Old Phantasms on next E-spec, PLEASE

[Hibiskus.8294]

I know this sounds weird, i left the game a while ago, at the moment as they scrapped the old phantasms and made them one cast then turn into a clone, i tried other classes but had no real fun with them (i only play pve, i am not so much into pvp) and of course i tried to love the "new" mesmer phantasms (they said they scrapped the old ones because they wanted to play us in different ways)...but honestly: i was feeling like i was forced to play a shatter build, need dmg? Build up clones and shatter them, summon your phantasm? See how it misses the target because the ground was a little uneven, congrats you have a clone...what will you do with your clone? Of course shatter them as fast as possible, because they can not really take many hits, die when your target dies (well if you use your axe skill you could maybe "rescue" them from dying) and on their own they do little to no dmg, so shatter them...After a while i found myself looking for other games (well no other game really catches my attention, eso is pretty interesting but the lag and the server issues are real there...., so i still look to gw2 from time to time, if they ever introduce more race based outfits (as that would ever happen, cook and wedding attire were to good to be true) i would be back).

NOW they announced the next expansion and even if i read many interesting concepts about possible new E-Specs my only wish is an E-Spec that has the old high hp, high dmg phantasms, i dont care if the mesmer then is not able to use clones anymore, i just want my old phantasms back, reduce the max number to 1 out at a time and 2 if you choosed a trait for it, i dont care what weapon this spec gets...short: this is a please bring back the old system with phantasms, i even gave a cookie to the ppl saying "mesmer to strong", the name of the cookie is "no clones if you use the new e-spec" , as far as i know both mesmer e-specs have downsides : chrono can only shatter if a clone is active and mirage has only 1 dodge, so the new e-spec gets old phantasms but cant summon clones, hmmm, did any other class get an e-spec with downsides? (that is something that i wonder), anyway: what do you think of my boring wish? (as some concepts here are really interesting i think that will never happen, but i really needed to ask after that long time not beeing active...).

[otto.5684]

I am not sure what about the old system you are missing. Shattering phantasms? Also, phantasm, at least in pve (except staff) deal more damage than any point in the past.

And generally speaking, Mesmer and all classes should move away from the one shooting designs. So trying to buff shatter 1 in any form is not a good idea.

And the next spec is more likely than not to be ranged with shatters changed in a way to suit ranged game play.

[Tayga.3192]

@"otto.5684" said:I am not sure what about the old system you are missing.

Probably because phantasms are currently "any other skill but it generates a clone in the end", while before if you wanted damage you refrained yourself from shattering (trade off).

[Taril.8619]

I highly doubt this would ever happen. Shattering is too integral to Mesmer as a whole, just look through their traits, most of them are related to using shatters.

Also, the "Gameplay" that was old Phantasms, was literally, use your Phantasm skill 3 times, then AFK the rest of the fight because now 90% of your skills are useless because they would replace a buffed up Phantasm.

Even more so, when Chronomancer is currently the "Phantasm Build" due to Chronophantasma trait which makes the Phantasms it uses super strong. Having an additional spec that is also Phantasm based seems unlikely.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Taril.8619 said:I highly doubt this would ever happen. Shattering is too integral to Mesmer as a whole, just look through their traits, most of them are related to using shatters.

I think it's possible if the shatters were replaced with something that worked with phantasms in some way.

The bigger problem would be that of what happens with the existing clone skills if clones were removed. A possible approach could be to swap around the current approach: Phantasms are limited to a certain maximum number, while clones are theoretically unlimited but have a limited lifespan before they pop on their own. And, as I said, shatters are replaced with skills that influence phantasms. So phantasm skills are still worth using since they renew the phantasms, but you avoid the problem old mesmer had of not wanting to use clone skills because the clones would overwrite phantasms.

[Hibiskus.8294]

@otto.5684 said:I am not sure what about the old system you are missing. Shattering phantasms? Also, phantasm, at least in pve (except staff) deal more damage than any point in the past.

And generally speaking, Mesmer and all classes should move away from the one shooting designs. So trying to buff shatter 1 in any form is not a good idea.

Oh no, i DONT want to shatter them, i want to keep them ( and reduce the number of max summoned to 1, 2 with trait), ehm why does summoning phantasms buff shatter 1 in any form? The dmg is based on the max number summoned and not on the hp or dmg the clones or phantasms deal, so reducing the max number summoned would do the exact opposite of buffing shatter 1, it would nerf it.

