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Bast.7253

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I dunno about needing something biological and ruling out elementals - Zhaitan's corruption does influence the sky, land, and water - just like every other dragon corruption. And Primordus, Jormag, Kralkatorrik, and the DSD are all capable of making minions out of elements. I imagine Mordremoth is too, but it never had much chance to do more than corrupting local plantlife into mordrem (its primary method of corrupting) as far as we are aware.

@"Tyson.5160" said:A live plant reacts much like an undead plant, neither are really animated.

I would disagree here, on the basis that mobile plants aren't an abnormality in the world, and based on lore, mobile plants are a thing due to abundance of magical energy. As such, dragon corruption of plants should result in mobile plants, regardless of magical domain.

Plus, there were bound to be treants nearby where Zhaitan's risen have moved, and even if "undead plants act the same as live plants", well, those live plants are certainly mobile and interactive.

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Can Zhaitan's corruption bind the soul to the minion. I believe so. At least the most powerful minions has souls/ghosts like King Reza bound to them (why was Reza's ghost still around after 100 years and not passing into the mists I don't really know). There is dialogue indicating Kralkatorric's brand does so, and Jormag can torment a soul even after separation from the body. Maybe Jormag can even corrupt a ghost/soul that died a while ago. For example Jormag seems to be trying to take/torment souls from kodan shrines for the dead.

Perhaps Zhaitan only creates minions for which it can also take/use the soul or take memories from and there where plenty of bodies with ghosts around to not really care about creating elemental like minions from plant matter. The sylvari pact soldiers in the Zhaitain campaign couldn't betray military tactics and secrets in death, and that is probably more important than a few more bodies in the horde of undead. (Against Mordremoth sylvari couldn't be trusted with such information when alive).So the choice to not corrupt sylvari bodies or create elementals might have been quite simple, it didn't consider such things worth it. There are plenty more useful things to take.

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@PseudoNewb.5468 said:Can Zhaitan's corruption bind the soul to the minion. I believe so. At least the most powerful minions has souls/ghosts like King Reza bound to them (why was Reza's ghost still around after 100 years and not passing into the mists I don't really know). There is dialogue indicating Kralkatorric's brand does so, and Jormag can torment a soul even after separation from the body. Maybe Jormag can even corrupt a ghost/soul that died a while ago. For example Jormag seems to be trying to take/torment souls from kodan shrines for the dead.

Perhaps Zhaitan only creates minions for which it can also take/use the soul or take memories from and there where plenty of bodies with ghosts around to not really care about creating elemental like minions from plant matter. The sylvari pact soldiers in the Zhaitain campaign couldn't betray military tactics and secrets in death, and that is probably more important than a few more bodies in the horde of undead. (Against Mordremoth sylvari couldn't be trusted with such information when alive).So the choice to not corrupt sylvari bodies or create elementals might have been quite simple, it didn't consider such things worth it. There are plenty more useful things to take.

A corpse of a Sylvari is just so much valuable when you have these large battles. Each battle you raise up more undead. That’s the why the Sylvari were a key tactic to the victory in Orr, they didn’t add to Zhaitan’s number when they died. Which would really be a stupid move on Zhaitan’s part to not corrupt them. Which really points to that Zhaitan couldn’t raise them or he would have and deny the strategy that the Sylvari provided the pact. Which means that Sylvari must have protection from Zhaitan from the Pale Tree even in death.

What’s a little strange though is how Mordremoth was able to corrupt Sylvari when they died, like in the case of Diarmid. You would think the protection from death would carry over like from Zhaitan. Maybe the protection didn’t matter once Mordremoth acquired the death spectrum and just overwrought whatever little protection the Pale Tree provided in her weakened state.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@PseudoNewb.5468 said:Can Zhaitan's corruption bind the soul to the minion. I believe so. At least the most powerful minions has souls/ghosts like King Reza bound to them (why was Reza's ghost still around after 100 years and not passing into the mists I don't really know). There is dialogue indicating Kralkatorric's brand does so, and Jormag can torment a soul even after separation from the body. Maybe Jormag can even corrupt a ghost/soul that died a while ago. For example Jormag seems to be trying to take/torment souls from kodan shrines for the dead.

