flamethrower dps too high and gives perma stab

[felix.2386]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@felix.2386 said:

@Azreell.1568 said:This is why this game mode continues to lose players.

A non meta, low tier build and you people want to nerf it.

It doesn't over perform nor does it get a high ranking in any season - yet because its annoying for some to fight they want to destroy it then wonder why we have no build diversity in this game mode.

GG

this game mode keeps losing players because these kind of braindead toxic builds keep existing and not getting dealt with and it's just braindead gameplay that nobody but PvE heroes for dailies find it fun.you are not really making sense sorry

How is that build toxic in any way?It's not overperforming and is also easily countered by alot of stuff.

Retaliation deals alot of damage to someone camping flamethrower.The weapon struggles to hit anyone not on the same level as you, so if you are standing under or above them, they won't hit you with their flamethrower. Which means using the terrain counters that weapon pretty hard and that is a skill that every PvP player should learn at some point.

Condition damage works fairly well against them, that build has 1 condition removal in the arsenal usually and that most of the time won't be enough against condition heavy enemies.Boon removal and especially boon corrupt works really well against that build.

It is toxic, it doesnt encourages skillful play but one button spamit teaches new player nothing about pvpbut pushes new players ranking pass their supposed ratingand gets teammed with high skilled player due to low population,everytime i see a flamethrower in my team i know it's either another bot or another braindead whos got carried by this toxic braindead build to be within the rating range to get matched with plat + which is top100 get the moment

i'm sorry if i'm trying to remove this only build that allows you finally be able to touch gold 1

[Kuma.1503]

My attempt to summarize this thread:

"This build does a thing! Nerf it"

"Nah, there are a lot of ways to counter that thing".

"Yeah but that thing is too strong! My build can't do that thing so it shouldn't either!"

"It can't do anything else BUT that thing. That's the trade-off"

"That's toxic design"!

"Not really, you can beat it easily by doing X Y and Z"

"Why are you defending broken noob carry buildz"

"Why are you losing to them"?

"Because they take no skill"

... Actually, this seems to sum up a lot of forum threads.

[choovanski.5462]

@"Kuma.1503" said:My attempt to summarize this thread:

"This build does a thing! Nerf it"

"Nah, there are a lot of ways to counter that thing".

"Yeah but that thing is too strong! My build can't do that thing so it shouldn't either!"

"It can't do anything else BUT that thing. That's the trade-off"

"That's toxic design"!

"Not really, you can beat it easily by doing X Y and Z"

"Why are you defending broken noob carry buildz"

"Why are you losing to them"?

"Because they take no skill"

... Actually, this seems to sum up a lot of forum threads.

it's called peak gw2, and it's why the PvP skill level is always so low

[NotFound.7813]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"wasss.1208" said:And for the EE crowd:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon

Are you saying that engi should lose 1 dodge if they take the explosive trait line?

I will have you know mirage loses 1 doge even without IH :)

I lost pet swap and im not crying that much sir

[Shiyo.3578]

@Azreell.1568 said:This is why this game mode continues to lose players.

A non meta, low tier build and you people want to nerf it.

It doesn't over perform nor does it get a high ranking in any season - yet because its annoying for some to fight they want to destroy it then wonder why we have no build diversity in this game mode.

GG

The game is losing players BECAUSE stuff like flamethrower scrapper exists. Being a completely new player and facing someone with perma stab auto-attacking you down would be beyond frustrating and make me quit PvP if I was brand new tbh.

[Shaogin.2679]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Because the nerf to stab was supposed to be universal, so flamethrower stab application should have been also reduced. Also, having perm stab is in no way healthy for any game mode.

You realise that one of scrapper's trait lines is literally designed around perma stability, don't you?Mass momentum, object in motion, applied force... these traits have way too much synergy with juggernaut for this to not be intended design.

And I don't think that perma stability is really that problematic. It is 1 stack of stability every 3 seconds, you can either corrupt/remove the boon or use 2 cc skills in quick succession. Flamethrower also has the weakness that it is hard countered by a simple boon like retaliation.