@"Tayga.3192" said:

Probably because phantasms are currently "any other skill but it generates a clone in the end", while before if you wanted damage you refrained yourself from shattering (trade off).

Yes, i want a trade of: keep them so they can deal dmg and pull a little bit aggro away, so you can maybe get the heal casted OR shatter them for fast dmg? You needed to decide, at the moment it is just shatter them, it is the only option, because they turn into clones after attacking once and clones are only useful for shattering.

@"Taril.8619" said:

Also, the "Gameplay" that was old Phantasms, was literally, use your Phantasm skill 3 times, then AFK the rest of the fight because now 90% of your skills are useless because they would replace a buffed up phantasm.

Hm, i never afk'ed while playing with summoned phantasms, i mean the groups of enemies are big in pof, often have at least 1 "big guy" in it and your phantasm worked in 1 way like a clone: if the enemie died your phantasm wich focused on that enemie died too, it does not switch targets, afk is something that i think works for necro because the summoned minions from neco stay instead of shatter if enemie dies/ you are out of fight.

@"draxynnic.3719" said:

The bigger problem would be that of what happens with the existing clone skills if clones were removed. A possible approach could be to swap around the current approach: Phantasms are limited to a certain maximum number, while clones are theoretically unlimited but have a limited lifespan before they pop on their own. And, as I said, shatters are replaced with skills that influence phantasms. So phantasm skills are still worth using since they renew the phantasms, but you avoid the problem old mesmer had of not wanting to use clone skills because the clones would overwrite phantasms.

Well yes, why not? Mesmers looked at druid and seen that f1 - f4 got replaced, same for other e-specs, while mesmer always keep the shatter f1 - f4, chrono got f5, but that got merged into the other f skills a while ago, so getting something else for the first time for f1 - f4 would be great. I mean: fighting alongside a "mirror twin" would be great, i would give up on clones and on shatter f1 to get something different than a shatter build.

[Kodama.6453]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"otto.5684" said:I am not sure what about the old system you are missing.

Probably because phantasms are currently "any other skill but it generates a clone in the end", while before if you wanted damage you refrained yourself from shattering (trade off).

It's a weird trade off, considering that half of the shatter abilities are supposed to be damage sources.So your statement boils down to "if you want damage, don't use these damage skills".

Mind wreck and cry of frustration become pointless because of this, since their purpose is to deal damage, yet if you want to maximize damage you have to avoid using them.It makes no sense.

[Tayga.3192]

@"Kodama.6453" said:It's a weird trade off, considering that half of the shatter abilities are supposed to be damage sources.So your statement boils down to "if you want damage, don't use these damage skills".

Mind wreck and cry of frustration become pointless because of this, since their purpose is to deal damage, yet if you want to maximize damage you have to avoid using them.It makes no sense.

Now you must rely on shatters and "fire and forget" phantasms for damage.Before you could make a shatter mesmer or a phantasm mesmer.

[otto.5684]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:It's a weird trade off, considering that half of the shatter abilities are supposed to be damage sources.So your statement boils down to "if you want damage, don't use these damage skills".

Mind wreck and cry of frustration become pointless because of this, since their purpose is to deal damage, yet if you want to maximize damage you have to avoid using them.It makes no sense.

Now you must rely on shatters and "fire and forget" phantasms for damage.Before you could make a shatter mesmer or a phantasm mesmer.

First, the old system never worked well in PvE. You had to wait for them to finish your attack before you shatter. That is why it changes to begin with. Mesmer did not have a single functional dps build, in PvE, till PoF for a reason.

Second, sword, focus, GS and pistol phantasm all deal more damage than they ever did at any point before in PvE. So... nothing missing here.

The only advantage the old system offered was the ability to shatter phantasm, which was primarily used to pull off a quick full F1 shatter in PvP. And mostly paired with invisibility so You can pull off one shooting the target, before they has no can react.

And phantasm were always one skill you use that summons a clone in the end. There is nothing different about it now than before, except the phantasms do not shatter.

The old system was terrible. It was a hinderance in PvE and in PvP only fed designs in that need to be removed to begin with. This should never ever come back in any form. Just admit you want easier way to one shoot people in PvP. That’s all what is to it.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

I’m honestly looking forward to an espec where I don’t have to rely on phantasms (and clones to an extent) anymore.

