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Please nerf Boneskinner and Whisper before Steam release


aaron.7850

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I disagree. There are enough easy strike missions and by nerf WoJ and Boneskinner the whole point of strikes leading to raids would be gone. I've done WoJ and Boneskinner with many PUG groups - sometimes as commander and in that case never asked for KP or LI - and even though Boneskinner may be hard with PUGs killed both of them succesfully many times. In my experience it is a great feeling for some players who never killed them before to actually succeed after some tries. Yes, there are groups that get frustrated and player leave but that's normally the case when there is a different skill level among players. If some players want to learn and others (experienced players) just want to get their dailies done it can lead to frustration. But if u set up a LFG and clearly state it's a learning/beginner group that's not a problem. Because if experienced players join those groups, they know what they get and just want to help.

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@Randulf.7614 said:Slightly off topic, but how does Cold War compare? I tried it early on but it was heavily bugged and have't returned since. I had assumed it was the hardest of the Strikes, but is that not the case? I consider myself average at best

The hardest is Boneskinner, followed by WoJ I guess. Though boneskinner is easy with a group that knows what to do it can be hard if there's just one player who doesn't know what to do. Cold War is just a little bit more stressful for healers if u have a group that splits up or players running off on their own. But mostly Cold War is fairly easy I think. Maybe a bit harder than Kodan

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@"Randulf.7614" said:Slightly off topic, but how does Cold War compare? I tried it early on but it was heavily bugged and have't returned since. I had assumed it was the hardest of the Strikes, but is that not the case? I consider myself average at best

I've done Cold War over 100 times at this rate ; I'm actually the first one to put up a guide on the wiki.The first part has no fail state. You can literally wipe and it will only affect the chests given out at the end. Some people actually just "gg" and afk the 8 min timer to open the instance for their guildmates just to get the weekly chest.If you actually want maximum or close to maximum end chests , the first part requires large amounts of cleave (i.e. AOE) and pulls and someone to take care of choppers with the chaarzookas that spawn after defeating a Cannoneer. The "mini-bosses" essentially have the effects the boss will have , each one will have one additional effect. If you don't take care of choppers they will drop bombs on your group and also you will be unable to charge the artillery guns effectively. Charging the artillery guns unlocks a large AoE artillery strike so you should save the special action for a large group of enemies.

To fully understand the strike's boss fight (which requires about 4K DPS per squad member to complete successfully within the 7 min timer) , there's only two major things to know:

  1. Varinia will call for assassins and then that will make red circles. It's the same red circle mechanic as in other strikes because people zone out on the boss fight they're highly liable to down from it. All other non-effect damage is non lethal more or less. If you dodge outward when she has the popup chatbox over her you should have zero issue.
  2. The effects Frigid Footfalls and Icy Echoes rotate based on week , two out of three weeks are Icy Echoes.---> This week it is Icy Echoes which pulses damage per 2 seconds, so with it comes the green circle mechanic (stack green) and a chill pulse (jump it or just cleanse it).---> If it is Frigid footfalls that is an armor ignoring 10% damage per tick with perma chill if you stand in it. From my testing on various classes, it is roughly 200 radius because a holosmith in Photon Forge is able to hit as well as in bomb kit. The easiest way to deal with it is simply running a scourge (especially with 5s cooldown on Nefarious Favor) or a tempest heavy comp stacked just outside the radius of the Frigid Footfalls. The "meta" professions that can stand in it are heal firebrands and alacrity renegades with Dance of Death traited as in the meta build. You could theoretically run Invigorating Precision on a staff daredevil , or run scrapper, but that's not optimal for the first half which favors large cleave. When it is Frigid Footfalls week then it will also be a reflect week (Frozen barrier), which is why you wouldn't want to run a projectile type build such as condi Berserker or Condi soulbeast.

Builds for both weeks , so you don't have to pay attention to the week:

  • Condi Scourge with Spectral Grasp (make alacrity on people during Frigid Footfalls week with Nefarious Favor)
  • DPS Fresh air Tempest
  • Heal Firebrand (quickness)/ Heal Druid (for might , does not need to stack in Frigid Footfalls)
  • Alacrity renegade

Other notes:

  • Guardian cQB isn't an option with a 1-2 heal comp because you will implode when people don't pay attention and keep attacking with Icy echoes up ; also dies quickly with inadequate healing on Frigid Footfalls
  • Berserker is good normally but it doesn't have range and without pulls it can't hit things far away : a huge liability for Frigid Footfalls because of the large health pool (it's armor ignoring 10% base health and warrior has some of the largest health pool along with necro)
  • Mirage is a disaster because clones die and it's basically useless for first half ; chrono is a bit better for first half if you do 10 man quickness with focus pulls and don't run mostly boon duration gear but you won't have any decent usability of clones at the boss fight and you will be taking damage in melee range in the boss fight
  • Thief just doesn't have any ranged AoE outside shortbow which isn't enough to bring one ; for the boss fight you would want to run Invigorating Precision
  • You can run holo for the first half if it isn't Frigid footfalls week (Photon Blitz is reflected by Frozen Barrier). Scrapper is usable for the boss fight regardless of week.
  • General note : In theory you can disable all the effects on Varinia by breaking her CC bar, but the CC bar comes back up quite quickly (even when using EMP 2.0) and people just don't pay attention so it's better to build a squad with the idea of people autoattacking half the fight.
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@Lurana.7506 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Slightly off topic, but how does Cold War compare? I tried it early on but it was heavily bugged and have't returned since. I had assumed it was the hardest of the Strikes, but is that not the case? I consider myself average at best

The hardest is Boneskinner, followed by WoJ I guess. Though boneskinner is easy with a group that knows what to do it can be hard if there's just one player who doesn't know what to do. Cold War is just a little bit more stressful for healers if u have a group that splits up or players running off on their own. But mostly Cold War is fairly easy I think. Maybe a bit harder than Kodan

OK thanks, maybe I will brave it next time it is on priority

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@Infusion.7149 said:

@"Randulf.7614" said:Slightly off topic, but how does Cold War compare? I tried it early on but it was heavily bugged and have't returned since. I had assumed it was the hardest of the Strikes, but is that not the case? I consider myself average at best

I've done Cold War over 100 times at this rate ; I'm actually the first one to put up a guide on the wiki.The first part has no fail state. You can literally wipe and it will only affect the chests given out at the end. Some people actually just "gg" and afk the 8 min timer to open the instance for their guildmates just to get the weekly chest.If you actually want maximum or close to maximum end chests , the first part requires large amounts of cleave (i.e. AOE) and pulls and someone to take care of choppers with the chaarzookas that spawn after defeating a Cannoneer. The "mini-bosses" essentially have the effects the boss will have , each one will have one additional effect. If you don't take care of choppers they will drop bombs on your group and also you will be unable to charge the artillery guns effectively. Charging the artillery guns unlocks a large AoE artillery strike so you should save the special action for a large group of enemies.

To fully understand the strike's boss fight (which requires about 4K DPS per squad member to complete successfully within the 7 min timer) , there's only two major things to know:
  1. Varinia will call for assassins and then that will make red circles. It's the same red circle mechanic as in other strikes because people zone out on the boss fight they're highly liable to down from it. All other non-effect damage is non lethal more or less. If you dodge outward when she has the popup chatbox over her you should have zero issue.
  2. The effects Frigid Footfalls and Icy Echoes rotate based on week , two out of three weeks are Icy Echoes.---> This week it is Icy Echoes which pulses damage per 2 seconds, so with it comes the green circle mechanic (stack green) and a chill pulse (jump it or just cleanse it).---> If it is Frigid footfalls that is an armor ignoring 10% damage per tick with perma chill if you stand in it. From my testing on various classes, it is roughly 200 radius because a holosmith in Photon Forge is able to hit as well as in bomb kit. The easiest way to deal with it is simply running a scourge (especially with 5s cooldown on Nefarious Favor) or a tempest heavy comp stacked just outside the radius of the Frigid Footfalls. The "meta" professions that can stand in it are heal firebrands and alacrity renegades with Dance of Death traited as in the meta build. You could theoretically run Invigorating Precision on a staff daredevil , or run scrapper, but that's not optimal for the first half which favors large cleave. When it is Frigid Footfalls week then it will also be a reflect week (Frozen barrier), which is why you wouldn't want to run a projectile type build such as condi Berserker or Condi soulbeast.

Builds for both weeks , so you don't have to pay attention to the week:
  • Condi Scourge with Spectral Grasp (make alacrity on people during Frigid Footfalls week with Nefarious Favor)
  • DPS Fresh air Tempest
  • Heal Firebrand (quickness)/ Heal Druid (for might , does not need to stack in Frigid Footfalls)
  • Alacrity renegade

Thanks for this. I'll try and abosrb it all before I go in

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@"Infusion.7149" said:The first part has no fail state. You can literally wipe and it will only affect the chests given out at the end. Some people actually just "gg" and afk the 8 min timer to open the instance for their guildmates just to get the weekly chest.

It may have worked before but it doesn’t anymore. When you gg, it revives you back at the entrance and the timer stops.