Perhaps Zhaitan only creates minions for which it can also take/use the soul or take memories from and there where plenty of bodies with ghosts around to not really care about creating elemental like minions from plant matter. The sylvari pact soldiers in the Zhaitain campaign couldn't betray military tactics and secrets in death, and that is probably more important than a few more bodies in the horde of undead. (Against Mordremoth sylvari couldn't be trusted with such information when alive).So the choice to not corrupt sylvari bodies or create elementals might have been quite simple, it didn't consider such things worth it. There are plenty more useful things to take.

A corpse of a Sylvari is just so much valuable when you have these large battles. Each battle you raise up more undead. That’s the why the Sylvari were a key tactic to the victory in Orr, they didn’t add to Zhaitan’s number when they died. Which would really be a stupid move on Zhaitan’s part to not corrupt them. Which really points to that Zhaitan couldn’t raise them or he would have and deny the strategy that the Sylvari provided the pact. Which means that Sylvari must have protection from Zhaitan from the Pale Tree even in death.

What’s a little strange though is how Mordremoth was able to corrupt Sylvari when they died, like in the case of Diarmid. You would think the protection from death would carry over like from Zhaitan. Maybe the protection didn’t matter once Mordremoth acquired the death spectrum and just overwrought whatever little protection the Pale Tree provided in her weakened state.

Didn't Mordy put the pale tree and her protection out of commission for awhile during its attack in season 2?

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@"PseudoNewb.5468" said:Can Zhaitan's corruption bind the soul to the minion. I believe so. At least the most powerful minions has souls/ghosts like King Reza bound to them (why was Reza's ghost still around after 100 years and not passing into the mists I don't really know). There is dialogue indicating Kralkatorric's brand does so, and Jormag can torment a soul even after separation from the body. Maybe Jormag can even corrupt a ghost/soul that died a while ago. For example Jormag seems to be trying to take/torment souls from kodan shrines for the dead.

Perhaps Zhaitan only creates minions for which it can also take/use the soul or take memories from and there where plenty of bodies with ghosts around to not really care about creating elemental like minions from plant matter. The sylvari pact soldiers in the Zhaitain campaign couldn't betray military tactics and secrets in death, and that is probably more important than a few more bodies in the horde of undead. (Against Mordremoth sylvari couldn't be trusted with such information when alive).So the choice to not corrupt sylvari bodies or create elementals might have been quite simple, it didn't consider such things worth it. There are plenty more useful things to take.

Crusader Aliyana indicates that not all risen have bound souls. Similarly, Romke and his entire crew's bodies were made risen, but their ghosts are separate and roaming Orr. So we have two examples of bound souls (King Reza and the Keeper of the Shrine) and about eight unbound souls (Aliyana, Romke, and Romke's crew. Both Reza and the Keeper are intelligent risen commanding other risen, while Aliyana's body as well as Romke's crew, are all Risen Thralls/Brutes - among the most basic, mindless minions.

This suggests that Zhaitan only needs the soul for intelligent minions, and is more than willing to make soulless, mindless minions. Even if Zhaitan always required a soul - sylvari have been confirmed to have souls in PoF, so that's not a reason for them to not be corruptible.

As for Kralkatorrik's brand - it does not corrupt souls, but branding someone does not kill them, so that may result in branded still having souls, simply because they were never killed (Death-Branded may be another story then). Jormag's ability to corrupt souls comes from the Lost Spirits (specifically Ox and Wolverine), so that's not a good example.

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@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@PseudoNewb.5468 said:Can Zhaitan's corruption bind the soul to the minion. I believe so. At least the most powerful minions has souls/ghosts like King Reza bound to them (why was Reza's ghost still around after 100 years and not passing into the mists I don't really know). There is dialogue indicating Kralkatorric's brand does so, and Jormag can torment a soul even after separation from the body. Maybe Jormag can even corrupt a ghost/soul that died a while ago. For example Jormag seems to be trying to take/torment souls from kodan shrines for the dead.