Your suggestions sounds like what mirage already has tbh (illusions that hang around and do some meaningful stuff), you can see how that’s been complained about and nerfed. Still seems to be doing fine in PvE if that’s what your concerned about (still has 2 dodges there).

The old phantasms weren’t particularly all that useful, they kinda did what they do now (except weaker), and then they just afk’ed for 5 (swordsman) to 10++ seconds (every other one). I don’t think they were any tankier either.

If you wanted an army of illusions, chrono has that ‘clutter-your-screen-magic’; it just requires you to be actually somewhat active about it and the downside you mentioned doesn’t actually exist anymore.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

I'd take the old phantasmal defender over the new one any day of the wekk

[draxynnic.3719]

@otto.5684 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:It's a weird trade off, considering that half of the shatter abilities are supposed to be damage sources.So your statement boils down to "if you want damage, don't use these damage skills".

Mind wreck and cry of frustration become pointless because of this, since their purpose is to deal damage, yet if you want to maximize damage you have to avoid using them.It makes no sense.

Now you must rely on shatters and "fire and forget" phantasms for damage.Before you could make a shatter mesmer or a phantasm mesmer.

First, the old system never worked well in PvE. You had to wait for them to finish your attack before you shatter. That is why it changes to begin with. Mesmer did not have a single functional dps build, in PvE, till PoF for a reason.

Second, sword, focus, GS and pistol phantasm all deal more damage than they ever did at any point before in PvE. So... nothing missing here.

The only advantage the old system offered was the ability to shatter phantasm, which was primarily used to pull off a quick full F1 shatter in PvP. And mostly paired with invisibility so You can pull off one shooting the target, before they has no can react.

And phantasm were always one skill you use that summons a clone in the end. There is nothing different about it now than before, except the phantasms do not shatter.

The old system was terrible. It was a hinderance in PvE and in PvP only fed designs in that need to be removed to begin with. This should never ever come back in any form. Just admit you want easier way to one shoot people in PvP. That’s all what is to it.

Your finishing line here is disingenuous - the OP seems to be inclined towards removing shatters altogether, therefore no opportunity to speed up a spike by shattering phantasms prematurely.

The old system did have a tradeoff. You could shatter phantasms along with your clones for a spike, or you could leave the phantasms out for sustained damage. In PvE, leaving your highest-damage phantasms out usually resulted in more sustained damage in the long term than if you shatter. In PvP, you usually wanted to shatter because the phantasms wouldn't last long enough to ramp up anyway, and even if they did, usually you want to spike in PvP.

The current system removes that tradeoff. Even PvE mirages usually want to shatter, since if they time it right they'll have a new set of clones back up basically immediately altogether.

Making it an elite specialisation would mean that instead of it being a choice you make during the combat, it's a choice you make at the build level. If the shatter skills are replaced, persistent phantasms would no longer be balanced around the fact that the build always has the option to shatter for a spike to finish off the target as well. This would allow, for instance, for mesmers to have PvP builds that are not built primarily around shatter spikes, and thus are more suitable for sustained fighting. Or just having a different way of fighting enemies in PvE.

[otto.5684]

@draxynnic.3719 Again, vast majority of shattering phantasm was trying to pull off 1 shoot in PvP. Other than that, in some niche situations in PvE it was useful, but most of the time it was working against. If this was a major trait, no one would use it in PvE.

Even if there was a trade off, it was bad design in all game modes (for different reasons) and was removed. It should never come back.

[draxynnic.3719]

@otto.5684 said:@draxynnic.3719 Again, vast majority of shattering phantasm was trying to pull off 1 shoot in PvP. Other than that, in some niche situations in PvE it was useful, but most of the time it was working against. If this was a major trait, no one would use it in PvE.

Even if there was a trade off, it was bad design in all game modes (for different reasons) and was removed. It should never come back.

The whole point is that shattering could be removed, and the elite specialisation could then be balanced accordingly. The problem with the old mesmer was that it was trying to balance having both the option to have sustained damage through keeping the phantasms out and to have spikes through shattering, but these interfered with each other. Keeping the phantasms out usually did more damage than shattering them, but the profession needed to be balanced on the basis that it always could shatter for a big spike. Packing it into an elite specialisation without shatters (but with something else in the F1-F4 slots) would solve that problem.

A lot of people have said that they enjoyed the old mesmer more than the new mesmer. You evidently disagree, but one elite spec that isn't for you won't kill you.

