Balance Patch: Sand Savant mistake?

[Anchoku.8142]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@misterman.1530 said:So...the Scourge's Sand Savant, as a Grandmaster trait, hits the same number of targets as the smaller, non-traited shades? And has a longer recharge time? Other than the larger area (a whopping 120 radius), can someone explain why you would take this trait at all? Is it simply for the ever so slightly larger area?

I mean, as a Grandmaster trait, it's a pretty sad one. In fact, without it, a Scourge can drop three shades quickly, cover an effectively larger area, and hit 2 targets per shade. It makes no sense at all to take Sand Savant.

Where's the sense in it? Just remove it already or move it down to the Adept trait line.

Scourge's entire design makes no sense. Anet wants it to be a DPS and a healer, but also don't want it to be a DPS and a healer. It's entire design contradicts itself all over the place.

Scourge Fskills should do damage by default, and give no barrier besides F5.

Top row should make all your F skills give barriers to yourself and allies.Middle row should make all your F skills deal a lot of power damage.Bottom row should make all your F skills deal a lot of condi damage.

This would make Scourge an actual elite with options to choose how it wants to be played. It could play a support role, or a power role, but not both at once.

Instead what we have is some weird hybrid that sucks in all game modes besides WvW as a DPS and strike missions as a healer. It's just silly.

Take advantage of your trait system and ACTUALLY create a good class out of scourge ;/

I think Arenanet wanted Scourge to be condi-dps or barrier and heal support. With the right scaling factors, equipment and specialization selection ought to allow players minimal performance in one and maximal performance in the other.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@misterman.1530 said:So...the Scourge's Sand Savant, as a Grandmaster trait, hits the same number of targets as the smaller, non-traited shades? And has a longer recharge time? Other than the larger area (a whopping 120 radius), can someone explain why you would take this trait at all? Is it simply for the ever so slightly larger area?

I mean, as a Grandmaster trait, it's a pretty sad one. In fact, without it, a Scourge can drop three shades quickly, cover an effectively larger area, and hit 2 targets per shade. It makes no sense at all to take Sand Savant.

Where's the sense in it? Just remove it already or move it down to the Adept trait line.

Scourge's entire design makes no sense. Anet wants it to be a DPS and a healer, but also don't want it to be a DPS and a healer. It's entire design contradicts itself all over the place.

Scourge Fskills should do damage by default, and give no barrier besides F5.

Top row should make all your F skills give barriers to yourself and allies.Middle row should make all your F skills deal a lot of power damage.Bottom row should make all your F skills deal a lot of condi damage.

This would make Scourge an actual elite with options to choose how it wants to be played. It could play a support role, or a power role, but not both at once.

Instead what we have is some weird hybrid that sucks in all game modes besides WvW as a DPS and strike missions as a healer. It's just silly.

Take advantage of your trait system and ACTUALLY create a good class out of scourge ;/

I think Arenanet wanted Scourge to be condi-dps

or

barrier and heal support. With the right scaling factors, equipment and specialization selection ought to allow players minimal performance in one and maximal performance in the other.

That's what I said. However right now it gets too much barrier for FREE so its dps gets taxed HARD in pve and pvp due to this.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@misterman.1530 said:So...the Scourge's Sand Savant, as a Grandmaster trait, hits the same number of targets as the smaller, non-traited shades? And has a longer recharge time? Other than the larger area (a whopping 120 radius), can someone explain why you would take this trait at all? Is it simply for the ever so slightly larger area?

I mean, as a Grandmaster trait, it's a pretty sad one. In fact, without it, a Scourge can drop three shades quickly, cover an effectively larger area, and hit 2 targets per shade. It makes no sense at all to take Sand Savant.

Where's the sense in it? Just remove it already or move it down to the Adept trait line.

Scourge's entire design makes no sense. Anet wants it to be a DPS and a healer, but also don't want it to be a DPS and a healer. It's entire design contradicts itself all over the place.

Scourge Fskills should do damage by default, and give no barrier besides F5.

Top row should make all your F skills give barriers to yourself and allies.Middle row should make all your F skills deal a lot of power damage.Bottom row should make all your F skills deal a lot of condi damage.

This would make Scourge an actual elite with options to choose how it wants to be played. It could play a support role, or a power role, but not both at once.

Instead what we have is some weird hybrid that sucks in all game modes besides WvW as a DPS and strike missions as a healer. It's just silly.

Take advantage of your trait system and ACTUALLY create a good class out of scourge ;/

I think Arenanet wanted Scourge to be condi-dps

or

barrier and heal support. With the right scaling factors, equipment and specialization selection ought to allow players minimal performance in one and maximal performance in the other.

