Optimization 2020

[Obtena.7952]

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Right I already mentioned that ... so the actions that Anet take to correct that need to be considered very carefully. Rushing into demanding upgrade to a new engine at their own cost is absurd and contrived, especially when not everyone is affected in the same manner by the deterioration of performance and there are other solutions to consider.

Yet they consider launching the game to a brand new audience, with this type of horrible performance.

That should tell you something about how likely it will be to sell the idea that we need a new engine on their dime now doesn't it ... Honestly, if you don't think this is an indication of how relevant this engine upgrade is to their business model, then there is no case you can make to justify the upgrade at Anet's cost to begin with. Absolutely NONE.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I do have an idea and you do as well. I posted some of that idea in my post above.

No, that's not an idea, it's an assumption and it's a poor one. You and I have NO idea who they have working on what things and assume that these things are not as important as the thing you want Anet to do. Like ZERO idea. There is no reason to make an assumption like you have; it doesn't make the case for a new engine ANY more compelling.

That isn't true at all. They have a comprehensive list on their official wiki that lists most of their employees and most of their functions. They have at least 22 people are their programming team alone.

Well it is true because nothing you have said tells us what those people are working on except for the vague notion they 'program' ... something.

We don't need something super specific like "John is drawing a new Raptor skin" to have an idea about what the team members are working on, as you claim.

Yes actually, people do need to know that if those people want to claim "John" should be working on engine upgrade vs. what he's ACTUALLY working on. See, that's my point ... because some people think they know better what Anet's staff should be working on than Anet ... even though those people have NO idea what those staff are ACTUALLY working on. That's nonsense.

I mean, if you want, feel free to continue to argue with me over these useless pedantic points. The fact remains that no one knows what these people are working on and how important the things they are working on are compared to what some people think Anet should be working on; in this case, the engine upgrade. For all we know, these 'John's that program the engine" are working around the clock just to keep the game running ... we don't know. Therefore, it's absurd for anyone to sit here and say Anet should divert their "John the engine programmers" to engine upgrade. Just because there is a website that lists a bunch of Anet programmers doesn't mean they are sitting around waiting for players to tell them what to do. That's nonsense.

[videoboy.4162]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Right I already mentioned that ... so the actions that Anet take to correct that need to be considered very carefully. Rushing into demanding upgrade to a new engine at their own cost is absurd and contrived, especially when not everyone is affected in the same manner by the deterioration of performance and there are other solutions to consider.

Yet they consider launching the game to a brand new audience, with this type of horrible performance.

That should tell you something about how likely it will be to sell the idea that we need a new engine on their dime now doesn't it ... Honestly, if you don't think this is an indication of how relevant this engine upgrade is to their business model, then there is no case you can make to justify the upgrade at Anet's cost to begin with. Absolutely NONE.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I do have an idea and you do as well. I posted some of that idea in my post above.

No, that's not an idea, it's an assumption and it's a poor one. You and I have NO idea who they have working on what things and assume that these things are not as important as the thing you want Anet to do. Like ZERO idea. There is no reason to make an assumption like you have; it doesn't make the case for a new engine ANY more compelling.

That isn't true at all. They have a comprehensive list on their official wiki that lists most of their employees and most of their functions. They have at least 22 people are their programming team alone.

Well it is true because nothing you have said tells us what those people are working on except for the vague notion they 'program' ... something.

We don't need something super specific like "John is drawing a new Raptor skin" to have an idea about what the team members are working on, as you claim.

Yes actually, people do need to know that if those people want to claim "John" should be working on engine upgrade vs. what he's ACTUALLY working on. See, that's my point ... because some people think they know better what Anet's staff should be working on than Anet ... even though those people have NO idea what those staff are ACTUALLY working on. That's nonsense.

I mean, if you want, feel free to continue to argue with me over these pedantic points. ... but that's the fact is that no one knows what these people are working on and how important the things they are working on are compared to what they want Anet to be working on; in this case, the engine upgrade. For all we know, these 'John's that program the engine" are working around the clock just to keep the game running ... we don't know. Therefore, it's absurd for anyone to sit here and say Anet should divert their "John the engine programmers" to engine upgrade.

You clearly don't know what pendantic means, considering you're the one being pedantic by insisting on absolutely specific information. There's nothing absurd about expecting an engine programmer to actually work on the engine. It's also not absurd to expect them to optimize and/or upgrade the engine, considering Anet themselves have stated that these things have and ARE being done. Has it even been a month since Anet stated that they had a team investing the very issue that's been consistently brought up in this thread?