Not that I necessarily agree with the idea that flamethrower is a huge problem, but it sure sucks to play a class that has no access to retaliation, boon strip/corrupt and relies heavily on CC setups, huh? Just hit them with 2 CCs within a 3 second window so they can stunbreak and laugh in your face? There's no real way to defend perma-stab even on a joke build like this. It's a bad design for PvP any way you slice it.

So your logic is that there should not be a counter to your class, but it is ok for there to be counters against the flamethrower scrapper? Like.......what? And why are we acting like there aren't 4 necros in every match here. lol. On my necro, seeing perma stability is the greatest thing ever!

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Shaogin.2679 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Because the nerf to stab was supposed to be universal, so flamethrower stab application should have been also reduced. Also, having perm stab is in no way healthy for any game mode.

You realise that one of scrapper's trait lines is literally designed around perma stability, don't you?Mass momentum, object in motion, applied force... these traits have way too much synergy with juggernaut for this to not be intended design.

And I don't think that perma stability is really that problematic. It is 1 stack of stability every 3 seconds, you can either corrupt/remove the boon or use 2 cc skills in quick succession. Flamethrower also has the weakness that it is hard countered by a simple boon like retaliation.

Not that I necessarily agree with the idea that flamethrower is a huge problem, but it sure sucks to play a class that has no access to retaliation, boon strip/corrupt and relies heavily on CC setups, huh? Just hit them with 2 CCs within a 3 second window so they can stunbreak and laugh in your face? There's no real way to defend perma-stab even on a joke build like this. It's a bad design for PvP any way you slice it.

So your logic is that there should not be a counter to your class, but it is ok for there to be counters against the flamethrower scrapper? Like.......what? And why are we acting like there aren't 4 necros in every match here. lol. On my necro, seeing perma stability is the greatest thing ever!

No. My logic is that perma-stab is a stupid idea for PvP. Reading is hard.

[Neeklahs.3064]

flamethrower engi can be used only coz juggernaut, they are been around since long time ago, even before scrappers exist. i think the flamethrower was nerfed a long time ago, it don't deal insane or not even good damage. Also FT is bug as fuck, it cant even hit you if your are slightly up or down on the vertical axis. but yeah, you got 1 stab for 3sec every 3 sec, and about 4-8 perma might.

It's obviously a nigthmare if you play a heavy cc build, but that build exist to counter perma cc builds and being little tanky. dude, Juggernaut literaly meand "unstoppable force" and u want to remove his meaning only cos (probably) u're one of those hard cc kitty, those stunklock and condi cancer need a counther and the counter is the cleanse/bunker jugger, The only thing that FT jugger do is Stand and still or

while AA.

P.S.: the most abusive and unhealthy play istyle are perma cc and condi groups.Hahaha flamethrower goes whoosh

[GAB.9340]

Its not the best build at all, but its strong and promotes braindead gameplay. So yeah nerf it.

[mrindustrial.1853]

"Help i can't perma cc the only beginners friendly engineer build, plz nerf it."

[Leonidrex.5649]

@wevh.2903 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"wasss.1208" said:And for the EE crowd:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon

Are you saying that engi should lose 1 dodge if they take the explosive trait line?

I will have you know mirage loses 1 doge even without IH :)

I lost pet swap and im not crying that much sir

too busy complaining about rev pull, kekW

[felix.2386]

@"mrindustrial.1853" said:

"Help i can't perma cc the only beginners friendly engineer build, plz nerf it."

Yes because wanting to nerf PERMA stab means completely removes all stab from it.

i'm sorry if this is the build that's being carrying you to get gold 1

[Kodama.6453]

@felix.2386 said:

@"mrindustrial.1853" said:

"Help i can't perma cc the only beginners friendly engineer build, plz nerf it."

Yes because wanting to nerf PERMA stab means completely removes all stab from it.

i'm sorry if this is the build that's being carrying you to get gold 1

Perma stab is juggernauts gimmick and should stay.It isn't even that hard to deal with. It is 1 stack of stab every 3 seconds. Chain your CC or remove/corrupt it and problem solved.