That's what I said. However right now it gets too much barrier for FREE so its dps gets taxed HARD in pve and pvp due to this.

I agree the scaling is not strong enough. Perhaps the traits should rob one attribute to buff another like stealing group barrier from Sand Cascade to deal torment damage to enemies.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"misterman.1530" said:So...the Scourge's Sand Savant, as a Grandmaster trait, hits the same number of targets as the smaller, non-traited shades? And has a longer recharge time? Other than the larger area (a whopping 120 radius), can someone explain why you would take this trait at all? Is it simply for the ever so slightly larger area?

I mean, as a Grandmaster trait, it's a pretty sad one. In fact, without it, a Scourge can drop three shades quickly, cover an effectively larger area, and hit 2 targets per shade. It makes no sense at all to take Sand Savant.

Where's the sense in it? Just remove it already or move it down to the Adept trait line.

Scourge's entire design makes no sense. Anet wants it to be a DPS and a healer, but also don't want it to be a DPS and a healer. It's entire design contradicts itself all over the place.

Scourge Fskills should do damage by default, and give no barrier besides F5.

Top row should make all your F skills give barriers to yourself and allies.Middle row should make all your F skills deal a lot of power damage.Bottom row should make all your F skills deal a lot of condi damage.

This would make Scourge an actual elite with options to choose how it wants to be played. It could play a support role, or a power role, but not both at once.

Instead what we have is some weird hybrid that sucks in all game modes besides WvW as a DPS and strike missions as a healer. It's just silly.

Take advantage of your trait system and ACTUALLY create a good class out of scourge ;/

I think Arenanet wanted Scourge to be condi-dps

or

barrier and heal support. With the right scaling factors, equipment and specialization selection ought to allow players minimal performance in one and maximal performance in the other.

That's what I said. However right now it gets too much barrier for FREE so its dps gets taxed HARD in pve and pvp due to this.

I agree the scaling is not strong enough. Perhaps the traits should rob one attribute to buff another like stealing group barrier from Sand Cascade to deal torment damage to enemies.You mean offensively or character stat wise?That's basically what I want(char stat wise), where if you trait into DPS your barriers get weaker. Right now it's too easy to have both barrier AND damage so what ended up happening is Anet taxed the hell out of scourge to the point where it can't do either.

Really, scourge should be able to trait to do one or the other, and traits EASILY allow this, but Anet just hasn't done it and I don't get why.

They also did this to tempest, tbh. it's traits barely do ANYTHING for healing or damage and is just base into the class, so they had to tax it's healing and damage since being both at once is overpowered. Not sure why Anet can't make traits for healers where you pick "I want to be a healer" and "I want to be a dps" and the base spec isn't bloated with everything so they have to tax both aspects meaning it sucks at both.

Scourge and tempest both suffer from this design "decision".

[Galmac.4680]

At least next year we will probably get the next elite spec to go on. And another mess of balancing. I bet, at first the new necro spec will be fantastic, but then the screaming, mimimi and complains will start and the necro will be nerfed 6 feets under ground as usual.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Galmac.4680 said:At least next year we will probably get the next elite spec to go on. And another mess of balancing. I bet, at first the new necro spec will be fantastic, but then the screaming, mimimi and complains will start and the necro will be nerfed 6 feets under ground as usual.

Objectively the necromancer is not in a bad state right now, it's far from being 6 feet under ground. That said it's true that the amount of adjustment given to the necromancer's e-specs can be a bit overwhelming. Personally I hope for an e-spec whose gameplay is uterly crap for sPvP/WvW in order to be spared from the poor balancing process (a low mobility summoner would be perfect: summon short lived weakasses summon with F skills and use command as utilities. And the best is that it fit the necromancer's thematic).

[Lily.1935]

Last I was playing WvW I saw a scourge and instead of feeling threatened or like I needed to be on my toes I thought "oh good, a victim." And I was right.

[misterman.1530]

@"Lily.1935" said:Last I was playing WvW I saw a scourge and instead of feeling threatened or like I needed to be on my toes I thought "oh good, a victim." And I was right.

Yeah. I've seen a few roaming Scourges on BG. They are nice bags to get.

[Lily.1935]

@misterman.1530 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Last I was playing WvW I saw a scourge and instead of feeling threatened or like I needed to be on my toes I thought "oh good, a victim." And I was right.

Yeah. I've seen a few roaming Scourges on BG. They are nice bags to get.

I walked right through a pulsing shade because it does so little damage and it was unlikely to hit me I just didn't care. Scourge is SO weak in WvW the only reason I could see bringing one is for the boon strip and even then, just run core.