[Obtena.7952]

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Right I already mentioned that ... so the actions that Anet take to correct that need to be considered very carefully. Rushing into demanding upgrade to a new engine at their own cost is absurd and contrived, especially when not everyone is affected in the same manner by the deterioration of performance and there are other solutions to consider.

Yet they consider launching the game to a brand new audience, with this type of horrible performance.

That should tell you something about how likely it will be to sell the idea that we need a new engine on their dime now doesn't it ... Honestly, if you don't think this is an indication of how relevant this engine upgrade is to their business model, then there is no case you can make to justify the upgrade at Anet's cost to begin with. Absolutely NONE.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I do have an idea and you do as well. I posted some of that idea in my post above.

No, that's not an idea, it's an assumption and it's a poor one. You and I have NO idea who they have working on what things and assume that these things are not as important as the thing you want Anet to do. Like ZERO idea. There is no reason to make an assumption like you have; it doesn't make the case for a new engine ANY more compelling.

That isn't true at all. They have a comprehensive list on their official wiki that lists most of their employees and most of their functions. They have at least 22 people are their programming team alone.

Well it is true because nothing you have said tells us what those people are working on except for the vague notion they 'program' ... something.

We don't need something super specific like "John is drawing a new Raptor skin" to have an idea about what the team members are working on, as you claim.

Yes actually, people do need to know that if those people want to claim "John" should be working on engine upgrade vs. what he's ACTUALLY working on. See, that's my point ... because some people think they know better what Anet's staff should be working on than Anet ... even though those people have NO idea what those staff are ACTUALLY working on. That's nonsense.

I mean, if you want, feel free to continue to argue with me over these pedantic points. ... but that's the fact is that no one knows what these people are working on and how important the things they are working on are compared to what they want Anet to be working on; in this case, the engine upgrade. For all we know, these 'John's that program the engine" are working around the clock just to keep the game running ... we don't know. Therefore, it's absurd for anyone to sit here and say Anet should divert their "John the engine programmers" to engine upgrade.

You clearly don't know what pendantic means, considering you're the one being pedantic by insisting on absolutely specific information. There's nothing absurd about expecting an engine programmer to actually work on the engine.

No one said it was absurd to expect an engine programmer to work on the engine. If you're just going start going off on this tactic of arguing with me about things I never said, we're going to have a problem.

You don't know what John is working on, so you can't say his priority should be upgrading the engine, period.

[videoboy.4162]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Right I already mentioned that ... so the actions that Anet take to correct that need to be considered very carefully. Rushing into demanding upgrade to a new engine at their own cost is absurd and contrived, especially when not everyone is affected in the same manner by the deterioration of performance and there are other solutions to consider.

Yet they consider launching the game to a brand new audience, with this type of horrible performance.

That should tell you something about how likely it will be to sell the idea that we need a new engine on their dime now doesn't it ... Honestly, if you don't think this is an indication of how relevant this engine upgrade is to their business model, then there is no case you can make to justify the upgrade at Anet's cost to begin with. Absolutely NONE.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I do have an idea and you do as well. I posted some of that idea in my post above.

No, that's not an idea, it's an assumption and it's a poor one. You and I have NO idea who they have working on what things and assume that these things are not as important as the thing you want Anet to do. Like ZERO idea. There is no reason to make an assumption like you have; it doesn't make the case for a new engine ANY more compelling.

That isn't true at all. They have a comprehensive list on their official wiki that lists most of their employees and most of their functions. They have at least 22 people are their programming team alone.

Well it is true because nothing you have said tells us what those people are working on except for the vague notion they 'program' ... something.

We don't need something super specific like "John is drawing a new Raptor skin" to have an idea about what the team members are working on, as you claim.

Yes actually, people do need to know that if those people want to claim "John" should be working on engine upgrade vs. what he's ACTUALLY working on. See, that's my point ... because some people think they know better what Anet's staff should be working on than Anet ... even though those people have NO idea what those staff are ACTUALLY working on. That's nonsense.

I mean, if you want, feel free to continue to argue with me over these pedantic points. ... but that's the fact is that no one knows what these people are working on and how important the things they are working on are compared to what they want Anet to be working on; in this case, the engine upgrade. For all we know, these 'John's that program the engine" are working around the clock just to keep the game running ... we don't know. Therefore, it's absurd for anyone to sit here and say Anet should divert their "John the engine programmers" to engine upgrade.

