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Reduce Guard's retaliation up time


Eugchriss.2046

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It's all in the title. Being able to deal ~10k+ free damage with a passive boon is too much. And beyond that, since aegis and retaliation are complementary, guard is the only class that shouldn't have access to this boon at all since the have the monopole of aegis.This class retaliation uptime needs to be shaved really hard.

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@DonNee.5128 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Mesmers have aegis

And you can avoid retalion with incredible stow weapons keybind

guards have perm retal? u gonna spam stow weapon all game long?

No they don't. Only a Radiance power build has high retal uptime, and nobody is playing that, and even then it's not 100%. Symbol guard, burn guard, symbolbrand, none of them have high retal uptime. Elixir engi/holo/scrapper builds have higher uptime than guardian does. Is retal overpowered on engi?

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@Ragnar.4257 said:No they don't. Only a Radiance power build has high retal uptime, and nobody is playing that, and even then it's not 100%. Symbol guard, burn guard, symbolbrand, none of them have high retal uptime. Elixir engi/holo/scrapper builds have higher uptime than guardian does. Is retal overpowered on engi?

Retal usually does 10k+ damage on core guard where burning does just a bit more (sage amulet).

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Ragnar.4257" said:No they don't. Only a Radiance power build has high retal uptime, and nobody is playing that, and even then it's not 100%. Symbol guard, burn guard, symbolbrand, none of them have high retal uptime. Elixir engi/holo/scrapper builds have higher uptime than guardian does. Is retal overpowered on engi?

Retal usually does 10k+ damage on core guard where burning does just a bit more (sage amulet).

People don't understand death breakdowns.

Conditions, and retal, are always top of the list, because they never get "reset" by the counter. If retal has done 10k damage to you, then it's a fight that has gone on for a LONG time, and 10k damage over 90 seconds really isn't much.

And you didn't answer the question. If retal is a problem on guardian, with builds that maybe have 30% uptime, why is it not a problem on engi builds with more like 80% uptime?

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@"Ragnar.4257" said:And you didn't answer the question. If retal is a problem on guardian, with builds that maybe have 30% uptime, why is it not a problem on engi builds with more like 80% uptime?

I give you a cookie if you give me a viable 80% retal uptime engi build.

And to answer your question: Viability. Engi for example still has "passive" stuff with 1,75 modifier on it (or heck, even passive stunbreaks with "low" cooldown), but noone complains about them, because noone uses them, since they are part of unviable builds. If the build using these stuff are rare, unviable, or underpowered, barely anyone will notice them even existing.If everyone, and their ancestors plays the said build, people will start to complain about it. Like the current FT scrapper, or core gua.

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@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Mesmers have aegis

And you can avoid retalion with incredible stow weapons keybind

guards have perm retal? u gonna spam stow weapon all game long?

No they don't. Only a Radiance power build has high retal uptime, and nobody is playing that, and even then it's not 100%. Symbol guard, burn guard, symbolbrand, none of them have high retal uptime. Elixir engi/holo/scrapper builds have higher uptime than guardian does. Is retal overpowered on engi?

I think you're not up to date with the current core guard

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@"Ragnar.4257" said:People don't understand death breakdowns.

Conditions, and retal, are always top of the list, because they never get "reset" by the counter. If retal has done 10k damage to you, then it's a fight that has gone on for a LONG time, and 10k damage over 90 seconds really isn't much.

I use arcdps, death breakdown is useless. Retal is usually my 2nd highest damage depending on enemy type. 1st is burning.

And you didn't answer the question. If retal is a problem on guardian, with builds that maybe have 30% uptime, why is it not a problem on engi builds with more like 80% uptime?

How come guard has 20% retal uptime? You have aegis -> retal and confusion -> retal which makes high retal uptime with shield 4, mace 2 etc.

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@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:No they don't. Only a Radiance power build has high retal uptime, and nobody is playing that, and even then it's not 100%. Symbol guard, burn guard, symbolbrand, none of them have high retal uptime. Elixir engi/holo/scrapper builds have higher uptime than guardian does. Is retal overpowered on engi?

Retal usually does 10k+ damage on core guard where burning does just a bit more (sage amulet).

People don't understand death breakdowns.

Conditions, and retal, are always top of the list, because they never get "reset" by the counter. If retal has done 10k damage to you, then it's a fight that has gone on for a LONG time, and 10k damage over 90 seconds really isn't much.