[Hibiskus.8294]

@"otto.5684" said:

And phantasm were always one skill you use that summons a clone in the end. There is nothing different about it now than before, except the phantasms do not shatter.

Erm, No? Phantasms were a skill with a phantasm, it lived and did dmg until you shattered it or it died, it was easier to see that it was not the mesmer because, well pink and shiny, biggest difference between phantasm and clone was:

phantasm: high hp, high power dmg, nearly no condi dmg, pink and shiny.clone: low hp, low dmg, good condi dmg, but best for shatter spikes, looks exatly like the mesmer.

"Always summoned a clone at the end" , is not true, we had a trait that allowed us that a shattered phantasm got replaced with a clone (if you did not used that trait there was never a clone that replaced the phantasm if you shattered the phantasm) and before that every new summoned clone replaced the phantasm (it shattered itself), they changed that so that if you had the maximum number of clones and phantasm out you simply did not summoned a new one (and so you did no longer overwrite your summoned phantasm) until one got destroyed /shattered.

So you always had the choice: destroy for high dmg or keep for long term dmg and a little bit tank in pve (mostly to pull aggro away from you for a short time, so that you could get the needed heal.)

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

The old phantasms weren’t particularly all that useful, they kinda did what they do now (except weaker), and then they just afk’ed for 5 (swordsman) to 10++ seconds (every other one). I don’t think they were any tankier either.

Again: I never saw someone afk as a mesmer with a phantasm, they always got fast destroyed in pvp and in pve if they took to much dmg OR their target died, they always died if their target died (big difference to necro minions) and of course you could use them FOR short term tanking (or to say: the phantasm attacked after summoning while you yourself with very low hp stopped to attack so the aggro from the enemies swapped for a short time to the phantasm, now you gained the needed seconds to cast your heal (wich maybe was on CD seconds before), now with clones it feels like a hit and run, because no clone is really able to take aggro away (to low self dmg, just good for shatter dmg) and IF it takes aggro it is an instant dead for the poor clone (i mean: they are one hit).

@"draxynnic.3719" said:

The whole point is that shattering could be removed, and the elite specialisation could then be balanced accordingly. The problem with the old mesmer was that it was trying to balance having both the option to have sustained damage through keeping the phantasms out and to have spikes through shattering, but these interfered with each other. Keeping the phantasms out usually did more damage than shattering them, but the profession needed to be balanced on the basis that it always could shatter for a big spike. Packing it into an elite specialisation without shatters (but with something else in the F1-F4 slots) would solve that problem.

A lot of people have said that they enjoyed the old mesmer more than the new mesmer. You evidently disagree, but one elite spec that isn't for you won't kill you.

Someone got the point: an elite spec that has nothing to do anymore with shatters and fast dmg and more with sustained dmg and replaced f1 -f4 skills, because yes: having both phantasms AND clones interfered with each other and was not really good to balance, but a new elite spec wont hurt if it takes the shatters away and replace them with sustain (i mean before druid everyone said: healers would never work here in gw2 and now all say that it was a great idea to implement the druid "a welcome change, a fresh breeze for the game" and looking at the soulbeast: a hunter without pet, but with the ability to use the pet skills a great idea).

So yes: You GOT THE POINT, because a third elite spec with the same old shatters sounds really boring, looking at all the other classes that got fresh new ideas for f1-f4 while we have 2 specs with the same old shatters, i would love to have the old phantasms reworked into a new elite spec with new f1 - f4.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

@Hibiskus.8294 said:

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

The old phantasms weren’t particularly all that useful, they kinda did what they do now (except weaker), and then they just afk’ed for 5 (swordsman) to 10++ seconds (every other one). I don’t think they were any tankier either.

Again: I never saw someone afk as a mesmer with a phantasm, they always got fast destroyed in pvp and in pve if they took to much dmg OR their target died, they always died if their target died (big difference to necro minions) and of course you could use them FOR short term tanking (or to say: the phantasm attacked after summoning while you yourself with very low hp stopped to attack so the aggro from the enemies swapped for a short time to the phantasm, now you gained the needed seconds to cast your heal (wich maybe was on CD seconds before), now with clones it feels like a hit and run, because no clone is really able to take aggro away (to low self dmg, just good for shatter dmg) and IF it takes aggro it is an instant dead for the poor clone (i mean: they are one hit).