You clearly don't know what pendantic means, considering you're the one being pedantic by insisting on absolutely specific information. There's nothing absurd about expecting an engine programmer to actually work on the engine.

No one said it was absurd to expect an engine programmer to work on the engine. If you're just going start going off on this tactic of arguing with me about things I never said, we're going to have a problem.

You don't know what John is working on, so you can't say his priority should be upgrading the engine, period.

We already have a problem.

At no point did I say what anyone's priority should be. I did say the making sure the engine was running and maintained properly was their responsibility.

And, again, they've already confirmed they have a team working on discovering what's causing so many performance issues (including ones due to lag), so your position in this thread is moot anyway.

[Obtena.7952]

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Right I already mentioned that ... so the actions that Anet take to correct that need to be considered very carefully. Rushing into demanding upgrade to a new engine at their own cost is absurd and contrived, especially when not everyone is affected in the same manner by the deterioration of performance and there are other solutions to consider.

Yet they consider launching the game to a brand new audience, with this type of horrible performance.

That should tell you something about how likely it will be to sell the idea that we need a new engine on their dime now doesn't it ... Honestly, if you don't think this is an indication of how relevant this engine upgrade is to their business model, then there is no case you can make to justify the upgrade at Anet's cost to begin with. Absolutely NONE.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I do have an idea and you do as well. I posted some of that idea in my post above.

No, that's not an idea, it's an assumption and it's a poor one. You and I have NO idea who they have working on what things and assume that these things are not as important as the thing you want Anet to do. Like ZERO idea. There is no reason to make an assumption like you have; it doesn't make the case for a new engine ANY more compelling.

That isn't true at all. They have a comprehensive list on their official wiki that lists most of their employees and most of their functions. They have at least 22 people are their programming team alone.

Well it is true because nothing you have said tells us what those people are working on except for the vague notion they 'program' ... something.

We don't need something super specific like "John is drawing a new Raptor skin" to have an idea about what the team members are working on, as you claim.

Yes actually, people do need to know that if those people want to claim "John" should be working on engine upgrade vs. what he's ACTUALLY working on. See, that's my point ... because some people think they know better what Anet's staff should be working on than Anet ... even though those people have NO idea what those staff are ACTUALLY working on. That's nonsense.

I mean, if you want, feel free to continue to argue with me over these pedantic points. ... but that's the fact is that no one knows what these people are working on and how important the things they are working on are compared to what they want Anet to be working on; in this case, the engine upgrade. For all we know, these 'John's that program the engine" are working around the clock just to keep the game running ... we don't know. Therefore, it's absurd for anyone to sit here and say Anet should divert their "John the engine programmers" to engine upgrade.

You clearly don't know what pendantic means, considering you're the one being pedantic by insisting on absolutely specific information. There's nothing absurd about expecting an engine programmer to actually work on the engine.

No one said it was absurd to expect an engine programmer to work on the engine. If you're just going start going off on this tactic of arguing with me about things I never said, we're going to have a problem.

You don't know what John is working on, so you can't say his priority should be upgrading the engine, period.

I did say the making sure the engine was running and maintained properly was their responsibility.

And that was never in question to begin with. That goes without saying ... who else would do it?

And, again, they've already confirmed they have a team working on discovering what's causing so many performance issues (including ones due to lag), so your position in this thread is moot anyway.

and again, this thread is about upgrading the engine to DX12, not on 'performance issue discovery' which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with DX12 engine upgrade ... so it seems your ability to follow the thread is more in question than my position in this thread. I don't even think you know what my position actually IS in this thread ... you just want to argue some pedantic point with me that some employee list on Wiki tells us what people are working on.

[videoboy.4162]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Right I already mentioned that ... so the actions that Anet take to correct that need to be considered very carefully. Rushing into demanding upgrade to a new engine at their own cost is absurd and contrived, especially when not everyone is affected in the same manner by the deterioration of performance and there are other solutions to consider.

Yet they consider launching the game to a brand new audience, with this type of horrible performance.

That should tell you something about how likely it will be to sell the idea that we need a new engine on their dime now doesn't it ... Honestly, if you don't think this is an indication of how relevant this engine upgrade is to their business model, then there is no case you can make to justify the upgrade at Anet's cost to begin with. Absolutely NONE.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I do have an idea and you do as well. I posted some of that idea in my post above.

