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No, HoT should not be further nerfed. It is not meant to be the regular power fantasy.


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@"Tukaram.8256" said:Y'all are talking about HoT being nerfed 'more'. Has it been nerfed some already? Honestly I did not enjoy it and have not gone back to it in a couple years. Pretty much got my glider and left. If it has been nerfed, I may go check it out again.

~Edit~ but my main issue was not the critter difficulty but the horrid map layout. The multi level map, I can do without.

This right here brings up a good point. For a lot of us (myself included), it's not the difficulty of the events that made us dislike the area. It's the map itself, and getting around in it.

If they could provide a better/improved mini-map or something else to help you get from Point A to Point B in a better manner, the maps would become "easier" without making the actual events easier. Best of both worlds, I think. Such an improvement could also be applied going forward, allowing more complex maps without the problems that HoT players faced due to those maps, opening up more complex map options for the devs.

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@Palador.2170 said:

@"Tukaram.8256" said:Y'all are talking about HoT being nerfed 'more'. Has it been nerfed some already? Honestly I did not enjoy it and have not gone back to it in a couple years. Pretty much got my glider and left. If it has been nerfed, I may go check it out again.

~Edit~ but my main issue was not the critter difficulty but the horrid map layout. The multi level map, I can do without.

This right here brings up a good point. For a lot of us (myself included), it's not the difficulty of the events that made us dislike the area. It's the map itself, and getting around in it.

If they could provide a better/improved mini-map or something else to help you get from Point A to Point B in a better manner, the maps would become "easier" without making the actual events easier. Best of both worlds, I think. Such an improvement could also be applied going forward, allowing more complex maps without the problems that HoT players faced due to those maps, opening up more complex map options for the devs.

only Tangled Depths is guilty of being multi-leveled to the point where it's annoying (not at all difficult, since you can just google) when trying to get that last POI since you can't remember if it was under ground or above ground but other than that there isn't any issue with how HoT was laid out.

Auric Basin and Dragon's Stand are pretty "flat" and Verdant Brink is pretty "flat" too just with some bottomless pits of death here and there -- the sky islands on VB isn't much of an issue and is only relevant during night meta or map completion -- and most of VB is made pretty much trivial because of the air-rescue and bond of vigor masteries + skyscale mount

-and-

@"Tukaram.8256" said:Has it been nerfed some already? Honestly I did not enjoy it and have not gone back to it in a couple years. Pretty much got my glider and left. If it has been nerfed, I may go check it out again.

if the environment is your issue, then sadly, there isn't any fix for it. they most likely wont redesign HoT maps for you and especially not after so many years since HoT launch.

many mmorpgs i've played only nerfed items/monster/objects(interactables)/stats but never environments unless it was game breaking enough and even then it was just minor landscape changes nothing that adds shortcuts or makes traversing the environment easier (if it was ever complicated/hard). most of environmental "nerfs" have been in the form of invisible walls tbh (so people would stop going out of bounds)

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@Palador.2170 said:

@"Tukaram.8256" said:Y'all are talking about HoT being nerfed 'more'. Has it been nerfed some already? Honestly I did not enjoy it and have not gone back to it in a couple years. Pretty much got my glider and left. If it has been nerfed, I may go check it out again.

~Edit~ but my main issue was not the critter difficulty but the horrid map layout. The multi level map, I can do without.

This right here brings up a good point. For a lot of us (myself included), it's not the difficulty of the events that made us dislike the area. It's the map itself, and getting around in it.

If they could provide a better/improved mini-map or something else to help you get from Point A to Point B in a better manner, the maps would become "easier" without making the actual events easier. Best of both worlds, I think. Such an improvement could also be applied going forward, allowing more complex maps without the problems that HoT players faced due to those maps, opening up more complex map options for the devs.

I loved exploring these maps, in particular tangled depths and verdant brink. The maps function adequately, but could certainly improved. However, I think it was the clear intention of the developers that these maps present a true exploration challenge.