And you didn't answer the question. If retal is a problem on guardian, with builds that maybe have 30% uptime, why is it not a problem on engi builds with more like 80% uptime?

I’d say Ragnar is right on the money. The true offender for insane retal uptime is radiance builds which while it’s possible to play some with insane dmg- they just aren’t really reliable. What ppl are talking about is probably symbol core guard which at best is like 50-60% uptime and that’s taking symbol on heal trait and one of the stun breaks that give retal which not everyone does especially on Eu where it seems like they like having a little bit extra team support builds.On a separate note- sages is pmuch garbage on core guard. To my understanding 1 player, yes 1 player ever used it and in testing it lost every duel even to the supporty menders Eu build that has been seeing play and yet it’s meant for dueling hence - No Symbol Guards Damage is not coming from only “burning and retal “. That damage is only significant in prolonged fights also where probably they tried kiting and attack the core guard either with projectiles and/or condi aoes.

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@"Dantheman.3589" said:I’d say Ragnar is right on the money. The true offender for insane retal uptime is radiance builds which while it’s possible to play some with insane dmg- they just aren’t really reliable. What ppl are talking about is probably symbol core guard which at best is like 50-60% uptime and that’s taking symbol on heal trait and one of the stun breaks that give retal which not everyone does especially on Eu where it seems like they like having a little bit extra team support builds.On a separate note- sages is pmuch garbage on core guard. To my understanding 1 player, yes 1 player ever used it and in testing it lost every duel even to the supporty menders Eu build that has been seeing play and yet it’s meant for dueling hence - No Symbol Guards Damage is not coming from only “burning and retal “. That damage is only significant in prolonged fights also where probably they tried kiting and attack the core guard either with projectiles and/or condi aoes.

https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/guardian

Andreas uses a very similar build

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@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Mesmers have aegis

And you can avoid retalion with incredible stow weapons keybind

guards have perm retal? u gonna spam stow weapon all game long?

No they don't. Only a Radiance power build has high retal uptime, and nobody is playing that, and even then it's not 100%. Symbol guard, burn guard, symbolbrand, none of them have high retal uptime. Elixir engi/holo/scrapper builds have higher uptime than guardian does. Is retal overpowered on engi?

all u need is wrathful spirit on zeal to give perm retal passivelyespecially symbol builds use this

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Ragnar.4257" said:People don't understand death breakdowns.

Conditions, and retal, are always top of the list, because they never get "reset" by the counter. If retal has done 10k damage to you, then it's a fight that has gone on for a LONG time, and 10k damage over 90 seconds really isn't much.

I use arcdps, death breakdown is useless. Retal is usually my 2nd highest damage depending on enemy type. 1st is burning.

And you didn't answer the question. If retal is a problem on guardian, with builds that maybe have 30% uptime, why is it not a problem on engi builds with more like 80% uptime?

How come guard has 20% retal uptime? You have aegis -> retal and confusion -> retal which makes high retal uptime with shield 4, mace 2 etc.

Look, I'm not going to split hairs over whether its 30% or 50%. The point is that it's a LONG way off "perma". And is less than what many other builds can achieve.

Symbol bunker is only getting retal from Wrathful Spirit aegis->retal, which provides 4s of retal. Core guard is maybe putting out roughly 1 aegis every 10 seconds.

If you're using your aegis skills/traits exactly on cooldown, and the enemy is kind enough to proc them immediately, then you can go above 50% uptime, but that's a very idealised scenario. In reality it will be lower.

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@wasss.1208 said:

@"Ragnar.4257" said:And you didn't answer the question. If retal is a problem on guardian, with builds that maybe have 30% uptime, why is it not a problem on engi builds with more like 80% uptime?

I give you a cookie if you give me a
viable
80% retal uptime engi build.

And to answer your question: Viability. Engi for example still has "passive" stuff with 1,75 modifier on it (or heck, even passive stunbreaks with "low" cooldown), but noone complains about them, because noone uses them, since they are part of unviable builds. If the build using these stuff are rare, unviable, or underpowered, barely anyone will notice them even existing.If everyone, and their ancestors plays the said build, people will start to complain about it. Like the current FT scrapper, or core gua.