No, that's not an idea, it's an assumption and it's a poor one. You and I have NO idea who they have working on what things and assume that these things are not as important as the thing you want Anet to do. Like ZERO idea. There is no reason to make an assumption like you have; it doesn't make the case for a new engine ANY more compelling.

That isn't true at all. They have a comprehensive list on their official wiki that lists most of their employees and most of their functions. They have at least 22 people are their programming team alone.

Well it is true because nothing you have said tells us what those people are working on except for the vague notion they 'program' ... something.

We don't need something super specific like "John is drawing a new Raptor skin" to have an idea about what the team members are working on, as you claim.

Yes actually, people do need to know that if those people want to claim "John" should be working on engine upgrade vs. what he's ACTUALLY working on. See, that's my point ... because some people think they know better what Anet's staff should be working on than Anet ... even though those people have NO idea what those staff are ACTUALLY working on. That's nonsense.

I mean, if you want, feel free to continue to argue with me over these pedantic points. ... but that's the fact is that no one knows what these people are working on and how important the things they are working on are compared to what they want Anet to be working on; in this case, the engine upgrade. For all we know, these 'John's that program the engine" are working around the clock just to keep the game running ... we don't know. Therefore, it's absurd for anyone to sit here and say Anet should divert their "John the engine programmers" to engine upgrade.

You clearly don't know what pendantic means, considering you're the one being pedantic by insisting on absolutely specific information. There's nothing absurd about expecting an engine programmer to actually work on the engine.

No one said it was absurd to expect an engine programmer to work on the engine. If you're just going start going off on this tactic of arguing with me about things I never said, we're going to have a problem.

You don't know what John is working on, so you can't say his priority should be upgrading the engine, period.

I did say the making sure the engine was running and maintained properly was their responsibility.

And that was never in question to begin with. That goes without saying ... who else would do it?

And, again, they've already confirmed they have a team working on discovering what's causing so many performance issues (including ones due to lag), so your position in this thread is moot anyway.

and again, this thread is about upgrading the engine to DX12, not on 'performance issue discovery' ... so it seems your ability to follow is more in question than my position in this thread.

No dear, the thread is about OPTIMIZING the game. The suggestion to upgrade was merely an example.

Your position of upgrading being a poor business decision was faulty at best, because it's their responsibility. Upgrading is also something they've done multiple times already, just not with Dx12 specifically, so they clearly disagree with your stance about upgrading being a poor decision (except, possibly, in that one certain instance).

Your inability to comprehend what you're reading in this thread has gotten old. Have fun arguing your faulty "points."

[Obtena.7952]

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Right I already mentioned that ... so the actions that Anet take to correct that need to be considered very carefully. Rushing into demanding upgrade to a new engine at their own cost is absurd and contrived, especially when not everyone is affected in the same manner by the deterioration of performance and there are other solutions to consider.

Yet they consider launching the game to a brand new audience, with this type of horrible performance.

That should tell you something about how likely it will be to sell the idea that we need a new engine on their dime now doesn't it ... Honestly, if you don't think this is an indication of how relevant this engine upgrade is to their business model, then there is no case you can make to justify the upgrade at Anet's cost to begin with. Absolutely NONE.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I do have an idea and you do as well. I posted some of that idea in my post above.

No, that's not an idea, it's an assumption and it's a poor one. You and I have NO idea who they have working on what things and assume that these things are not as important as the thing you want Anet to do. Like ZERO idea. There is no reason to make an assumption like you have; it doesn't make the case for a new engine ANY more compelling.

That isn't true at all. They have a comprehensive list on their official wiki that lists most of their employees and most of their functions. They have at least 22 people are their programming team alone.

Well it is true because nothing you have said tells us what those people are working on except for the vague notion they 'program' ... something.

We don't need something super specific like "John is drawing a new Raptor skin" to have an idea about what the team members are working on, as you claim.

Yes actually, people do need to know that if those people want to claim "John" should be working on engine upgrade vs. what he's ACTUALLY working on. See, that's my point ... because some people think they know better what Anet's staff should be working on than Anet ... even though those people have NO idea what those staff are ACTUALLY working on. That's nonsense.