[Neeklahs.3064]

Yes because wanting to nerf PERMA stab means completely removes all stab from it.

i'm sorry if this is the build that's being carrying you to get gold 1

FT engi carry you to gold 1 Just like trapper rune ranger, almost all thief and necro builds, nerf them instead. cuz stealth and spam the same skill, necro just go reaper and spam gravedigger, also those two counter engi FT and are easier to play.

[Ghos.1326]

Flamethrower takes a lot more skill than you think. You need to be very particular with your positioning and you need to have a good affinity with your little defensive measures that you have. As others pointed out, the Flamethrower's power damage is weak without very high crit chance/might.Taking Firearms in general already stunts your defensive prowess because the trait line only really has 1 defensive trait in the entire line, and that's Sanguine Array. You only get a 33% chance per attack of causing a bleed on your opponent, and while that may seem like a large number for things like uptime or defensive increases, procc chance that's not that high. And it's really only defensive if you run Alchemy, but lets face it, Alchemy is so strong, it's basically a must have trait line for Engineer. So you're stuck running Alchemy (healing per boon granted, with the build I run no healing power that's 38 HP healed per boon gained). Besides some of the skills on hammer that make you invulnerable to damage (one having small intervals of vulnerability in between leaps) and Alchemy traits (one giving 2-3s of protection every 30s, the other giving you protection for 3s and 3k barrier on an 80s cooldown due to HGH) you have no other defenses that work very well (some barrier from attacking the enemy, but not a lot of protection uptime to help make that barrier gain worthwhile). The build that I run uses this trait path structure:Firearms: 3-3-1Alchemy: 2-2-1Scrapper: 3-3-3

The flamethrower kit, to me, is more of a pure damage dealing kit. It wants a lot of might, crit chance, and quickness in order to dish out the damage fast, which puts it in more of a DPS or Skirmisher role. The stability that Juggernaut grants is only there to ensure that it can successfully dish out the damage that it needs to dish out. Because if it does get CC'd, it's very likely to get hard punished simply for being CC'd. And with lack of stable defensive measures because of high cooldown times, you can get bursted down very fast. This is where the kiting and the positioning knowledge comes into play to mitigate some of that, but then you still fall to assassins (as it should be, dps builds are usually the target for assassins in other MMOs).This kit is in no way broken. It sacrifices a healthy amount of sustain (a LOT of sustain) to gain the benefits of damage. That's how builds should be. The issue is, we've all gotten used to builds that can be superior in everything, and then a little more superior in something else so it fits that role better against other builds that are the same. And that's not healthy at all. if a build is going to be jack of all trades, it should be able to do everything but to a lesser extent.Also, to support my statement further, The flamethrower really only has 1 attack when running power that does damage: the auto. That's literally it. Flame blast, even with 25 stacks of might, only hits for around 2k or so at max, and that's fine because it has a 6s cd. The burn on it only lasts 4 seconds. FT3 is a push back, and only causes more burning if the target is already burning. FT4 has very low damage, and it lays a small strip of fire on the ground that can easily be avoided so it's borderline useless. Burn stacks on that only last for 3-4s. Damage only hits at max I've seen is around 150 or so, and that's with high might. The auto is the only big damaging thing, and that's again if you run high/max crit chance, high might, and quickness. When running a power build, burning is only a means of augmenting the autos.I'd take another look into the kit and try to break it down from a different view point.

[Oakendale.2849]

Threads like these are literally the exact reason we have zero build diversity and so few new players coming in.

A non meta performing build which literally is not a threat to any competitive play or status and people want it nerfed because it "annoys" them.

This community never ceases to amaze me.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@"Azreell.1568" said:Threads like these are literally the exact reason we have zero build diversity and so few new players coming in.

A non meta performing build which literally is not a threat to any competitive play or status and people want it nerfed because it "annoys" them.

This community never ceases to amaze me.