For example, the path one takes to get to the vampire broodmother HP in verdant brink. The map shows you pretty clearly where this objective is located. However, because you approach it from the opposite side of the map using a combination of vines, floating islands, updrafts, and bounce mushrooms, there is no intuitive way to determine the route beyond the basic assumption that anything in the canopy may be reached in this way.

It was clearly intended that players discover this path by climbing to the top of a plateau, using a bounce mushroom which seemingly leads nowhere, and asking the question: Is there maybe something more up here than first appears? It was a theme of HoT's design. A true exploration challenge! Put your map down and open your eyes!

I love that aspect of HoT as much as I enjoy the combat. However, many players did find it frustrating and I don't think it would ruin the experience to have a better map.

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We asked for more group content in core, HoT was the dev's listening to the feedback given and giving us what we asked for albeit not in the ways we asked for it. I honestly think it was their attempt at pushing people to use the squad tool in PvE as it had no need to be used prior; World bosses were freaky easy and as such I really don't think most of the game required play at higher levels.

Now HoT still stands out, and Im hoping End of Dragons will offer a richer PvE experience but not in bulk. (Im honestly hoping End of Dragons is our WvW/PvP expansion similarly to how factions was for GW1. Im hoping beyond hope they provide WvW with a new map, bring edge of the mists in as a map and put maps on a rotation where each week the maps shift and change to represent the ever changing nature of the mists. Im hoping for GvG and so on and Im even hoping for playable tengu, likely we won't get any of that and it will be another poopy expansion like PoF but... time will tell.)

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@Blude.6812 said:Ah, sorry you are not getting the content that YOU want. If just fine for what I would consider most players. I am sure that there are many ways you can make content harder for yourself without negatively impacting others. I also wonder what insight into the devs mind you have to proclaim what hot is 'supposed' to be. Drizzlewood might be more to your liking, (not mine btw).

It's not about what HE likes, the HoT content was originally harder and was nerfed. So, forcefully being made easier negatively impacts OUR experience as well.

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I agree with some, but not with others.

Hero points are okay the way they are.No issues in navigation except TD. For me it is okay, but I know how incredibly frustrating it is for a new player going through it.No issues moderm units.No issues with Itzal, though I do not see why an evade does significant damage. Fighting one is easy. Fighting 2 while fighting other mobs exposed how poorly designed the concept is.Chack damage when you attack them is bad design.

Btw, there are mobs in PoF that are stronger than anything HoT has, like all three Djins mobs. The charging forged. Also, go to the Forged area in crystal oasis. The human forged with ranged CC plus tons of mobs. You have the branded human. Ranged very strong damage. The only difference PoF mainly island content and repeatable dailies, so you can go though while barely fighting any of this stuff.

Also, white mantle. Not a single strong mob, but combined between the mesmers and sorcs they are harder than most mob combination in HoT. Branded in groups can also be a pain to fight.

And no HoT is not hard. Not even remotely. But For some reason it keep getting branded for high difficulty even though there is harder stuff in other places. Though I understand new player frustration trying to get HPs.

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Yeah, I think part of the problem is the core game is too easy now after years of balance creep and scaling adjustments. And I think this is an issue. For anyone who doesn't really suck, combat feels very, very bland and uninteresting all the way from 1-80.

Honestly, I kind of think they should reduce the # of levels to 50 or so, slow down the leveling speed a little, and really tighten up monster stats and AI throughout core. I think it would be a manageable effort and would do the game a lot of good.

I don't actually have a problem with HoT's difficulty. I kind of have a problem with PoF's difficulty because the maps are designed more for casual exploration than they are for coordinated meta efforts. So if either expansion needs a nerf, it's PoF.

I also think they really dropped the ball by not spending some time polishing the core experience before rolling out to steam.

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@otto.5684 said:Also, white mantle. Not a single strong mob, but combined between the mesmers and sorcs they are harder than most mob combination in HoT. Branded in groups can also be a pain to fight.

i hate fighting white mantle. not because they're hard but because they're soo annoying... but still, i don't want them nerfed they serve their purpose and makes destroying their order in the season 3 story much much more fulfilling

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@Astyrah.4015 said:

@otto.5684 said:Also, white mantle. Not a single strong mob, but combined between the mesmers and sorcs they are harder than most mob combination in HoT. Branded in groups can also be a pain to fight.

i hate fighting white mantle. not because they're hard but because they're soo annoying... but still, i don't want them nerfed they serve their purpose and makes destroying their order in the season 3 story much much more fulfilling

Same here. I do not think they should get nerfed. But this highlight that there areas as difficult or more difficult than HoT. Yet people still complain about HoT.