No, what I meant was after the phantasm does their first attack, they did nothing for the next 5-10 seconds, in which we know in this day and age, they would be cleaved to death in competitive game modes because they were just standing there. It wasn’t great for PvE either, as people here say you could keep them for sustained dmg... in reality (maybe apart from ONLY swordsman), they all practically performed a lv1 shatter burst under basically the same CD. Mirage clones work much better for this aspect because they’re much more active.

Phantasms aren’t/weren’t particularly great at tanking either, if by any chance your clones are being oneshot, then any phantasm (save for defender) will get oneshot as well, or twoshot if you’re lucky. And aggro is not based off that much from dmg - if your phantasm is even able to draw aggro, then it is likely a clone summoned in a similar way will also draw the same aggro. It’s essentially the same as throwing another player or minion with low hp and some dmg into the fray for both cases, and illusions do not have any hidden special aggro properties that make them better at doing so.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Hibiskus.8294 said:Again: I never saw someone afk as a mesmer with a phantasm

Have to admit, I've done it myself, but it was due to a bug where a story boss in season 2 wasn't phasing when it was supposed to, and the boss was immune to all of my attacks but not to the phantasms. The boss in question also had fairly low damage in the phase it was stuck in, and I had a fairly tanky set of phantasms between traits and using Phantasmal Defender.

Generally speaking, though, like ranger pets, you still wanted to be actively fighting even with a phantasm build.

[viquing.8254]

Fact is that defender and disenchanter were more used before rework than now...

[Xaylin.1860]

This can hardly solely be attributed to the general Phantasm rework. They reworked both, Disenchanter and Defender. Plus, they were later nerfed for PvP/WvW. Personally, I think the change of their effects might be the biggest culprit here, not the Phantasm rework.

How Phantasms work isn't perfect but I personally prefer how it is nowadays.

[Taril.8619]

@draxynnic.3719 said:This would allow, for instance, for mesmers to have PvP builds that are not built primarily around shatter spikes, and thus are more suitable for sustained fighting.

As if a persistent Phantasm reliant build would ever be even remotely close to be usable in PvP/WvW.

When even now with a heavy focus on Shatters, Mesmer is not great in PvP/WvW because Phantasms and Clones die too easily.

@viquing.8254 said:Fact is that defender and disenchanter were more used before rework than now...

Disenchanter is used a lot actually. It's literally part of the meta Power Chrono DPS build in PvE.

Outside of that, the reason they're not used is because;

1) Other builds have better Utilities to run. I.e. Boon Chrono runs Wells and Signet of Inspiration. Mirage runs the 2 condi boost Signets and Crystal Sands. PvP/WvW builds run things that aren't Phantasms because Phantasms suck in those modes.2) Phantasms were all nerfed because Chrono being able to double the duration of Phantasms with Chronophantasma was OP and so all Phantasms were brought down in power level as a result of this (In addition to the trait being nerfed with the daze between Phantasm attacks being implemented and increased several times)

An E-Spec with perma-Phantasms, would result in even more nerfs to Phantasm performance (Either globally, or specific to that build) and likely wouldn't improve their usage much, if at all. Especially if the E-Spec itself, came with its own set of utilities which could be comparable to them and likely might be better.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Taril.8619 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:This would allow, for instance, for mesmers to have PvP builds that are

not

built primarily around shatter spikes, and thus are more suitable for sustained fighting.

As if a persistent Phantasm reliant build would ever be even remotely close to be usable in PvP/WvW.

When

even now

with a heavy focus on Shatters, Mesmer is not great in PvP/WvW because Phantasms and Clones die too easily.

In an elite spec without shatters, ArenaNet would be able to rebalance without needing to keep the spike potential of shatters under control. Which could include increasing the durability of phantasms. And, for that matter, the mesmer themselves through utilities and replacement function key skills.

In PvP contexts, it'll probably still have the issue of being AI-controlled entities in PvP, but they're not as bad with mesmer in general due to illusions having specified targets.

[Taril.8619]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Taril.8619 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:This would allow, for instance, for mesmers to have PvP builds that are

not

built primarily around shatter spikes, and thus are more suitable for sustained fighting.

As if a persistent Phantasm reliant build would ever be even remotely close to be usable in PvP/WvW.

When

even now

with a heavy focus on Shatters, Mesmer is not great in PvP/WvW because Phantasms and Clones die too easily.