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@Lurana.7506 said:I disagree. There are enough easy strike missions and by nerf WoJ and Boneskinner the whole point of strikes leading to raids would be gone. I've done WoJ and Boneskinner with many PUG groups - sometimes as commander and in that case never asked for KP or LI - and even though Boneskinner may be hard with PUGs killed both of them succesfully many times. In my experience it is a great feeling for some players who never killed them before to actually succeed after some tries. Yes, there are groups that get frustrated and player leave but that's normally the case when there is a different skill level among players. If some players want to learn and others (experienced players) just want to get their dailies done it can lead to frustration. But if u set up a LFG and clearly state it's a learning/beginner group that's not a problem. Because if experienced players join those groups, they know what they get and just want to help.

the only part i dont agree with like many other people who make this argument is that boneskinners mechanics are nearly fully ignored not because its easier but because the intended mechanics are bad to perform in comparison to the time given for good rewards. If strikes are intended to be stepping stones to raids why would you want a strike that teaches people to basically not perform mechanics and embraces the brute force method (which is exactly what the meta strategy for boneskinner is currently)

But yes the rest of your statement is generally facts.

Brute force certainly can work but thats a far cry from some peoples skill levels in the game especially those with no raid exp.

Im ok with Brute force being an option or even a meta option but it kind of bugs me that its the only option only because the intended mechanical way is just poorly constructed in comparison to time given to complete the strike for good rewards it is designed rather poorly compared to all other strikes.

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No, get good. Strikes are a "stepping stone to raids" which means there is an increase in difficulty. Even a dog would learn with a bit of training that when the owner raises his arm he should move to the side. That's literally what you have to do at boneskinner. The aoes on the ground appear when he raises his right arm.

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@"aaron.7850" said:I know the fights well and I never die any of their attacks, but as a commander with 0 friends I always lead PUG strikes and accept anyone who joins with open arms and no elitism, but I often get groups that no matter how much I patiently explain the mechanics some groups keep wiping and wiping, leading to toxicity, frustration and disbanding.

Those two fights are disproportionately hard when compared to all the other strikes. And In support of our soon-to-be steam neighbors I propose some adecuate nerfs to ensure everyone is having fun, which is what games should be all about.

I am not saying Anet should turn them into cake-walks, but the difficulty should be between Bears and Cold-War... not cold-war x3 times harder.These "you must change x thing I don't like/struggle with because Steam" threads are getting so played out.

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@"Xca.9721" said:If you don´t like challenges, feel free to do the easier strikes. Boneskinner and WoJ are both easy fights that punish you for not paying attention to simple mechanics. Not every strike boss should be beatable by mindlessly spamming autoattack.

This tbh. Just unbug both strikes, which'll probably make whisper "easier" (though it's really just avoiding a random oneshot potential), and boneskinner harder :D

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@ZDragon.3046 said:1 Fix the bugs, can i dodge ice spikes or not 50% of the time I can 50% of the time it wont let me even when timed correctly.It seems to be some kind of a desync problem - basically all spikes for all players are supposed to hit at the same time, but sometimes they are a little bit off, so you can dodge one spike just to be hit by the one from other player immediately afterward. It's even worse when spikes happen during the flying part, because the attack while in mid-flight seems to be often desynced compared to the on-ground indicator.Seriously look at Whisper in its post 25% phase having it bugg out and spam every single attack at once is super frustrating and can turn a solid gold run in to a bronze run.Yeah, that can be definitely annoying. Some attack combos should not be allowed, and there should be a limit for how many can happen at the same time.

@"Lurana.7506" said:I disagree. There are enough easy strike missions and by nerf WoJ and Boneskinner the whole point of strikes leading to raids would be gone.There was never a point to it, tbh. People that do not like raids won;t suddenly start liking them "because strikes". Nor will strikes cause a general increase in overall player skill. That one was a failed plan from the very beginning. Assuming that it was even a serious plan to begin with, instead of being a PR measure to soften the effect of announcing that raids are getting abandoned.

@lokh.2695 said:The game should not change, just because it's going on steam.That i agree on. Those bosses should be changed because there are several problems with them as they are currently, not due to steam.

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I don’t see what this, and other similar thread have to do with Steam players. It’s as if people are just taking the opportunity to request whatever it is that they personally want under the guise of it being for Steam players. Many of these suggestions would really have no impact on Steam players.

What Anet should focus on, if they were to do anything in the first place, is improving the experience for those starting the game as brand new players. This could be fixing those broken core Tyria events, lightening up on the NPE restrictions, etc. You know, things that would directly impact players, such as those from Steam, and increase the chances of retaining them.

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@sitarskee.5738 said:I thought that harder content is what kept people motivated to keep playing and getting better in order to get better stuff. Oh, wait. It's GW2.Actually, that's not GW2 specific. The motivation you speak of is something that affects only a minority of players in any mmorpg. Most players just want a content they can use to kill time.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@sitarskee.5738 said:I thought that harder content is what kept people motivated to keep playing and getting better in order to get better stuff. Oh, wait. It's GW2.Actually, that's not GW2 specific. The motivation you speak of is something that affects only a minority of players in
any
mmorpg. Most players just want a content they can use to kill time.

Isn't any content in a video game basically killing time?

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