I don't think that's the case, most new player aren't even reading the forums, most come from PVE for rewards and to try it. "Word of mouth/text" gets around more, you got everyone complaining about bots and nothing being done about it, hackers/cheaters, everyone complaining about the state of the game balance, Top end drama and Anet protecting/turning a blind eye on shady practices(wintrading/match manipulation, etc) 400 dollar game mode meme, expected pvp toxicity that's a given. Then there's a simple reason they don't play it because they don't enjoy it.

Edit: Also says a lot about the health of the game mode if Flamethrower engi is being complained about. Never thought I'd see the day. :lulw:

[Supreme.3164]

@Ghos.1326 said:Flamethrower takes a lot more skill than you think. You need to be very particular with your positioning and you need to have a good affinity with your little defensive measures that you have. As others pointed out, the Flamethrower's power damage is weak without very high crit chance/might.Taking Firearms in general already stunts your defensive prowess because the trait line only really has 1 defensive trait in the entire line, and that's Sanguine Array. You only get a 33% chance per attack of causing a bleed on your opponent, and while that may seem like a large number for things like uptime or defensive increases, procc chance that's not that high. And it's really only defensive if you run Alchemy, but lets face it, Alchemy is so strong, it's basically a must have trait line for Engineer. So you're stuck running Alchemy (healing per boon granted, with the build I run no healing power that's 38 HP healed per boon gained). Besides some of the skills on hammer that make you invulnerable to damage (one having small intervals of vulnerability in between leaps) and Alchemy traits (one giving 2-3s of protection every 30s, the other giving you protection for 3s and 3k barrier on an 80s cooldown due to HGH) you have no other defenses that work very well (some barrier from attacking the enemy, but not a lot of protection uptime to help make that barrier gain worthwhile). The build that I run uses this trait path structure:Firearms: 3-3-1Alchemy: 2-2-1Scrapper: 3-3-3

The flamethrower kit, to me, is more of a pure damage dealing kit. It wants a lot of might, crit chance, and quickness in order to dish out the damage fast, which puts it in more of a DPS or Skirmisher role. The stability that Juggernaut grants is only there to ensure that it can successfully dish out the damage that it needs to dish out. Because if it does get CC'd, it's very likely to get hard punished simply for being CC'd. And with lack of stable defensive measures because of high cooldown times, you can get bursted down very fast. This is where the kiting and the positioning knowledge comes into play to mitigate some of that, but then you still fall to assassins (as it should be, dps builds are usually the target for assassins in other MMOs).This kit is in no way broken. It sacrifices a healthy amount of sustain (a LOT of sustain) to gain the benefits of damage. That's how builds should be. The issue is, we've all gotten used to builds that can be superior in everything, and then a little more superior in something else so it fits that role better against other builds that are the same. And that's not healthy at all. if a build is going to be jack of all trades, it should be able to do everything but to a lesser extent.Also, to support my statement further, The flamethrower really only has 1 attack when running power that does damage: the auto. That's literally it. Flame blast, even with 25 stacks of might, only hits for around 2k or so at max, and that's fine because it has a 6s cd. The burn on it only lasts 4 seconds. FT3 is a push back, and only causes more burning if the target is already burning. FT4 has very low damage, and it lays a small strip of fire on the ground that can easily be avoided so it's borderline useless. Burn stacks on that only last for 3-4s. Damage only hits at max I've seen is around 150 or so, and that's with high might. The auto is the only big damaging thing, and that's again if you run high/max crit chance, high might, and quickness. When running a power build, burning is only a means of augmenting the autos.I'd take another look into the kit and try to break it down from a different view point.

I can't believe what I am reading......you play a power spec and expect not to be punished by CC, so why don't give perma stability to everybody so they can deliver their dmg safely too?