In an elite spec without shatters, ArenaNet would be able to rebalance without needing to keep the spike potential of shatters under control. Which could include increasing the durability of phantasms. And, for that matter, the mesmer themselves through utilities and replacement function key skills.

In which case, they'd have their damage (Thus the E-Spec) nuked to worthlessness.

Since ANet really doesn't want AI controlled entities to be in any way good in PvP/WvW. Hence the terrible state of Minions, Turrets and largely Ranger Companions (There's been some cheesey stuff with for example Birds bursting people and of course there's Soulbeast that has 5s CD insta-pet revive in the form of merging... But other than that, they're pretty mediocre at best)

This is the crux of the inability for a Perma-Phantasm E-Spec to be viable in PvP/WvW modes. Either they'll be too glassy and easy to kill and so people can kill them and they'll do nothing (Just like can happen when trying to shatter, hence why people like to stealth into melee range and shatterbomb before the opponent can react and kill the illusions/phantasms), or they'll be too tanky and ANet will gut their damage.

Realistically, a Perma-Phantasm E-Spec can only really work in PvE. In which case, such a niche is largely already taken by Chrono due to its heavy focus on Phantasm damage due to Chronophantasma.

Sure, Chrono doesn't come with F skills that make Phantasms do something, but they still have Phantasms up for a large amount of time due to weapon swapping to access Phantasm skills on both weapons, using Phantasmal Disenchanter, using Signet of the Ether to reset their Phantasm CD's and of course using Continuum Split to double/triple cast their Phantasms - All boosted by Chronophantasma to attack twice (Which is especially notable for Phantasms like Swordsman, Warden and Duelist who attack over a few seconds)

Chrono is by all accounts, Mesmer's "Phantasm Spec". With Mirage having heavy focus on Clones thanks to Infinite Horizon (Also the nature of Condi weapon clones which deal actual damage via Condis) and as such being Mesmer's "Clone Spec". It's possible that the next E-Spec might focus on Shatters to replace Core as the "Shatter Spec"

[Dante.1508]

Agreed op release mesmer was far superior to what we have now..

[Xaylin.1860]

@"Taril.8619" said:Chrono is by all accounts, Mesmer's "Phantasm Spec". With Mirage having heavy focus on Clones thanks to Infinite Horizon (Also the nature of Condi weapon clones which deal actual damage via Condis) and as such being Mesmer's "Clone Spec". It's possible that the next E-Spec might focus on Shatters to replace Core as the "Shatter Spec"

Well, let's be honest here. While the concepts for both, Chrono and Mirage, are interesting, ANet failed to implement them in a meaningful way when it comes to gameplay. At their respective introduction they might have been good but after balancing - which quite often consisted of nerfs to the baseline class - it is quite obvious that they're not designed well mechanically. They basically play like baseline Mesmer but with some gimmicks ontop. They pretty badly need a proper rework, not just "new" Shatters which are basically the same as core. For example, well-like Shatters on Chrono and Venom/Enchantment-like and Ambush triggering Shatters on Mirage. However, I doubt ANet got the resources to spend time on that. It's just not reasonable from a business point of view. Especially since those aren't the only e-Specs with issues.

But yes, I guess a Shatter focussed spec is what we're missing unless you count baseline Mesmer as the Shatter spec. Considering the current track record for Mesmer, I have low expectations for the class mechanic of a potential third e-Spec, though. Which is rather sad, I guess. But that's where I'm at personally. Even Tempest feels like it makes a bigger change to the class which says a lot.

Still, pretty excited for the new add on.

[viquing.8254]

@Xaylin.1860, @Taril.8619 :

From a PvP perspective, old disenchanter or defender meant :

• With defender, a way to sustain better on point which opened other builds from the classical condichrono. Now we have somethings who didn't give any sustain, is static and never hit.
• With disenchanter : A third option to condiclear/boonrip apart AT. Now that you can only boonrip with it, you can't use it because of the condiclear loss aspect + the high CD which make it useless against 80% of situation where people pop multiple low duration boon.

Glad it's use in PvE but in my gamemode it went from 20% uses before rework to 0% after the end balancing(nerf) their rework.Even by removing all other utilities I don't think defender can ever be good in PvP and disenchanter would be at best another damaging utility....

Note : I always find chronophantasma as a things who never should exists because of the balance problems who result...