Equip Elixir B. Done.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:I’d say Ragnar is right on the money. The true offender for insane retal uptime is radiance builds which while it’s possible to play some with insane dmg- they just aren’t really reliable. What ppl are talking about is probably symbol core guard which at best is like 50-60% uptime and that’s taking symbol on heal trait and one of the stun breaks that give retal which not everyone does especially on Eu where it seems like they like having a little bit extra team support builds.On a separate note- sages is pmuch garbage on core guard. To my understanding 1 player, yes 1 player ever used it and in testing it lost every duel even to the supporty menders Eu build that has been seeing play and yet it’s meant for dueling hence - No Symbol Guards Damage is not coming from only “burning and retal “. That damage is only significant in prolonged fights also where probably they tried kiting and attack the core guard either with projectiles and/or condi aoes.

Andreas uses a very similar build

Yes and it’s not viable . Metabattle has had the build that ppl have been using for ages

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:I’d say Ragnar is right on the money. The true offender for insane retal uptime is radiance builds which while it’s possible to play some with insane dmg- they just aren’t really reliable. What ppl are talking about is probably symbol core guard which at best is like 50-60% uptime and that’s taking symbol on heal trait and one of the stun breaks that give retal which not everyone does especially on Eu where it seems like they like having a little bit extra team support builds.On a separate note- sages is pmuch garbage on core guard. To my understanding 1 player, yes 1 player ever used it and in testing it lost every duel even to the supporty menders Eu build that has been seeing play and yet it’s meant for dueling hence - No Symbol Guards Damage is not coming from only “burning and retal “. That damage is only significant in prolonged fights also where probably they tried kiting and attack the core guard either with projectiles and/or condi aoes.

Andreas uses a very similar build

Yes and it’s not viable . Metabattle has had the build that ppl have been using for ages

Metabattle is an unreliable build source and is always a few months behind

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@DonNee.5128 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Mesmers have aegis

And you can avoid retalion with incredible stow weapons keybind

guards have perm retal? u gonna spam stow weapon all game long?

No they don't. Only a Radiance power build has high retal uptime, and nobody is playing that, and even then it's not 100%. Symbol guard, burn guard, symbolbrand, none of them have high retal uptime. Elixir engi/holo/scrapper builds have higher uptime than guardian does. Is retal overpowered on engi?

all u need is wrathful spirit on zeal to give perm retal passivelyespecially symbol builds use this

How do you figure that one? How are you producing an Aegis every 4 seconds? Why don't you link the skills that are doing this. We'll wait.

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@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Mesmers have aegis

And you can avoid retalion with incredible stow weapons keybind

guards have perm retal? u gonna spam stow weapon all game long?

No they don't. Only a Radiance power build has high retal uptime, and nobody is playing that, and even then it's not 100%. Symbol guard, burn guard, symbolbrand, none of them have high retal uptime. Elixir engi/holo/scrapper builds have higher uptime than guardian does. Is retal overpowered on engi?

all u need is wrathful spirit on zeal to give perm retal passivelyespecially symbol builds use this

How do you figure that one? How are you producing an Aegis every 4 seconds? Why don't you link the skills that are doing this. We'll wait.

ye mantra heal and shield or mace and shield, on top of your initial block and active one you can useif u win ez then maybe zeal passive symbol will not proc, but otherwise u will have perm retal until every fight is over

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@DonNee.5128 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:Mesmers have aegis

And you can avoid retalion with incredible stow weapons keybind

guards have perm retal? u gonna spam stow weapon all game long?

No they don't. Only a Radiance power build has high retal uptime, and nobody is playing that, and even then it's not 100%. Symbol guard, burn guard, symbolbrand, none of them have high retal uptime. Elixir engi/holo/scrapper builds have higher uptime than guardian does. Is retal overpowered on engi?

all u need is wrathful spirit on zeal to give perm retal passivelyespecially symbol builds use this

How do you figure that one? How are you producing an Aegis every 4 seconds? Why don't you link the skills that are doing this. We'll wait.

ye mantra heal and shield or mace and shield, on top of your initial block and active one you can useif u win ez then maybe zeal passive symbol will not proc, but otherwise u will have perm retal until every fight is over

Over a 90s period, you can use F3 twice, shield 4 times, mace-3 6 times, for a total of 12 aegis over 90 seconds. That'll give you 48s of retal.

And that is assuming you use those things EXACTLY on cooldown, which you would never do, since you save them for appropriate moments.

Where's the other 42s coming from?

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