[Ghos.1326]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Flamethrower takes a lot more skill than you think. You need to be very particular with your positioning and you need to have a good affinity with your little defensive measures that you have. As others pointed out, the Flamethrower's power damage is weak without very high crit chance/might.Taking Firearms in general already stunts your defensive prowess because the trait line only really has 1 defensive trait in the entire line, and that's Sanguine Array. You only get a 33% chance per attack of causing a bleed on your opponent, and while that may seem like a large number for things like uptime or defensive increases, procc chance that's not that high. And it's really only defensive if you run Alchemy, but lets face it, Alchemy is so strong, it's basically a must have trait line for Engineer. So you're stuck running Alchemy (healing per boon granted, with the build I run no healing power that's 38 HP healed per boon gained). Besides some of the skills on hammer that make you invulnerable to damage (one having small intervals of vulnerability in between leaps) and Alchemy traits (one giving 2-3s of protection every 30s, the other giving you protection for 3s and 3k barrier on an 80s cooldown due to HGH) you have no other defenses that work very well (some barrier from attacking the enemy, but not a lot of protection uptime to help make that barrier gain worthwhile). The build that I run uses this trait path structure:Firearms: 3-3-1Alchemy: 2-2-1Scrapper: 3-3-3

The flamethrower kit, to me, is more of a pure damage dealing kit. It wants a lot of might, crit chance, and quickness in order to dish out the damage fast, which puts it in more of a DPS or Skirmisher role. The stability that Juggernaut grants is only there to ensure that it can successfully dish out the damage that it needs to dish out. Because if it does get CC'd, it's very likely to get hard punished simply for being CC'd. And with lack of stable defensive measures because of high cooldown times, you can get bursted down very fast. This is where the kiting and the positioning knowledge comes into play to mitigate some of that, but then you still fall to assassins (as it should be, dps builds are usually the target for assassins in other MMOs).This kit is in no way broken. It sacrifices a healthy amount of sustain (a LOT of sustain) to gain the benefits of damage. That's how builds should be. The issue is, we've all gotten used to builds that can be superior in everything, and then a little more superior in something else so it fits that role better against other builds that are the same. And that's not healthy at all. if a build is going to be jack of all trades, it should be able to do everything but to a lesser extent.Also, to support my statement further, The flamethrower really only has 1 attack when running power that does damage: the auto. That's literally it. Flame blast, even with 25 stacks of might, only hits for around 2k or so at max, and that's fine because it has a 6s cd. The burn on it only lasts 4 seconds. FT3 is a push back, and only causes more burning if the target is already burning. FT4 has very low damage, and it lays a small strip of fire on the ground that can easily be avoided so it's borderline useless. Burn stacks on that only last for 3-4s. Damage only hits at max I've seen is around 150 or so, and that's with high might. The auto is the only big damaging thing, and that's again if you run high/max crit chance, high might, and quickness. When running a power build, burning is only a means of augmenting the autos.I'd take another look into the kit and try to break it down from a different view point.

I can't believe what I am reading......you play a power spec and expect not to be punished by CC, so why don't give perma stability to everybody so they can deliver their dmg safely too?

Well, if you read it all, you'd see the difference:when running a flamethrower style build, you MUST give up a defensive combination of traits (Alchemy + Inventions) in order to make it perform well, whereas other builds necessarily do not need to do so. And, with flamethrower's lack of stable defensive measures, the stability helps it to deal its damage uninterrupted. There are many factors that you missed.

[Kuma.1503]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@felix.2386 said:

@"mrindustrial.1853" said:

"Help i can't perma cc the only beginners friendly engineer build, plz nerf it."

Yes because wanting to nerf PERMA stab means completely removes all stab from it.

i'm sorry if this is the build that's being carrying you to get gold 1

Perma stab is juggernauts gimmick and should stay.It isn't even that hard to deal with. It is 1 stack of stab every 3 seconds. Chain your CC or remove/corrupt it and problem solved.

When I first got into PvP not too long ago, I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. I had just leveled up my guardian to 80, maxed out firebrand, and I was ready to try out the other game modes Gw2 had to offer.

I hopped into ranked on my heal FB, had no idea what was happening or why I was dying. I was certain I would place bronze... I finally finished my placements.

