if you're paying attention. It's not a mantra. It has a limited situation for casting.

If you wanna suggest a visual assist and put a big green circle above the necro while they cast it, go for it. I don't think it having an animation you personally find difficult to see warrants the damage being reduced.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Or nvm I want 0 mobility omega damage because I only play reaper in pve ::pensive::

explain.

in pve end game in organized groups where everything flows perfectly reaper is still one of the bottom of the barrel in terms of dps.What Tayga is jokingly implying is that they want more dps in pve where mobility really is not a big factor at all anymore for really any profession. XD

That said i dont agree with the idea of watering down mobility when its already about as low as it gets on just about all the professions in pvp. in terms of lowering the damage if reaper must have lower dps while having low mobility it should be used as a standered across the board for how all other professions deal damage in relation to their mobility. The more mobility they have the less damage they should do with reaper being the bar standard for lowest mobility but highest damage. But no one will agree to this which is why i cant understand the cause to scream out nerf reaper.

[ZDragon.3046]

@"Bast.7253" said:In general though, necro just doesn't need to be the defacto class for this game mode. I'm so sick of seeing them and it's often 4 per match.

If you really want that then give it access to things everyone else has in exchange for the "resource" excuse me so many people call it "health bar" these days but yeah give it stealth, or blocks, or invulns, instant blinks, like the other light armors get in exchange for that while keeping the damage if anything probably add more damage to its base weapon kits then it wont be the defacto class for the game mode cause it will be literally just like everything else but the idealism of doing this is always shot down with an intimidate no. Because people cant imagine a necromancer that can pop onto you like mesmers or Eles can and one shot you in a near instant time frame. People also cant fathom the idea of necromancers having instant blink out of a situation (similar to shadow step or blink or lightning flash) with a well played low cooldown skill that does not require pre setup (like wurm).

Another scourge concept is not acceptable either. Scourge was the idea that you could take away the "health bar" and that necro would be ok like that without providing the active defenses.... blocks, stab, blinks, evades, endurance regen etc etc. After it was bug fixed from launch and nerfed for about 2 years anet obviously realized it was not ok like that because people stopped playing it in the game mode entirely because it was nearly all risk for less reward than reaper and core.

So the way i see it as accept the 2nd health bar and focus on smaller balance tweaks and real quality of life thats not shadow nerfs or do the unthinkable and take the protection of the second health bar for realistic active defenses better mobility possibly even higher base weapon and utility damage across the board that every other profession has and accept that (even if it would mean a massive rework that puts fears in the harts of everyone)

Those are really the two only options you get. If the 3rd option is nerf its mobility and damage because it does too much then use it as a standard for everyone else meaning their mobility and damage should also be put into question at the same time and likely that in many instances other should have less damage than necro has for being faster with better mobility which upfront means even bigger damage cuts for them.

[NotFound.7813]

@Bast.7253 said:Reaper absolutely needs a damage reduction.

For a class that has two health bars to hit harder than backstab thief, have cover conditions, high damaged range abilities, constant access to quickness, stability, and aoe cc's, it's damage is way too high.

It also needs a drastic reduction in mobility.

Two health bars cuz no blocks or evades , reaper needs a quickness nerf and a lich nerf not more , keep damage and a bit quickness access with reaper to do combos no more .