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People just need to get better, no! I'm not saying this as an elite, but someone who is willing to learn from past mistake to improve, dumbing everything down further won't encourage growth.Having trouble beating an enemy? See what you did wrong and learn the enemy attack pattern, for example: smokescale! Either block or double evade and when it use smoke just lure it out!Although i must say, enemies in HoT are easier with range than melee, except for that frog which has been nerfed

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@Ultramex.1506 said:People just need to get better, no! I'm not saying this as an elite, but someone who is willing to learn from past mistake to improve, dumbing everything down further won't encourage growth.Having trouble beating an enemy? See what you did wrong and learn the enemy attack pattern, for example: smokescale! Either block or double evade and when it use smoke just lure it out!Although i must say, enemies in HoT are easier with range than melee, except for that frog which has been nerfed

There is a large segment of the populace (large, not majority..) that likes to be able to stand still in the game in the middle of areas with enemy creatures without dying while they [fill in blank with alt-tab, message friends, check map etc]

People attach a large significant to dying in game. Because of course reasons.

There are complaints about the aggro range in PoF maps....

It truly seems as if people only want to auto attack and not worry about mechanics or focus.

They just want to move on to the next area.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:There are complaints about the aggro range in PoF maps....

When a monster can follow me across a substantial part the map, and somehow gets stuck somewhere in the middle and causes me to permanently stay in combat, even in safe places like Amnoon, then aggro range in PoF is a legit concern.It got better, yet sometimes I still find myself endlessly stuck in combat for no reason.

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@"Strider Pj.2193" said:People attach a large significant to dying in game. Because of course reasons.

i can think of RP as one possible reason maybe? like it breaks character if they die (like say their RP is for "defeated" not to be a thing or like resurrection isn't possible)

or maybe it's the existence of the /deaths command ?

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@Astyrah.4015 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:People attach a large significant to dying in game. Because of course reasons.

i can think of RP as one possible reason maybe? like it breaks character if they die (like say their RP is for "defeated" not to be a thing or like resurrection isn't possible)

or maybe it's the existence of the /deaths command ?

Well, the aggro ranges in PoF are higher than in core, and some PoF mobs have additionally extended leash ranges on top of it. With leash mechanic having problems since the first day of the game, the consequences aren't very surprising.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Ultramex.1506" said:People just need to get better, no! I'm not saying this as an elite, but someone who is willing to learn from past mistake to improve, dumbing everything down further won't encourage growth.Having trouble beating an enemy? See what you did wrong and learn the enemy attack pattern, for example: smokescale! Either block or double evade and when it use smoke just lure it out!Although i must say, enemies in HoT are easier with range than melee, except for that frog which has been nerfed

There is a large segment of the populace (large, not majority..) that likes to be able to stand still in the game in the middle of areas with enemy creatures without dying while they [fill in blank with alt-tab, message friends, check map etc]

People attach a large significant to dying in game. Because of course reasons.

There are complaints about the aggro range in PoF maps....

It truly seems as if people only want to auto attack and not worry about mechanics or focus.

They just want to move on to the next area.

PoF aggro range is a bit of pet peeve of mine. It's not at all about difficulty. It's that you can never get out of combat in PoF. There's always another stupid sand eel or forged sniper 2000 units away that for some reason decided it wants to come after you. I don't want things "easier", but I also don't want to be forced to fight 20 mobs due to chain aggro every time I stop to harvest a node!