Gold 1.

I thought for sure it was a fluke, but nope. I even began to climb ever so slowly as I got more comfortable on the class.

Gold 1 isn't really an achievement... It's pretty much the baseline of "At least knows what buttons do and has decent keybinds".

(Edit: Quoted wrong person... Ah well)

[Mindless.9721]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Azreell.1568" said:This is why this game mode continues to lose players.

A non meta, low tier build and you people want to nerf it.

It doesn't over perform nor does it get a high ranking in any season - yet because its annoying for some to fight they want to destroy it then wonder why we have no build diversity in this game mode.

GG

The game is losing players BECAUSE stuff like flamethrower scrapper exists. Being a completely new player and facing someone with perma stab auto-attacking you down would be beyond frustrating and make me quit PvP if I was brand new tbh.

This.Its crazy to me how everything on this forum seems to get justified with "its not a problem for good players".Well how do you get good?By playing ofc.But why would anyone try to get better at a game which isnt fun for them?Most low rank games are filled with builds like these -way easier to play than to play against.In general i would argue that this game has an unhealthy amount on straight up unfun mechanics in pvp (mirage comes to mind).This really isnt motivating at all for anyone interested in PvP , especially when there are a ton of other options.The truth is that most people on here have been playing for years and are extremly disconnected from the average newcomer.

[Ghos.1326]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:Flamethrower takes a lot more skill than you think. You need to be very particular with your positioning and you need to have a good affinity with your little defensive measures that you have. As others pointed out, the Flamethrower's power damage is weak without very high crit chance/might.Taking Firearms in general already stunts your defensive prowess because the trait line only really has 1 defensive trait in the entire line, and that's Sanguine Array. You only get a 33% chance per attack of causing a bleed on your opponent, and while that may seem like a large number for things like uptime or defensive increases, procc chance that's not that high. And it's really only defensive if you run Alchemy, but lets face it, Alchemy is so strong, it's basically a must have trait line for Engineer. So you're stuck running Alchemy (healing per boon granted, with the build I run no healing power that's 38 HP healed per boon gained). Besides some of the skills on hammer that make you invulnerable to damage (one having small intervals of vulnerability in between leaps) and Alchemy traits (one giving 2-3s of protection every 30s, the other giving you protection for 3s and 3k barrier on an 80s cooldown due to HGH) you have no other defenses that work very well (some barrier from attacking the enemy, but not a lot of protection uptime to help make that barrier gain worthwhile). The build that I run uses this trait path structure:Firearms: 3-3-1Alchemy: 2-2-1Scrapper: 3-3-3

The flamethrower kit, to me, is more of a pure damage dealing kit. It wants a lot of might, crit chance, and quickness in order to dish out the damage fast, which puts it in more of a DPS or Skirmisher role. The stability that Juggernaut grants is only there to ensure that it can successfully dish out the damage that it needs to dish out. Because if it does get CC'd, it's very likely to get hard punished simply for being CC'd. And with lack of stable defensive measures because of high cooldown times, you can get bursted down very fast. This is where the kiting and the positioning knowledge comes into play to mitigate some of that, but then you still fall to assassins (as it should be, dps builds are usually the target for assassins in other MMOs).This kit is in no way broken. It sacrifices a healthy amount of sustain (a LOT of sustain) to gain the benefits of damage. That's how builds should be. The issue is, we've all gotten used to builds that can be superior in everything, and then a little more superior in something else so it fits that role better against other builds that are the same. And that's not healthy at all. if a build is going to be jack of all trades, it should be able to do everything but to a lesser extent.Also, to support my statement further, The flamethrower really only has 1 attack when running power that does damage: the auto. That's literally it. Flame blast, even with 25 stacks of might, only hits for around 2k or so at max, and that's fine because it has a 6s cd. The burn on it only lasts 4 seconds. FT3 is a push back, and only causes more burning if the target is already burning. FT4 has very low damage, and it lays a small strip of fire on the ground that can easily be avoided so it's borderline useless. Burn stacks on that only last for 3-4s. Damage only hits at max I've seen is around 150 or so, and that's with high might. The auto is the only big damaging thing, and that's again if you run high/max crit chance, high might, and quickness. When running a power build, burning is only a means of augmenting the autos.I'd take another look into the kit and try to break it down from a different view point.