I mean, if you want, feel free to continue to argue with me over these pedantic points. ... but that's the fact is that no one knows what these people are working on and how important the things they are working on are compared to what they want Anet to be working on; in this case, the engine upgrade. For all we know, these 'John's that program the engine" are working around the clock just to keep the game running ... we don't know. Therefore, it's absurd for anyone to sit here and say Anet should divert their "John the engine programmers" to engine upgrade.

You clearly don't know what pendantic means, considering you're the one being pedantic by insisting on absolutely specific information. There's nothing absurd about expecting an engine programmer to actually work on the engine.

No one said it was absurd to expect an engine programmer to work on the engine. If you're just going start going off on this tactic of arguing with me about things I never said, we're going to have a problem.

You don't know what John is working on, so you can't say his priority should be upgrading the engine, period.

I did say the making sure the engine was running and maintained properly was their responsibility.

And that was never in question to begin with. That goes without saying ... who else would do it?

And, again, they've already confirmed they have a team working on discovering what's causing so many performance issues (including ones due to lag), so your position in this thread is moot anyway.

and again, this thread is about upgrading the engine to DX12, not on 'performance issue discovery' ... so it seems your ability to follow is more in question than my position in this thread.

No dear, the thread is about OPTIMIZING the game. The suggestion to upgrade was merely an example.

That was the suggestion I was responding to. I guess that's what happens when you drop half way into a conversation to pick a fight.

Your position of upgrading being a poor business decision was faulty at best, because it's their responsibility.

Nothing faulty about it. There is no correlation between how good the business decision is and if it's Anet's responsibility or not.

[videoboy.4162]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Right I already mentioned that ... so the actions that Anet take to correct that need to be considered very carefully. Rushing into demanding upgrade to a new engine at their own cost is absurd and contrived, especially when not everyone is affected in the same manner by the deterioration of performance and there are other solutions to consider.

Yet they consider launching the game to a brand new audience, with this type of horrible performance.

That should tell you something about how likely it will be to sell the idea that we need a new engine on their dime now doesn't it ... Honestly, if you don't think this is an indication of how relevant this engine upgrade is to their business model, then there is no case you can make to justify the upgrade at Anet's cost to begin with. Absolutely NONE.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I do have an idea and you do as well. I posted some of that idea in my post above.

No, that's not an idea, it's an assumption and it's a poor one. You and I have NO idea who they have working on what things and assume that these things are not as important as the thing you want Anet to do. Like ZERO idea. There is no reason to make an assumption like you have; it doesn't make the case for a new engine ANY more compelling.

That isn't true at all. They have a comprehensive list on their official wiki that lists most of their employees and most of their functions. They have at least 22 people are their programming team alone.

Well it is true because nothing you have said tells us what those people are working on except for the vague notion they 'program' ... something.

We don't need something super specific like "John is drawing a new Raptor skin" to have an idea about what the team members are working on, as you claim.

Yes actually, people do need to know that if those people want to claim "John" should be working on engine upgrade vs. what he's ACTUALLY working on. See, that's my point ... because some people think they know better what Anet's staff should be working on than Anet ... even though those people have NO idea what those staff are ACTUALLY working on. That's nonsense.

I mean, if you want, feel free to continue to argue with me over these pedantic points. ... but that's the fact is that no one knows what these people are working on and how important the things they are working on are compared to what they want Anet to be working on; in this case, the engine upgrade. For all we know, these 'John's that program the engine" are working around the clock just to keep the game running ... we don't know. Therefore, it's absurd for anyone to sit here and say Anet should divert their "John the engine programmers" to engine upgrade.

You clearly don't know what pendantic means, considering you're the one being pedantic by insisting on absolutely specific information. There's nothing absurd about expecting an engine programmer to actually work on the engine.

No one said it was absurd to expect an engine programmer to work on the engine. If you're just going start going off on this tactic of arguing with me about things I never said, we're going to have a problem.

You don't know what John is working on, so you can't say his priority should be upgrading the engine, period.

I did say the making sure the engine was running and maintained properly was their responsibility.

And that was never in question to begin with. That goes without saying ... who else would do it?

And, again, they've already confirmed they have a team working on discovering what's causing so many performance issues (including ones due to lag), so your position in this thread is moot anyway.

and again, this thread is about upgrading the engine to DX12, not on 'performance issue discovery' ... so it seems your ability to follow is more in question than my position in this thread.

No dear, the thread is about OPTIMIZING the game. The suggestion to upgrade was merely an example.