Perhaps Zhaitan only creates minions for which it can also take/use the soul or take memories from and there where plenty of bodies with ghosts around to not really care about creating elemental like minions from plant matter. The sylvari pact soldiers in the Zhaitain campaign couldn't betray military tactics and secrets in death, and that is probably more important than a few more bodies in the horde of undead. (Against Mordremoth sylvari couldn't be trusted with such information when alive).So the choice to not corrupt sylvari bodies or create elementals might have been quite simple, it didn't consider such things worth it. There are plenty more useful things to take.

A corpse of a Sylvari is just so much valuable when you have these large battles. Each battle you raise up more undead. That’s the why the Sylvari were a key tactic to the victory in Orr, they didn’t add to Zhaitan’s number when they died. Which would really be a stupid move on Zhaitan’s part to not corrupt them. Which really points to that Zhaitan couldn’t raise them or he would have and deny the strategy that the Sylvari provided the pact. Which means that Sylvari must have protection from Zhaitan from the Pale Tree even in death.

What’s a little strange though is how Mordremoth was able to corrupt Sylvari when they died, like in the case of Diarmid. You would think the protection from death would carry over like from Zhaitan. Maybe the protection didn’t matter once Mordremoth acquired the death spectrum and just overwrought whatever little protection the Pale Tree provided in her weakened state.

Didn't Mordy put the pale tree and her protection out of commission for awhile during its attack in season 2?

Mostly correct - the Shadow of the Dragon's attack during The World Summit weakened the sylvari's protection which allowed him to more easily turn them into the Mordrem Guard. They still had some protection overall, but not as much, which was why those with strong wills could still resist Mordremoth - there was enough protection that Mordremoth couldn't just corrupt them, but there was little enough that he could twist them to serve him, and corrupt certain individuals under certain conditions, like Faolain.

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@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@PseudoNewb.5468 said:Can Zhaitan's corruption bind the soul to the minion. I believe so. At least the most powerful minions has souls/ghosts like King Reza bound to them (why was Reza's ghost still around after 100 years and not passing into the mists I don't really know). There is dialogue indicating Kralkatorric's brand does so, and Jormag can torment a soul even after separation from the body. Maybe Jormag can even corrupt a ghost/soul that died a while ago. For example Jormag seems to be trying to take/torment souls from kodan shrines for the dead.

Perhaps Zhaitan only creates minions for which it can also take/use the soul or take memories from and there where plenty of bodies with ghosts around to not really care about creating elemental like minions from plant matter. The sylvari pact soldiers in the Zhaitain campaign couldn't betray military tactics and secrets in death, and that is probably more important than a few more bodies in the horde of undead. (Against Mordremoth sylvari couldn't be trusted with such information when alive).So the choice to not corrupt sylvari bodies or create elementals might have been quite simple, it didn't consider such things worth it. There are plenty more useful things to take.

A corpse of a Sylvari is just so much valuable when you have these large battles. Each battle you raise up more undead. That’s the why the Sylvari were a key tactic to the victory in Orr, they didn’t add to Zhaitan’s number when they died. Which would really be a stupid move on Zhaitan’s part to not corrupt them. Which really points to that Zhaitan couldn’t raise them or he would have and deny the strategy that the Sylvari provided the pact. Which means that Sylvari must have protection from Zhaitan from the Pale Tree even in death.

What’s a little strange though is how Mordremoth was able to corrupt Sylvari when they died, like in the case of Diarmid. You would think the protection from death would carry over like from Zhaitan. Maybe the protection didn’t matter once Mordremoth acquired the death spectrum and just overwrought whatever little protection the Pale Tree provided in her weakened state.

Didn't Mordy put the pale tree and her protection out of commission for awhile during its attack in season 2?

I would imagine that if a Sylvari alive or dead were thrown into either a blighting tree or blighting pod, you would still get a Mordrem, just like Diarmid. So I guess the Pale Trees protection does not extend to dead Sylvari as Diarmid was clearly deceased as advised by Occam.

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