I can't believe what I am reading......you play a power spec and expect not to be punished by CC, so why don't give perma stability to everybody so they can deliver their dmg safely too?

To also combat your post, I never said that I don't expect to get hard punished by CC. It's why I run Juggernaut. Imagine that.

[gousgou.5438]

@felix.2386 said:

@Azreell.1568 said:This is why this game mode continues to lose players.

A non meta, low tier build and you people want to nerf it.

It doesn't over perform nor does it get a high ranking in any season - yet because its annoying for some to fight they want to destroy it then wonder why we have no build diversity in this game mode.

GG

this game mode keeps losing players because these kind of braindead toxic builds keep existing and not getting dealt with and it's just braindead gameplay that nobody but PvE heroes for dailies find it fun.you are not really making sense sorry

If they are braindead PvE heroes an experienced PvP player should wipe the floor with them. You are obviously not the latter. Maybe play a flamethrower engineer and learn how pitiful it is as a spec, then go back to what you were playing and rejoice.

[felix.2386]

@gousgou.5438 said:

@felix.2386 said:

@Azreell.1568 said:This is why this game mode continues to lose players.

A non meta, low tier build and you people want to nerf it.

It doesn't over perform nor does it get a high ranking in any season - yet because its annoying for some to fight they want to destroy it then wonder why we have no build diversity in this game mode.

GG

this game mode keeps losing players because these kind of braindead toxic builds keep existing and not getting dealt with and it's just braindead gameplay that nobody but PvE heroes for dailies find it fun.you are not really making sense sorry

If they are braindead PvE heroes an experienced PvP player should wipe the floor with them. You are obviously not the latter. Maybe play a flamethrower engineer and learn how pitiful it is as a spec, then go back to what you were playing and rejoice.

stop defending such builds, you don't need it for your dailies

[Ghos.1326]

@Mindless.9721 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Azreell.1568" said:This is why this game mode continues to lose players.

A non meta, low tier build and you people want to nerf it.

It doesn't over perform nor does it get a high ranking in any season - yet because its annoying for some to fight they want to destroy it then wonder why we have no build diversity in this game mode.

GG

The game is losing players BECAUSE stuff like flamethrower scrapper exists. Being a completely new player and facing someone with perma stab auto-attacking you down would be beyond frustrating and make me quit PvP if I was brand new tbh.

This.Its crazy to me how everything on this forum seems to get justified with "its not a problem for good players".Well how do you get good?By playing ofc.But why would anyone try to get better at a game which isnt fun for them?Most low rank games are filled with builds like these -way easier to play than to play against.In general i would argue that this game has an unhealthy amount on straight up unfun mechanics in pvp (mirage comes to mind).This really isnt motivating at all for anyone interested in PvP , especially when there are a ton of other options.The truth is that most people on here have been playing for years and are extremly disconnected from the average newcomer.

I agree with you on this one. It's the laziest "solution" to any argument, and very much not a good source of counter argument.One thing I do agree with, however, is the fact that if you do want to improve, you gotta take the booty beating for a while before you learn to give it. I used to get my rear end handed to me all the time in PvP, and I never understood why. It was frustrating at first, but I didn't give up or stop. And that right there is what separated me from the average player: they give up way too easily.

Was I discouraged? Yes. Did it bite? Yes. Was I angry? Yes. But I knew that eventually, I'd learn. And one day, I'd send it right back at em, twice as hard. And I'm doing that now.

Other players take their first experience as the be-all end-all, and that's not a healthy way to go about things, especially in a video game. People who really want to improve, will improve. They won't give up after the first try.

I also believe that balance is still where it is intended, but the Feb patch put us a lot closer to that intended area of reach than any other balance patch in the last 3-4 years.