That was the suggestion I was responding to. I guess that's what happens when you drop half way into a conversation to pick a fight.

Your position of upgrading being a poor business decision was faulty at best, because it's their responsibility.

Nothing faulty about it. There is no correlation between how good the business decision is and if it's Anet's responsibility or not.

I read the whole thread.

This is what an Engine Programmer does, BTW.

"Engine programmers develop the game engine from which the game runs. They create new functionality in the engine and rewrite the existing systems to make them as efficient as possible. When a new game is being devised, the engine programmer will figure out how to create the best engine for that particular game."

[Obtena.7952]

@videoboy.4162 said:I read the whole thread.

This is what an Engine Programmer does, BTW.

Sure ... no one is debating what John the Engine Programmer does here or if you read the whole thread. That doesn't change what I said.. Whether this is Anet's responsibility or not has zero to do with whether upgrading the engine is a good business decision or not. Just because there is some 'list' doesn't mean anyone knows what Anet's staff is working on or knows better than Anet what their staff should be working on, EVEN if they are John.

[Ray Koopa.2354]

IMHO by now I personally just stopped caring.Rather invest in a (successor game based on a) battle-tested engine to allow graphics looking like the Steam trailer at "industry standard" FPS and be done with it at the end of the decade.Upgrading the clunky GW1 engine was a silly decision to begin with and at least they made the best out of it even if it's the worst at today's expectations, years after release.Until then lower your character limit, use fan made graphics API proxies to lower your CPU station, waste money on a speedier CPU if you can, or just enjoy the dia show.Good luck though in the next two-hundred threads about this, who knows, maybe they do surprise us out of nowhere.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Obtena.7952" said:Just because there is some 'list' doesn't mean anyone knows what Anet's staff is working on or knows better than Anet what their staff should be working on, EVEN if they are John.

We do know what the engine (Engineering) team is working onhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111982/an-update-on-game-performance-issues

The reality is there's no single sweeping change that can fix latency issues for all players, or even most players. There are a large number of factors and situations that can cause lag, and so members of our Engineering, Infrastructure, Design, QA, and Production teams are working with a group of affected players to help identify underlying causes and find solutions.

So any "optimizations" will have to come after the recent server issues are resolved first.

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Just because there is some 'list' doesn't mean anyone knows what Anet's staff is working on or knows better than Anet what their staff should be working on, EVEN if they are John.

We do know what the engine (Engineering) team is working on

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111982/an-update-on-game-performance-issues

Oh wow ... yeah they are working on 'performance issues' ... how specific and enlightening. If these vague references to what they are doing are the most insight you have to what they are working on to continue claiming they can spare people to work on DX12 ... then you just confirm what I keep saying about how little you know about their work.

I think you have forgotten my point here. You don't know better than Anet what their staff should be working on. So when you claim they should simply spare some people to upgrade to DX12, you have to assume the things those people are doing are not as important as a DX12 upgrade to make that claim. The fact is you don't know what they are working on, so that assumption is nonsense. You simply do not know if they have resources to spare to work on DX12 ... you DON'T.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Just because there is some 'list' doesn't mean anyone knows what Anet's staff is working on or knows better than Anet what their staff should be working on, EVEN if they are John.

We do know what the engine (Engineering) team is working on

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111982/an-update-on-game-performance-issues

Oh wow ... yeah they are working on 'performance issues' ... how specific and enlightening. If these vague references to what they are doing are the most insight you have to what they are working on to continue claiming they can spare people to work on DX12 ... then you just confirm what I keep saying about how little you know about their work.

That's what they are doing at this point in time. A lot of the things that the team had been doing in the past is quite well documented.

I think you have forgotten my point here. You don't know better than Anet what their staff should be working on. So when you claim they should simple spare some people to upgrade to DX12, you have to assume the things those people are doing are not as important as a DX12 upgrade to make that claim. The fact is you don't know what they are working on, so that assumption is nonsense.

Someone shouldn't make suggestion on what Anet's staff should be working on? Why have an open forum on if you won't take into consideration any of the player's suggestions and feedback? Why have they acted on player feedback in the past, they could've just said "we know better what our staff should be working on, so shut up"

That's a terrible way to run a business.

You simply do not know if they have resources to spare to work on DX12 ... you DON'T.

At the moment no they don't, they are busy fixing their server mess. Once that is done though it's up to threads like this one to promote the idea that optimization needs to have a much higher priority than what they will send that team to work on next.