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Ultramex.1506" said:People just need to get better, no! I'm not saying this as an elite, but someone who is willing to learn from past mistake to improve, dumbing everything down further won't encourage growth.Having trouble beating an enemy? See what you did wrong and learn the enemy attack pattern, for example: smokescale! Either block or double evade and when it use smoke just lure it out!Although i must say, enemies in HoT are easier with range than melee, except for that frog which has been nerfed

There is a large segment of the populace (large, not majority..) that likes to be able to stand still in the game in the middle of areas with enemy creatures without dying while they [fill in blank with alt-tab, message friends, check map etc]

People attach a large significant to dying in game. Because of course reasons.

There are complaints about the aggro range in PoF maps....

It truly seems as if people only want to auto attack and not worry about mechanics or focus.

They just want to move on to the next area.

PoF aggro range is a bit of pet peeve of mine. It's not at all about difficulty. It's that you can never get out of combat in PoF. There's always another stupid sand eel or forged sniper 2000 units away that for some reason decided it wants to come after you. I don't want things "easier", but I also don't want to be forced to fight 20 mobs due to chain aggro every time I stop to harvest a node!

I mean I get it. But being an old school RPG player I am conditioned to go to a town or outpost if I want a break..

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Ultramex.1506" said:People just need to get better, no! I'm not saying this as an elite, but someone who is willing to learn from past mistake to improve, dumbing everything down further won't encourage growth.Having trouble beating an enemy? See what you did wrong and learn the enemy attack pattern, for example: smokescale! Either block or double evade and when it use smoke just lure it out!Although i must say, enemies in HoT are easier with range than melee, except for that frog which has been nerfed

There is a large segment of the populace (large, not majority..) that likes to be able to stand still in the game in the middle of areas with enemy creatures without dying while they [fill in blank with alt-tab, message friends, check map etc]

People attach a large significant to dying in game. Because of course reasons.

There are complaints about the aggro range in PoF maps....

It truly seems as if people only want to auto attack and not worry about mechanics or focus.

They just want to move on to the next area.

PoF aggro range is a bit of pet peeve of mine. It's not at all about difficulty. It's that you can never get out of combat in PoF. There's always another stupid sand eel or forged sniper 2000 units away that for some reason decided it wants to come after you. I don't want things "easier", but I also don't want to be forced to fight 20 mobs due to chain aggro every time I stop to harvest a node!

I mean I get it. But being an old school RPG player I am conditioned to go to a town or outpost if I want a break..

Even as an old school RPG player, I never had a constant, continual string of fighting without even a small break. I'm not talking about sorting through the loot and such. Just one fight after another fight after another fight after another fight after..... Not in my RPG experience.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Ultramex.1506" said:People just need to get better, no! I'm not saying this as an elite, but someone who is willing to learn from past mistake to improve, dumbing everything down further won't encourage growth.Having trouble beating an enemy? See what you did wrong and learn the enemy attack pattern, for example: smokescale! Either block or double evade and when it use smoke just lure it out!Although i must say, enemies in HoT are easier with range than melee, except for that frog which has been nerfed

There is a large segment of the populace (large, not majority..) that likes to be able to stand still in the game in the middle of areas with enemy creatures without dying while they [fill in blank with alt-tab, message friends, check map etc]

People attach a large significant to dying in game. Because of course reasons.

There are complaints about the aggro range in PoF maps....

It truly seems as if people only want to auto attack and not worry about mechanics or focus.

They just want to move on to the next area.

PoF aggro range is a bit of pet peeve of mine. It's not at all about difficulty. It's that you can never get out of combat in PoF. There's always another stupid sand eel or forged sniper 2000 units away that for some reason decided it wants to come after you. I don't want things "easier", but I also don't want to be forced to fight 20 mobs due to chain aggro every time I stop to harvest a node!

I mean I get it. But being an old school RPG player I am conditioned to go to a town or outpost if I want a break..

Even as an old school RPG player, I never had a constant, continual string of fighting without even a small break. I'm not talking about sorting through the loot and such. Just one fight after another fight after another fight after another fight after..... Not in my RPG experience.

But do you remember being able to just sit in the map, outside of a town or outpost, and do nothing?

Maybe I just played bad ones lmao..

I am not trying to besmirch people for their thoughts... And maybe it has come across like that, it’s just cities, waypoints, etc are there for breaks...

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