[Obtena.7952]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Just because there is some 'list' doesn't mean anyone knows what Anet's staff is working on or knows better than Anet what their staff should be working on, EVEN if they are John.

We do know what the engine (Engineering) team is working on

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111982/an-update-on-game-performance-issues

Oh wow ... yeah they are working on 'performance issues' ... how specific and enlightening. If these vague references to what they are doing are the most insight you have to what they are working on to continue claiming they can spare people to work on DX12 ... then you just confirm what I keep saying about how little you know about their work.

That's what they are doing at this point in time. A lot of the things that the team had been doing in the past is quite well documented.

OK .. that's not under question here.

You simply do not know if they have resources to spare to work on DX12 ... you DON'T.

At the moment no they don't, they are busy fixing their server mess. Once that is done though it's up to threads like this one to promote the idea that optimization needs to have a much higher priority than what they will send that team to work on next.

OK ... I don't disagree with that ... but that's not the issue here. You are claiming they have staff to spare ... you don't know that because you can't assume DX12 is more important than the work they are doing now. I mean, even in the future ... we have to think Anet has work lined up for these guys. Maybe it's DX12, maybe not ... but anyone that thinks a company is just sitting around on 'spare' staff for whatever work you want to suggest should be easy for them to do ... I dont' think you get how a business works.

Let's be honest DX12 is a big deal no? That's not a weekend game upgrade right? We have to think that it's big enough to get planned out. It's big enough to be on their radar, in some consideration list for a decision with people that have some business background, multiple stakeholders across the organization. That's not just a 'spare' frivolous task. It's not a 'throw a John on it' kind of activity.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Obtena.7952" said:OK ... I don't disagree with that ... but that's not the issue here. You are claiming they ahve staff to spare ... you don't know that.

Once the engineering team is finished fixing the servers they will be free to move on to different projects. Meaning they will be "spare" until they assign them to something else. All I (and threads like this) ask for is that "something else" to be performance optimization and not whatever else is on that gigantic table we all love and hate.

To be more specific:

I'm sure they can't "spare" any resources to do a job similar to the one a simple modder is doing. Not like Anet doesn't already have an engine team (consisting of multiple people if I may add) right? They don't need to hire anyone or "allocate resources", they already have the resources, they are just misusing them

I made a comparison between a modder doing something on his free time, and Anet assigning at least one professional, paid engineer, to do a similar (but better) job with full access to the game's code. That comment was in response to someone claiming Anet doesn't have "resources". If, once the server troubles are fixed, they can't assign a single engineer to work on game performance, then I'd find it really surprising. And I would really question their priorities if that happens.

Or rather, I strongly believe they are already working on it and will have some performance updates (not necessarily DX12) ready for the Steam release. But we'll see in November 2020 if I'm right or not, until then we can only speculate.

Edit: to support my theory of something happening with the Steam release, the system requirements on Steam are higher than on their own webpage.

CPU: Intel® Core 2 Quad 2.4 GHz, Core i3, AMD Athlon 64 X2 or betterGPU: NVIDIA® GeForce® 8800GTS, ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT, Intel Iris 5100 or better (512MB of video RAM and shader model 3.0 or better)

SteamCPU: Intel i3 2.8 GHz / AMD Phenom II x4 2.8 GHzGPU: Nvidia GeForce GTS 250 / AMD Radeon HD 5770 / Intel Iris 600 series

That either means they don't plan to care about supporting lower tier systems (if you have a lower system, don't expect support), or that indeed they are doing something with the game for such a change to be needed.

[kharmin.7683]

@Ray Koopa.2354 said:

Upgrading the clunky GW1 engine was a silly decision to begin with and at least they made the best out of it even if it's the worst at today's expectations, years after release.It might have been the only decision at the time with capital, resources and time.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@Obtena.7952 said:

That's true but unless Anet finds a way to fund this ... why would they bother? What's the return on this investment for them? It's purely a QoL upgrade and who's going to pay for that?

Well certainly me not throwing money is one such loss. I got a job and the game i play atm LoL is getting my money, not just time. It would be GW2 (as i like it better), but since i'm on old rig and can't afford new one just yet, i dare not play GW2 to not fry my lappy. While LoL i can run on a potato and be fine.

[zealex.9410]

Ncsoft, blizzard other devs and publishers feel like it merits the resources to bring their games to newer engines or newer apis. I really dont why thats not the case with gw2, esp since the drawbacks of all these fronts being left to dust has started to show.

[Obtena.7952]

@zealex.9410 said:Ncsoft, blizzard other devs and publishers feel like it merits the resources to bring their games to newer engines or newer apis. I really dont why thats not the case with gw2, esp since the drawbacks of all these fronts being left to dust has started to show.

Those games have different business models, target audience, requirements, etc ... Not saying GW2 couldn't get a new engine ... but the consideration for that is a business one that has nothing to do with what other games have done.

[GROMIT.7829]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha just no, it's so old now it's not going to be "optimized".

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:I did say the making sure the engine was running and maintained properly was their responsibility.

And that was never in question to begin with. That goes without saying ... who else would do it?

But that is the way you are coming across that's it not part of the company's role to maintain their own product. Where as others, myself included, are saying it up to them to provide a maintained product. You are getting stuck on engine change. The game's performance without any client side changes is degrading. That means whatever new has been added under the hood or in their service provider is getting worse not better and that's something for ANet to address. That is the cost to them to have people that address issues like that.

[Obtena.7952]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:I did say the making sure the engine was running and maintained properly was their responsibility.

And that was never in question to begin with. That goes without saying ... who else would do it?

But that is the way you are coming across that's it not part of the company's role to maintain their own product.

Really? OK, I will need a quote that gives you that impression then because AFAIK, nothing I've said would ever indicate Anet ISN'T responsible for updating the engine OR the game for that matter. I mean, it's absurd to actually think that anyone BUT Anet is responsible for that.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:I did say the making sure the engine was running and maintained properly was their responsibility.

And that was never in question to begin with. That goes without saying ... who else would do it?

But that is the way you are coming across that's it not part of the company's role to maintain their own product.

Really? OK, I will need a quote that gives you that impression then because AFAIK, nothing I've said would ever indicate Anet ISN'T responsible for updating the engine OR the game for that matter. I mean, it's absurd to actually think that anyone BUT Anet is responsible for that.

I don't need to quote, go back and read your own posts. You were saying yourself that the cost of maintaining a game was an added expense to players. Even if you don't agree, the word choices you made were leading me to this conclusion which is why i dis-engaged since if you felt that way there was no need to continue to discuss since we were at an impasse. Based on your follow up posts I think it was a mis-understanding on both sides since conversations are two-way and, I think, we agree that its up to ANet to support their own product if they expect people to continue to fund them. My impression from you was that it was up to the player to fund maintenance, which is what we do ever time we buy things from the Gem Store to support the game, and if you thought we should further be taxed for game maintenance than we don't agree. That's a problem with this type of medium, its easy to mis-understand another's point at the time, especially on the internet. I think we both agree we don't want to lose players we already have, but if they continue to make changes that degrade the level of service they provide, they need to address that issue and if it requires resources to do that, that cost is on them. Players have already paid for that, and continue to do so when they buy things form the store.

[Obtena.7952]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@videoboy.4162 said:I did say the making sure the engine was running and maintained properly was their responsibility.

And that was never in question to begin with. That goes without saying ... who else would do it?

But that is the way you are coming across that's it not part of the company's role to maintain their own product.

Really? OK, I will need a quote that gives you that impression then because AFAIK, nothing I've said would ever indicate Anet ISN'T responsible for updating the engine OR the game for that matter. I mean, it's absurd to actually think that anyone BUT Anet is responsible for that.

You were saying yourself that the cost of maintaining a game was an added expense to players.

Right it is, but that doesn't imply Anet isn't responsible for the changes to the game to do that maintenance ... that's absurd to think I was implying Anet wasn't responsible for game updates because I understand players pay for those costs. The cost to maintain the game comes from revenues ... where do those come from? Players. I mean, this isn't even debatable ... SOMEHOW we pay for that maintenance cost. I don't even care what aspect of the game you want to talk about ... people want more something? 'maintenance' or a 'optimization' or even a whole engine upgrade? We pay for that ... ALL of it. If we don't, this game doesn't exist, because it's not a charity, it's a business.

[javier.9786]

Today I couldn't play, passed more time on the ground dying than on my feets playing because every 5 or 10 secs got stuck for 3 to 6 secs.Also I think to my self "This cosmetic is really good, gonna buy it" then I think "should I buy it? I mean, the game is really laggy and those fps drops... yeah, maybe latter when the game run better" so that's it.